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Duck Dynasty (Page 3)
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Posting Junkie
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Dec 26, 2013, 11:27 AM
 
Has this forum been taken over by CGI or something? Getting all kinds of "database" errors lately.
ebuddy
     
subego  (op)
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Dec 26, 2013, 06:06 PM
 
Originally Posted by ebuddy View Post
I'm not sure how I should've regarded your post directed to besson as anything other than; "in addition to what you just said" as loosely directed at my discussion with besson. Recap:

You added government policy and that it's no tiny little issue we're talking about. Who's "we're" in your statement -- you and besson? Otherwise, no one said it was a tiny little issue. If someone is addressing a point I've made and someone else adds to that respondent's statement, how would I not take that as directed to me? Notwithstanding the fact that you didn't correct my misappropriation of a rebuttal at that time, but engaged it.


C'mon, man I've not attacked, kicked, or abused anyone here. I apologized for leaping to conclusions on you, suggested that I don't consider any of the weaknesses you attributed to yourself as being problematic for you, and attempted to lighten the tone of our exchange with a little humor and some introspect. It's only zero effect if you give it zero acknowledgement.

My total bad on that last one.

You may think this is a joke, but I've forgotten that long ago time when you can put "presidential" in front of something and not mean it pejoratively. I thought you were cuffing me, which was inexplicable.

Of course, it was inexplicable because that's not what you were doing.

I assure you I do have a severe issue with misunderstanding things (see above). I fibbed just a touch when I said I don't consider it a virtue. It is in fact fantastic when it comes to editing other people's writing. I'll read a sentence and get every possible interpretation. With my help and a lot of effort, we can forge that sentence into razor sharp clarity. In this context, it is indeed virtuous.

On the Internet? Gawd... It's a nightmare.

So, I can also assure you, anything I "crammed" in there was mistake, and my goal in the discussion was to fix those mistakes.


A few nominally on-topic statements. I've wanted to touch on these all along, and have only been waiting for us to get on a closer page.

I only brought up OCD as a "baggage free" condition which we could use to give a definition to the term "disorder".

My mention of Europeans refers to your statement about the suicidal tendencies of homosexuals in environments where homosexuality is more "accepted". I assumed the environments you had in mind were in Europe.

Neither was intended to put words in your mouth. My (honest) apologies it came off that way. I'm actually interested in your words, even if I disagree.
     
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Dec 27, 2013, 08:18 PM
 
Well now... that was silly. A&E reinstates Phil Robertson.
ebuddy
     
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Dec 28, 2013, 07:40 AM
 
And GLAAD are drama queens - misrepresenting facts and blowing things out of proportion, like usual.

When you go out of your way to be offended, you are an idiot.
     
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Dec 28, 2013, 04:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by ebuddy View Post
Well now... that was silly. A&E reinstates Phil Robertson.
Like I said, they're the real assholes in all this… What did they actually accomplish? The was the most pointless suspension ever.
     
subego  (op)
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Dec 28, 2013, 04:32 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
What did they actually accomplish?

Last month: no thread about A&E show.

Now: thread about A&E show.
     
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Dec 29, 2013, 10:12 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Last month: no thread about A&E show.

Now: thread about A&E show.
Bingo.
Why is there always money for war, but none for education?
     
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Dec 31, 2013, 02:23 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Last month: no thread about A&E show.

Now: thread about A&E show.
I can't figure out if you're an idiot or purposely misunderstanding my point. The suspension has little to do with the thread – it happened after it started.

Second, I keep talking about A&Es logic and you keep responding about their ratings.

Me: This grocery store is terrible
You: They sell a lot of peaches

Hint: I don't give a shit how many peaches they sell.
     
subego  (op)
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Dec 31, 2013, 03:52 PM
 
Are you deliberately misunderstanding my point?

Said point is: there is no such thing as bad publicity.

Far more people are going to watch the show now because A&E kept it in the news by suspending him.

Despite all the claims of the "gay agenda" running things, very few people are surprised at a devout redneck not getting homosexuality. Very few people were going to stop watching because he made the statement. Very few were going to come back because A&E suspended him. Very few are going to leave again because he was unsuspended. Basically, almost no one cares, but we've been having this conversation with "Duck Dynasty" in every paragraph.
     
