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So, any concerns right-wingers? (Apparently none at all.) (Page 7)
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Feb 21, 2017, 06:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
Yeah, his millions of fans will simply disappear. It's no wonder you guys have failed so badly at national politics.
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Feb 21, 2017, 06:47 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Yeah, his millions of fans will simply disappear. It's no wonder you guys have failed so badly at national politics.
1. Book Deal? Gone.

2. Breitbart Senior Editor Position? Gone.

3. College Speaking Tour? On the bubble. Probably gone as well.

4. Millions of likeminded Internet trolls? Still around.

Only in the mind of CTP is 4 > 1 + 2 + 3.

OAW
     
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Feb 21, 2017, 10:40 PM
 
I can't really see anything extremely conservative about Milo once you cut through the crap. I know conservatives are desperately trying (and to be fair succeeding) to take ownership of protecting free speech with their pathological snowflake hatred on top of their traditional white supremacy arguments, but I don't see that as a true conservative issue. I actually agree with him on more things that I care to admit. And I don't think any of you consider me to be remotely conservative.

Maybe its his religious views that lead Milo to identify so strongly as conservative, but I suspect its more that he knows he can make money selling his Coulteresque shock jock act to conservatives just like she does. There isn't really an equivalent for liberals.
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Feb 21, 2017, 11:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
1. Book Deal? Gone.

2. Breitbart Senior Editor Position? Gone.

3. College Speaking Tour? On the bubble. Probably gone as well.

4. Millions of likeminded Internet trolls? Still around.

Only in the mind of CTP is 4 > 1 + 2 + 3.

OAW
1. Book deal has moved to another publisher.
2. He's already been offered by another news site (Rebel media).
3. He's still on the college tour.
4. His "trolls" on his Youtube channel have grown by 30% in 1 month, 10% in 2 days.

Apparently you add as well as you assess political death.
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Feb 21, 2017, 11:41 PM
 
^^^^

All publishers aren't created equal. As well as media outlets. And expect plenty of disinvitations from various colleges in the coming days. As for his legions of like-minded trolls .... yourself included? No one is saying he doesn't have a following. I'm just saying he was on the cusp of breaking out to a whole new level of commercial success. And he has screwed the pooch as far as that is concerned.

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Feb 22, 2017, 12:45 AM
 
     
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Feb 22, 2017, 02:25 AM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
^^^^

All publishers aren't created equal. As well as media outlets. And expect plenty of disinvitations from various colleges in the coming days. As for his legions of like-minded trolls .... yourself included?
Says the forum's biggest troll. He'd fancy you more, I'm not his type, and no I don't sub to him.


No one is saying he doesn't have a following. I'm just saying he was on the cusp of breaking out to a whole new level of commercial success. And he has screwed the pooch as far as that is concerned.
He's fine, much to your chagrin when you figure that out.
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Feb 22, 2017, 02:27 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Warn us before sending us to the NYT, ugh.
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Feb 22, 2017, 10:12 AM
 
I forgot to add, how about Trump holding a rally this weekend?
     
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Feb 22, 2017, 10:25 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
I forgot to add, how about Trump holding a rally this weekend?
Melania can open up with not only with the Lord's Prayer, the Hail Mary and the Glory Be as well.

come to rhink of it, Melania may even include the Sign of the Cross!
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Feb 22, 2017, 10:41 AM
 
Do you feel pandered to?
     
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Feb 22, 2017, 10:48 AM
 
Is the lesson here that you can campaign anytime as long as you open up with a religious prayer?
     
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Feb 22, 2017, 12:31 PM
 
When Trump repeatedly retweeted known neo-nazi accounts on Twitter and made Steve Bannon (the man who made Breitbart.com the "platform of the alt-right") his campaign CEO and right-hand man in the White House he created the climate for a significant increase in anti-semitic threats and vandalism around the country since his election. He was the favorite of white supremacists among all the other GOP candidates for POTUS and for obvious reasons to anyone paying attention. Starting with all that racist "birther" nonsense. I know the area quite well since this went down in my old neighborhood in STL. Kudos to the local and national Muslim community for immediately rallying to help our Jewish brothers and sisters recover from this outrageous act.

