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Dianne Feinstein
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Clinically Insane
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Mar 11, 2014, 03:00 PM
 
Dianne Feinstein: CIA May Have Violated Constitution - Business Insider

"Senate Intelligence Committee Chair Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) said during a stunning speech the Senate floor Tuesday morning that the Central Intelligence Agency may have broken the law and violated the Constitution by searching a stand-alone computer network established for Congress."

Rule 8: really? Really?

Well then **** you, mother****er. You have managed to disgust me more than any living American politician.
     
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Mar 11, 2014, 03:06 PM
 
Was anyone in attendance on the floor other than the janitor? Or do they still lock the cameras on the podium?
     
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Mar 11, 2014, 03:24 PM
 
She didn't give a rodent rectum when it was just the regular folks getting spied on. Now this big public spectacle? Bwa-ha-haa.
     
subego  (op)
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Mar 11, 2014, 03:33 PM
 
I expect stupid shit from congress, but this is a level of stupid which isn't even human. It's more like GladOS or something.
     
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Mar 11, 2014, 04:11 PM
 
God-tier hypocrisy?
     
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Mar 11, 2014, 05:12 PM
 
I literally, LITERALLY, sat in my car in quiet wonder at the irony, after hearing the report on the radio; her shrill, angry voice echoing in my mind. There in my parking spot, with the radio turned off and the engine still, my lunch getting cold in the passenger seat, I realized that, as a nation, we truly are fu*ked.
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
- Thomas Paine
     
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Mar 11, 2014, 06:29 PM
 
@BadKosh
So you're not even worried in the slightest about the ramifications? I share your opinion that it's hypocritical to only object to mass surveillance only once it's discovered you're a target, too.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
     
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Mar 11, 2014, 09:02 PM
 
An interesting pickle. The Senate committee had been seeking information on the Bush Administration's handling of terrorists post-9/11. The CIA claimed her staff had access to materials they were not authorized to see so... they went and got it.

IMO, the CIA is concerned not just about what Senate Intelligence knows of post-9/11 terrorist treatment during the Bush years, but well beyond. With regard to the information itself; I don't think there's anything to be exposed at this point that isn't already old news. This is yet another example of Federal overreach, but in terms of congressional oversight on this issue -- they're essentially duking it out with themselves. Full of shit, the whole lot of them.

The ramifications are those which we've already had to accept from the well-documented abuses revealed of recent history. The only real difference here is that it can't be brushed off as another phony scandal or vast right-wing conspiracy.
ebuddy
     
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Mar 11, 2014, 11:11 PM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
I realized that, as a nation, we truly are fu*ked.
This.

-t
     
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Mar 12, 2014, 07:49 AM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
@BadKosh
So you're not even worried in the slightest about the ramifications? I share your opinion that it's hypocritical to only object to mass surveillance only once it's discovered you're a target, too.
No, I think we have many inside the FedGov who shouldn't even be trusted to walk dogs, much less keep our tax records private, keep our phone records NOT AT ALL, and enforce the laws. Until many are put in prison for conspiracy for decades, and all of them get outed including where they live so the average guy can take a shot at them, I won't be happy. The EPA needs to go. the IRS needs to go, replacing it with a single % rate for all people and all businesses. The Dept. of Education needs to go. The Dept. of Commerce needs to be downsized by about 80%. Care for our wounded warriors needs to GO UP about 300%. Close the Damn borders and shoot those trying to get into the US.
     
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Mar 13, 2014, 07:14 AM
 
I'm sort of with Bad Kosh on this, except that I'd restrict the "not trusted to walk dogs" label to people who got elected, not those who got hired. We do not have any "Mr. Smiths" (a la "Mr Smith Goes to Washington") anymore. We have a few relatively honest pols there, but even those with the highest standards of integrity are there as part of a plan other than "serve my constituents."

Ms. F has long been a shrill voice in Congress, but she's typically been shrill on subjects that are emotional for a lot of people (her latest anti-gun shrillness has her evoking the horror of the Milk murder). But like most of the loudest and oddest voices in those hallowed halls, she has the ability to get people's attention not because she has something important to us to say, but that she has the tenure needed to control important committees.

Mr. Dingle, as a counter example, has essentially given up on that tenure system. He has announced he's retiring from Congress (and heading important committees) because he (paraphrasing) can't do what he was sent there to do while still considering reelection. Basically he has made it clear to everyone that staying in Congress is a game of "constantly campaigning" instead of working as an elected representative except during a short period when we decide whether to fire people and replace them.

Now, with Ms. F getting more shrill about the CIA mucking around with some internal Congressional database, it makes me wonder if she's talking about something with real substance, or if she's trying to leverage her control of the Intel committee into something else, or maybe pressuring the CIA about something we don't know about. Remember, she's the one who's been telling us that NSA has been sparklingly clean through their whole "listen to everyone, all the time" saga...

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
subego  (op)
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Mar 13, 2014, 11:20 AM
 
If you want to put on the foil hat, I'll say it is my understanding the NSA and the CIA do not get along well.

If you have enough layers in the hat, I'll say the CIA may have been helping a certain dude who used to be a security consultant for the NSA. I mean, we all know someone had to be helping.
     
subego  (op)
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Mar 13, 2014, 11:36 AM
 
With regard to Dingell, I do believe that was one of the intentions of the Founding Fathers. On one hand, the campaigning being a representative entails puts a cramp on effective work, but it's also the one place where there's some real accountability to the public. Representatives are the one set of politicians we can smack down on a short time scale.

