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You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Political/War Lounge > Everyone who thinks Meals on wheels doesn't work, raise your hand

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I think programs that feed the elderly and poor kids don't work 0 votes (0%)
I think programs that feed the elderly and poor kids do work 7 votes (100.00%)
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Everyone who thinks Meals on wheels doesn't work, raise your hand (Page 2)
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Clinically Insane
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Mar 21, 2017, 12:26 AM
 
Time = money
     
Mac Elite
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Mar 21, 2017, 12:43 AM
 
When I was poor I had more free time, just like most poor people. It didnt take much time though to calculate the cost of foods per nutritional value. Unless you have nut allergies you can pratically live on nuts. Theyre a superfood. And while they might seem expensive per the pound, when comparing them to foods with mostly water weight they are cheaper per the nutritional value. Thats just a simple example, there are all kinds of ways you can eat healthy on a budget. Responsible people are doing it everyday.
     
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Mar 21, 2017, 07:13 AM
 
People are also complex. Eating is far more bound up in state of mind, health, upbringing, education and a million other issues other than just hunger.
For just one example the fast food industry spends untold billions of pounds telling people to eat crap. And that level of advertising works. You can't blame poorly educated people for doing what the advertising industry tells them. School food is also crap (because crap IS cheap) so people don't learn from that. Supersize this, double meat that! It's not a level playing field.

Healthy eating requires not just a healthy mind and the ability to commit but support from government (local and national) and education. And many many years.
     
Clinically Insane
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Mar 21, 2017, 10:05 AM
 
Originally Posted by el chupacabra View Post
When I was poor I had more free time, just like most poor people. It didnt take much time though to calculate the cost of foods per nutritional value. Unless you have nut allergies you can pratically live on nuts. Theyre a superfood. And while they might seem expensive per the pound, when comparing them to foods with mostly water weight they are cheaper per the nutritional value. Thats just a simple example, there are all kinds of ways you can eat healthy on a budget. Responsible people are doing it everyday.
In general, the healthier a food option, the more time it takes to find and prepare. Is this even up for debate?
     
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Mar 21, 2017, 11:59 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Is direct funding getting the axe? I've only heard about the CDBGs.
Does the funding that comes from CDBGs not count?
     
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Mar 21, 2017, 12:13 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
In general, the healthier a food option, the more time it takes to find and prepare. Is this even up for debate?
I'm not certain I actually agree with that. There's often a "taste opportunity cost" involved, but not necessarily time.
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Mar 21, 2017, 02:01 PM
 
When you first walk into Walmart ( the poor's favorite store) you see the fresh fruit / Vegetable corner. Eating healthy is as fast as walking in buying vegetables, walk out. The only preparation is washing the vegetables. More than half my meals are just a bag of carrots, string beans, tomatoes, brocc, apple & peanut butter, bananas, strawberries and another bag of whatever type nuts were on sale. One handful of nuts & a glass of water is a full meal... Cheaper than poor people food, healthier than average food. And it's non perishable for a day or more. Im not the only one who does this. Lots of peeps do, so I dont know why it's so hard for the poor to figure out.

On one end I wonder how it is possible that humans can claim being the most valuable, smartestest species on the planet when they cant figure out how to do the most simplest of things that every other creature does without help; figuring out how to eat... When food it placed right in front of them...

This aint Guatemala, there the poor have to grow their own food if they want to eat.
“It’s not what you look at that matters, it’s what you see”
     
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Mar 21, 2017, 05:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by el chupacabra View Post
When you first walk into Walmart ( the poor's favorite store) you see the fresh fruit / Vegetable corner. Eating healthy is as fast as walking in buying vegetables, walk out. The only preparation is washing the vegetables. More than half my meals are just a bag of carrots, string beans, tomatoes, brocc, apple & peanut butter, bananas, strawberries and another bag of whatever type nuts were on sale. One handful of nuts & a glass of water is a full meal... Cheaper than poor people food, healthier than average food. And it's non perishable for a day or more. Im not the only one who does this. Lots of peeps do, so I dont know why it's so hard for the poor to figure out.

On one end I wonder how it is possible that humans can claim being the most valuable, smartestest species on the planet when they cant figure out how to do the most simplest of things that every other creature does without help; figuring out how to eat... When food it placed right in front of them...

This aint Guatemala, there the poor have to grow their own food if they want to eat.
You seem to have ignored nearly every part of my post on reasons why poor people may make poor food choices.
     
