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-   -   Is there _anyway_ to boot OS9 on new macs? (http://forums.macnn.com/64/classic-macs-and-mac-os/227257/there-_anyway_-boot-os9-new-macs/)

 
xfesty Sep 7, 2004 06:27 AM
Is there _anyway_ to boot OS9 on new macs?
Hi,

Understand why the new macs won't boot OS9, but is there any way to do it (neat hacks or tricks to fake the missing bits)?

I've got some applications (inc. some games) that don't run well under Classic, but worked nicely under OS9 on my old G4 400. I can't use them at all now on my G4 1.25. D'oh.
 
MacMatt Sep 7, 2004 02:44 PM
Re: Is there _anyway_ to boot OS9 on new macs?
Quote
Originally posted by xfesty:
Hi,

Understand why the new macs won't boot OS9, but is there any way to do it (neat hacks or tricks to fake the missing bits)?

I've got some applications (inc. some games) that don't run well under Classic, but worked nicely under OS9 on my old G4 400. I can't use them at all now on my G4 1.25. D'oh.
I just got a new G4/1.25/MDD model...it came with OS9.2.2 installed along with OSX.2.7. I immediately upgraded OSX to 10.3.5. My G4 will let me boot in either OSX or OS9. Will not yours do the same?

I wanted to be able to boot OS9 from a partition on another HD...The new computer would not do this with an existing secondary HD with OS9.2.2 I had used on another G4.

So I replaced the System Folder on the second HD with a copy of the System Folder from the new G4...The second HD then booted okay...only problem was getting preferences, extensions, etc. set up to run the applications. This took a little while but I can now boot from the second HD and run all the apps I had installed there.

If I remember correctly, I copied the System Folder while booted in the new computer and it kept the blessed smiley face.

Matt
 
JMHammer Sep 7, 2004 03:31 PM
Re: Re: Is there _anyway_ to boot OS9 on new macs?
MacMatt-

The newer Mac models do not include the ROMs necessary to boot into Mac OS 9. A Mac which does have the required ROMs and has a properly formatted hard drive and a properly configured System Folder will be able to boot into Mac OS 9, as you discovered. Unfortunately, xfesty's Mac doesn't have the ROMs.

I'm not aware of any hacks that emulate those ROMs. And it's very possible that, even with the ROMs, Mac OS 9 could not properly drive the new hardware and it would simply fail to boot or give you so many problems you'll wish it hadn't booted.

Best wishes,
John H
 
nJm Sep 7, 2004 11:23 PM
I'd like to be able to boot OS 9 on my iBook G4. I have some software that will only run directly in OS9, not classic, and I no longer have any other Macs in the house (well other than a 7200/120, but that doesn't really count).
 
Big Mac Sep 11, 2004 09:26 AM
AFAIK, it is not that new Macs lack something required by OS 9 to boot. It certainly is not ROMs - new world Macs (G3s and higher) don't even include traditional Mac ROMs. Rather, it is that the new Macs have new hardware that OS 9 does not support. Every time even a minor upgrade to a Mac came out, modification of OS 9 was required. The newer Macs have newer processors and motherboards, and it would take work for Apple to update OS 9 to run on them. Apple officially buried OS 9, which was a pretty strong sign that the OS was dead in all but its Classic form. The Mac OS is dead. Long live Mac OS X!
 
bowwowman Sep 27, 2004 10:42 AM
Quote
AFAIK, it is not that new Macs lack something required by OS 9 to boot.
It is not that they "lack" anything, but they do "include" firmware that blocks them from booting any Mac OS that is older than the one they shipped with....

Quote
It certainly is not ROMs - new world Macs (G3s and higher) don't even include traditional Mac ROMs.
They dont include "traditional" roms, but they most certainly DO include "new world" roms....
 
Eriamjh Sep 27, 2004 06:06 PM
Don't you people understand the concept of "not supported"?

G5s won't boot OS9 any more than you can run OS8 on a 68030, or OS8.5 on a 68040.