The damaging of dozens of headstones at a Jewish cemetery spurred Muslim groups to raise thousands of dollars to help with repairs.

A crowdfunding campaign started by social justice activists Linda Sarsour, of New York, and Tarek El-Messidi, of Cincinnati, raised more than $20,000 within a few hours to help the Chesed Shel Emel Cemetery after up to 200 headstones were toppled during the weekend. As of late Tuesday, the campaign raised more than $40,000.

Locally, Imam Mufti Asif Umar of the Islamic Federation of Greater St. Louis condemned the incident “a horrific and disgusting act of vandalism which cannot be tolerated.”

The Missouri Council of American-Islamic Relations and the Imam Council of Metropolitan St. Louis, which represents 18 Islamic Centers in the city, also denounced the vandalism.

Members of the council of imams rebuked the deed in a statement Tuesday calling it a cowardly act and its leader saying he was appalled.

"We want the Jewish community to know that the Muslim community stands with you in solidarity as Anti-semitism, Islamophobia and hate in general is on the rise in our nation," Imam Djilali Kacem said.


A statement released by the council echoed concerns over bigotry against religious groups in a "ever polarizing nation."

Missouri Council of American-Islam Relations executive director Faizen Syed said the relatives of many of his friends were buried at the cemetery. He added that the action was not only a threat against the Jewish community, but "against all faiths and the values we hold dear as Americans."

Council members said on Facebook late Tuesday they would join in cleanup efforts at the cemetery Wednesday followed by an interfaith vigil.
Muslim groups raise thousands of dollars for Jewish community in aftermath of cemetery vandalism | Metro | stltoday.com

OAW
     
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Feb 22, 2017, 12:44 PM
 
Jews offering their Temples to muslims who's mosque burned down, muslims raising money for vandalized Jewish graves. Hope remains.
     
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Feb 22, 2017, 01:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
Except that seems to be exactly what he is arguing. Except when he isn't. He's actually being quite unclear about the whole thing. I was reading some of the post where he tried to defend himself and he says he's totally against pedophilia including 13-28 ages except that seems to be exactly what he's championing in the video. You make a good point and if he is trying to say that young gay men need mentors, then maybe he would have a point but that doesn't seem to be what he's saying either. Not exactly. He isn't normally confusing or contradictory about anything he says which tells me he knows he's messed up this time and gone too far. Unfortunately he's too arrogant to say sorry and to try to reset the conversation so he can explain a more reasonable version of what he actually means and so people are simply saying "I can't be sure what he means so when it comes to child molestation I'm going to err on the side of caution."
Sorry! I missed this!

What Milo is arguing is the moral question about gay boys and gay men is different from the legal question.

Legally, one has to pick an age as a hard-cutoff.

Morally, the answer depends on the maturity of the boy. He offers himself up as an example. He was ready to tango at 14.

His ultimate argument is that actual pedophiles are looking for something different. They don't want an adult in a boy body. They want a boy in a boy body.


When it comes to arguing the mentor point, Milo has unfortunately painted himself in a corner. His schtick is queers like himself need to know their place in white, European, heterosexual society. People who bitch about society not catering to the needs of young gay boys are whiny, special snowflake SJWs.
     
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Feb 22, 2017, 01:25 PM
 
I should also add, having a disproportionate amount of gay boys at the "right" maturity level is an ironic outgrowth of the lack of mentorship.

Gay boys have to start confronting their sexuality as soon as they realize they're gay. This forces many into a situation where they need to "grow up" about sex earlier than what's desired. Straight kids aren't in this situation.

My understanding is this applies to lesbians too, but the dynamics are different.
     
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Feb 22, 2017, 03:20 PM
 
Yeah I've read his apology/resignation statement and I I get what he's saying, but in the video that got him in trouble, he is uncharacteristically unclear. He says it himself, he worded things wrongly and what we ended up with sounds very much like he is saying something very wrong.

