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Obama Threatens Putin
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Clinically Insane
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Feb 28, 2014, 06:22 PM
 
I believe the quote was "there will be costs" if Russia moves on the Ukraine.

Does he mean it?
     
OAW
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Feb 28, 2014, 06:27 PM
 
I'm sure he means it. The question is .... what does "it" mean?

OAW

"It" certainly won't be a full-scale military conflict with Russia. The US hasn't picked a fight with a country its own size since WWII. And it won't over Ukraine. Expect the "costs" to be sanctions, degrading of diplomatic ties, etc.
     
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Feb 28, 2014, 06:40 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Does he mean it?
Yes, definitely.

He;s as sincere as when he said ObamaCare was going to lower cost for most people.

F&#$ing liar.

-t
     
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Mar 1, 2014, 03:53 AM
 
Were his lips moving when he said it? If so, he was lying.



( Last edited by auto_immune; Mar 1, 2014 at 04:12 AM. )
     
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Mar 1, 2014, 08:19 AM
 
He's threatening to write a harsh letter or some such sissy type action. Obama is a bigger wimp than even Carter.
     
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Mar 1, 2014, 10:08 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I believe the quote was "there will be costs" if Russia moves on the Ukraine.

Does he mean it?
What he said was; "The United States will stand with the international community in affirming that there will be costs for any military intervention in Ukraine."

And yes, he means it. He will stand with an ineffectual UN body on Russian military intervention. Russia, China, and the Middle Eastern component of the international community will conclude the US is being hegemonistic and the remainder of the community will snicker into their shirts while remaining silent because they really need our bags of grains and rice to feed their impoverished.
ebuddy
     
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Mar 1, 2014, 10:31 AM
 
Problem is that no matter how much force you're willing to expend, you're not going to push Russia around. If Putin wants to go to war over Crimea, a threat of American force is not going to stop him. This is not Libya or Iraq, where the US has a massive military advantage and every opportunity to project that force. The Ukraine is landlocked except for the Black Sea, where the Russian fleet reigns supreme, so there isn't even a way to get troops in place (other than air power from e.g. Turkey). Economic measures won't do much good either. The US and Russia don't much like each other anyway, and Russia has enough other friends that sanctions won't go far, so I'm not sure what Obama can do. If there is a diplomatic solution to be found, the US might support attempts to reach it, but right now I'm not aware of one that both Russia and Ukraine would accept.

From Russia's perspective, its sphere of influence is shrinking. Its only ally in the middle east is in serious trouble. The EU keeps expanding east and acts as if it doesn't understand that Russia sees this as a threat. An unstable Ukraine is a major problem for Russia - it has a long border with Russia, a good chunk of its population is Russian, and one of Russia's most important naval bases is in Crimea. If forced to flee, the eastern third of Ukraine will flee east.
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Mar 1, 2014, 12:12 PM
 
I'll bet there will be some harsh finger-wagging, Putin might cry.
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
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subego  (op)
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Mar 1, 2014, 03:23 PM
 
What do we gain by making a threat we have no intention of carrying through on? Any cred we get for making the threat gets lost twice when we blink.

I don't see the value in bluffing unless you have advance knowledge Putin is going to cave.
     
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Mar 1, 2014, 06:13 PM
 
Why should the US intervene, and why do some insist on the US president being some badass tough guy?
     
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Mar 1, 2014, 06:23 PM
 
This will go down the same way it did when Russia decided to smack Georgia around a bit during the Bush Administration. The US will denounce it vociferously but at the end if the day it will not do anything militarily to stop it. Let's not forget that Russia still has a few thousand nukes pointed in our direction. Just as we do in theirs. And at the end of the day it's just not that deep to risk getting into that kind of confrontation over Ukraine.

OAW
     
subego  (op)
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Mar 1, 2014, 06:25 PM
 
Because Putin is...

The moderation doesn't like it when I unleash the dark poetry on world leaders. Let's just say he's a really bad guy, and leave it at that.
     
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Mar 1, 2014, 06:57 PM
 
It would be interesting to see the progression/language used with Russia over Ukraine compared to Syria over the civil war.
     
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Mar 1, 2014, 07:40 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Because Putin is...

The moderation doesn't like it when I unleash the dark poetry on world leaders. Let's just say he's a really bad guy, and leave it at that.

So is the government of Sudan. There are a number of "really bad guys" all over the world, is it the US' job to rid the world of really bad people?
     
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Mar 1, 2014, 07:54 PM
 
Russian President Vladimir Putin received permission Saturday from parliament to mobilize the country's military in Ukraine.

