View Full Version : Why are we the underdogs?

Aug 7, 2000, 07:09 AM
I have always wondered why the MacOS and the Macintosh computer are always looked down upon by PC users.

Linux/BeOS users are not looked down upon by ignorant PC users the same way that a MacOS user is. I get the "Oh you use a mac...HA HA HA HA HA!!!" Every day. Im the laughing stock of all my computer literate friends.

Why can't people see the simple elegance and beauty of the Macintosh system? Apple makes the OS and the hardware. They work together to provide the best computer experiance possible.

We KNOW that our OS is better. We KNOW that our G4 processor is more advanced and simple than the behemoth Athalon. But why does the rest of the world turn a blind eye and laugh at the Macintosh?

Is the OS so simple to use that it scares people? Is it to stable and beautifull (compared to windows people...MacOS looks like a work of art) to seem real? Does it seem "to good to be true"?

I get the "your mac is just a toy...good for internet and thats about it..." Then I boot up Q3A and blow his/her mind and then the shrug it off and say, "Well it looks better on a PC..."

Why, why are we the underdogs? Microsoft stole so much of their GUI from Apple. Why? That is all I ask. Why? What motivates people to be so ignorant?

I am done ranting for the evening. Thank you.

Aug 7, 2000, 07:50 AM
I share the same ignorance everyday. I go to my friend's apartment to leech off his cable modem everyday, and I share it with 5 PC users. Too bad that my PowerBook kicks the **** out of all of their P3s and Athlons. I beat them at Quake 3, my ICQ loads 50x faster than theirs, and I'm not trying to struggle with a crappy GUI (like windows).

But 2 out of the 5 PC users have decided to buy whatever the next PowerBook will be, and equip it with OS X. Thats just goes to prove that Mac users never switch to PCs, and PC users will all eventually realize that thier OS is crap compared to the Mac OS.


Aug 7, 2000, 10:35 AM
Once upon a time I USED to get a chuckle or two for admiting to using a Mac. Not anymore, nope, and it's because of the way I handle my conversations when on the topic of computers that the OPPOSITE now happens.
You guys should try this, it works for me:
First thing I try to do is NOT mention that I use a Mac, at least not until we talk about the painful flaws about the other guys PC. Of course he will agree with you, he doesn't know your using a Mac, yet. Everytime he tells you about a kink in his PC, or a problem he has trouble with and is just confused, just nod your head as if you had something better. Sooner or later your hopeless PC buddy will become so intrigued by you seeming completely unaffected by similar problems, he will ask you "why, what do you use?".
At this point I usually respond with "Well I sure as hell don't use Windows" and chuckle as if windows were the rotting, moldy, bread someone actually paid money for.
If all this done correctly, your PC ruined friend will be waiting for you to respond to his question as if you had found the holy grail. Then of course you tell him you have a Mac a relate that not one of his pathetic problems occured or ever will occur on your Mac. Quickly mention how much you get done on your Mac, and if you manage to hit the nail on the head, you might mention one or two things he has no clue as to how to pull off on his PC. At this point your in the gold. He'll probably ask you "how do you do that?". If possible just reply, "It's probably hella retardedly complicated using Windows", but I could show you if you had a Mac.

Aug 7, 2000, 12:19 PM
To the ranter :

1)Apple did not invent the GUI. Xerox did. Apple copied it from them, and then Microsoft took it from Apple.

2)Apple is not the only innovator in the computer industory. there were computers way before Apple was founded.....Apple and everyone other computer company are standing on the shoulders of giants.

3)True, to say that the iMac is only an internet machine is an understatement, as you illustrated with Quake 3 Arena....Now only if you could do that with Half-Life or Flight Simulator 2000.

4)Apple incorporates a lot of the technologies that Intels geniuses came up with, example...USB and AGP.

5)The G4 maybe the cleanest and coolest processor around, but to the end user raw performance is what matters. The Athlon is the only competetor to the Intel world, and AMD gets it. with literally twice the bus speed to that of a G4 and now twice the clock-speed, having a 128-bit processor throughput isnt the only thing that increases performance.

6)By adding different types of instruction-sets such as Alti-vec, has one problem. Users have to wait for Apps that thake advantage of them. Whereas , if you increase the bus speed/clock speed/RAM speed, you increase the over all performance.