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Mar 21, 2017, 06:11 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doc HM View Post
Eating is far more bound up in state of mind, health, upbringing, education and a million other issues other than just hunger.
I was brought up eating bad food. I simply started working on changing my diet one day to be more healthy. My other reason was eating healthy raw veges was faster for me ( always being on the go) rather than spending hours cooking up some carb infested crud. I consider this simple stuff. One doesnt need a degree in food science to know how to eat correctly.

For just one example the fast food industry spends untold billions of pounds telling people to eat crap. And that level of advertising works. You can't blame poorly educated people for doing what the advertising industry tells them.
This argument might work decades past even though plenty of poor people have survived under the same advertising circumstances. Now days there is plenty of advertising on health foods and fitness to counter balance the fast food industry.

School food is also crap (because crap IS cheap) so people don't learn from that. Supersize this, double meat that! It's not a level playing field.
School lunches commonly serve a cookie or brownie, milkshakes, punch daily. Thats more expensive than water which would be a healthy substitute. You could cook up a vegetable based plate w chicken or pork cheaper than what most are serving now.

Healthy eating requires not just a healthy mind and the ability to commit but support from government (local and national) and education. And many many years.
In the days of the internet nobody has an excuse for not being a jeenus. I dont see why we need government to instruct us on something that is rather instinctive.
     
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Mar 22, 2017, 03:07 AM
 
Originally Posted by el chupacabra View Post
School lunches commonly serve a cookie or brownie, milkshakes, punch daily. Thats more expensive than water which would be a healthy substitute. You could cook up a vegetable based plate w chicken or pork cheaper than what most are serving now.
1) my kids school makes a real effort to have healthy options, but that doesn't mean kids will choose them or eat them. My kid does, because we've taught her to eat vegetables and fruit and balanced food. The school gets vegetables from the local community farm.

2) THANKS MICHELLE. Again, some parents are actively angry at Michelle Obama for trying to raise the school lunch standards beyond frozen pizza and juice. They say their kids won't eat the healthy stuff and it gets thrown away. They want their chicken nuggets back, and not the healthy versions.

Education starts with the parents, the same parents who resent education and higher standards.

3) I wonder if you really could make healthy cheaper. When I was a kid the food was actually prepared in the school kitchen. A lot of food now is just reheated, and purchased in bulk from food companies. This might make it seem cheaper than buying real food AND hiring real cooks, especially to cash-strapped public schools.
     
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Mar 22, 2017, 09:07 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Does the funding that comes from CDBGs not count?
I think if the funding is some minimal percentage of the CDBGs, its shamefully disingenuous to claim defunding MoW is the intent.

The knock against the block grants is it ends up in rich people's pockets. Defending that with an appeal to emotion about taking food out of senior mouths is frankly kinda disgusting.

(I'm not accusing you of being disgusting, you're just reacting the way it was intended)
     
Clinically Insane
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Mar 22, 2017, 12:20 PM
 
Originally Posted by el chupacabra View Post
When you first walk into Walmart ( the poor's favorite store) you see the fresh fruit / Vegetable corner. Eating healthy is as fast as walking in buying vegetables, walk out. The only preparation is washing the vegetables. More than half my meals are just a bag of carrots, string beans, tomatoes, brocc, apple & peanut butter, bananas, strawberries and another bag of whatever type nuts were on sale. One handful of nuts & a glass of water is a full meal... Cheaper than poor people food, healthier than average food. And it's non perishable for a day or more. Im not the only one who does this. Lots of peeps do, so I dont know why it's so hard for the poor to figure out.
The expense claim isn't computing in my head.

From a macro perspective, fruits, vegetables, and nuts cost more per calorie to produce than grains.

From a micro perspective...

A 2 liter of Coke is 840 calories.

A pound of carrots is 200 calories.

With a ripoff price of $2 for the Coke, even if one can find bargain basement prices on the carrots, four pounds of carrots aren't enough. Of course, the Coke can be found for much cheaper, and I would posit there's a practical, non-whiny difference in putting away a 2 liter versus four freakin pounds of carrots.
     
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Mar 22, 2017, 12:30 PM
 
     
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Mar 22, 2017, 01:05 PM
 
Protests he's been criticized for doing:

Quietly sitting
Feeding the elderly
     
Clinically Insane
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Mar 23, 2017, 10:55 AM
 
I don't do the footballs.

Is this guy any good as a player?
     
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Mar 23, 2017, 11:03 AM
 
At one time he was pretty good, but not anymore.
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Mar 25, 2017, 10:43 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
The expense claim isn't computing in my head.