Parliament voted unanimously on the request and also recommended that Moscow's ambassador be recalled from Washington over earlier comments made by President Obama.
Anyone notice a difference in the course of conduct between Russia and the United States?

Specifically, which nation's leader asked his government for authorization before acting and who's asked "after" -- or never?
Damn right. Putin is an amateur compared to Obama.

And... Here We Go in [Market-Ticker]

-t
     
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Mar 1, 2014, 08:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
So is the government of Sudan. There are a number of "really bad guys" all over the world, is it the US' job to rid the world of really bad people?
It is because the sissy Obama Admin has powered down our ability to project power that the bad guys all across the globe are doing this. They as a group have hated the US for sticking up for the oppressed for decades and have with their financial influence have watered down our country. We are now stupid, shallow, lazy cowards. We are just another 3rd world country because of the liberals agenda. Look at the history of the liberal infiltration of our country.
     
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Mar 1, 2014, 08:44 PM
 
Originally Posted by BadKosh View Post
It is because the sissy Obama Admin has powered down our ability to project power that the bad guys all across the globe are doing this. They as a group have hated the US for sticking up for the oppressed for decades and have with their financial influence have watered down our country. We are now stupid, shallow, lazy cowards. We are just another 3rd world country because of the liberals agenda. Look at the history of the liberal infiltration of our country.
I really don't get this tough guy attitude. You don't trust the Obama administration, yet you feel comfortable with their use of force? Has this country had a good track record lately with their use of force? Why would you feel comfortable with granting the government this much power? How have you felt about issues such as warrantless wiretapping? A war with Russia will certainly not put an end to NSA actions that some would say infringe upon our civil liberties. Are you comfortable with this too?

If so, I would really like for you to explain this, because it makes absolutely no sense to me.
     
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Mar 1, 2014, 08:56 PM
 
Originally Posted by BadKosh View Post
It is because the sissy Obama Admin has powered down our ability to project power that the bad guys all across the globe are doing this. They as a group have hated the US for sticking up for the oppressed for decades and have with their financial influence have watered down our country. We are now stupid, shallow, lazy cowards. We are just another 3rd world country because of the liberals agenda. Look at the history of the liberal infiltration of our country.
^^^

This here is what you call stupid sh*t. Plain and simple. Apparently right-wing ideology causes some people to lose sight of the fact that Russia is a nuclear power. So our hands are pretty much tied ... REGARDLESS of which political party controls the White House.

OAW
     
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Mar 1, 2014, 10:55 PM
 
OAW, you're just saying that cause you're a sissy too

Seriously, since when do adults call people sissys?
     
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Mar 2, 2014, 07:44 AM
 
I certainly hope we're not arguing whether or not the US would act militarily against Russia for moving on Ukraine as if a veiled threat behind the "international community" or acting militarily against Russia were the only options available to us then or now. Forget the abysmal failure of the "reset" policy as warned against by the evil rich guy, Romney or any of the other opportunities squandered such as encouraging Ukraine into NATO alliance; the US can invoke international law to freeze assets and visas among a host of other sanctions to hit them financially. Immediately. Don't dither again Mr. President. Don't stick your finger in the air for a read on political popularity. Don't blink. Just do.

Our response to the Syrian conflict can best be described as knock-kneed, but weak leadership does not begin and end with foreign policy. A politically embattled, increasingly unpopular US President and continued folly of ideology over pragmatism in policy will always lead to the adventurism of others.
ebuddy
     
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Mar 2, 2014, 08:56 AM
 
Syria is actually an interesting point in all this. Russia is the one nation that has backed Assad throughout this. Since Ukraine officials currently say (privately) that Crimea is lost, is there a deal in all this that Russia gets Crimea increased autonomy, effectively a satellite, in return for not blocking action in Syria?
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Mar 2, 2014, 10:04 AM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
I really don't get this tough guy attitude. You don't trust the Obama administration, yet you feel comfortable with their use of force? Has this country had a good track record lately with their use of force? Why would you feel comfortable with granting the government this much power? How have you felt about issues such as warrantless wiretapping? A war with Russia will certainly not put an end to NSA actions that some would say infringe upon our civil liberties. Are you comfortable with this too?

If so, I would really like for you to explain this, because it makes absolutely no sense to me.
I don't trust Owebama because he has screwed up all our foreign policy, weakened our military and taken the coward way out. our country USED TO be able to help those who needed it and the rest of the world WAS afraid we would pound their dictators into the dust so they were less brutal to their citizens. the NSA wiretaps are just another abuse but that is apples and oranges to my original point. if not the US/West who will help those oppressed? Certainly not liberal leaning types who caused so much of this in the first place.
     