7)All other computer companies auther than Apple do not rely on hardware design and propoganda against competors to make their profits.to compare a G4 with a super computer is technically correct....a supercomputer from the early '80s.(Cray II)

8)Apple makes it seems as if there is some enemy in the Computer market. But guess what, there isnt.

9) Why do people take Linux/Unix more seriously ? because the hard core computer programmers who like to tweek and customize their system, like to know that they can do just that. The macOS is just not as customizable as Windows/Linux/Unix....why? because of its small consumer base, and because that consumer base is just that...consumers, not as many programmers as Windows/Linux/Unix does.

Aug 7, 2000, 01:10 PM
WTF is with your user name?
Actually come to think of it, it makes sense, as I guess you're favourite pastime must be Lancing your one eyed dragon (although it's probably more akin to a gecko lizard).
If you like PC's & don't like MAC's (did someone drop a MAC/you, on your head as a child or something? Cause if they did, thank them for me!)
Go and do something useful on your PC instead of making inflamatory posts that are designed to annoy & upset people, as well as attract attention to yourself (how old are you?) & all for like what reason looser, it's just a computer and were glad someone as closeminded as you doesn't like/use(?) the MAC platform, if anything it vindicates us using MAC's even more.
BTW I have occasionally flirted with the idea of getting a Wintel because of my Degree, but you've put me off the idea once & for all.
I really do feel sorry for you, because apart from being very sad & very bitter, at the end of the day it's just a computer, loosen up!
This is a forum for USERS of the Mac platform not loosers, (& if you do use a Mac; with your attitude; god know's what planet your on!) But ultimately I feel sorry for you because when "X" comes out, your whole supposed purpose in life will no longer exist, but I guess it's to much hope that you will cease to exist too (although I'm fairly sure no ones really bothered either way).

P.S my iMac's perfect at all I need & want it to do, so what have you got to say about that?

P.P.S You should see what I'm like when I REALLY don't like someone.

[This message has been edited by roders (edited 08-07-2000).]

Aug 7, 2000, 01:30 PM
WoW Roders! Calm down. If you do a search in the fora you'll see that Dragonlance hasn't posted 345+ messages that were negative about the macs.

He is simply stating some facts.

As the hampster says in Dr. Do-little, "Just Chiiiiiiill".

Aug 7, 2000, 01:45 PM
Um, bizzare, your ICQ is also 5x less bloated in code and has 10x less useful features than the PC ICQ (which makes up the 50x difference), unless of course, you use Gerry's, which then is 10x less bloated in code and 1.5x less useful features. (if multi-person chat, voice chat works, then it's almost pefect)

1) Xerox invented the GUI, Apple bought it from them, popularized it. M$ stole it from Apple, and profitted from it.

2) How many schools (especially 2ndary) had computers before AppleII? and what's wrong with standing on the shoulder of giants?

3) I still think iMac is over-priced and over hyped, so I'm not going to defend that.

4) Apple also invented the mouse and Firewire. If it wasn't for Firewire and popularization of USB by Apple, there would be no USB2.0, and although the technology exist, the PC industry would still be very much stuck on PS2, serial, parallel, IDE, and all sort of other VERY slow interfaces. Apple doesn't have to be the inventors of everything, they just have to be innovator who is bold enough to force people to accepte new technology, which may not be good for the consumers in the short run, but definitely better for the industry and consumers in the long run.

5) AMD gets it, and get it well, and they are getting their recognition. DDR bus is faster, but not literally 2x as fast, due to timing issues of code execution; and since it still suffers from slow RAM (or DDR RAM being too expensive), the speed difference is noticeable, but not something that'll kill Apple.
Also keep in mind that I do agree that the G4 is lagging significantly now in speed/aka raw power...and probably will in the next 2 development cycles...

6) True. However, Apple aren't the only one who did such. Remember MMX and currently, 3DNow? Personally, I think Altivec should be a nice suppliment to the G4 chip, like the icing on the cake. Instead, its being marketed as the cake, which is rather ridiculous...But I guess they have no choice until a much improved G4+ comes out.

7) Since the introduction of iMac, you can't deny that the PCs changed their overall case design as well. This includes the iMac rip-off, the iPaq, and whatever else. If you say companies doesn't market HW design, what do you call marketing of MMX by Intel about 2 years ago? They are now over it because AMD is providing tight competition. Until someone provide competition with Motorola, Apple will not really get it...IBM isn't really a competitor as much as another contractor, unfortunately...
As for the supercomputer of the 90s, its simply Beowulf clusters and 2,000+ Alpha chips in AMP, nothing spetacular...

