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jeff k Apr 16, 2012 08:43 PM
Outlook 2011 anyone happy?
I held off on upgrading from Entourage 2004, but finally gave it another go with new service pack 2.
Right away, I notice that emptying deleted item makes program crash. So I'm back to 2004. Any opinions on 2011? thanks

(I did post to Microsoft forum, no reply yet)
 
besson3c Apr 16, 2012 09:38 PM
Switch to IMAP before you switch to a new client. You should do this regardless of your experimentation with using different mail clients.
 
jeff k Apr 16, 2012 11:46 PM
Yes, as in the last thread, I have tried that and failed, it was incredibly complex and had all sorts of hairy issues. I can spell them out.
 
besson3c Apr 16, 2012 11:52 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by jeff k (Post 4163009)
Yes, as in the last thread, I have tried that and failed, it was incredibly complex and had all sorts of hairy issues. I can spell them out.

Go for it. IMAP is not really all that complex, perhaps there were some conceptual issues that were causing confusion though?
 
mduell Apr 17, 2012 02:56 PM
I'm very happy with Outlook 2011 SP2.
 
Atheist Apr 17, 2012 03:06 PM
I finally ditched Apple's Mail app and went to Outlook 2011. I'm totally happy with it.

Apple's Exchange integration worked well under Snow Leopard but it's been complete crap with Lion. Not sure what they did to mess it up.
 
Art Vandelay Apr 17, 2012 04:09 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by Atheist (Post 4163164)
Apple's Exchange integration worked well under Snow Leopard but it's been complete crap with Lion. Not sure what they did to mess it up.
Zero problems here. I find it better in Lion than it was in SL.
 
Atheist Apr 17, 2012 04:53 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by Art Vandelay (Post 4163179)
Zero problems here. I find it better in Lion than it was in SL.
What version of Exchange? My company uses Exchange 2007 w/ the Microsoft Online Services.

I had identical issues on 2 machines. My desktop Hackintosh and my MacBook Air.

- Mail would frequently stop receiving inbound messages. I would have to force quite Mail and reopen.

- My inbox has around 10000 messages and it was frequently out of sync (unrelated to issue 1)

- With Snow Leopard I was able to schedule meetings in iCal and could see others schedules. Totally busted under Mail on Lion. Would never work. Shared calendars is busted in other ways under iCal as well. For instance when you configure iCal to view other peoples calendars you suddenly start receiving all of their meeting invitations.
 
Cold Warrior Apr 17, 2012 05:38 PM
Outlook 2011 sp2, I'm pleased with it. I have it loaded with two imap accounts and one exchange 2010 account, they all work great in Outlook.
 
mduell Apr 17, 2012 06:09 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by Atheist (Post 4163164)
Apple's Exchange integration worked well under Snow Leopard but it's been complete crap with Lion. Not sure what they did to mess it up.
Contacts worked well, mail was OK, calendar was a disaster.
 
jeff k Apr 17, 2012 06:58 PM
Great comments everyone!

Ok: for all with Outlook 2011. When you do an "empty deleted item", does the program crash? I get an absolute 100% crash with red exclamations point. Dealbreaker, I had to go running back to Entourage 2004.

What do you use Exchange for? is that for working on files live on different machines?

I was going to do electronic calendar for first time with 2011's calendar, but now what? ical is good/ better than Outlooks calendar? thanks!
 
jmiddel Apr 17, 2012 09:45 PM
Have been using Entourage since Office 2011 came, nary a problem. deleted messages get deleted at noon daily. Actually, Outlook/Entourage is the only MS program that has always worked flawlessly for me, Word and Excel simply suck.
 
mduell Apr 17, 2012 11:03 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by jeff k (Post 4163239)
Ok: for all with Outlook 2011. When you do an "empty deleted item", does the program crash? I get an absolute 100% crash with red exclamations point. Dealbreaker, I had to go running back to Entourage 2004.
I don't empty deleted items.

Quote, Originally Posted by jeff k (Post 4163239)
What do you use Exchange for? is that for working on files live on different machines?
Exchange is server software for hosting email/calendar/contacts accounts.

