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You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Political/War Lounge > Donald Trump, 45th President of the United States of America: The Drinking Thread

Donald Trump, 45th President of the United States of America: The Drinking Thread (Page 7)
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Clinically Insane
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Mar 14, 2017, 05:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Did you ever actually plan on becoming a US citizen? I'm thinking "no", you just wanted people to start taking you seriously when talking about the election, for once.

Anyhow, you're going back in the bag, there's no need to talk with you.

This notion that I'm not a US citizen (or that this even matters) is another example of this weird delusional space you have created for yourself here where you can just say stuff and have it stand without backing it up with evidence. I decided to call you out on it because it is super annoying.

If you are not going to back stuff up (which is fine, we all do this at times), at least have the decency to admit you are wrong when you are corrected rather than just try to weasel out or shift the goalposts.

It's not just me that has tried to call you out though. OAW, Laminar, and many others have done the same a number of times. I'm just being more of a dick about it and personalizing it more, because clearly the other appeals to you have not made enough of an impact on you.


I'm clearly going in your bag because you are a Trump voter that lives in a neighborhood where the average income is below poverty line.
     
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Mar 14, 2017, 09:44 PM
 
oh. my. god.

     
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Mar 17, 2017, 11:16 PM
 
     
Clinically Insane
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Mar 20, 2017, 01:24 PM
 
Let me get out all the caveats.

Yes, Trump is a conspiritard.
Yes, he probably got the idea in his head from bad sources.
Yes, he's an idiot for being taken in by it.
Yes, the accusations in his tweets can be denied if you take them as written.
Yes, Presidents don't order surveillance, that's not how the system works.

Buuuuuuut... can we just dispel this fiction the bullshit surveillance state we live in didn't have its claws dug into the Trump campaign 9 ways to Sunday?

I'm going to predict it now. All the wiretap denials are going to come back around and take a big ass-chomp.
     
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Mar 20, 2017, 01:52 PM
 
     
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Mar 20, 2017, 02:16 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Buuuuuuut... can we just dispel this fiction the bullshit surveillance state we live in didn't have its claws dug into the Trump campaign 9 ways to Sunday?

I'm going to predict it now. All the wiretap denials are going to come back around and take a big ass-chomp.
Can we turn it around the other way then, and say, sure as heck they surveilled him, because they had evidence that he was conspiring with foreign govts to turn America into a gaping hole in the ground?
     
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Mar 20, 2017, 02:23 PM
 
Yeah he's trying to play himself off as the victim that was illegally targeted.

subego since you're always into accuracy he shouldn't get a pass on being 'kinda tight if you look at it this way'. You don't accept that from the media. If CNN posted a headline that mimicked his tweets you'd be lamenting how misleading it is.
     
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Mar 20, 2017, 02:27 PM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
Can we turn it around the other way then, and say, sure as heck they surveilled him, because they had evidence that he was conspiring with foreign govts to turn America into a gaping hole in the ground?
Assuming perhaps there's a bit of hyperbole in that last bit, it's certainly a plausible scenario.

Unfortunately, certain groups not caring how much evidence there is would also be plausible.
     
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Mar 20, 2017, 02:33 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Yeah he's trying to play himself off as the victim that was illegally targeted.

subego since you're always into accuracy he shouldn't get a pass on being 'kinda tight if you look at it this way'. You don't accept that from the media. If CNN posted a headline that mimicked his tweets you'd be lamenting how misleading it is.
As I said in the Kellyanne thread, if Trump Tower was the subject of clandestine electronic surveillance by a government agency, no one is going to care if he misidentified the technique in a tweet.
     
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Mar 20, 2017, 02:42 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
As I said in the Kellyanne thread, if Trump Tower was the subject of clandestine electronic surveillance by a government agency, no one is going to care if he misidentified the technique in a tweet.
Would you care if the media misidentified it?
     