8) The enemy is Windows, who's holding the computer industry back, due to horribly implimented OS and more-often-than-not crappy software. Moore's law is countered by Gate's law, which states something like as computer hardware gets faster and better, software will get more bloated and consume more resources, and implemented more poorly. Microsoft has lived up to Gate's law quite well, and I don't think there can be any argument there. Apple's bloating a bit with Aqua too, unfortunately...but not as much as M$ (who actually did something half-right with Win2k)...

9) *nix has a smaller yet consumer base than the Macintosh. They have more programmers due to Open Source. With OS X based on Mach and FreeBSD, and NextStep being a good DE, we should see some Linux developers comming to the Mac, 'cuz believe it or not, people like to earn Money. As for Windows, which is what I'm currently using at work...all the Visual* are crap, and who knows 'bout C#, chances are, M$ did a lame job on that too. But yeah, they got more developers on a crappier platform 'cuz there's more money to be earned...
*nix will not be a consumer OS in the forseeable future, just like MacOS will not penetrate much into the Server market anytime soon, contratary to propaganda of OSX client and OSX server's ability to "revolutionize" things...so such comparison isn't very valid to begin with.

Lastly, roders, if you don't agree with someone's post, don't post personal attacks. If you think he's wrong, provide some evidence, and have a technical argument instead of a personal one. Else this place will turn out to be something like MacCentral or worse...

Aug 7, 2000, 02:05 PM
Evangellydonut, thank you so much for the informative post, i really appreciate it. finally someone whoes objective rather than opinionated.
i agree with many of your points, especially on hardware design and OSXs open source strategy.
thanks for your post, to be honest i was expecting a good many posts similar to roders post, was getting used to it in here. http://forums.macnn.com/cgi-bin/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by Dragonlance (edited 08-07-2000).]

Aug 7, 2000, 02:14 PM
hehe, I sure hope that I have my hardware part straight, being an EE major 'n all http://forums.macnn.com/cgi-bin/wink.gif If not, definitely let me know!

Oh yeah, something just occurred to me...I think my school started the Beowulf cluster thingy a few years back, when NASA asked JPL to come up with a supercomputer under US$100,000 or something (or maybe I missed a zero)...there was a half-page article in Science magazine.

Aug 7, 2000, 05:00 PM
and dragonlance is always making the completely empty threat to leave and not come back *sigh*

i know this kid's history on these fora completely, he used to be a "Mac ROOLS!" type of kid and then went over to the darkside due to some disappointment or another... and he has roused the ire of many a MacNN'er including myself...

'nuff said http://forums.macnn.com/cgi-bin/wink.gif

[This message has been edited by wlonh (edited 08-07-2000).]

Anthony the PC lover
Aug 7, 2000, 05:31 PM
Macs are great and all, but sometimes PC's are better in some ways. It upsets me that the only people who come in here to argue on the side of PC's are complete idiots, (including myself). It makes PC's look really bad, and I get ashamed to be called a PC lover.

Boo hoo.

Aug 7, 2000, 05:37 PM
but we love ya Anthony because you are so good-natured...

i mean that... to my mind, you are the best kind of PC user... and you crack me up


Anthony the PC lover
Aug 7, 2000, 05:59 PM
Aw shucks, Lon, you know just how make this little ol' PC lover blush http://forums.macnn.com/cgi-bin/redface.gif

Aug 7, 2000, 06:07 PM
What I have never been able to understand, is why DragonLance feels it necessary to keep going with this. Why can't he just accept that we like our machines, we like our OS, and give the rest a break. I never feel it necessary to tell my PC using friends all the reasons why Macs are better. What ever works for them is just ducky with me. I will say again, one more time. I am not a real big gamer. I don't write code. I'm not a tech profesional. I don't care who invented the GUI, I just want a decent looking one. Why do I continually have to defend my choices in the face of arguments that don't apply to me? I like what I have, I will continue to use what I have, and anyone that doesn't like it can kiss me ass. Thank you for your time.

"We are the crazy ones, rebels, misfits, troublemakers, round pegs in square holes. Ones who see things differently. We are Mac users, and we won't be ignored!"