The software was simply not written to support those machines. It was left out. Sometimes, Apple chooses not to support machines even though the code is there for those machines to work. The web site OS9Forever.com has some tips on how to get OS9.2.2 running on "unsupported" machines.

If you can find a programmer who really knows OSes and Mac hardware, I'm sure he could write the necessary code to boot any Mac into OS9. But it would take a lot of work and time.

If you need OS9, but a machine that OS9 supports booting to OS9. Trying to run OS9 on a G5 is like trying to run System 7 on a G4. Old OSes do not support new hardware.
 
Person Man Sep 27, 2004 06:49 PM
Quote
Originally posted by bowwowman:
It is not that they "lack" anything, but they do "include" firmware that blocks them from booting any Mac OS that is older than the one they shipped with....

They dont include "traditional" roms, but they most certainly DO include "new world" roms....
No, Apple has done NOTHING to intentionally block newer Macs from booting into OS 9. Rather, they are no longer updating OS 9 to support the new motherboards.

Each new motherboard has required a few changes to Mac OS 9 to support it and be able to boot it. Some of these changes have been included in the "Mac OS ROM" file, and some of them have been included in other files (such as the System suitcase, among other things).

Since Apple officially declared OS 9 dead, they are no longer putting forth the effort to write the new drivers for the motherboard. Since they are doing that, there is no need to write support for dual booting into the boot ROMS on the new machines.

There IS NO INTENTIONAL BLOCK, that if removed, would let the machines boot into OS 9.
 
Big Mac Sep 28, 2004 02:17 AM
Quote
Originally posted by bowwowman:
IThey dont include "traditional" roms, but they most certainly DO include "new world" roms....
Bowwowman, you make it sound as if you're contradicting me, but you're saying exactly what I said. A little annoying, I must say. :)
 
bowwowman Sep 28, 2004 07:48 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Person Man:

There IS NO INTENTIONAL BLOCK, that if removed, would let the machines boot into OS 9.
The block IS intentional, but is NOT OS 9 specific and has been present since the B&W's came out. It will not allow a "new world" machine boot into an OS that is older than the one that was installed by apple.

ANYONE can write device/mobo drivers, given the proper tools and knowledge, but only A P P L E can write & retains 100% control over it's boot rom code. Seems pretty friggin "intentional" to me .....

Even the G5's don't ship with classic installed anymore. You have to go digging into the restore CD's to find & install it, after which you STILL can't boot directly into OS 9, only use it as a compatibility layer for older apps. I suppose you're gonna tell me this isn't intentional too :)

Face the facts folks, Apple wants everyone to buy shiny new G5's, thereby switching over to OS X, and leave OS 9 to collect dust & rot in it's coffin.........
 
Person Man Oct 2, 2004 02:16 PM
Quote
Originally posted by bowwowman:
The block IS intentional, but is NOT OS 9 specific and has been present since the B&W's came out. It will not allow a "new world" machine boot into an OS that is older than the one that was installed by apple.
No, the block IS NOT intentional. How many times do I have to say this? The reason newer computers cannot run the earlier operating systems is that Apple DID NOT UPDATE THE EARLIER VERSIONS TO RUN ON THE NEWER MACHINES, not the other way around (i.e. by your logic, all newer machines can run the older operating systems simply by removing the block).

What you are implying by saying that there is an "intentional block" is that the block can be removed. The fact that Apple is intentionally not updating older releases of the operating system IS NOT the same as Apple "intentionally blocking" the machine from running the older OS. The end result MIGHT be the same. But there is no "intentional block." Think of it more as intentionally ignoring earlier releases of the operating system when building new machines.

Saying that Apple "includes an intentional block" implys to less technical users that there is a way to "disable" said block. That cannot be done, so it is not an intentional block.

Bottom line... there is a BIG difference between intentionally blocking and intentionally ignoring something (to intentionally block something would mean devoting the resources to getting the older operating system to work on the newer machine and then disabling it in the firmware. To intentionally ignore means to devote no resources to the older operating system).
 
Eriamjh Oct 6, 2004 12:37 PM
I think it's time to say that OS9 is dead.

Now why can't I run OS8 on my G5? :D
 
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