Despite this, he insists he was 'mature' enough at 13 but this is unlikely. He doesn't really do humble or admit mistakes as a rule and besides, there are plenty of sexually active 13 year olds. The ones doing it with other 13 year olds are maybe ok. The ones doing it with 30 and 40 year olds are almost certainly not. Doesn't matter whether they think they are at the time or twenty years later.
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Feb 22, 2017, 03:33 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
Do you feel pandered to?
Why? Were Pelosi and Schumer giving another presser?
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Feb 22, 2017, 09:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
Yeah I've read his apology/resignation statement and I I get what he's saying, but in the video that got him in trouble, he is uncharacteristically unclear. He says it himself, he worded things wrongly and what we ended up with sounds very much like he is saying something very wrong.
I think one of the most pertinent bits is right at the beginning of Milo's recent press conference:
Originally Posted by Milo
My relationship with my abusers is complicated by the fact that at the time, I didn't perceive what was happening as abusive. But I can look back now and see that it was. I still don't view myself as a victim. [emphasis added] But clearly, I am one.
This is exactly how I understood his comments in the two podcasts, and clearly explains why he made the statements that he did.
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Feb 23, 2017, 06:51 AM
 
Still waiting for the Left to turn on George Takei for saying the same shit.

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Feb 23, 2017, 01:44 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
Yeah I've read his apology/resignation statement and I I get what he's saying, but in the video that got him in trouble, he is uncharacteristically unclear. He says it himself, he worded things wrongly and what we ended up with sounds very much like he is saying something very wrong.

Despite this, he insists he was 'mature' enough at 13 but this is unlikely. He doesn't really do humble or admit mistakes as a rule and besides, there are plenty of sexually active 13 year olds. The ones doing it with other 13 year olds are maybe ok. The ones doing it with 30 and 40 year olds are almost certainly not. Doesn't matter whether they think they are at the time or twenty years later.
I didn't really read his explanation... I'm going by what he said in the tape.

As I said, he's stuck between a rock and a hard place. He's usually clearer with his points because those points never involve him getting really emotional about what drives gay teens to suicide... because what does it is all the shit he pretends he believes in.

It also doesn't help 13 is the most extreme and improbable example with which to make the argument.
     
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Feb 23, 2017, 03:55 PM
 
I think a better way to approach the issue is to ask this question.

Would the age based social boundaries for heterosexual relationships change if the following were true.

1) Women had testosterone based sex drives, and the equivalent amount of testosterone fueling them.
2) Monogamy was intended to be the exception, not the rule (refer to point 1).
3) The need for sexual relationships to be part of a functioning family unit was rendered moot because...
4) It was physically impossible to have children.

This would significantly change the calculus, and that's before I even get to the mind**** where everyone is being taught how to have a relationship where none of the above is true, and scripture insisting there's no way to even have a sexual relationship without being an abomination before God.
     
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Feb 23, 2017, 06:32 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Still waiting for the Left to turn on George Takei for saying the same shit.

I suppose it's possible that I missed something that Sulu said, but the clips I've heard are not equivalent to what Milo said at all.

Takei related his personal sexual experience with a 19 year old when he was 14 (or 18 and 13, I think I heard both). He said it was wonderful and that he wasn't molested. I've not heard him say anywhere that the age of consent was too low.

Takei talked only about himself and did not make any comment on society.

Milo did. And that's why the traditional conservatives are so pissed off. If he had told the exact same story as Takei- word for word- some republicans would have thought it icky, but there would have been no large scale backlash. They all knew he was gay. Now he sounds like a predator to them.

All the regressive cuck snowflakes thought he was a tool anyway, so no change there.

They are only equivalent in your mind because it suits the narrative.
     
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Feb 23, 2017, 07:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by Paco500 View Post
Takei related his personal sexual experience with a 19-year-old when he was 14 (or 18 and 13, I think I heard both). He said it was wonderful and that he wasn't molested. I've not heard him say anywhere that the age of consent was too low.
I work with students aged 12-25. 14-year-olds are so confused about lives and their identities. They're terrified when they come into the high school class, and it takes a good two years for them to lose that intimidation. Many barely speak in group settings until late in their sophomore year.