Aug 7, 2000, 06:07 PM

This may sound somewhat abstract but true none the less. Microsoft, IBM, Intel, Apple, AMD, Motorola, HP, etc etc all fall into the catagory of technology pushers in the world we live. All of these entities have flaws and they all have good points as well.

Intel may have invented USB which was good, but Intel lacked something and failed to get it out into the consumer market effectively. This is an example of something that alot of the big players in the tech industry lack.

This is where up to this point, I have seen Apple as a company fill in a need amongst this circle of 'friends'. This need is character, and the ability to use it's character to push out new technology into the consumer market effectively. Apple has this character and a really outstanding image amongst hundreds of thousands who pay attention.

This character is not something Intel or MS can copy and ship in a box, We've seen that with a lot of these Astro's and iMac clones now back to the drawing board. It's something that exists in the structure of Apple as a company. It's reflected to it's consumers and the very people that occupy these forums and others like it.

You can spout out all the tech jargon statistics. Rant about all that specs, stats, and history that you want, but there isn't a single company amongst all of these that has and can do, effectively, what Apple has. That is create inspiration, and if you want to hear those words from Bill Gates' mouth e-mail me, I have it in Quicktime format, video & audio. http://forums.macnn.com/cgi-bin/wink.gif

Aug 7, 2000, 06:10 PM
http://forums.macnn.com/cgi-bin/eek.gif I thought you fled the country there for a sec Think Insane.

Aug 7, 2000, 06:47 PM
M$ is a technology pusher? http://forums.macnn.com/cgi-bin/eek.gif they are more of a technology's back-stabber...with the possible exception of the MBU. (Forgot to mention...thus far, the only place where M$ deserves credit is in the advancement of the Mouse. The scroll wheel and optical)

I haven't been around long, nor do I really care 'bout how "people change over time" here at an internet forum. The way I see it, it's necessary to have a few devil's advocate who are willing to look at things from different perspective. Anthony has done that to some extend; I have, with my 2 threads, 1st in G4 forum 'bout the Mhz issue and 2nd entitled "drooling over *gasp* P4", and maybe a few minor points here and there. Dragonlance may have gone from the advocate to the devil himself, but we need people like him to keep us in a constant check as to the current state of the Mac compared to the rest of the PC industry.
I was once disillusioned about Communism, just like I was once disillusioned about Macs being the best there is in every aspect. After some poli-sci classes, I'm no longer disillusioned about Communism, and admit that it's too idealistic to be the least bit practical; but I still defend PRChina and their implementation whenever I hear people trash-talking it, while acknowledging that there are changes that need to be made. Similarly, I had always thought Macs were the greatest thing out there, until the recent speed fiasco that's still an unsolved problem. Since then, I've decided to read up on what's happening in the rest of the industry, read a lot of Arstechnica, read rumors/specs on the latest Intel, AMD, Motorola, Transmetta's offerings, and had a few classes on basic EE. In the past year, I've become much more objective, and is rather disappointed with the current state of Apple's hardware, and have yet to get into the hype regarding OS X. That doesn't mean my goals has shifted from being an engineer for the G* chip after graduation or get a Ph.D to being an Intel designer (although AMD doesn't look all that bad of a choice, nor does Transmeta), but simply, to follow a Chinese saying of "know thy self, know thy competition, only then will you be always victorious." To me, Apple is no longer "absolutely superior" than PCs, especially in hardware, and I think many of you agree with me.

Flame me if you must, heck, feel free to do so.

Think of Dragonlance as a "misfit" or the "square pegs in the round whole" or however that Apple commercial went...the last thing we need is a bunch of lemmings worshipping Jobs as the savior of the world (though he did save Apple).

(lastly, I don't think much of the iMacs, but have bought 2 for my father's new company, and possibly another one by Christmas, and my opinion stands.)

[This message has been edited by Evangellydonut (edited 08-07-2000).]

Aug 7, 2000, 07:01 PM
for the most part i agree with you gelly, and i have never said (and you will not find a post of mine that does say) that all things Apple are best of the best... no, rather there is no computer that suits me better than a Mac and MacOS and that is unmistakably true, and if i had to use a wintel box i'd not use a computer at all... and i have said that repeatedly

Luddite that i am (not) http://forums.macnn.com/cgi-bin/biggrin.gif

and yes, to my mind communism is a noble and doomed thing, predicated as it is (in my opinion) on the perfectibility of mankind...

not gonna happen! http://forums.macnn.com/cgi-bin/wink.gif

there are flavors of socialism out there that may or may not be preferable to other gov'ts, i will not speak to that...

one more thing... think what you want and will, i am nobody's drone... i have my serious misgivings about Apple, etc., especially of late when reading various scary bits of info at many different Mac-centric websites... no, i do not need a kid like dragondunce to make me take heed of anything whatsoever! i do heed the many and various times he has threatened to leave these environs and not return, and he has made that threat due to his unwelcome reception afforded him by more than a few members of these fora!