From a macro perspective, fruits, vegetables, and nuts cost more per calorie to produce than grains.

From a micro perspective...

A 2 liter of Coke is 840 calories.

A pound of carrots is 200 calories.

With a ripoff price of $2 for the Coke, even if one can find bargain basement prices on the carrots, four pounds of carrots aren't enough. Of course, the Coke can be found for much cheaper, and I would posit there's a practical, non-whiny difference in putting away a 2 liter versus four freakin pounds of carrots.
Carrots have things coke doesnt, vitamins, and other essential plant compounds. All the calories in coke I consider useless since our bodies cant really efficiently metabolize the refined sugars in coke. It just causes an insulin spike and make you fat.

If you're going to compare 1 thing to coke, Maybe instead of comparing carrots to coke compare coke to beans, peanuts, or walnuts. I recently found a bag of walnuts for $3/ pound. All these things are very cheap and very nutritious. You cant live on coke but you can live on beans...
     
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Mar 26, 2017, 01:42 AM
 
Again, the economics of this doesn't work out.

If more people start adding walnuts (or peanuts, or whatever) to their diet as suggested, the price goes up.

A $3 bag of walnuts doesn't mean walnuts are cheap, it means demand is low or there's a supply glut in the area. A one pound bag of walnuts here is over $9 on sale.

No question the calories in carrots or walnuts are better than HFCS, but the claim was healthy foods are cheaper. They're not.

I'll repeat... fruits, vegetables, and nuts are more expensive to produce per calorie than grass.
     
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Yesterday, 10:41 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Again, the economics of this doesn't work out.
Sure it does, lets step out of our American shoes for a second and pretend that the world doesnt revolve around wheat and beef. We've already established, in threads past, that the macro economics dont work out for even the current consumption of beef in the US, or even the world. An unsustainable amount of resources go into beef production compared to the veggie diet I just proposed... Yet big poor, in the US has a beef addiction more than they have a veggie addiction... Are they really poor if they're able to afford such an expensive meat with or without food stamps & other programs? If they can be eating so much beef based fast food then they can be eating any of the vegetables I mentioned for far cheaper. No grass needed... But if you think the poor should be eating grass based diet Im fine with that. I was trying to show that there were other healthy affordable options as well.

Now of the things i mentioned, beans have already proven themselves as a nutritious staple for the poor in other countries, so there's really no economic debate needed. South of the boarder beans are produced in quantity for people who are far poorer than any American. Peanuts, another thing I mentioned, are a staple in parts of Africa. Peanuts are so cheap you find them free at many bars in the US. They're already produced in mass in the US so a run on peanuts wouldnt cause a massive price increase.

If more people start adding walnuts (or peanuts, or whatever) to their diet as suggested, the price goes up.
Yes in the short term, then once the industry adapts through the beautiful processes of capitalism the price will decrease (as long as no government is involved). You might have a point about walnuts, but I dont think the small number of poor we have in the US will hit that 1 product so hard. Im just pointing out there are a variety of options for big poor. I didnt even mention oats and eggs which are practically free.

A $3 bag of walnuts doesn't mean walnuts are cheap, it means demand is low or there's a supply glut in the area. A one pound bag of walnuts here is over $9 on sale.
A 3 lb bag of walnuts can be had for $9 at Sams or Costco. Yes sometimes the poor should be expected to wait for things to go on sale or come into season, thats natural. It's okay for the poor to not have a buffet of full access to whatever luxury goods they feel they want at the time.

No question the calories in carrots or walnuts are better than HFCS, but the claim was healthy foods are cheaper. They're not.
They are. The things i mentioned are all cheaper than prepared foods which the poor buy with their food stamps or fast food. It doesnt matter that the bun at Carls Junior was cheaper to produce than tomatoes on the macro level. That factor is washed because Carl's Junior is selling it at a premium packaged with beef as a prepared product. Many businesses target the poor for things like this, not because they're uneducated about health, but because businesses know the poor are undisciplined and their dollar follows their shallow hedonistic desires.

I'll repeat... fruits, vegetables, and nuts are more expensive to produce per calorie than grass.
Doesnt matter because the poor are already eating more expensive than the things I mentioned. Grass could actually be a healthy diet in fact, which would prove my case even further. Aside from grass grains which are nutritious in their unrefined form, the poor could be eating grass shoots, dandelions, which are practically free. In my current city low income people (mostly immigrant asians and Hispanics, not whites, poor whites are too dumb & lazy) eat invasive bird eggs, turtles, crayfish & fish from the streams. FREE food. We also have a raccoon, hog, & rabbit problem which people eat who know how to catch them.