A 19-year-old having sexual contact with a 14-year-old is absolutely molestation. They're barely the same species. The younger one isn't looking at a peer — he/she is looking at an idol.

To be clear: Milo's comments were much worse than Takei's. The flippancy with which he presented his "jokes" was as egregious as his opinion.
     
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Feb 23, 2017, 08:59 PM
 
I dated a 15 year old when I was 18.
     
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Feb 23, 2017, 10:04 PM
 
^^^

My high school sweetheart was 3 years younger than me as well. Fortunately our parents were all cool with the relationship.

OAW
     
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Feb 23, 2017, 10:10 PM
 
Originally Posted by Jawbone54 View Post
I work with students aged 12-25. 14-year-olds are so confused about lives and their identities. They're terrified when they come into the high school class, and it takes a good two years for them to lose that intimidation. Many barely speak in group settings until late in their sophomore year.

A 19-year-old having sexual contact with a 14-year-old is absolutely molestation. They're barely the same species. The younger one isn't looking at a peer — he/she is looking at an idol.

To be clear: Milo's comments were much worse than Takei's. The flippancy with which he presented his "jokes" was as egregious as his opinion.
I don't disagree with anything you are saying. If I came across as supporting the notion that the encounter Sulu describes was appropriate, I apologise- I was was just trying to accurately report what he said and how it was worlds away from what Milo said.
     
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Feb 23, 2017, 10:24 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I didn't really read his explanation... I'm going by what he said in the tape.

As I said, he's stuck between a rock and a hard place. He's usually clearer with his points because those points never involve him getting really emotional about what drives gay teens to suicide... because what does it is all the shit he pretends he believes in.

It also doesn't help 13 is the most extreme and improbable example with which to make the argument.
You're right but its a rock and hard place of his own making. He's one of those people who occasionally wants others to think he cares while refusing to show any real sign of emotion, vulnerability or ill-perceived weakness. Makes it harder to know if he really cares or if he's just trying to weasel out of a tricky situation so he can get back to saying unpleasant things and raking in the cash. Even if its probably both.

I think we're in pretty much total agreement here.
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Feb 23, 2017, 10:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
You're right but its a rock and hard place of his own making. He's one of those people who occasionally wants others to think he cares while refusing to show any real sign of emotion, vulnerability or ill-perceived weakness. Makes it harder to know if he really cares or if he's just trying to weasel out of a tricky situation so he can get back to saying unpleasant things and raking in the cash. Even if its probably both.

I think we're in pretty much total agreement here.
I forget her name, but there's a liberal blogger who wrote an article about why she hates Milo's ****ing guts.

1) He keeps on inviting me to his parties.
2) I go to them and he's very nice to me.

That's probably the real Milo, along with the one who cares for messed-up teenagers. It makes the Milo we see that much sadder of a case.
     
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Feb 24, 2017, 12:30 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I dated a 15 year old when I was 18.
What you did is completely within the normal range: It is not just the age, but the age difference that matters: if you blindly apply <= 16 and >= 18, you miss the nuance of distinguishing a 15-year old dating an 18-year old (still completely ok) and a 15-year old dating a 40-year old (should be illegal). German law makes the cutoff of the older partner at 21 (which I find reasonable): if one is older than 21 and the other younger than 16, the older partner can get into legal trouble if the parents object. If the younger person is 16 and older, he or she can decide.

Picking the size of the gray area is really important here, because not all problems need to be sorted out by the law. I think it is good to resist the urge to impose too draconian penalties (in some US states a sexual relationship between an 17- and an 18-year old could be problematic and put the 18-year old on the list of child sex offenders for life).
Originally Posted by subego View Post
That's probably the real Milo, along with the one who cares for messed-up teenagers. It makes the Milo we see that much sadder of a case.
Exactly. If Milo chooses this public persona, he still has to stand by this choice.
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Feb 24, 2017, 12:37 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I dated a 15 year old when I was 18.
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
^^^

My high school sweetheart was 3 years younger than me as well. Fortunately our parents were all cool with the relationship.