[This message has been edited by wlonh (edited 08-07-2000).]

Aug 7, 2000, 08:15 PM
Will you all get a grip!
Go outside. See the setting sun? Now take a deep breath. Good. Now relax.
Why is the Mac always the bridesmaid and not the bride? Simple.
The first buyers of small "PC's" were interested in business apps - spread sheets, data and word processig, etc. IBM and its clones already entrenched in the business world, met these needs.
The applications and the markets for graphic intense applications (Apple's forte') did not yet exist.
When home computers became available, people gravitated towards the same gear and OS they had at work. In the real world, excellence in design does not always triumph over inertia.
Now add the Macs slightly higher price, the intial paucity of available programs, and the "fringe element" reputation of Mac owners, viola' - second class status.
Does your machine meet your needs? Does it do what you ask? Is it the best thing since sliced bread? Then stop worrying about the PC crowd, and enjoy yourself.

Aug 7, 2000, 08:20 PM
I love my Macs, I just don't like ignorant PC users. I am not ignorant of PCs. I don't hate them. What's the deal with computers, anyway? I mean, no one gets so passionate about fast-food preference, do they? "I like McDonald's!" "McDonald's sucks! Burger King is so much better! You eat an inferior burger!"

Aug 7, 2000, 08:27 PM
how about that currently, there is no computer that satisfy my needs? I want a computer that is very easy to use, maintain, and highly customizable to my own needs, which MacOS has done a good job of, much better than Windows. However, when I'm not working, I want a machine that can handle the best games with ease, and have as much game support as the next machine, which is not the case with current Macs. I also want my machine to be HIGHLY configurable as far as hardware is concerned, to exactly fit my needs and do what I want. Apple's BTO is a start, but very limited due to lack of HW support (ie nVidia).

I think many of the so-called Mac gamers are facing similar delimmas, as gaming alone doesn't really make a living, but does provide endless hours of entertainment...
That's why numerous times now I've said, the day MacOS is officially supported on AMD is the day I'll ebay my Mac and go and build my own AMD system running MacOS.

Aug 7, 2000, 08:42 PM
snarkie poo, it was a lovely day today when i went on my daily bike ride around the lovely park just a block away from my abode... a glorious park where legend has it that one Peter Minuet gave that monetary pittance to the original inhabitants of the island now known as Manhattan, thanks! but now clouds are gathering and we a due for a helluva storm, the weatherman tells me... word.

might have to unplug the modem, lightning!


Aug 8, 2000, 03:05 AM
PCs are ok!
BurgerKing sucks!
Fix people, not governments!
Ignorant Mac users are ok!
Steve Jobs is wierd!
A Cummins Turbo Diesel is faster than an iMac!

Aug 8, 2000, 04:41 AM
This had to turn into "my mac is better than your PC" argument. to most PC users, its just a computer....to Mac users its their life's cause, trying to propel it to stardom. to me its just a machine.
And on the MS being such skum....let me ask you.....if it wasnt for intel and MS and IBM, how many people in the world(not only the US) would not have computers ? they made it cheap for ordinar people to get computers, something Apple couldnt do.

And please people....i am not attacking the Mac here, just read the damned post i posted earlier.

[This message has been edited by wlonh (edited 08-08-2000).]

Aug 8, 2000, 04:44 AM
Id just like to remind everyone that my question was basically this:

Why do PC users hate the mac platform/hardware with such a passion?

I don't hate wintel boxes nearly as much as my friends hate my G4. They consider it a laughingstock to computers. They think that the transparent plastics, simplistic OS, and other things "mac" make it a toy instead of a computer...they simply detest and laugh at the macintosh.

I did not say I was a minless zombie to Jobs...But I do belive that the MacOS is better than anything on the market for the average consumer...

Aug 8, 2000, 04:53 AM
And I really thought he'd left for good... Oh well, he must still be looking for a life...

