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luap82 Jun 27, 2000 07:44 PM
Problems with 9.0.4
A friend of mine recently got an iMac DV SE with OS 9, and always complained about the small bugs that came along with OS 9. (He uses a USB zip, floppy and printer, and these caused a lot of problems) as a "solution" i downloaded 9.0.4 from apple and installed it, along with version 2.2 of the DVD software. now, the problems are even worse. the system crashes at random times, very often, and he is considering going back to OS 9. I suggested going back to 8.6, because this seems to be the most stable OS right now. Any suggestions? what could be causing the problems with OS 9.0.4, i thought this was supposed to fix everything. Thanks...
WDL Jun 27, 2000 09:51 PM
Your problems are probably USB related - join the club. Whatever you do, don't go back to 9.0!

Quick, simple test(s):

Unplug all your USB peripherals except the keyboard/mouse, which should be connected directly to the top USB port on the iMac.

1. Shut down (not restart) - wait a few seconds and start up. Most likely it will start up normally!

2. The most likely conflict is if you installed the Iomega software on the CD that came with the Zip - disable ALL of it - the Zip will operate from the drivers built into the OS ROM! Shut down, plug in the Zip and start up. If the software is disabled, you should start with no problem.

The Iomega CD may have included an "iMac Update" which they recommended installing - the Apple read me's warn against installing 3rd party iMac updates because they will cause the system to become unstable and behave erratically. If you made the mistake of installing this, trash it.

Now you might want to try one or two restarts to ensure everything is going well - then start adding your other peripherals back in, one at a time, to see if any of those cause a problem.

You may not think so now, but 9.0.4 is a very good, stable system, once you get it ironed out.

Would appreciate you posting back here to let us know how things are going so that we can help.

WDL Jun 27, 2000 10:28 PM
Additional to the previous posting.

In the first window when you open your HD - there should be a document titled "Late Breaking News" with a large blue question mark - open it - first window should be titled "Mac Help" - at the top of the right hand column it should read "Late Breaking News" the second item down should be "About Your Computer" - double click on this and read carefully. The info here can save you hours/problems.

Good ops!

luap82 Jun 28, 2000 06:35 PM
thanks, i'll try all those. Another weird problem was that he had runs Virtual PC, and he had a folder on the desktop that was "shared" meaning anything dropped in there could be read by the PC. OS 9.0.4 (or something) caused this to disappear. Weird. anyway, i'll let him know of these suggestions.
luap82 Jul 7, 2000 04:30 PM
WDL - he tried all these and was still having problems with his USB printer, he would have to unplug it and plug it in every time he started up, until i realized it wasnt turned on at startup, he tried this and now everything seems to be working 100%. thanks a lot for your help!
WDL Jul 7, 2000 06:42 PM
You are most welcome!

darkprince Jul 10, 2000 09:04 AM

I have an iMac DV SE w/ OS 9.0. I also run Netscape 4.72 and Quicken 2000. I just recieved the CD for 9.0.4 and I'm planning to install it shortly.

Will the installation change my settings on Netscape, Quicken or any other programs?


[This message has been edited by darkprince (edited 07-10-2000).]
wlonh Jul 10, 2000 10:12 AM
no, do a clean install and your settings will be in the 'Previous System Folder' in the pref's folder, drag and drop 'em into the new System Folder Pref's folder

[This message has been edited by wlonh (edited 07-10-2000).]
GFitzy Jul 10, 2000 12:22 PM
Been running an iMac rev B with OS 9.0.4 and a USB Zip as well as a USB Epson printer and Microtech USB scanner connected via a hub with NO problems at all. I suspect all these horror stories regarding 9.0.4 are primarily extension conflicts with 3rd party apps.
Take the time to examine your extensions and prefs folders and trash things you're no longer using. You would be surprised to see how much crap gets sprayed all over your system folder when you install software. MS being being one of the biggest offenders.
elzinat Jul 10, 2000 01:18 PM
I completely disagree with that last comment. Not only does M$ not increase the number of items in the System Folder, it DECREASES it (mmmm, tasty shared libraries; mmmm, tasty MacLinkPlus; mmmm, tasty Netscape; mmmm, tasty MacOS)...
GFitzy Jul 11, 2000 05:26 PM
Well, let's see...before installing MS Office I didn't have all of the Microsloth XXX Library extensions in my System folder. How else can you describe the change other than, before = N extensions, after = (N + MS extensions) where (N + MS extensions) > N.
Cipher13 Jul 12, 2000 12:58 AM
I haven't had time to read all replies in this thread so bear that in mind.
As far as I know, the DV and DVSE are rather unstable computers - I know a few people that have lots of crashes at random times etc.
Personally I think it is a bad idea having a 400 MHz processor (as cool as the G3 is) in a computer with no fan, as the convection currents just aren't good enough. Not that this helps your problem, thought I would post anyway...
Ask around about that in the iMac forum.