OAW
OAW, I'm sure we can all agree both sets of parents being okay with it changes almost everything. 100% on board with that.

Don't be confused: I'm not calling anyone here a pedo. Especially not you guys.

As you probably know, I'm required to report any sexual contact deemed statutory rape. Louisiana's laws are somewhat complicated. I was rusty on the finer details, so I confirmed through Louisiana Age of Consent Lawyers | LegalMatch Law Library.

Our age of consent is 17, but a person between the ages of 13-15 can have a physical relationship with someone up to three years older than them. So a 15-year-old tops out with an 18-year-old partner. If the person is between the ages of 15-17, only a two differential is permitted, so a 17-year-old can only be physical with someone 19-years-old or younger.

I would agree that anything beyond a three-year difference is usually a big deal at such a young age. I'm not trying to placate you guys; I'm saying that three years is both within the bounds of the law, and seems to be a decent figure based on my experience.

If an 18-year-old is in a sexual relationship with a 14-year-old, the younger individual is usually unprepared for what is happening on an emotional level, even if the sexual component doesn't progress as far as intercourse. I know that many people would disagree with me, as many have their first consensual physically romantic experiences during that time frame (or at least are trying as intensely as they can). But when a sexually experienced, older teen interjects his or herself into that situation, it has the potential to be earth-shattering. When they're 22 and 18, it's not such a big deal. When they're 28 and 24, it means absolutely nothing.

But 12, 13, 14...dating a 16, 17, 18-year-old, respectively...it's getting really close to a dangerous place. That four year (or greater) gap can toe the line between truly consensual and coercive. It doesn't happen all the time, but I've seen it happen enough that, as a parent, I'd be cautious of anyone that much older trying to date one of my own until they've developed a few years.

Originally Posted by Paco500 View Post
I don't disagree with anything you are saying. If I came across as supporting the notion that the encounter Sulu describes was appropriate, I apologise- I was was just trying to accurately report what he said and how it was worlds away from what Milo said.
No, not at all. I understand.

I'm speaking more towards the insanely biased commenters I've seen in places like Reddit. Nothing from the 'NN. Again, I'd like to reiterate: I wouldn't defend Milo for a second. However, I do believe that he's joking about elements of his own case when he was a boy, hiding some underlying hurt. My brother was raped at about the same age, and while he says it didn't feel particularly malicious in the moment, he still can't talk about it without choking up. He said he's lived his entire life feeling dirty.
     
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Feb 24, 2017, 12:49 AM
 
That law doesn't make any sense.

It was legal for for me to date the 15 year old when I was 18, but then one year later the same relationship becomes illegal?


FWIW, I didn't think I was being accused of anything.
     