That said it's not like the poor are out buying flour & eggs in bulk making their own bread and pasta, that takes too much time for such an undisciplined crowd. They're buying all the prepared foods you see at the store that say "Food Stamp Eligible" and fast food. Then whatever leftover money they have they're buying pies, cakes, chips, cookies, coke, pizza, (many of those are food stamp eligible actually) fast food etc.

The poor in this country are spoiled. We need to be giving them less. The poor in other countries are smarter because they're in true poverty, true poverty breeds street smarts, common sense, and communal organization to solve problems. Being poor has forced many in other countries to become educated about how to succeed in their situation. Such a pressure doesnt exist in the US. Here we're just creating a bunch of blobs that sit at home, getting free food isnt enough for them, now they need full meals prepared, now they need it delivered to them, soon they will need it spooned into their mouth because they're too lazy to pick up the spoon, we might as well just hook up robotic tubes to them so they never have to leave the couch. We can even hook up a tube that releases endorphins into their brain whenever they want to feel good. It can be automated so they dont actually have to push a button to do it.
     
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Yesterday, 11:54 AM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
You've conflated two things. Meals on wheels is for the elderly who are too housebound to fetch heavy groceries....
....but still in their faculties enough to live on their own.
You realize those 2 statements are incompatible right?

One of the hardest things about being elderly is giving up independence. My MIL recently started getting meals on wheels when she broke her ankle. Her insurance was not good enough to pay for it all, so she she paid half.
There are other solutions and overlapping programs doing the same thing. For those who truly believe in this they're being scammed by yet another government solution program where government solution programs already exist. For others it's simply a matter of how much are we going to spoil people so they dont have to leave their confort zone. On one end the family, if there is one, should be doing a lot to help take care of their parents...

An acquaintance of mine is disabled, he gets his meals taken care of through a caregiver provided by disability.
For people who were responsible in their youth, they'd have a health savings account to cover costs the insurance doesnt. Insurance should only be used for accidents, or other high dollar amount health care over $15,000-30,000. Everything else you get on a payment plan for, or you use your own health savings account.

School lunches are different. Go ahead and try to make the school lunches healthier, Chup, or should i say, MICHELLE. Red staters don't want no stinking whole grains, veggie-tables, or freshly made stuff! They hate her for forcing healthier standards on them.
Then let them rot... And exempt them from any government help in the future. Problem solved.
I dont trust MICHELLE though. Problem with democrats is they dont allow capitalism to be involved in their solutions. They prefer a highly micromanaged unsustainable government program that in the end costs everyone more. MICHELLE'S program by the way wasnt healthy, it was just what liberal government bureaucrats decided was healthy, such as mystery hipster chow, & in some cases this...

Childhood obesity went up under MICHELLE'S plan. Childhood obesity went down for kids not in public schools yet. Thanks MICHELLE for giving health food a bad rap, thanks liberals for twisting a good concept into something awful like you do with everything you touch.
     
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Yesterday, 12:36 PM
 
Originally Posted by el chupacabra View Post
The poor in this country are spoiled. We need to be giving them less. The poor in other countries are smarter because they're in true poverty, true poverty breeds street smarts, common sense, and communal organization to solve problems.
It's unfortunate that the poor in other countries haven't let their poverty solve the issues of infant mortality, life expectancy, or crime rates.
     
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Yesterday, 12:36 PM
 
Originally Posted by el chupacabra View Post
Here we're just creating a bunch of blobs that sit at home, getting free food isnt enough for them, now they need full meals prepared, now they need it delivered to them,
Does it help your point of view to look at everyone you don't like as a caricature of their true self?
     
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Yesterday, 12:51 PM
 
Originally Posted by el chupacabra View Post
For people who were responsible in their youth, they'd have a health savings account to cover costs the insurance doesnt.
And what about when it's not that black and white? What about the teenager that spent every dollar they earned supporting a disabled parent? Was that teenager irresponsible? Your wording paints a picture of every poor 40 year old as a screw up that made bad decisions. What about when they aren't?


I dont trust MICHELLE though. Problem with democrats is they dont allow capitalism to be involved in their solutions. They prefer a highly micromanaged unsustainable government program that in the end costs everyone more. MICHELLE'S program by the way wasnt healthy, it was just what liberal government bureaucrats decided was healthy, such as mystery hipster chow, & in some cases this...
Is MICHELLE an acronym? Is there a reason it's capitalized? It certainly doesn't help your credibility.

