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cwl Jul 11, 2001 01:03 AM
Advice on buying late model Mac
My lease on my Dell laptop is up and I have decided to switch exclusively to the Mac Platform (I have always used both Mac and Wintel). Eventually I want to buy a Tibook, but am waiting until they integrate the GeForce2Go and a CD-RW before I spend 4k.

For the time being I am looking to buy a 604e and need some recommendations. I always wanted a 9500 in college but couldn't afford the 5k price tag. I want to buy either a late model 9500/200, 9600/200 or 8500/180. Basically this computer will be used primarily for word processing, legal pleadings, articles, web surfing, email, newsgroups, basic desktop publishing. I don't plan on moving past system 8.x, and anticipate using older applications (I am a big advocate of "antique" software. bloatware is bad).

I am leaning toward the 9500/200. But have a couple of questions.

If I stick to older software such as ClarisWorks 4, Photoshop 4, Pagemill 3, Office 6, etc. will I experience speed shock from taking a step back technology wise? (I am on a Pentium II with 144 megs running Win2k). Will it surf the web alright? etc? Can you anticipate any problems?

Does the 9500/200 have a/v inputs and outputs?

Is the video card on the 8500 integrated?

What kind of upgrades should I consider initially on a 9500? I definitely plan on at least upgrading the memory to 256megs. What else should I upgrade from stock, a new video card, HD, etc? Like I said I don't plan on using current generation software, I plan on sticking with older versions and I don't do anything really "hardcore."

Thanks.

[ 07-11-2001: Message edited by: cwl ]
 
Cipher13 Jul 11, 2001 05:23 AM
If you plan on a 604e, I'd have to recommend a 9600/350 - you'll want all the speed you can get.

The 8500 vid card is indeed integrated.

Memory will be very expensive for that 9500.

I would have to strongly recommend a G3 of some sort - the 9500/200 will run OS9 fine, and I think you'll need it.

While you say you're gonna stick with antiquities, you won't.

You will need modern software. Don't limit yourself with an older machine - put the latest software you can on whatever it is you get.

I strongly recommend a beige G3 Tower or later, although in some cases the 604e will be faster - but not many. The 350MHz 9600 is a monster, and I'd get one just to be able to say I had the best Mac ever... but don't put yourself in a corner here.

You don't wanna end up hating the Mac world cause you got yourself an old model ;)
 
BLAZE_MkIV Jul 11, 2001 09:31 AM
I purchased a used 8500/120 for $150 for use as a home file/ftp server. It's very slow compared to my B&W G3. I'd suggest watching www.DealNN.com and look around for a used G3. There were some B&Ws advertised for ~$900.
 
cwl Jul 11, 2001 09:52 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Cipher13:
<STRONG>If you plan on a 604e, I'd have to recommend a 9600/350 - you'll want all the speed you can get.

The 8500 vid card is indeed integrated.

Memory will be very expensive for that 9500.

I would have to strongly recommend a G3 of some sort - the 9500/200 will run OS9 fine, and I think you'll need it.

While you say you're gonna stick with antiquities, you won't.

You will need modern software. Don't limit yourself with an older machine - put the latest software you can on whatever it is you get.

I strongly recommend a beige G3 Tower or later, although in some cases the 604e will be faster - but not many. The 350MHz 9600 is a monster, and I'd get one just to be able to say I had the best Mac ever... but don't put yourself in a corner here.

You don't wanna end up hating the Mac world cause you got yourself an old model ;)</STRONG>
Sound's like you have never experienced the joy of a BSOD in WinNT. I don't hate the Mac World at all. The Apple IIg is still king in my book.

But I don't nor will I ever have any intention of running the latest software. The stability and functionality sucks. IMHO the latest derivations of software don't add much to functionality for what I use them for. Why buy the latest and greatest for full price when you can purchase a 2 year old version that works better for 1/20 of what it would cost today? Is Word 2001 really that much better over ver. 5? Is it really worth the 349.00 list price when I can get ver. 5 for ~30.00? I think not. At least not for the price. A lot of the best programs on the Mac are over 4 years old. More, WriteNow, MacPaint, Cricket Graph, Photoshop 3.0.5, Nutscrape 3.04, Data Thief, and the loveable huggable Talking Moose.