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Feb 24, 2017, 01:03 AM
 
Originally Posted by Jawbone54 View Post
Our age of consent is 17, but a person between the ages of 13-15 can have a physical relationship with someone up to three years older than them. So a 15-year-old tops out with an 18-year-old partner. If the person is between the ages of 15-17, only a two differential is permitted, so a 17-year-old can only be physical with someone 19-years-old or younger.
That makes no sense: a legal relationship becomes an illegal one!?! :errr:
Originally Posted by Jawbone54 View Post
I would agree that anything beyond a three-year difference is usually a big deal at such a young age. I'm not trying to placate you guys; I'm saying that three years is both within the bounds of the law, and seems to be a decent figure based on my experience.
At that age, women tend to be more mature than men, so I think it is a bit more subtle than that. Which is why I like the solution where for a certain period, it is legal with the consent of the parents.
Originally Posted by Jawbone54 View Post
If an 18-year-old is in a sexual relationship with a 14-year-old, the younger individual is usually unprepared for what is happening on an emotional level, even if the sexual component doesn't progress as far as intercourse.
That wasn't necessarily my experience, in my class of ~120 there were several guys having relationships with girls who were 3-4 years younger, so many that I don't think it is good to criminalize this behavior. And also the other way around, I knew plenty of guys who were quite immature at 16, still behaving like little boys.
Originally Posted by Jawbone54 View Post
But 12, 13, 14...dating a 16, 17, 18-year-old, respectively...it's getting really close to a dangerous place. That four year (or greater) gap can toe the line between truly consensual and coercive. It doesn't happen all the time, but I've seen it happen enough that, as a parent, I'd be cautious of anyone that much older trying to date one of my own until they've developed a few years.
The tricky question is: at what point is societal pressure enough, and at what point do you criminalize that behavior — knowing that laws are usually applied to boys rather than girls. Parents can still intervene and put the kibosh on the relationship, I don't see the need for law to intervene — even if one is 14 and the other 18.
Originally Posted by Jawbone54 View Post
However, I do believe that he's joking about elements of his own case when he was a boy, hiding some underlying hurt. My brother was raped at about the same age, and while he says it didn't feel particularly malicious in the moment, he still can't talk about it without choking up. He said he's lived his entire life feeling dirty.
First of all, sorry to hear about your brother. I agree with you, Milo is probably hiding his own injuries with inappropriate humor.
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Feb 24, 2017, 02:44 AM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
What you did is completely within the normal range: It is not just the age, but the age difference that matters: if you blindly apply <= 16 and >= 18, you miss the nuance of distinguishing a 15-year old dating an 18-year old (still completely ok) and a 15-year old dating a 40-year old (should be illegal). German law makes the cutoff of the older partner at 21 (which I find reasonable): if one is older than 21 and the other younger than 16, the older partner can get into legal trouble if the parents object. If the younger person is 16 and older, he or she can decide.

Picking the size of the gray area is really important here, because not all problems need to be sorted out by the law. I think it is good to resist the urge to impose too draconian penalties (in some US states a sexual relationship between an 17- and an 18-year old could be problematic and put the 18-year old on the list of child sex offenders for life).

Exactly. If Milo chooses this public persona, he still has to stand by this choice.
Europeans tend to have a more rational take on these laws.

The relationship I was in at 18 in my state was legal, but taking her across state lines without telling her parents (which I did) was in fact a major federal crime.

I agree about Milo. He's made his bed.
     
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Feb 24, 2017, 05:23 AM
 
Originally Posted by Jawbone54 View Post
As you probably know, I'm required to report any sexual contact deemed statutory rape. Louisiana's laws are somewhat complicated. I was rusty on the finer details, so I confirmed through Louisiana Age of Consent Lawyers | LegalMatch Law Library.
One more question: I thought you were a minister!? Aren't there exemptions for ministers (such as there are for doctors, psychologists and religious officials)? If you were a Catholic priest, and someone confessed this to you, would you still be obliged to report it?
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Feb 24, 2017, 09:57 AM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
One more question: I thought you were a minister!? Aren't there exemptions for ministers (such as there are for doctors, psychologists and religious officials)? If you were a Catholic priest, and someone confessed this to you, would you still be obliged to report it?
https://www.childwelfare.gov/pubPDFs/clergymandated.pdf

Depends on the state. In LA, clergy are mandatory reporters (not sure if Jawbone has his MDiv/ordination), but they are granted pastoral privilege in pastoral communication.
     
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Feb 24, 2017, 10:14 AM
 
FBI refused White House request to knock down recent Trump-Russia stories - CNNPolitics.com

This seems to be a big deal in the media right now but i don't quite get it. Apparently they White House shouldn't be communicating with the FBI?
     
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Feb 24, 2017, 10:51 AM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
One more question: I thought you were a minister!? Aren't there exemptions for ministers (such as there are for doctors, psychologists and religious officials)? If you were a Catholic priest, and someone confessed this to you, would you still be obliged to report it?
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
https://www.childwelfare.gov/pubPDFs/clergymandated.pdf

Depends on the state. In LA, clergy are mandatory reporters (not sure if Jawbone has his MDiv/ordination), but they are granted pastoral privilege in pastoral communication.
No. He can't say if someone went to him at all.
Louisiana Priest Praises Seal of Confession Ruling as a Victory for Religious Liberty | ncregister.com
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Feb 24, 2017, 10:53 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I dated a 15 year old when I was 18.
My mother's parents, in think 1921 AZ. He was 28, she was 15. (arraigned) He was married to her older sister. She died in childbirth.
( Last edited by Chongo; Feb 24, 2017 at 03:42 PM. )
"The blood of the martyrs is the seed of the church" Saint Tertullian, 197 AD
     
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Feb 24, 2017, 11:19 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
FBI refused White House request to knock down recent Trump-Russia stories - CNNPolitics.com

This seems to be a big deal in the media right now but i don't quite get it. Apparently they White House shouldn't be communicating with the FBI?
I got the following impression, no idea if it's correct.

