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Donald Apr 5, 2000 11:43 AM
9.0.4 ATi Rage 128 3D drivers slower?
After installing the 9.0.4 release, my settings for Quake 3 (already turning off a lot of options) seem slower, & bog down when panning across complex textures. Has anyone else noticed a change in their graphic speed w/9.0.4?
P Apr 5, 2000 01:38 PM
My graphics are faster, fwiw.
dingo Apr 5, 2000 01:52 PM
I noticed that some of my ATI extensions were disabled after updating. Re-enabled them and now its fast.
oscar Apr 5, 2000 07:37 PM
i think that since so many ati updates have been issued, that some people have a few extentions from one release, and a few other from another. What I did on my brothers imacdv was to delete all the ati related extentions, and reinstall 9.04. This seemed to of helped.

-See Yea!
Donald Apr 7, 2000 02:04 AM
Thanks for the suggestion oscar, but I tried removing all my ATi & OpenGL inits prior to updating to 9.0.4, to be sure that I /wouldn't/ have a mismatched set.

The OpenGL 1.1.2 set of ATi & OpenGL inits seems to work fine with 9.0.4, but I'd of course like to use the newest set possible.

Bambi Apr 7, 2000 11:55 AM
I have tried removing the ATI set and reinstalling 9.0.4 with no joy.

I am using a clean install of OS9 until this issue is solved.
zoozx Apr 7, 2000 11:56 AM
Can some list what should be in extensions with 9.04 so i can delete old versions without screwing up?
zac4mac Apr 7, 2000 02:30 PM
I loaded up 9.0.4(easy update, no clean install) yesterday morning before coming in to work. SETI ran all day OK, came home and played Unreal for 2-3 hrs with no noticeable change in behavior compared to 9.0. surfed a bit and ran SETI all night...all is good. Only concession I made was to update to 9.0.4 before updating to QT 4.1.1 z4m
donperfecto Apr 7, 2000 06:58 PM
My graphics are definitely slower in Quake, it sucks!
Jawacool Apr 7, 2000 09:48 PM
Mine is quite a bit slower also. Please, if someone could post what ati extensions should be in the extensions folder, that would be appreciated.


ndpatel Apr 8, 2000 03:43 AM
my quake3 is also jittery after the 9.0.4 update. the game seems to "pause" every seccond or so, and then resume. it's quite annoying. i tried placing the old ati set from 9.0 in the extensions folder (inc. opengl 1.1.2) and quake refuses to run this way--error type two. so now i have to choose between quake and my floppy drive. the slowdown is ridiculous, by the way--even the fire effect in the title screen is jerky. this, on a brand new g4/450. irksome, to say the least.

oscar Apr 8, 2000 04:16 AM
Versions of ATi software installed "clean" from 9.04:

ATI 3D Accelerator 4.9.7
ATI Driver Update 1.5.3
ATI MPP Manager 1.2f1
ATI Rage 128 3D Accelerator 5.8.1
ATI Resource Manager 2.4.8
ATI Video Accelerator 4.4.7
ATI Video Memory Manager 4.6

-See Yea!
green.robotics Apr 8, 2000 10:53 AM
Have PB500G3 that came with 9.0.2 and was upgraded to 9.0.4. Ended up with the following ATI files
3D Accelerator 4.9.7
Graphics Accelerator 4.9.4 (2D)
Rage 128 3D Accelerator 5.8.1
Resource Manager 2.4.8
Video Accelerator 4.4.7
All labeled update OS9
Didn't see graphics accelerator on Oscar's list and I don't have MPP Manager, Driver Update, and Video Memory Manager.
Any clues for the difference?
dante Apr 8, 2000 06:55 PM
Well, I've gotta say that UT is smother under 9.0.4, on my iMac anyway.
slur Apr 8, 2000 06:58 PM
Quake 3 Arena specifically uses the OpenGL libraries for its rendering. If there has been a change in speed then possibly reinstalling the prior version of the OpenGL extensions will return things to normal.

The kind of pauses you describe appear to me to be the symptom of AppleTalk choking. I believe 9.0.4 update zaps the PRAM, and this would cause the AppleTalk setting to revert to the Printer Port. Make Sure AppleTalk is set to your networking port (Ethernet, usually) or make sure it is turned off.

Scott Lahteine
slur Apr 8, 2000 07:48 PM
One More Thing!

There is a file called Apple CPU Plugins that lives in the Multiprocessing folder in the Extensions folder in the System Folder. The 9.0.4 Update installs Apple CPU Plugins version 2.4.

I have found in some instances that video updates will slow down dramatically if this item is present. Try dragging the Apple CPU Plugins file to the desktop and restart. This may fix things but be warned....

There may be some software that wants the Apple CPU Plugins file to be in its proper place. So don't throw this file away.

Scott Lahteine
Donald Apr 8, 2000 11:05 PM
To eliminate the problem under OS9.0.4, it's only necessary to remove inits
which have "ATI" or "OpenGL" in their name, & then install the OpenGL 1.1.2
software from Apple's site. (Note that this may disable DVD playback acceleration, you may need to extract the necessary files from the OS9 tome with TomeViewer & then update to OpenGL 1.1.2).

You CANNOT mix & match ATi extensions with OpenGL releases. They are
release to work in concert. You can't simply replace the drivers "oscar"
mentioned, those conflict with OpenGL 1.1.3, & the graphics in Q3A will be completely unusable. You must also install the OpenGL 1.1.2 extensions as well.

The symptoms I'm seeing are completely dependent & repeatable to panning across areas of large numbers of polygons or complex textures, so AppleTalk issues are unrelated. UT isn't as taxing graphically card as Q3A, so UT speed comparisons are probably irrelevant.

Maybe this is an intentional slowdown by Apple, to help the sales of Voodoo 4 & 5 cards in a couple of months... as if G3 & G4 owners need any encouragement
crusher4 Apr 8, 2000 11:40 PM
NV 15 is coming to mac....why would you want a v5......

Lets see a show of hands on who wants an external power supply on their graphics card....

oscar Apr 9, 2000 02:35 AM
Donald, Have you actually read my post, You would of seen me say that mixing and matching is a bad idea™ by removing those, and updating with 9.04, you refresh the drivers to the newest possible.

-See Yea!
Ha_hA_HA! Apr 9, 2000 11:55 AM
Okay Quake 3 people, go to your preferences and make sure Sync Every Frame is checked off. I have spoken to a few people who said the updater unchecked this for some reason....
ndpatel Apr 9, 2000 03:32 PM
okay--the sync every frame toggle was off, and reenabling it has actually made q3 _faster_ than before on my g4/450 with the orignal rage128 card. thanks ha.

Robin Apr 9, 2000 07:54 PM
I installed 9.0.4, QT 4.11 on my old 266 G3 -with a rage orion card. Not only did I get a whole new range of monitor resolutions on my multiscan 17" but it now runs comfortably at 85Mhertz (1024x768) refresh rate - UT goes like the clappers!
Donald Apr 10, 2000 05:20 PM
oscar, I wasn't saying or implying that you recommended replacing the extensions you listed, in whole or in part. I was stating that if anyone wants to revert to the OpenGL 1.1.2 release, then it's necessary to replace not only the ATi extensions, but the OpenGL ones as well.
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