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Jan 1, 2014, 01:32 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
I can't figure out if you're an idiot or purposely misunderstanding my point. The suspension has little to do with the thread – it happened after it started.

Second, I keep talking about A&Es logic and you keep responding about their ratings.

Me: This grocery store is terrible
You: They sell a lot of peaches

Hint: I don't give a shit how many peaches they sell.
All of it was staged, a publicity stunt, starting with the GQ article. They even got it all done before it could interfere with their shooting schedule, their PR folks are very good.
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
- Thomas Paine
     
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Jan 1, 2014, 08:13 AM
 
Is this where we comment about the 2009 speech where Robertson advocated marrying 16 yr olds? Waiting til they are 20 apparently being foolish.
     
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Jan 1, 2014, 09:57 AM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
Is this where we comment about the 2009 speech where Robertson advocated marrying 16 yr olds? Waiting til they are 20 apparently being foolish.
I guess so or I suspect we could talk about satire in general.

He claims it's a joke and his audience seems to laugh heartily at the notion in the speech. He seems to fashion himself a somewhat humorous character which, it should come as no shock, likely feeds the TV personality he's become since then.
ebuddy
     
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Jan 1, 2014, 07:56 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Are you deliberately misunderstanding my point?
Are you deliberately ignoring mine?

Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
All of it was staged, a publicity stunt, starting with the GQ article. They even got it all done before it could interfere with their shooting schedule, their PR folks are very good.
Oh please. So did they coach the guy on what to say or paid the reporter to elicit the right response? And they've been editing out this controversial stuff from their shows because…?
     
subego  (op)
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Jan 2, 2014, 12:16 AM
 
I can't answer the question any simpler than A&E's logic (reasoning) was to capitalize on the kerfuffle to boost ratings. The longer the kerfuffle lasts, the better the ratings, hence acting to make the kerfuffle last longer (first with the suspension and then more with the reversal) is in their best interests.
( Last edited by subego; Jan 2, 2014 at 02:36 AM. )
     
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Jan 2, 2014, 01:33 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Oh please. So did they coach the guy on what to say or paid the reporter to elicit the right response? And they've been editing out this controversial stuff from their shows because…?
The way I see it, they plainly looked at the GQ interview as an opportunity to "blow things up" and make some publicity. As for the editing, they trim according to their needs at the time, it's show business.
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
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Jan 6, 2014, 08:29 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I can't answer the question any simpler than A&E's logic (reasoning) was to capitalize on the kerfuffle to boost ratings. The longer the kerfuffle lasts, the better the ratings, hence acting to make the kerfuffle last longer (first with the suspension and then more with the reversal) is in their best interests.
..and this continues to ignore that I'm not looking at this from a business perspective. I never have been. I don't care.
     
subego  (op)
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Jan 6, 2014, 08:45 AM
 
If you ask why a business makes a business decision, it's going to have business reasoning behind it... no?
     
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Jan 6, 2014, 09:12 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
If you ask why a business makes a business decision, it's going to have business reasoning behind it... no?
They didn't suspend the guy to get attention – they already had it from the article. Presumably, they suspended him for PR purposes – to satisfy the ire of LGBT groups.

And I seem to be alone in thinking A&E is the worse person in all this.
     
subego  (op)
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Jan 6, 2014, 10:21 AM
 
The problem here is you're trying to apply some form of morals or ethics to people who have none.

Channeling my inner marketer, I can tell you special interest groups are there for you to play like a fiddle. Especially gays.

So, yeah, A&E looks bad, but it's television. No one expects you to look good.
     
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Jan 6, 2014, 10:28 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
The problem here is you're trying to apply some form of morals or ethics to people who have none.
I'm really not – I'm saying that even their trying to keep up appearances seemed poor by pretenders standards.

Originally Posted by subego View Post
Channeling my inner marketer, I can tell you special interest groups are there for you to play like a fiddle. Especially gays.
I don't care what they think either. The comments were nothing more than par for the course.
     
subego  (op)
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Jan 6, 2014, 10:36 AM
 
Do you watch the show?
     
Games Meister
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Jan 6, 2014, 10:37 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Do you watch the show?
WHere are you going with this?
     
subego  (op)
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Jan 6, 2014, 10:39 AM
 
To where A&E doesn't give a **** what you think...
     