WH: Please knock down these stories
FBI: Sorry... not allowed to lie.
     
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Feb 24, 2017, 11:32 AM
 
Originally Posted by Paco500 View Post
I don't disagree with anything you are saying. If I came across as supporting the notion that the encounter Sulu describes was appropriate, I apologise- I was was just trying to accurately report what he said and how it was worlds away from what Milo said.
It isn't.
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Feb 24, 2017, 11:37 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I got the following impression, no idea if it's correct.

WH: Please knock down these stories
FBI: Sorry... not allowed to lie.
I think that's wrong. It's more 'we won't comment on an open investigation '
     
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Feb 24, 2017, 08:06 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
My mother's parents, in think 1921 AZ. He was 28, she was 15. (arraigned) He was married to her older sister. She died in childbirth.
While the age differences and young brides were more common in the past, I hope you're not painting a picture of rosy perfection. Perhaps as a member of the family, your grandparents already at least knew each other. Maybe it worked out great for them. For others, not so much. Women did not have power of consent, or many options other than marriage, for much of history.

In comparison to your family, my greatgrandmother was raped at age 12 by a much older man who was staying in the same boarding house. His punishment was to marry her. She had four children, and managed to leave him at 20 carrying the youngest, and nothing else.
     
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Feb 27, 2017, 03:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
That law doesn't make any sense.

It was legal for for me to date the 15 year old when I was 18, but then one year later the same relationship becomes illegal?
Welcome to Louisiana.

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Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
That makes no sense: a legal relationship becomes an illegal one!?! :errr:

At that age, women tend to be more mature than men, so I think it is a bit more subtle than that. Which is why I like the solution where for a certain period, it is legal with the consent of the parents.
I agree.

That wasn't necessarily my experience, in my class of ~120 there were several guys having relationships with girls who were 3-4 years younger, so many that I don't think it is good to criminalize this behavior. And also the other way around, I knew plenty of guys who were quite immature at 16, still behaving like little boys.

The tricky question is: at what point is societal pressure enough, and at what point do you criminalize that behavior — knowing that laws are usually applied to boys rather than girls. Parents can still intervene and put the kibosh on the relationship, I don't see the need for law to intervene — even if one is 14 and the other 18.
Many parents are either completely disengaged in their kid's lives, or largely ignorant as to the specifics of their days, patterns, culture, relationships, etc. Basing the law around parental consent is problematic.

As you said, many young relationships with a 3-5 year gap in age are fine, but others could be wholly unhealthy. How could we be expected to govern the legality of relationships on a case-by-case basis? As broken as these laws are some ways, age requirements might possibly be the only solution. It's definitely imperfect.

Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
One more question: I thought you were a minister!? Aren't there exemptions for ministers (such as there are for doctors, psychologists and religious officials)? If you were a Catholic priest, and someone confessed this to you, would you still be obliged to report it?
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
https://www.childwelfare.gov/pubPDFs/clergymandated.pdf

Depends on the state. In LA, clergy are mandatory reporters (not sure if Jawbone has his MDiv/ordination), but they are granted pastoral privilege in pastoral communication.
This.

I'm a licensed minister with the UPCI, but not yet fully ordained. Our organization passed strict by-laws after an incident in the 90s. I didn't dig out our manual to confirm, but I'm pretty sure any minister who neglects to report molestation will be immediately defrocked and reported to authorities.

To protect everyone, our local church requires that no one drives minors alone, and any adults in contact with minors undergo rigorous background checks. Our worst fear is a child being molested by anyone associated with our church.
     