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Mar 20, 2017, 04:03 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Would you care if the media misidentified it?
I get the idea this is all aiming at demonstrating I have a double standard, and I'm not necessarily going to disagree with the accusation, but what exactly would be the context for the misidentification? Why did it happen?

That I'm stymied by it is in contrast to why Trump would misidentify it. It's easy for me to come up with contexts for that.
     
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Mar 20, 2017, 04:56 PM
 
Is it really so ridiculous to contemplate that a person under investigation for a national crime would attempt to generate sympathy and deflect blame by redirecting the public's attention, denigrating investigators, and in the process making a rival sound like a peeping tom?

Bad guy!
     
OAW
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Mar 20, 2017, 06:31 PM
 
     
Games Meister
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Mar 20, 2017, 07:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I get the idea this is all aiming at demonstrating I have a double standard, and I'm not necessarily going to disagree with the accusation, but what exactly would be the context for the misidentification? Why did it happen?

That I'm stymied by it is in contrast to why Trump would misidentify it. It's easy for me to come up with contexts for that.
There's a difference between giving him a benefit of the doubt, which you purport to do, and cutting him some slack which it feels like you 're doing here.

Obviously, to my bias, you've been unusually kind to him all along, but stuff like this makes me think it's not just my bias leading me to that conclusion.
     
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Mar 21, 2017, 09:21 AM
 
My proposition is "ha, ha, joke's on you... we didn't tap your phones, we hacked your email server" has poor optics.

I don't think this is cutting him slack.
     
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Mar 21, 2017, 09:48 AM
 
If, per KellyAnn, Trump can use the phrase "wire-tapping" to mean eavesdropping inclusive of all other means, to wit, microwaves, electronic surveillance, phone hacking, email servers, hiring spies as waiters, planting bugs in his houseplants, putting a glass up to the wall of his room in Trump Tower... then can we not accept the FBI's assertion that Trump was not "wire-tapped"?
     
Clinically Insane
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Mar 21, 2017, 10:10 AM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
If, per KellyAnn, Trump can use the phrase "wire-tapping" to mean eavesdropping inclusive of all other means, to wit, microwaves, electronic surveillance, phone hacking, email servers, hiring spies as waiters, planting bugs in his houseplants, putting a glass up to the wall of his room in Trump Tower... then can we not accept the FBI's assertion that Trump was not "wire-tapped"?
I misunderstood the question.

Give me a sec...
     
Clinically Insane
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Mar 21, 2017, 10:18 AM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
If, per KellyAnn, Trump can use the phrase "wire-tapping" to mean eavesdropping inclusive of all other means, to wit, microwaves, electronic surveillance, phone hacking, email servers, hiring spies as waiters, planting bugs in his houseplants, putting a glass up to the wall of his room in Trump Tower... then can we not accept the FBI's assertion that Trump was not "wire-tapped"?
I think what's said in a Congressional hearing should probably be taken more literally than what's said in tweets.
     
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Mar 21, 2017, 10:42 AM
 
Even when those tweets come from a president.
     
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Mar 21, 2017, 11:56 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I think what's said in a Congressional hearing should probably be taken more literally than what's said in tweets.
Those are tweets from the President, using the POTUS account — it's official communication. Alternatively, we could stop taking Donald Trump seriously, but what does that mean for the American democracy?
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Clinically Insane
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Mar 22, 2017, 08:19 AM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
Those are tweets from the President, using the POTUS account — it's official communication. Alternatively, we could stop taking Donald Trump seriously, but what does that mean for the American democracy?
Which one? The "wiretapp" tweet was from his RDT account.
     
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Mar 22, 2017, 08:49 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Even when those tweets come from a president.
It isn't what we want, it is what it is. Unless the game here is shaming him into tweeting literally (good luck with that), if he's not being literal then he's not being literal.

With this story I'm going along with the narrative he read/heard about an old article which leaked the FBI tried, failed, and then finally succeeded in getting a FISC warrant on the Trump campaign. He then proceeded to throw a fit.