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Jan 6, 2014, 10:42 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
To where A&E doesn't give a **** what you think...
This is what's irritated me about the discussion. No one has agreed or disagreed with my points. I've just gotten the hand to the face for having even examined that line of logic.
     
subego  (op)
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Jan 6, 2014, 10:49 AM
 
You're basically saying shit is smelly.

It's a given.
     
subego  (op)
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Jan 6, 2014, 10:52 AM
 
My question to you is why are you giving a ****?
     
subego  (op)
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Jan 6, 2014, 10:54 AM
 
P.S. I'm honestly not trying to irritate you, and apologize for having done so (no snark).
     
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Jan 6, 2014, 11:04 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
You're basically saying shit is smelly.

It's a given.
I'm saying this is some of the smelliest shit I've ever smelled.


Originally Posted by subego View Post
My question to you is why are you giving a ****?
See above.
     
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Jan 6, 2014, 01:46 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
This is what's irritated me about the discussion. No one has agreed or disagreed with my points. I've just gotten the hand to the face for having even examined that line of logic.
It's entirely possible in hindsight, that A&E simply caved to pressure from LGBT advocacy groups and upon realizing that they were essentially alone and their advertisers also weren't willing to stand this ground, eventually caved to the pressures of their audience.

As it turns out (See Chick-fil-A for another example) hyper-sensitivity to a small minority offended by such things pales in comparison to the majority who believe hyper-sensitivity is getting patently absurd overall.
ebuddy
     
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Jan 6, 2014, 02:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by ebuddy View Post
realizing that they were essentially alone and their advertisers also weren't willing to stand this ground,
Well that's the interesting part. Usually in cases like this, the outraged groups would call for a boycott of all affiliated advertisers if they really cared. I'm hoping the lack of such a threat indicates that what was said is neither that shocking nor offensive.


Originally Posted by ebuddy View Post
As it turns out (See Chick-fil-A for another example) hyper-sensitivity to a small minority offended by such things pales in comparison to the majority who believe hyper-sensitivity is getting patently absurd overall.
I feel the same way some celeb apologizes because nude photos of their get hacked and leaked online.
     
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Jan 6, 2014, 03:06 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
..and this continues to ignore that I'm not looking at this from a business perspective. I never have been. I don't care.
All of this has been A&E looking at it from a business perspective. It IS shitty, but it doesn't change their MO. That's why we completely blocked their channel.
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
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Jan 6, 2014, 03:12 PM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
All of this has been A&E looking at it from a business perspective. It IS shitty, but it doesn't change their MO. That's why we completely blocked their channel.
It's like you people aren't reading what I'm writing.
     
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Jan 6, 2014, 04:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
It's like you people aren't reading what I'm writing.
I went back and read the thread, and it's more like we don't agree with what you're writing.
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
- Thomas Paine
     
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Jan 6, 2014, 04:13 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
It's like you people aren't reading what I'm writing.

Nobody ever mentions my legendary sexual prowess.
     
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Jan 6, 2014, 04:42 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
It's like you people aren't reading what I'm writing.
I mean, you're looking to explain the actions of a business without considering the fact that its a business. Perhaps you could clarify what exactly you're after here. Being especially snarky isn't helping anyone understand how explaining the actions of an organization without analyzing the only concrete, verifiable motive for any decision-making rationale off limits to the discussion.
     
subego  (op)
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Jan 6, 2014, 09:07 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
I'm saying this is some of the smelliest shit I've ever smelled.
You're probably not going to like this answer, so kill yourself now.

The people who make most of the successful reality TV shows are bad people. They have no respect for their audience or the people they're exploiting. In fact, they don't have respect for people in general. Sociopaths make great reality TV producers.

In that vein, they don't particularly respect gay people either, however you have two other factors at play. One internal and one external. They're kinda related.

The external factor is Hollywood is filled with a disproportionate amount of homosexuals in positions of power compared to the average. If you don't follow the beat of that drum, you're directly impacting the future of your career.

The internal factor is, despite the practical benefits of being a sociopath, most of the people we're discussing aren't that, they're just miserable people who cope with their misery by being abusive. That's not the exclusive mechanism though, a commonly used method is they fool themselves into thinking they do have respect for people. They must right? They support all these high-minded ideals like equality for homosexuals and an end to racism.