4)Apple incorporates a lot of the technologies that Intels geniuses came up with, example...USB and AGP.

You compare firewire with USB. USB is the biggest load of sh*t ever to grace a Mac... It is PATHETIC!!
And keep in mind I am not dissing it because its intel... Hell, AGP rocks.
Sorry if these points have already been raised - my eyes are so sore I have to squint at the screen and reading makes it even worse.


Aug 8, 2000, 09:19 AM
PC vs. Mac??? Mac vs. PC???
The world is big enough to support more than one platform, are you?
Build your own X-Box!!!!!
Why not build your own gaming console for price of a cute overpriced VST drive? Surely you are not AFRAID to use Windows? Scared you might like it like Internet Explorer? No? Good, then read on... Tribes2 is scheduled for release on Oct.16, and if you want in on the fun you can wait for the Mac version or build a cheap PC/voodoo box for gaming. Mice cost $6.00/keyboards $15.00 and you can even get non-beige versions at those prices. Building a machine is a fun thing to do, and a good educational exercise. If you have never used Windows before, you'll be just fine with Windows 98, it senses any newly installed components, and updates/loads the drivers automatically.
Still with me? Good! You are on your way to double/triple the frame rates you are used to, as well as mods, games, and other software you just can't run anywhere else. First, you'll need to find a website that can explain everything you need to know. My favorite is http://www.pcmech.com/. Look for the 'Build a PC' button. Then you can shop around for the coolest case you can find (http://www.colorcase.com/). Not as nice as the Mac's enclosures, but you should find something that looks good next to your Mac or under your desk. (I went for a plain black rack-mount chasis, as I have a rack-mounted 9600).
Well, the rest is up to you. You can share your monitor, USB, and PCI stuff. Hard Drives are cheap. You even get a choice of boards/chips/speeds/number of slots/etc. So think different before spending $120.00 to replace your 'defective' mouse and keyboard, or $200.00 to supplement your built-in speakers with external ones, because you just might get more satisfaction for your money elsewhere. Go for it!
This "Porsche vs. Ford Taurus" debate is played out after 15 years. Two car families are "in".

Aug 8, 2000, 09:45 AM
I thought two guys came up with the concept for USB and intel bought it from them...??

Aug 8, 2000, 09:55 AM
if there were but one option, wintel, i'd not use a computer... how many times must i say it? USE WHAT YOU WANT!

for ME there is only Mac and MacOS, PERIOD!!!! case closed! i am not alone in this, and if i were it would make no difference... it is Mac for me and nothing else will do!

have a damn fine day, everyone!!


[This message has been edited by wlonh (edited 08-08-2000).]

Aug 10, 2000, 02:33 AM
Well said.


Aug 10, 2000, 01:56 PM
I like McDonald's better.

Aug 10, 2000, 02:42 PM
We gotcha, lon - can't a few guys have a decent conversation without you saying "I will use MACS ONLY... ever ever ever! Use what you want!" every five posts? http://forums.macnn.com/cgi-bin/wink.gif

I think people have a pride issue with their PC's. It's like this: A person buys a PC... goes out and spends a few thou to make sure he's got the best stuff, the fastest stuff, and the newest stuff. Two weeks later (like the gateway T5 commercial) Intel announces they are about to release a new chip, or some web site posts benchmarks showing that Macs really are faster, or he has a major problem with some software (probably Windows). Something like that. So he says to himself, "Y'know, I just got this computer and now it's crap. But dang it, I'm gonna like it if it kills me." Then they go out and bash Macs because it makes them feel better about their stupidity. You see the same thing on grade school playgrounds all the time. It's sad, but that's the way people are.

Of course, that explains the "informed" to "techie" zone of PC users, and the "under-" or "un-informed" folks just follow the lead of the techies... because they don't know any better.

We're supposed to sing about piraty things!

Aug 10, 2000, 02:59 PM
I gotcha MacOS761, and forgive me if so many others do not know/have not read my stance on these matters... i am a HELLUVA dedicated Mac user... and why NOT? this IS a MacNN forum, no? not a PCMacNN nor a MacPCNN site... http://forums.macnn.com/cgi-bin/wink.gif

case in point: I HATE NETSCAPE! why? because it is UN-Mac-like... in SO many ways... people who are NOT blindly in thrall to netscape know EXACTLY what i mean...