Is thinking this is what occurred cutting him slack?

If that story was the source, there's a straightforward interpretation to the tweet. He wrotee "wire tapp" because he didn't get any specifics, which is entirely in his character.

Isn't there slight cognitive dissonance to the claim "this is what Trump meant... I know because it's the semantically precise interpretation"?
( Last edited by subego; Mar 22, 2017 at 09:57 AM. )
     
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Mar 22, 2017, 09:16 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Which one? The "wiretapp" tweet was from his RDT account.
I should have been more precise, only some of the tweets come from the official account. But I don't think it matters which account they come from, it's official communication from the President. Tweets aren't any less or more official than a telegram, email, phone call or address on TV.
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Clinically Insane
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Mar 22, 2017, 09:19 AM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
I should have been more precise, only some of the tweets come from the official account. But I don't think it matters which account they come from, it's official communication from the President. Tweets aren't any less or more official than a telegram, email, phone call or address on TV.
Is the argument Trump should communicate with precision, or he does?

If it's the latter, I need evidence, because this claim does not match reality as I know it.
     
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Mar 22, 2017, 09:21 AM
 
I feel like the general argument is "this turd should be a million dollars".
     
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Mar 22, 2017, 10:17 AM
 
The issue is you're lowering your standards for the presidents behavior because a lunatic got elected. Would we accept that from any other president? If the answer is no, you're cutting him slack.
     
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Mar 22, 2017, 10:34 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
The issue is you're lowering your standards for the presidents behavior because a lunatic got elected. Would we accept that from any other president? If the answer is no, you're cutting him slack.
How do standards enter into interpretation of what someone meant with their statement? The interpretation either accurately reflects what was meant or it doesn't.
     
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Mar 22, 2017, 11:02 AM
 
Because we have expectations that someone in his position chooses his words carefully.
     
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Mar 22, 2017, 11:07 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Because we have expectations that someone in his position chooses his words carefully.
Have your expectations been fulfilled on that front?

If not, Q.E.D.
     
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Mar 22, 2017, 07:47 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Is the argument Trump should communicate with precision, or he does?
???
I don't get what you're saying.
I'm saying that people shouldn't cut Trump some slack because “it's just Twitter” and not some “official” communication of the President. Anything Trump says and writes there is as official as any other type of communication.
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OAW
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Mar 23, 2017, 10:30 AM
 
There's a reason why idiots like this comprise much of Trump's base.

ABC News Twitter Account Hit by Profane, Trump-Supporting Hackers - NBC News

OAW
     
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Mar 23, 2017, 10:45 AM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
???
I don't get what you're saying.
I'm saying that people shouldn't cut Trump some slack because “it's just Twitter” and not some “official” communication of the President. Anything Trump says and writes there is as official as any other type of communication.
It appears what's being proposed is if a person means X and says Y, I am to ignore X. Paying attention to X is cutting slack.

I don't operate this way. X is what matters, Y is only relevant in terms of leading me to X.
     
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Mar 23, 2017, 11:03 AM
 
That sounds exhausting, always having to look for the hidden meanings. Also a great excuse for the dishonest.
     
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Mar 23, 2017, 11:23 AM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
There's a reason why idiots like this comprise much of Trump's base.

ABC News Twitter Account Hit by Profane, Trump-Supporting Hackers - NBC News
"Much of Trump's base"? They really don't, not unless you're prepared to claim Antifa as "much of the Left's base". These are 4chan trolls, extremists, they don't support anyone, they're anarchists (anarcocapitalists, for the most part) who just want to see the entire system burn.
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Mar 23, 2017, 11:45 AM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
That sounds exhausting, always having to look for the hidden meanings. Also a great excuse for the dishonest.
It's not really hidden meaning, it's poor communication.