Well, since those ideals aren't based on any form of actual respect, when push comes to shove, said ideals fly out the window.

I'm so used to this it doesn't faze me anymore.



As an aside, these types of people really drag down the Democrats. For every person like you, who would presumably say "wow, black people keep getting the shit end of the stick, maybe they're owed something for that", you have someone going "those poor black people will never go anywhere without my help".

The latter is what is known in the parlance as racist, but again, you'll get "how is that possible? I support all these high minded ideals! You're the racist!"
     
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Jan 7, 2014, 03:17 PM
 
To put this in terms we're both familiar with, the video game equivalent of a reality TV show is a Tetris/Bejeweled-like thing with lots of in-app purchases. Candy Crush, for example.

Candy Crush wasn't a developer going "what would be fun?", it's a developer going "by what we know from a century of psychological testing, what particular balance of reward and punishment will get people to pay for their reward... over and over again?"

Contrast that with Tim Schaefer, who will make a cheap game (compared to what you ultimately pay out for something like Candy Crush), where you get to play a matryoshka doll.

Did he do that to tap into the unexploited matryoshka economy, or because it's a ****ing awesome idea?

Which developer respects their audience?
     
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Jan 7, 2014, 03:45 PM
 
Liberace said, " I cry all the way to the bank" so does A&E
‘Duck Dynasty’ Advertisers — Still Paying Big Bucks Despite Controversy | Variety

A&E reality show commands higher rates than 'NCIS,' other broadcast series
     
subego  (op)
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Jan 7, 2014, 03:51 PM
 
Pretty sure those tears were pearls.
     
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Jan 7, 2014, 03:53 PM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
I went back and read the thread, and it's more like we don't agree with what you're writing.
This is what's driving me nuts – I haven't seen disagreement with my opinions. You guys haven't said my opinions are wrong, just that I'm not looking at it from a business perspective.

Originally Posted by Snow-i View Post
I mean, you're looking to explain the actions of a business without considering the fact that its a business.
Not really. I've already said that in the shallow world of PR this looks pretty flimsy.


Originally Posted by subego View Post
You're probably not going to like this answer, so kill yourself now.

The people who make most of the successful reality TV shows are bad people. They have no respect for their audience or the people they're exploiting. In fact, they don't have respect for people in general. Sociopaths make great reality TV producers.
You're restating things you've already said. At no point have I hinted that I actually expected A&E to cancel the show or actually pull the guy from filming. All I've said stressed is that from the perspective of charades, this is the weakest attempt to pull one off I've ever seen.

Edit: I've said most of this already. I concede. Either my message is being poorly communicated or its falling on deaf ears. I'm done here.
     
subego  (op)
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Jan 7, 2014, 03:59 PM
 
Dammit! Still alive!


Seriously, I wasn't trying to say you thought they'd cancel. I was only trying to expand on why this isn't much of a speed-bump for me, that's all.
     
subego  (op)
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Jan 7, 2014, 05:09 PM
 
Now I want to play Psychonauts again.
     
subego  (op)
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Jan 7, 2014, 05:23 PM
 
With Liberace.

How's that for a "Let's Play"?
     
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Jan 7, 2014, 07:07 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
This is what's driving me nuts – I haven't seen disagreement with my opinions. You guys haven't said my opinions are wrong, just that I'm not looking at it from a business perspective.
I don't think your opinions are wrong, FWIW.

You're restating things you've already said. At no point have I hinted that I actually expected A&E to cancel the show or actually pull the guy from filming. All I've said stressed is that from the perspective of charades, this is the weakest attempt to pull one off I've ever seen.
And our point is that it is successful nonetheless.
Edit: I've said most of this already. I concede. Either my message is being poorly communicated or its falling on deaf ears. I'm done here.
I'm not sure your message is falling on deaf ears so much as difficult to apply to the reality of the situation. I don't think you're incorrect in what you're saying so much as we're having difficulty reconciling your message with the larger implications of what you're saying. As contemporary hip hop/r&b, pop, etc likes to say: Money over everything.
     
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Jan 7, 2014, 09:43 PM
 
@Dakar,

I didn't catch your edit.

Again, I want to apologize. There was zero intent to antagonize on my part.

My lack of intent isn't an excuse for having done so, but I wanted to put that intent out there anyway.
     
 
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