Look, i was a confirmed netscaper UNTIL IE 4.5 and i have never looked back... and do not even tell me that you enjoy doing HTML in netscape!!! HA! please, if you do then you are a MASOCHIST...

i could go on ad infinitum, but no, and people would just NOT understand...

they NEVER do! and it is too bad for them... "the pearls are cast before swine", to paraphrase the Bible... (oops! seems the earth is opening up beneath me.... help!!!!)


Aug 10, 2000, 05:34 PM
McDonalds does have much better tasting french fries. Burger King tried, I repeat tried to re invent their french fry but failed miserably.

Comon! how you can you beat the BigMac??! with a sloppy whopper w/ unwashed onions blaghh....

Aug 10, 2000, 07:47 PM
It's all about In 'n Out Burgers! I take them over McDonald any day!

Aug 10, 2000, 10:11 PM
In n' Out? what kinda burgers are those gelly?

McDonalds burgers puts BurgerKing to shame. I once had someone try to argue with that "they wouldn't eat McDonalds because they kill rainforests". What a big crock of pudding, What about the cows?!?!? if your going to save rainforests why don't you give a dang about the cows??!

You ever see how cows line up to get chopped up? I've seen it on the Discovery Channel. They line up in isles as if they were getting on a roller coaster. One by one they step through this door with plastic flappy curtain hanging down to protect the workers from the splash. As soon as the cow steps into this dark room you hear the most groooosome sounds and the cows short scream. Sawed, chopped, mutilated and one by one they walk in without a clue.

Rainforests my behind. People just want to feel like they care.

[This message has been edited by disectamac (edited 08-10-2000).]

Aug 10, 2000, 11:33 PM
Hmm, I can understand your concern about the cattle, but this argument, unfortunately, is based on the assumption that McD's actually USES beef in their burgers. Personally, I am tempted to say that there is a higher percentage of, say, processed squid intestine than of beef. And no, I can not feel sorry for a squid.


Aug 11, 2000, 02:31 PM
Ok, I've been gone, but now I'm back and I MUST make my will known. You people are so far off base, it's almost pathetic! Listen to all this gobbledy-gook you're spoutin' here. I think it's fairly obvious that anyone who knows fast-food knows that WENDY'S rules the roost. McDonalds abd BK? Ha! I laugh in the face of their crappy burgers! http://forums.macnn.com/cgi-bin/biggrin.gif

"We are the crazy ones, rebels, misfits, troublemakers, round pegs in square holes. Ones who see things differently. We are Mac users, and we won't be ignored!"

Aug 11, 2000, 04:24 PM
I think TI's got it sort of right. Wendy's is the only one of those places where you can get a salad that doesn't suck completely. On the other hand, their fries and burgers are yuck (IMHO).

And as to the original question--I've used Macs since 1986 and certainly don't consider myself an underdog. On the contrary http://forums.macnn.com/cgi-bin/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by yoyo52 (edited 08-11-2000).]

Aug 11, 2000, 04:38 PM
and i'd rather be an underdog than an overlord like that disgrace known as Gates...

when i was young (like most of you here on the fora) it was the underdog that everyone pulled for and cheered on!

THAT is the so-called 'American Way', if you ask me! (of course, no one did)

Aug 11, 2000, 07:56 PM
k, if we're voting for fast food here you can't go past Subway! Always good and fresh and proper ingredients unlike BK and McD's. You can actually taste the different ingredients and unlike KFC never get food poisoning.................darn colonel sanders is trying to kill us

Aug 11, 2000, 09:09 PM
wait a second their bud. Subway and KFC are in completely differen't catagories pal. GO FIND YOURSELF A SUBWAY KFC FORUM!!!

this is a BURGER ONLY forum http://forums.macnn.com/cgi-bin/biggrin.gif

Aug 12, 2000, 01:56 AM
McBell's on Sixth Ave. in the Village, burgers to kill for... Irish pub with Mexican frycooks, they make the finest boygee i've ever eaten

Aug 12, 2000, 02:33 AM
I'll try to check out McBell's while on my south next week wlonh. http://forums.macnn.com/cgi-bin/biggrin.gif

Nuthin beats a good burger. Come to think of it I haven't had a White Castle burger in while.

[This message has been edited by disectamac (edited 08-12-2000).]

Aug 12, 2000, 12:15 PM
I can't believe that disectamac mentioned White Castle and good burgers in the same paragraph. Ugh!