I will not be using the computer as a desktop publishing or sound manipulation platform or for playing games rather just basic document editing and web browsing until Apple finally comes out with a Tibook with decent specs.

So my question is which of the 8500 - 9600 series 604e macs is best for this purpose? If I am running older software a G3 isn't worth the cash when I can get a 8500-9500 for ~200.00 and will soon be getting a TiBook(As soon as Apple figures out how to get a CD-RW and decent hardware acceleration on in).

BTW memory isn't that expensive 80.00 for 256.

I just want a good stable bridge until Apple comes out with the laptop I want.

[ 07-11-2001: Message edited by: cwl ]
 
maclove Jul 11, 2001 10:20 PM
Your best bet get yourself a G3 there very cheap if you look around you can get some good deals... Check out the iMac i saw them going around $600 that's a very good deal.... :)
 
Cipher13 Jul 12, 2001 03:34 AM
Well then, go for a 9600/350.
 
<zack4mac> Jul 12, 2001 08:28 AM
85/9500's are solid Macs with plenty of life left.
My 8500 has a 454 G3 in it and is faster than my P-III 500 at work.

8500 has s-video and RCA in/out, audio in/out.
7500 has s-video and RCA in only, audio in/out.(7500 and 8500 use the same MoBo, 7500 has some components not installed, for video out)
7300/9500 have audio only, no video.

73/75/8500 have 8 DIMM slots and 3 PCI slots.
9500 has 12 DIMM slots and 6 PCI slots.

Be advised, the 85/9500's are a real bitch to work on(internally)

If you don't plan on taking this box to its limits, a 7500 is almost identical to an 8500, but much easier to work on.

Definitely add RAM and a bigger hard drive.
Get a ZIF carrier and keep an eye out for a cheap OEM G3 in the 3-400 MHz range and maybe a video card.

Z
 
Tristrami Jul 12, 2001 10:44 AM
There are beige G3s to be had for $300-$500. Get a desktop or a minitower, and you can expand them for much longer and more cheaply than PPC Macs. I dearly love my old 5400, but it is truly at its limit in terms of expandibility. On the otherhand, I've just begun to explore the possibilites on the G3. The option of running OS X, the fact that I can have 786 megs of RAM, not to mention the DVD compatibility and many other possible expansion options make this a sound investment.
 
drewman Jul 14, 2001 03:44 AM
I believe that you are pricing the wrong kind of memory for the old powerhouses of the 8500 and 9500. They don't take SDRAM DIMMs instead they use FPM (fast page mode) DIMMS which are much more expensive if they aren't already with the machine.

For instance, MacGurus lists 128MB FPM DIMMs at $210.

If you are running older software it won't need as much RAM, but you should know that memory will cost more than you thought.

You gave me the clue to step in when you said 256MB. They never made FPM DIMMs in that size...

drewman
 
milhous Jul 14, 2001 11:26 PM
Just bought a 9500/200 from a friend of mine and I tell you it kicks ASS!

It's running 8.6 and running the latest iTunes without a problem. It hasn't even stalled a song when i'm launching apps or working with multiple apps. Everything for the most part is stock with 96MB of RAM. I would run a lower OS like 7.6.1, but I need to run the modern apps.

The 9500 is a BEAST without question. I've listed below an upgrade list that I was considering doing. Most likely I'll do it sequentially and I may not even go with the entire list since it's pricey.

Memory for that 9500 isn't that bad since I do all my ram purchases for my Pismo PB and what not from www.memorytogo.com . Currently, they have 128MB sticks for the 9500/200 at $108, which is a heluva lot more reasonable than the highway robbery prices of other establishments.

This is just a sample of what could be done with it, so don't flame me by the high price. Yeah, I could buy a new Mac with it, but I love the old school macs.