Quote, Originally Posted by jeff k (Post 4163239)
I was going to do electronic calendar for first time with 2011's calendar, but now what? ical is good/ better than Outlooks calendar? thanks!
Outlook has one of the best calendars out there (especially if your organization uses Exchange) for functionality/reliability, but iCal is prettier (but a pain to use and loses events or forgets to remind you).
 
Atheist Apr 18, 2012 07:24 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by jeff k (Post 4163239)
Great comments everyone!

Ok: for all with Outlook 2011. When you do an "empty deleted item", does the program crash? I get an absolute 100% crash with red exclamations point. Dealbreaker, I had to go running back to Entourage 2004.
I empty deleted items all the time. I just did so now with about 350 emails in the Deleted Items folder. No issues whatsoever. I suspect you imported your email from Entourage to Outlook and there is some sort of data corruption in your Deleted Items folder.

Quote
What do you use Exchange for? is that for working on files live on different machines?
Exchange is Microsoft's mail/contact/calendar server software. It is used extensively in the business world. It's really the only reason I'm using Outlook (my company email is hosted on an Exchange server). I'm perfectly happy using Apple's apps for my personal email with IMAP. With Exchange server your data (email/contact/calendar) is stored on the server and downloaded to your local computer (similar to IMAP). That way you don't have to worry about backing up your data and you have access to your mail from any computer.

Quote
I was going to do electronic calendar for first time with 2011's calendar, but now what? ical is good/ better than Outlooks calendar? thanks!
I use iCal with my personal iCloud email and think it works just fine. I've never had the issues that mduell reported.
 
jeff k Apr 18, 2012 12:09 PM
thanks Guys, well I use Entourage and maybe in future will switch to Outlook 2011 for my email, contacts and maybe calendar. So no need for Exchange for me then? I'm self employed.

What should I do about deleted items folder? just empty it out before trying the next import? Compact database, rebuild database? I don't think one can delete and remake that folder.

Crazy weird thing, as you know everything has to work great for email, very scary thing upgrading. In fact, I don't recognize or feel comfortable with the Outlook 2011 interface at all after being on 2004 for 7 years. The feel and look and functionality are quite different. I'm so comfortable with 2004. Maybe I should not bother moving to 2011? opinions? again, just self employed one man band.

I cloud: that needs Lion? I'm on Snow Leopard, so cannot sync ical -- two computers unless you have Lion? Same thing with Outlook 2011 calendar? Need Lion to sync 2 computers? Atheist, you prefer ical over Outlook Calander? I agree. ical does look nicer, why is that? because of Apple design. but if it does not work well then moot.
 
mduell Apr 18, 2012 06:28 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by jeff k (Post 4163373)
thanks Guys, well I use Entourage and maybe in future will switch to Outlook 2011 for my email, contacts and maybe calendar. So no need for Exchange for me then? I'm self employed.
You can use existing IMAP accounts (or, *sigh*, POP) just fine in Outlook. If you want other services (like calendar and contacts sync with computers and phones) you may consider a hosted exchange account. They're about $10/mo/user.

Quote, Originally Posted by jeff k (Post 4163373)
I cloud: that needs Lion? I'm on Snow Leopard, so cannot sync ical -- two computers unless you have Lion? Same thing with Outlook 2011 calendar? Need Lion to sync 2 computers? Atheist, you prefer ical over Outlook Calander? I agree. ical does look nicer, why is that? because of Apple design. but if it does not work well then moot.
With Outlook and a hosted Exchange account you'd have calendar sync across all your devices.
 
cgc Apr 18, 2012 06:44 PM
Outlook 2011 (sp2) is very good. If you work for a big company you may be able to get Office 2011 for next to nothing (check for a "Home Use Program").
 
jeff k Apr 18, 2012 07:38 PM
I'm self employed, I already bought Office 2011, but am just having technical issues with it.

M:

"you may consider a hosted exchange account."