Childhood obesity went up under MICHELLE'S plan. Childhood obesity went down for kids not in public schools yet.
[citation needed]

Let's Move reaches 5 after criticism -- progress - CNNPolitics.com

But experts say the drop in early childhood obesity is a promising sign since it suggests kids may be learning healthy habits earlier. And they assert an obesity rate that isn't rising is a good sign.
How much that has to do with Let's Move -- if anything at all -- remains unknown.
"Across the whole spectrum of kids what we're seeing...is a slowing down and stabilization" of obesity rates, said Dr. Deb Galuska, the Associate Director of Science, Division of Nutrition, Physical Activity, and Obesity at the CDC.
"We don't know the reason," she said. "There's been a big emphasis on obesity issues though a variety of channels."
Childhood Obesity 5 Years After Michelle Obama's Let's Move Campaign | Time.com

As the chart below shows, the results are mixed: While childhood obesity among children between two and five years old dropped 3.7% from 2010 to 2012, the rate increased 2.1% for children 12-19 during the same period. The overall childhood obesity rate, meanwhile, remained at a constant 16.9% from 2008 through 2012.
Prevalence of obesity and severe obesity in US children, 1999-2014 - Skinner - 2016 - Obesity - Wiley Online Library

Obesity prevalence, which has increased in all age groups over the past 30 years [1], may be leveling off. There have been multiple reports of decreases in obesity in specific populations and leveling off in others [1-5]. However, these studies have focused largely on low-income young children or children from defined geographic areas. Reports using nationally representative data have shown no changes in the prevalence of overweight or obesity, but most have not examined severe obesity [1, 6]. Increasingly, severe obesity is being recognized as a distinct classification of excess weight. Originally defined as the 99th percentile BMI for age and gender [7], percentile classifications have been noted to perform poorly in statistical tests, and their use has not been recommended [8]. Flegal et al. suggested use of percentages above the 95th percentile as a better means of quantifying children at higher levels of obesity, and this was recommended for use by the American Heart Association [8, 9]. Using nationally representative data, this designation of severe obesity finds associated cardiometabolic risk factors at higher prevalence [10]. Other studies have also noted significant cardiometabolic risk, though definitions of severe obesity vary.
Do you understand how slowing the rate of obesity growth is a win? So more kids are becoming obese, but fewer than without the program.

And maybe I'm the only one that finds this odd, but you spent paragraph after paragraph harping on poor people for eating crap food, but when a (D) does the same thing, their name is capitalized and their program is worthless, hipster, and a failure?

You come across as extremely partisan and it takes away from the points you're trying to make.
     
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Yesterday, 12:53 PM
 
Originally Posted by el chupacabra View Post
& in some cases this...
You'll have the link the likely clickbait Twitter post where that picture come from, but that looks a lot like my school lunches growing up - chicken patty on a bun, applesauce, milk, and the kid probably said no thanks to the veggie option. What would you change? Why is this MICHELLE's fault?
     
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Yesterday, 01:44 PM
 
(I started the MICHELLE-YELLING. I thought I needed to emphasize the disconnect between those criticizing school lunches for not being healthy enough, also being Obama haters.)

^yes, that looks like my high school lunches growing up as well. what is the thing top left?
     
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Yesterday, 02:46 PM
 
Their free lunch card, I believe. She probably should have blurred that out.
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Yesterday, 03:09 PM
 
This blog is several years old, but I remember thinking that it was *worse* than the cafeteria foods I had as a kid, because it all came in a package and was twice as processed.

She ate 162 school lunches -- and blogged it - CNN.com
     
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Today, 04:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I think if the funding is some minimal percentage of the CDBGs, its shamefully disingenuous to claim defunding MoW is the intent.

The knock against the block grants is it ends up in rich people's pockets. Defending that with an appeal to emotion about taking food out of senior mouths is frankly kinda disgusting.

(I'm not accusing you of being disgusting, you're just reacting the way it was intended)
This is precisely the problem with the media and politics today. The sensational headline misrepresents the story at hand and intentionally ignores a rational analysis in favor of drumming up outrage and generating more clicks. IMO, we were dealing with precisely the same issue over in the "russian connection" thread in regards to that CNN article, though I admit I could not articulate this nearly as eloquently as you.
     
 
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