I'm used to it from arguing with people on the internet, and not looking for what people mean that context is what would be exhausting. People almost never manage to say what they mean, and because no one ever tries to figure out what was intended, the arguments go nowhere. Welcome to internet!

Yes, there's definitely a risk of people taking advantage. Luckily, Trump stopped taking my calls, so I'm not too worried.
     
Clinically Insane
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Mar 23, 2017, 11:58 AM
 
My position has been Trump read/heard the old FISA warrant story, pooped his diapers, and then cried about it on Twitter like a whiny baby. Like a whiny baby, he blew the nature of what was happening completely out of proportion.

I can dig up the warrant stories if someone wants. I can dig up the story which points to the warrant story being the flashpoint. I can show countless examples of Trump pooping his diapers, tweeting like an infant, and blowing everything out of proportion.

The counter-scenario is Trump's a liar, and means what he says. I've got a problem with half of that.
     
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Mar 23, 2017, 03:35 PM
 
     
Clinically Insane
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Mar 27, 2017, 10:49 AM
 
Michael Steele compared and contrasted Trump's failed attempt to negotiate with the Republicans in congress, and how Trump will negotiate with Democrats going forward.

Steele said Trump will get along better with the Democrats because their ideologies are closer.
( Last edited by subego; Mar 27, 2017 at 11:56 AM. )
     
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Mar 27, 2017, 11:54 AM
 
hahahahahahahaha
     
Clinically Insane
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Mar 27, 2017, 12:03 PM
 
Have Trump's ideologies shifted in recent years, or is he just saying crap to win?
     
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Mar 27, 2017, 12:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
hahahahahahahaha
I laughed too, but there may be some surprises in there. He has an unusual interest in labor issues.
     
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Mar 27, 2017, 12:11 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
Have Trump's ideologies shifted in recent years, or is he just saying crap to win?
I'm sure he's said crap to win.

Though it wasn't capitalized on for whatever reason, the obvious slag against Trump during the primaries was he's a RINO.
     
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Mar 27, 2017, 12:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Steele said Trump will get along better with the Democrats because their ideologies are closer.
Trump IS a moderate Dem, he's a populist, how is this surprising to anyone? He didn't start making conservative noises until he needed the Repub base to be elected. I'm sure Leftists are now convinced he somehow transformed into an arch-conservative, but in reality he never did. What will be interesting is watching Dems reject many of his new fiscal policies, which will be rebadged liberal ideas, simply because they came from Trump.
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Mar 27, 2017, 12:23 PM
 
Trump: I'm a republican now, they love me, I don't need to be nice to Democrats, we have enough R votes to get everything done they paid me to do.

-2 months later -

Trump: I will talk to democrats to get stuff done.
     
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Mar 27, 2017, 12:26 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I laughed too, but there may be some surprises in there. He has an unusual interest in labor issues.
This only holds true if Trump pursues the populist parts of his agenda. The AHCA is a huge he red flag in that regard.
     
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Mar 27, 2017, 12:39 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
This only holds true if Trump pursues the populist parts of his agenda. The AHCA is a huge he red flag in that regard.
Doesn't this analysis assume consistency?

If it does, I think that's maybe the wrong way to look at it.
     
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Mar 27, 2017, 12:46 PM
 
What's left? Infrastructure? Anything else?
     
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Mar 27, 2017, 12:56 PM
 
One look at the man's cabinet makes it pretty clear that we can expect Trump and the GOP Congress to prioritize those policy initiatives that primarily benefit the wealthy.

OAW
     
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Mar 27, 2017, 01:11 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
What's left? Infrastructure? Anything else?
Infrastructure and job creation.
     
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Mar 27, 2017, 01:13 PM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
One look at the man's cabinet makes it pretty clear that we can expect Trump and the GOP Congress to prioritize those policy initiatives that primarily benefit the wealthy.

OAW
Except when it doesn't. Do his immigration policies help the wealthy?
     
 
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