Via out other thread ...... what do you mean? I don't mind $10 month at all -- specifically per our discussion about Google's icould (what name for that?), is there a paid option that is better than Google for synching everything? I assumed you were saying Google is better than Apple's icloud and perhaps the best thing out there..? I always go with the best generally speaking.
 
mduell Apr 19, 2012 06:48 PM
A number of companies will host an Exchange (email, calendar, contacts) account for you... Intermedia, Microsoft themselves, etc. As a user it's a great platform (admining it is awful).

iCloud is an Apple product name. Google calls it Google Calendar.
 
jeff k Apr 19, 2012 07:39 PM
Oh, M, thanks, so I should just fork out $10 a month (not huge deal), and get my own Exchange. I keep thinking of the word Exchange means you work for a company! (and they have provided you with Office)/

what did you mean: (did not understand, great or awful?)

"As a user it's a great platform (admining it is awful)."
 
jeff k Apr 19, 2012 07:42 PM
BTW, I don't have a smart phone yet, but if I get an iphone one day, could you have the Office 2011 Outlook, Calender and email, on it syncing correctly with the desktop at home?
 
olePigeon Apr 19, 2012 09:35 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by cgc (Post 4163485)
Outlook 2011 (sp2) is very good. If you work for a big company you may be able to get Office 2011 for next to nothing (check for a "Home Use Program").
$15. We have it at my work. :)
 
mduell Apr 19, 2012 09:54 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by jeff k (Post 4163793)
Oh, M, thanks, so I should just fork out $10 a month (not huge deal), and get my own Exchange. I keep thinking of the word Exchange means you work for a company! (and they have provided you with Office)/

what did you mean: (did not understand, great or awful?)

"As a user it's a great platform (admining it is awful)."
Microsoft's hosted Exchange is now $4/mo, for a single user without a blackberry I'd go with them.

As a user, the Exchange (server) + Outlook (client) combo is great. As a server administrator, Exchange is awful to run/maintain; that's a big part of the reason why hosted Exchange, where someone else has to do the administration, has become popular. Even better to get the bastards who wrote it to also run it for you.

Quote, Originally Posted by jeff k (Post 4163794)
BTW, I don't have a smart phone yet, but if I get an iphone one day, could you have the Office 2011 Outlook, Calender and email, on it syncing correctly with the desktop at home?
Yes, Exchange has a feature called ActiveSync which is used for mobile devices (iPhone, Android, Windows Phone 7) to connect to Exchange for full push email/calendar/contacts.
 
olePigeon Apr 19, 2012 10:22 PM
Say goodbye to inline attachments. Also, get ready to occasionally receive emails that are cut off prematurely because someone put in an inline attachment, resulting in you having to email them back to resend the email with the attachment.

I hate Exchange.

Outlook is OK, but it's slow. I still prefer Mail.
 
jeff k Apr 19, 2012 10:40 PM
M, thanks, so Active Sync is an app for the iphone which re-creates Outlook 2011 somehow on your iphone and you can email with it, and do you the outlook calendar with it?

I looked up Intermedia, I guess they are a bit more money/ with a bit better customer/ tech support than Microsoft hosted exchange?

Ol - did not understand inline attachment. With Entourage, I just add an attachment, I drag it in or click and navigate -- actually I never drag attachments into the body of the text email, is that what you meant?

BTW on that subject it "seems" that 2011 Outlook as opposed to Entourage 2004 you cannot drag attachments into the attachment box? Bummer if that is true........is that correct?
 
mduell Apr 20, 2012 12:26 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by olePigeon (Post 4163838)
Say goodbye to inline attachments. Also, get ready to occasionally receive emails that are cut off prematurely because someone put in an inline attachment, resulting in you having to email them back to resend the email with the attachment.

I hate Exchange.
Huh, what's this FUD? Inline attachments work fine in both Outlook 2010 and Outlook 2011 with Exchange 2010.

Quote, Originally Posted by jeff k (Post 4163842)
M, thanks, so Active Sync is an app for the iphone which re-creates Outlook 2011 somehow on your iphone and you can email with it, and do you the outlook calendar with it?

I looked up Intermedia, I guess they are a bit more money/ with a bit better customer/ tech support than Microsoft hosted exchange?

Ol - did not understand inline attachment. With Entourage, I just add an attachment, I drag it in or click and navigate -- actually I never drag attachments into the body of the text email, is that what you meant?