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Feb 27, 2017, 06:20 PM
 
@Jawbone
I actually applaud your church's policy on the issues and I think that having such laws is a good thing. It speaks of how society has evolved on the subject.
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Feb 27, 2017, 10:11 PM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
@Jawbone
I actually applaud your church's policy on the issues and I think that having such laws is a good thing. It speaks of how society has evolved on the subject.
Still more to be done.

In searching out some more info on the subject, I've found several cases in which my organization either didn't act quickly enough, or failed to act at all -- though usually at the pastoral level, and not from our general superintendent (boss daddy) or district sups.

Our current GS is amazing. For anyone who may be interested (if any), an idea of how he's addressing issues such as the refugee debate:

A Christian Stance Towards Refugees

“Thus speaketh the Lord of hosts, saying, Execute true judgment, and shew mercy and compassions every man to his brother: And oppress not the widow, nor the fatherless, the stranger, nor the poor; and let none of you imagine evil against his brother in your heart” (Zechariah 7:9–10).

The Old Testament clearly teaches that ancient Israelites were expected to love their fellow Israelites and treat them justly (Leviticus 19:18; Micah 6:8). However, specific guidance was also given concerning the treatment of the needy, probably landless, non-Israelites who lived within Israel’s borders. These individuals are usually described in English translations of the Bible as strangers, sojourners, aliens, or foreigners. Israel was commanded not to withhold fair wages from these foreigners, and not to oppress or mistreat them. They were also challenged to actively provide for their needs (Deuteronomy 24:14–21).

Likewise, in the New Testament Jesus taught that we should love our neighbor as ourselves (Mark 12:31). In a famous parable, Jesus challenged his hearers to define “neighbor” broadly as including people of different cultural and ethnic heritages (Luke 10:30–37). Also, Jesus made it clear that the righteous will be commended for their kindness to the stranger (Matthew 25:35).

As Christians, we should embody and promote love and justice for all people regardless of their origin, nationality, ethnicity, religious affiliation or culture. We are called to carry the gospel of Jesus Christ to the whole world. We live in a world that is divided by various political, national, and ideological affiliations. However, we must not allow such divisions to interfere with our evangelistic mission or the unity of the body of Christ.

In the current situation of increasing global terror and violence, many displaced people understandably are seeking refuge in stable regions of the world. While we are all rightly concerned for our own safety and security, we must not allow our fear to motivate us to hateful speech or actions against innocent refugees. At the same time, we must work to prevent further acts of terror and violence, and this involves implementing security procedures and precautions. While there are no easy answers or solutions, Christians must remain compassionate toward those in need. In all our thoughts, words, and actions toward refugees, we should be mindful of Jesus’ words. “Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets” (Matthew 7:12).

Note: The UPCI does not hold a position on the United States’ (or any other nation’s) foreign policy or immigration policy, nor does it plan to do so in the future. Our statement is intended to provide general guidance that would apply to all refugee situations existing throughout the world, including those created by war, religious persecution, and natural disasters. The statement is intended to encourage our members to maintain respect for all humans while conducting discussions surrounding refugees. The church of Jesus Christ has and should have a different perspective from the world. We view everyone as created in God’s image and as people for whom Christ died. Furthermore, we look for opportunities to minister to souls, redeem them from sin, and reconcile them to God. As a global organization, the UPCI has missionaries and local churches working in the current situations. We want to discourage harsh or violent language that would jeopardize these evangelistic and discipleship efforts, bring reproach upon the church, or misrepresent the mission of the church of Jesus Christ.
TL;DR - Fine, have an opinion. Just don't be a jerk.

Working to rescue refugees.
     
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Feb 28, 2017, 02:36 PM
 

You guys cool with the POTUS casually deflecting any responsibility for a mission he ordered?
     
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Feb 28, 2017, 02:55 PM
 
I'm inclined to find it appalling.

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Feb 28, 2017, 04:05 PM
 
     
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Feb 28, 2017, 07:37 PM
 
The Buck Stops Somewhere Over There.
     
 
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