================================================== =========
PowerMac 9500/200 Upgrade Roadmap
================================================== =========

1. 512MB RAM Upgrade $432.00
2. VST UltraTek Ultra ATA/66 IDE PCI Card 87.95
3. IBM Deskstar 75GXP 7200RPM Hard Drives (2) 557.90
4. XLR8 MachCarrier G3 500 Mhz Upgrade Card 429.00
5. ATI Radeon 32MB PCI Card (Mac Version) 229.00
6. Orange Micro OrangeLink FW/USB Card 89.00
7. LaCie 19" Blue Electron CRT 589.00
(or a DVI LCD Substitute)

========
SUBTOTAL 2413.85
 
Tjeerd van Hoytema Jul 15, 2001 06:16 AM
I agree that a 9500 is still a cool machine, but a 9600 is way easier to work in, adding DIMMS, etc. And by the time you get your Ti, you can put linux on the 9x00 and use it as a web/file server.
 
itomato Jul 15, 2001 11:30 PM
I paid $450 for my beige G3. 512MB of RAM cost me just over $100. Even if you got a 9600 for $300, the limitations with hard drives and CD/CD-R/DVD(SCSI 2), RAM (OWC has 128MB for &gt;$50), and the fact that it's a 604, make the G3 a far better value.

Granted, you could upgrade it easily, with 6 PCI slots, but why bother? $179 for a 333MHz G3, $100 for an ATA/66 card, $200 for a decent HD, $50 for video on par with the built-in RagePro in the G3, etc.

My 9500 is real sluggish compared to the G3. RAM and drive availability are what made me upgrade, and I'm sooo glad I did.
 
stuartev Jul 16, 2001 03:51 AM
[QB]My lease on my Dell laptop is up and I have decided to switch exclusively to the Mac Platform (I have always used both Mac and Wintel). Eventually I want to buy a Tibook, but am waiting until they integrate the GeForce2Go and a CD-RW before I spend 4k.

For the time being I am looking to buy a 604e and need some recommendations. I always wanted a 9500 in college but couldn't afford the 5k price tag. I want to buy either a late model 9500/200, 9600/200 or 8500/180. Basically this computer will be used primarily for word processing, legal pleadings, articles, web surfing, email, newsgroups, basic desktop publishing. I don't plan on moving past system 8.x, and anticipate using older applications (I am a big advocate of "antique" software. bloatware is bad).

I am leaning toward the 9500/200. But have a couple of questions.

If I stick to older software such as ClarisWorks 4, Photoshop 4, Pagemill 3, Office 6, etc. will I experience speed shock from taking a step back technology wise? (I am on a Pentium II with 144 megs running Win2k). Will it surf the web alright? etc? Can you anticipate any problems?

javascript: x()
<font color = red> If you buy an 8500/120, it will not be fast, but you can buy one for around $100 if you are lucky. A 9500/200 won't be as slow, but it's harder to find a good price on it. I wouldn't rule out UMAX S900s or Powertowers by Power computing since they have faster hard drives and video cards as well as 6 PCI slots. My suggestion would be to get the best deal among the machines you want and spend more on customization. I would look at Smalldog and OWC for a 400mhz G3 processor upgrade card which is very easy to install and costs around $150. You can even overclock them. I would get a newer video card if the machine has the original. A Radeon PCI would be best but it is too expensive and overkill for the machine. I would look on Ebay for ATI cards that people are selling off from B&W G3s and PCI G4s. If you put 256 megs of RAM, a G3 card and a better video card, speedwise you should be very pleased. If you want to speed the machine up more and you don't mind spending a few bucks, either put in an ATA66 card and a fast ATA hard drive, or get a 2940 or better ultra SCSI Card and a fast SCSI hard drive. </font>

Does the 9500/200 have a/v inputs and outputs?

<font color = red> 9500/200s didn't come standard with AV. </font>

Is the video card on the 8500 integrated?

<font color = red> 8500 comes with an on-board video card and video RAM. It would be good to add a new video card if you get one. </font>

What kind of upgrades should I consider initially on a 9500? I definitely plan on at least upgrading the memory to 256megs. What else should I upgrade from stock, a new video card, HD, etc? Like I said I don't plan on using current generation software, I plan on sticking with older versions and I don't do anything really "hardcore."

<font color = red> Like I said above, I would get a 400mhz G3 upgrade card which you just plug into the motherboard after you unplug the old processor. A video card would be good, but shop around. I recommend Ebay. The hard drives on 8500s and 9500s are usually not very big, 1-2 GB. With the G3 card, these machines are still very powerful and will not seem slow. I would run OS 8.5 or later because of compatibility and stability issues. You should be able to run any software you want and even add USB and Firewire if you desire. The only thing I wouldn't recommend you do is try to run OSX. Anything else, even Photoshop 6 should run fine. </font>
 
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