BTW on that subject it "seems" that 2011 Outlook as opposed to Entourage 2004 you cannot drag attachments into the attachment box? Bummer if that is true........is that correct?
ActiveSync isn't an app, it's an Exchange feature that works with the native Mail/Calendar/Contacts apps on iPhone.

Yes, Intermedia has a better SLA and probably better support; IIRC they start at 3 accounts minimum.

Disregard the pigeon's rant about inline attachments, it's outdated or FUD or something.

In Outlook 2011 you can drag any attachment over the To/Cc/Subject or body areas to attach. If you drop an inline-capable image format (gif, jpg, png, tiff, probably others) over the body of an HTML email it will insert inline at that point.
 
jeff k Apr 20, 2012 12:24 PM
thanks M.
What is SLA?

I guess I'll figure this stuff out when I join, really have no idea how they sync the iphone, laptop with the desktop...kind of amazing. How do they do that?

Ah, it creates the attachment field after you drag it in, cool! I'm going to try 2011 in few days when I have fresh deleted items again....
 
mduell Apr 20, 2012 02:13 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by jeff k (Post 4163961)
What is SLA?
Service-level agreement, they amount of uptime they have to maintain. Usually the penalties are capped at your monthly payment, so they're not terribly useful for this sort of thing, but they reflect the providers confidence they can offer the service. MS is 99.9% which is 8 hours of downtime a year, vs Intermedia is 99.999% which is 5 minutes of downtime a year.

Quote, Originally Posted by jeff k (Post 4163961)
I guess I'll figure this stuff out when I join, really have no idea how they sync the iphone, laptop with the desktop...kind of amazing. How do they do that?
Mostly magic.
 
jeff k Apr 20, 2012 03:05 PM
thanks M, would you recommend Intermedia for the beginner, as they have better phone support than anyone?
 
mduell Apr 20, 2012 04:23 PM
I'd go with the MS option, I doubt you'll need much support as a user of a hosted service.

Intermedia isn't bad, but they're not exceptional, and I think they have a 3 account minimum.
 
olePigeon Apr 20, 2012 05:16 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by mduell (Post 4163858)
Huh, what's this FUD? Inline attachments work fine in both Outlook 2010 and Outlook 2011 with Exchange 2010.
Oh, good. Only took them 40 years. Nice to see they've finally come around. We're still on Exchange 2007, which does not support inline attachments. I didn't have much faith in Microsoft ever adding support for it as per their staunch stance against inline attachments.

You may continue.
 
jeff k Apr 20, 2012 09:53 PM
thanks Guys, will report back.... I was just thinking in the beginning phone support would be nice...
 
angelmb Apr 21, 2012 02:59 AM
It seems there is a bug within the SP2 update that leads to a corrupted database in Outlook.

Office for Mac 2011 SP2 Database Upgrade Workaround | Office For Mac

Update on Office for Mac 2011 SP2 | Office For Mac

Slightly more complicated workaround (shudders)
Outlook 2011 start error: "Please upgrade the Office database"
 
jeff k Apr 21, 2012 12:58 PM
Well, I deleted my identity and went back to Entourage 2004. Was going to try again before hearing this news. What all recommend? Should I wait for next service pack or upgrade? What the deal with 2011. A year out it's still not considered a stable release.
 
besson3c Apr 21, 2012 01:05 PM
Outlook still does the stuff-your-entire-mailbox-into-a-database thing, huh?

I'd still recommend IMAP plus Mail/Postbox/Thunderbird, all of which store their offline cache messages as individual files.
 
jeff k Apr 21, 2012 01:48 PM
Besson, but I am still POP, and the news is that service pack 2 is unstable especially with POP. Did I mention Verizon does not even support imap?

I do want to move over to imap, but I need a stable software to start the process. and I still have a few verizon accounts.
 
jmiddel Apr 21, 2012 03:20 PM
I still have POP, and the latest SP, and again, all is stable here.
 
jeff k Apr 21, 2012 05:35 PM
What is SP?
 
angelmb Apr 22, 2012 03:26 AM
"Service Pack", the Office 2011 update that Microsoft pulled due to some Outlook bug.
 
jeff k Apr 22, 2012 04:37 PM
I'm told that it is not still stable for POP. Is this odd, one year out for a software to not be stable?
 
besson3c Apr 22, 2012 04:40 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by jeff k (Post 4164286)
I'm told that it is not still stable for POP. Is this odd, one year out for a software to not be stable?

