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angevine41 Mar 30, 2000 08:17 AM
"Keys out of order, 4, 2112."
Odd stuff going on with IE4.5/OE5: Freezes and quits in IE, delayed responses in OE. Have used both with ease for months. Latest other changes: 2 ISP's configured into Download Manager; Mouse works installed.

This is Performa 6360, running 8.5.

Disc Aid: "Problem: keys out of order, 4, 2112. Test Done. Problems were found, but Disk Aid cannot repair them." (Ran it again with same results.)

Is it time for me to break down and get Norton Utilities? I guess latest is 5, but I found 4 for $6 oem, which sounds great to a cheapskate like me. (what is oem?)
ATP Tour Fan Mar 30, 2000 10:27 AM
OEM stands for Original equipment manufacturer, which pretty much means that your $6 version will just be a CD that was going to be bundled with something else. You won't get the manual or anything.

Sure, go ahead and get Norton 4. You're not missing much with version 5.
Linda Mar 30, 2000 12:23 PM

check symantec's website to be sure that the version you want to buy supports the os you're running...

lycaon Mar 30, 2000 12:30 PM
"keys out of order" is not good.

Apple's description of the problem: "B-Tree records or referenced records have become damaged"

This could lead to data loss. I'm not sure if any of the disk utilites out there can fix this problem; maybe someone else knows.

See DiskFirstAid:FrequentlyAskedQuestions.

"If Disk First Aid reports 'Problems were found but Disk First Aid cannot repair them', the recommended solution is to back up important documents and files, and reinitialize the hard drive." (from end of above TIL article)

But wait for a response about disk utilities. If there's one that can fix this, then you may prefer that route. (maybe DiskWarrior or TechTool?).

[This message has been edited by lycaon (edited 03-30-2000).]
angevine41 Mar 30, 2000 03:12 PM
Linda, I did, thanks; how'd you know Vine was a a nickname? Do I know you or was it a good guess?

lycaon, uh-oh, I don't like that very much. I already ordered the Norton 4 (it was less than $10, including shipping).

I usually keep Zip backups fairly current, but now will tighten up, and see what Norton can do.

Funny thing is, I recently started thinking about a wipe disk clean install. Got an AW5 CD because the bundled CW4 on Performa CD was such a pain to piece out. Ditto a new dictionary/thesaurus because AH bundled was piecy, too.

So, a CPU can have a serious problem, but keep on working pretty well, for awhile?
wlonh Mar 30, 2000 03:40 PM
nope your CPU (G3 chip or G4 chip or whatever u have) is fine, it's the HD that is in question.

DiskWarrior is great, can fix prob's w/HD that no others can, that said, i have DW and Norton Util's

don't boot without 'em i say
angevine41 Mar 30, 2000 06:37 PM
I've been reading some, at Alsoft. Keys are, like, ID numbers for files? And out of thousands of files, I've got 2 that are bad or unfindable? Is that so bad, or am I as usual over-simplifying?

If Norton won't fix it, I can either spend $60 or so for Diskwarrior, and HOPE it might fix it..........OR I can reformat and that will almost surely fix it?
lycaon Mar 30, 2000 07:19 PM
The problem is with your hard drive's B-tree directory (the part that keeps track of where files start and stop on the physical disk surface). Not something that you want to take chances with, as it most likely will cause data problems in the future.

Backing up and re-initializing is free and will work, just takes a bit of time (especially if you're not organized). Using the disk utilites takes less time (when they work), and help to recover data that you haven't backed up; it's a matter of downtime and how important that is to you.

Follow Apple's instructions: backup, re-initialize, re-install. It will take care of the "keys out of order" problem (after all, you'll be making a completely new directory!).

And get a couple of disk utilities for the future if downtime is important to you. I've got Norton Utilities and Data Rescue, but know that DiskWarrior and Tech Tool are great products. Most power users seem to prefer keeping at least two utilities. Each one has its strengths and weaknesses.

Good luck and cheers!
lycaon Mar 30, 2000 07:31 PM
p.s. You can continue along without too much concern as is, but, eventually, you'll run into a serious directory problem. So tackle this at a time of your choosing rather than wait for the gremlins to strike when you least expect it. It brings peace of mind.


[This message has been edited by lycaon (edited 03-30-2000).]
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