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Mar 2, 2014, 01:26 PM
 
I can see from my house!

Palin on Ukraine: I told you so – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs

In 2008, when she was the GOP vice presidential nominee, Palin questioned in a speech whether then-Sen. Barack Obama would have the foreign policy credentials to handle a scenario in which Russian President Vladimir Putin invaded Ukraine.

"After the Russian army invaded the nation of Georgia, Senator Obama's reaction was one of indecision and moral equivalence – the kind of response that would only encourage Russia's Putin to invade Ukraine next," she said in Reno, Nevada on October 21, 2008.
     
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Mar 2, 2014, 06:56 PM
 
Originally Posted by BadKosh View Post
I don't trust Owebama because he has screwed up all our foreign policy, weakened our military and taken the coward way out. our country USED TO be able to help those who needed it and the rest of the world WAS afraid we would pound their dictators into the dust so they were less brutal to their citizens. the NSA wiretaps are just another abuse but that is apples and oranges to my original point. if not the US/West who will help those oppressed? Certainly not liberal leaning types who caused so much of this in the first place.
This doesn't address my questions.
     
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Mar 2, 2014, 07:55 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
So is the government of Sudan. There are a number of "really bad guys" all over the world, is it the US' job to rid the world of really bad people?
Does Sudan border a half dozen plus allies? Does Sudan approach superpower status?

Go fish.
     
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Mar 3, 2014, 01:49 AM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
OAW, you're just saying that cause you're a sissy too

Seriously, since when do adults call people sissys?

Maybe it is toned down to bypass moderation?

(hint: one too many S's, the I has to go, and a P and a U are needed.)
     
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Mar 3, 2014, 03:08 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Does Sudan border a half dozen plus allies? Does Sudan approach superpower status?

Go fish.
Exactly, let's not pretend that any government is some sort of moral Boy Scout, what was more horrific than the genocide of Darfur? The invasion of Tibet was not so boy scouty either, Obama won't even visit with the Dalai Lama as a representative of Tibet or acknowledge their desire for independence.

I think it's time to take a hiatus from trying to be a part time Boy Scout for a while, particularly since lately we've been Boy Scouts that money everywhere.
     
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Mar 3, 2014, 06:27 AM
 
So Obama is aligning himself with China, while cutting our military and mis-handling most all foreign policies. When Putin calls his bluff he's gonna write a harsh letter to the UN or something. Putin can count on Obama to hide and wring his hands because we see this administration way over its head on yet another facet of running things. Other countries were much more careful when we had strong presidents.
     
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Mar 3, 2014, 07:00 AM
 
Originally Posted by BadKosh View Post
So Obama is aligning himself with China, while cutting our military and mis-handling most all foreign policies. When Putin calls his bluff he's gonna write a harsh letter to the UN or something. Putin can count on Obama to hide and wring his hands because we see this administration way over its head on yet another facet of running things. Other countries were much more careful when we had strong presidents.
What would you have Obama do, and why?
     
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Mar 3, 2014, 07:19 AM
 
The UN Security Council isn't going to do anything - Russia has a veto - so I don't understand why it keeps getting brought up. There is also no way to use military force to do much of anything if Russia decides that they really want Crimea - that's what good-old MAD is all about. It is possible to isolate Russia, but that's problematic if it doesn't make Russia blink, because once you have isolated them, it's back to the cold war again.
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Mar 3, 2014, 08:21 AM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
What would you have Obama do, and why?
This president has been so weak that Putin started up the cold war again because he could. Obama, by showing such weakness has sent a message to them that we won't do anything. He let it happen by his weak foreign policy and other non-actions or mis-actions. Its too late to do something now. A more aggressive and forceful posture from the beginning would have helped, not bowing and scraping to all the rest of the worlds leaders.

Lets see Owbama with his skills as a community organizer do something. Can he organize a unified response from many nations, or is any idea he has now going to be laughed at?

The financial world hammered the Russian stock market so much they had to raise interest rates earlier today.
     
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Mar 3, 2014, 08:41 AM
 
Originally Posted by BadKosh View Post
This president has been so weak that Putin started up the cold war again because he could. Obama, by showing such weakness has sent a message to them that we won't do anything. He let it happen by his weak foreign policy and other non-actions or mis-actions. Its too late to do something now. A more aggressive and forceful posture from the beginning would have helped, not bowing and scraping to all the rest of the worlds leaders.