Yes, but it is the Mac division of Microsoft we are talking about here, and it is an obsolete protocol.
 
jeff k Apr 22, 2012 04:48 PM
Besson, gotta get off POP. The service pack 2 is supposedly unstable and bad regardless of POP. Is this odd a software has these issues so long after beta is over?
 
jeff k Apr 22, 2012 04:49 PM
BTW if it's so obsolete then why does not Verizon support imap for it's millions of users?
 
besson3c Apr 22, 2012 05:00 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by jeff k (Post 4164289)
Besson, gotta get off POP. The service pack 2 is supposedly unstable and bad regardless of POP. Is this odd a software has these issues so long after beta is over?

In this case, no.

As you may know by now, one of the primary differences between IMAP and POP is that with POP all of your mail is stored on your local computer, putting the responsibility of backups squarely on your shoulders. Microsoft has always gone with having a single database store the entire mail store with all of their mail applications on both platforms, regardless of whether POP or IMAP is used. The difference here though, is that with IMAP having some local corruption is just corruption to a local cache which can be regenerated. When there is corruption to a POP mail store, you are completely hosed.

It is for this reason that I'd never, ever, ever recommend a Microsoft product with POP.

That being said, as has been said, you really should switch to IMAP anyway so that your mail is safe from local hard drive corruption and accessible from wherever. Outlook + IMAP is probably fine, Outlook + Exchange is even more likely to be fine.
 
besson3c Apr 22, 2012 05:01 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by jeff k (Post 4164290)
BTW if it's so obsolete then why does not Verizon support imap for it's millions of users?
Lower storage costs, they are being cheap.

Why use Verizon for your email?
 
jeff k Apr 22, 2012 05:40 PM
thanks Beeson, I plan on moving to imap and exchange.

I have 4-5 email account with Verizon for various things. I suppose I could wean those off somewhere else.

So what do you recommend I do?

I have a dozen email accounts all POP right now. I'm told SP 2 is still unstable especially with POP. Your recommendation?
 
besson3c Apr 22, 2012 06:20 PM
- If you don't transmit any sensitive information via email, are comfortable with the privacy ramifications, and don't need the integrated calendaring that Outlook provides in addition to its other groupware features (which you probably don't if you work solo) and iCloud is not cutting it, OR, the Exchange groupware functionality is not worth it's price, Gmail/IMAP + Mail/Postbox/Thunderbird. You can optionally get your own domain (you@youremail.com) and have Google host this for you. The advantage of your own domain is that you'll have a permanent email address that won't change as you switch providers, it's yours for as long as you keep your domain registration active.

- If you need or want the Exchange groupware stuff, I guess Outlook or Mail + Exchange

- If you don't need a groupware solution and have privacy issues with GMail, get your own domain (you@youraddress.com) and get your IMAP mail through a web host of your choice.
 
jeff k Apr 22, 2012 07:40 PM
B

I'm fired up to do imap & Exchange, again:

So what do you recommend I do? In light of these crazy issues with Outlook 2011? Should I wait for next major version to come out?
 
besson3c Apr 22, 2012 08:31 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by jeff k (Post 4164320)
B

I'm fired up to do imap & Exchange, again:

So what do you recommend I do? In light of these crazy issues with Outlook 2011? Should I wait for next major version to come out?

Exchange is not IMAP though, although it's far more similar to IMAP than it is to POP, Exchange uses its own protocol called (I believe) Exchange Web Services.

Microsoft has pulled this bad update: Update on Office for Mac 2011 SP2 | Office For Mac

You won't have this problem unless you go out of your way to download the update that is no longer publicly available.
 
besson3c Apr 22, 2012 08:32 PM
That being said, maybe I haven't been following this thread closely enough, but I don't really understand what compels you to use Exchange in the first place. I'm not saying it's a bad idea necessarily, but I missed the rationale and research behind this willingness to commit to this decision.
 
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