And as the public, we do take some advantage of that. Every ten years or so we decimate the shit.
     
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Mar 13, 2014, 03:34 PM
 
@Glenn
I worry about your remarks for the same reason as I worry about ebuddy's: your dislike of Senator Feinstein covers up the bigger issue, namely that the CIA is also spying without a warrant, up to and including the people who are supposed to control them (in the sense of checks and balances).

Given that America's spy agencies are literally keeping everyone under surveillance (US mail, internet traffic, foreign leaders from friendly countries, you name it) my default is to think that these accusations are true. Even though it's hypocritical to complain only when one is a victim, at the heart of the matter is a valid criticism: the CIA should have never touched the computers of Senator Feinstein and her staffers. No matter what's on there. Maybe next time they'll do this to a senator or congress man you support.
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subego  (op)
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Mar 13, 2014, 06:29 PM
 
Why should they worry if they have nothing to hide?
     
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Mar 13, 2014, 07:18 PM
 
I wasn't particularly alarmed over the entire NSA thing because 1) I always figured they were doing that anyway, 2) I understand the difference between collecting metadata and content, and 3) unlike a lot of people who are clamoring for the government to "connect the dots" and catch the bad guys before and/or after a terrorist attack in the abstract ... I understand that this is what that actually entails in the concrete.

That being said, I must say that the irony of Sen. Feinstein's Senate floor speech and her defense of the NSA scandal is striking. To say the least.

OAW
     
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Mar 13, 2014, 10:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
I wasn't particularly alarmed over the entire NSA thing because [...] 2) I understand the difference between collecting metadata and content,
LOL, you do understand that neither the NSA, nor the FBI nor the CIA understand that difference, right ?

-t
     
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Mar 14, 2014, 06:57 AM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
@Glenn
I worry about your remarks for the same reason as I worry about ebuddy's: your dislike of Senator Feinstein covers up the bigger issue, namely that the CIA is also spying without a warrant, up to and including the people who are supposed to control them (in the sense of checks and balances).

Given that America's spy agencies are literally keeping everyone under surveillance (US mail, internet traffic, foreign leaders from friendly countries, you name it) my default is to think that these accusations are true. Even though it's hypocritical to complain only when one is a victim, at the heart of the matter is a valid criticism: the CIA should have never touched the computers of Senator Feinstein and her staffers. No matter what's on there. Maybe next time they'll do this to a senator or congress man you support.
I completely share your concerns OreoCookie and didn't express that very effectively. My point was not necessarily to deride Feinstein to be sure, but to demonstrate that this will essentially go nowhere because they're both mired in nonsense. Intelligence Committee insists its systems have been breached, CIA points finger at Intelligence Committee for having information it wasn't supposed to have. This doesn't excuse the CIA mind you as it is evidence of yet another Federal overreach. I do not appreciate Federal overreach. Myself and several others here have consistently been critical of what we view as a systemic, pervasive problem with Federal overreach that has continued to worsen over the past few years. We welcome Feinstein to this grievance, but wish her luck on her endeavors. We're getting stonewalled in investigations on Federal agencies targeting groups for their political views, stonewalled and obstructed investigation on the shenanigans that resulted in 4 dead including a US ambassador, stonewalled in seeking information on illegal Administration gun-running in Mexico resulting in a dead US border patrol agent because the Executive branch filed executive privilege around a matter it claims it had nothing to do with, and we can't get anywhere in challenging this Administration serving under oath to uphold law on the fact that you cannot simply pick and choose which laws to enforce and when or unilaterally changing them ad nauseam for political gain.

This Administration including its HHS arm, EPA arm, IRS arm, CIA arm, NSA arm, and DoJ all acting under the cover of Congressional stooges in partisan lock-step who insist complaints around these agencies are nothing more than political wrangling are now feeling the pinch of this overreach themselves. I welcome them in their attempts to provide much-needed oversight, but they've rendered themselves entirely feckless in this I'm afraid.
ebuddy
     
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Mar 14, 2014, 09:39 AM
 
@ebuddy
Ok, good, I think in these situations it's good to divorce oneself from like/dislike of a particular person and focus on what has actually happened. Governmental oversight is the only effective tool we have in the end to rein in on the blatant overreach of the various spy agencies.

The scary thing should be that none of the main stream politicians are fighting to strongly cut back (funding, abilities, etc.) the NSA and CIA, and that's what should worry all of us: in the minds of the politicians preventing terrorist attacks at literally all costs is still the number one priority rather than protecting the foundation of Western democracies.
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subego  (op)
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Mar 14, 2014, 03:57 PM
 
Did anyone happen to hear that story about a CIA agent who co-opted a willing congressman and with him, effectively ran our foreign policy in Afghanistan?
     
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Mar 14, 2014, 10:41 PM
 
I wasn't dismissing Feinstein's report either. I was rather pointing out that she has essentially overused her "power of shrill" and now seems to me to be the little boy who cried wolf...nobody will pay attention to her because she's over-stressed everything she's talked about.

I do dislike her for a number of reasons, but her seniority on the Intelligence Committee hasn't been one of them. It's her longevity in Congress that's the real issue, and her small repertoire of "this is important" techniques. After using all of their tools for getting people's attention so many times, nobody gets much traction.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
   
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