Lets see Owbama with his skills as a community organizer do something. Can he organize a unified response from many nations, or is any idea he has now going to be laughed at?

The financial world hammered the Russian stock market so much they had to raise interest rates earlier today.

So, you are just venting frustration. I see...
     
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Mar 3, 2014, 02:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
So, you are just venting frustration. I see...
Thanks, I missed your passive-agressive postings.

Why don't YOU tell us if you agree with Obama's passive stance, and if NOT, what would YOU think is the appropriate response.

TIA

-t
     
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Mar 3, 2014, 05:37 PM
 
Originally Posted by BadKosh View Post
This president has been so weak that Putin started up the cold war again because he could. Obama, by showing such weakness has sent a message to them that we won't do anything. He let it happen by his weak foreign policy and other non-actions or mis-actions. Its too late to do something now. A more aggressive and forceful posture from the beginning would have helped, not bowing and scraping to all the rest of the worlds leaders.
Again, what does this mean exactly and in which specific circumstance? It's easy to be critical in the abstract because that way one isn't really staking out a position that has to defended. It's a completely different ball of wax to state that "In this particular situation President Obama should have done X instead of Y and here is the reason why."

OAW
     
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Mar 4, 2014, 02:34 AM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
Thanks, I missed your passive-agressive postings.

Why don't YOU tell us if you agree with Obama's passive stance, and if NOT, what would YOU think is the appropriate response.

TIA

-t


He was, in fact, simply venting frustration, and therefore my post wasn't passive aggressive, but observational.

I missed your thirst for conflict, I already offered my opinion on what should be done.
     
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Mar 4, 2014, 07:19 AM
 
I think SOMEBODY has to intervene, the Ukrainians don't really stand a chance against the Russians ( • Chart: Massive Military Imbalance Between Russia and Ukraine | Statista ). The part I don't understand is why it should be Obama personally who is supposed to take all the responsibility. Germany's Merkel is 'concerned' (as usual), same goes for other EU countries. Considering that Ukraine almost became a EU member, shouldn't they (EU-countries) be the ones leading the team now?
     
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Mar 4, 2014, 08:02 AM
 
Originally Posted by raybright View Post
I think SOMEBODY has to intervene, the Ukrainians don't really stand a chance against the Russians ( • Chart: Massive Military Imbalance Between Russia and Ukraine | Statista ). The part I don't understand is why it should be Obama personally who is supposed to take all the responsibility. Germany's Merkel is 'concerned' (as usual), same goes for other EU countries. Considering that Ukraine almost became a EU member, shouldn't they (EU-countries) be the ones leading the team now?
Yes, they should, but the EU is a fractured, ineffectual body with nothing so noteworthy as their disagreement.
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Mar 4, 2014, 08:53 AM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
He was, in fact, simply venting frustration, and therefore my post wasn't passive aggressive, but observational.

I missed your thirst for conflict, I already offered my opinion on what should be done.
A typical trait of liberals is their assumption to know other peoples thoughts. YOU DON'T!

You seem to be reading one thing and assuming something else.
     
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Mar 4, 2014, 10:25 AM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
He was, in fact, simply venting frustration, and therefore my post wasn't passive aggressive, but observational.

I missed your thirst for conflict, I already offered my opinion on what should be done.
Thanks for more passive-aggressive bullsh!t.

-t
     
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Mar 4, 2014, 04:10 PM
 
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
- Thomas Paine
     
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Mar 5, 2014, 06:18 AM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
Thanks for more passive-aggressive bullsh!t.

-t

I think you need some work on your definitions. Add this to your misunderstanding of what "trolling" is.
     
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Mar 5, 2014, 07:04 AM
 
So rich I gotta tell ya. I've not experienced a President with worse foot-in-mouth disorder. As if the 1970's had a better foreign policy.
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Mar 5, 2014, 08:20 AM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
I think you need some work on your definitions. Add this to your misunderstanding of what "trolling" is.
You believe you are ALWAYS RIGHT? Pretty lame assumption.
     
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Mar 5, 2014, 08:36 AM
 
Originally Posted by BadKosh View Post
You believe you are ALWAYS RIGHT? Pretty lame assumption.
I asked you a couple of times to explain your position, you declined. We still don't know what they are, the only comment I made was that you were venting frustration, which was pretty obviously the case, and since you have yet to address my questions, remains the sum of your recent contributions to this thread.
     