[This message has been edited by Cipher13 (edited 07-12-2000).]
P Jul 24, 2000 01:22 AM
Another good trick for curing USB conflicts is zapping the PRAM.

It's not an extension conflict, these problems usually show up long before that - before the smiling Mac, even. It has to do with the Mac being limited to 4 MB of RAM just at the start, and these babies run out of it sometimes when there ar elots of USB units attached.

Cipher13: The G3 has a register that tells its internal temperature. I have checked that temperature from time to time, and I've never seen it above 48 C. Accoridng to IBM/Motorola, the G3 should handle at least 105 C, so overheating is not an issue here.

The new iMacs are still a bit fresh, and all new machines are a bit shaky at first - just look at all the upgrades delivered for the first iMac. It's also far too common that people remove things that they deem unnecessary from their system folder. Most of the things there really have to be there.
wlonh Jul 24, 2000 01:29 AM
if you're going to zap the PRAM you might as well do an NVRAM zap as well...

shut down the Mac and then hold down the option, command, P, and R keys while starting up and let go of the keys after three chimes... (three chimes to be thorough, some say four and even five, search AppleTIL for more on this)
Cipher13 Jul 24, 2000 05:23 AM
I don't mean the processor overheating (though I do think 105C is a bit of an overstatment), I mean the bus overheating.

P Jul 24, 2000 10:13 AM
I don't plan on having my G3 anywhere near 105. The bus is just 100 MHz, and doesn't really generate that much heat. The only thing that might be risky is the graphics chip - that lovely Rage 128.

I've never put a thermometer inside the iMac, maybe I should tread one through one of the ventilation holes. Might be interesting if I decide to overclock it one of these days.
Gregory Jul 24, 2000 02:46 PM
Another good trick for curing USB conflicts is zapping the PRAM.
It's not an extension conflict, these problems usually show up long before that - before the smiling Mac, even.
System probes the USB ports. For me, on b&w, I have 2nd USB modem. Booting from CD, I have to unplug. Needs the extension for it - even BEFORE any extensions load! If I don't unplug, crashes later during startup and says to "boot with extensions off" etc.

Old problem. I don't have the 9.0.4 CD, with Apple 9.0 CD I have to unplug to boot.

Macnu Aug 2, 2000 05:30 PM
Simple suggestion that works for me...
If you are constantly reloading system software because of never ending problems do this. After a successful CLEAN install, go into the system folder and use "labels" to label all clean install components (and contents of the extensions and control panel folders) a particular "color." This allows you to differentiate anything NEW that has been laoded into your system folder. Youo can go in then and check, after loading new software EXACTLY what it loaded and where. It's not a perfect system but it works for me. You may even wish to "colorize" known third party extensions with their own label. I do that with Adobe and MS extensions and it helps in the troubleshooting process enormously.
Gregory Aug 2, 2000 06:24 PM
How about after clean install making a rewriteable (not compressed or read-only) .smi file of the system folder. Later, if you need you can apply updates to it. And when you need to replace the System or Finder (BOTH are showing as damaged on a regular basis according to CC8) just copy them in (after removing the files in the System folder - no need to boot from different volume).

Same for possibly damaged files. CC8 makes it easy to see recently installed, set custom links of group of extensions, check for damaged files. As well as how long it takes each to load, memory used.

wlonh Aug 2, 2000 06:48 PM
Installer Observer freeware. NOT obtrusive Rube-Goldberg-like software like CC8 junkola... and go to and do a search on keyword 'installer' or 'install' and see what other freeware goodies there are for these issues, there are a couple...

i never use any assistance whatever, know your Mac and use less junk, simple is beautiful and less is more, whenever you can manage to have it that way...
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