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Mar 5, 2014, 09:36 AM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
I asked you a couple of times to explain your position, you declined. We still don't know what they are, the only comment I made was that you were venting frustration, which was pretty obviously the case, and since you have yet to address my questions, remains the sum of your recent contributions to this thread.
I suggest going back and reading my posts again. You may 'read' them but your liberal filter is making it seem to you to be something different. Especially the part where I suggested that had the president had a more forceful demeanor from the beginning and not bowed and scraped to all the worlds leaders that Putin may have had a little more hesitation in his actions. Its too late now. He's learned, like the rest of the worlds leaders that Obama is weak, shallow and a fool/laughingstock.
     
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Mar 5, 2014, 09:38 AM
 
Originally Posted by BadKosh View Post
I suggest going back and reading my posts again. You may 'read' them but your liberal filter is making it seem to you to be something different. Especially the part where I suggested that had the president had a more forceful demeanor from the beginning and not bowed and scraped to all the worlds leaders that Putin may have had a little more hesitation in his actions. Its too late now. He's learned, like the rest of the worlds leaders that Obama is weak, shallow and a fool/laughingstock.

I was asking why it is you want the president to be forceful when you don't trust him.
     
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Mar 5, 2014, 10:16 AM
 
So incidents like the Russian invasions wouldn't happen so easily. Carter was a wimp too, and the Iranians had a field day with the former failure. Obamas actions have many people not trusting him , but the spying isn't just his doing, but his appointees too. His whole admin isn't trusted because of the continual stream of lies. He didn't start that way, except for his bowing to other world leaders.
     
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Mar 5, 2014, 04:06 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
I was asking why it is you want the president to be forceful when you don't trust him.
It's pretty obvious, bess. Perhaps there would be more trust if there was a reason to trust him? Such as, you know, successful foreign policy instead of trying to play each issue with a thumb to the political winds. I can't name a single foreign policy front that isn't already a disaster-in-progress.


What we're asking for is for Obama to suspend his campaigning and actually be the US President for a day or two, making decisions for the benefit of the people - not for the benefit of keeping his party in power and his friends' pockets stuffed.
     
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Mar 5, 2014, 04:40 PM
 
Originally Posted by Snow-i View Post
It's pretty obvious, bess. Perhaps there would be more trust if there was a reason to trust him? Such as, you know, successful foreign policy instead of trying to play each issue with a thumb to the political winds. I can't name a single foreign policy front that isn't already a disaster-in-progress.


What we're asking for is for Obama to suspend his campaigning and actually be the US President for a day or two, making decisions for the benefit of the people - not for the benefit of keeping his party in power and his friends' pockets stuffed.

I don't understand why BadKosh, and apparently you don't understand what I'm asking...

I'm not asking why you don't trust him, you've both made that abundantly clear for a number of years now. I'm asking why you feel comfortable with him being forceful with Russia given that you don't trust him.

Is this clear now?
     
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Mar 5, 2014, 06:43 PM
 
I would suggest BadKosh et al familiarize themselves with the concept of Mutually Assured Destruction (M.A.D.). And then perhaps it might occur to them why it is beyond foolish to think that Putin will be influenced by a "forceful demeanor". Crimea has a majority Russian population. At one point it was literally a part of Russia. It is home to the Black Sea Fleet which just so happens to be Russia's only warm water naval port. This makes it critical to Russia's national interest as it is a key mechanism by which its navy can project power. The bottom line is that the Russian government cares a helluva lot more about controlling Crimea ... directly or indirectly ... than the West cares about bringing Ukraine into the fold. So it doesn't matter that President Obama threw Mubarak in Egypt under the bus, assassinated bin Laden, killed his top lieutenants in Pakistan & Afghanistan with drone strikes, rolled back Taliban advances in Afghanistan, decimated the "middle management" layer of al Qaeda in Yemen, attacked al-Shabab in Somalia, toppled Qaddafi in Libya ... and yes, refrained (prudently IMO) from military conflict with Assad in Syria. Which overall more than qualifies as "forceful" by anyone not suffering from a severe case of Obama Derangement Syndrome (ODS). The point is that it DOES ... NOT ... MATTER ... to a nuclear-armed military power like Russia when it feels it has a vital national security interest at stake. Or even if it doesn't. Because a large scale, nuclear weapons deterrent is the ultimate trump card when it comes to foreign policy.

Funny how no one is making the argument that if Putin had a more "forceful demeanor" Obama wouldn't haven't done all these things.

OAW
     
 
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