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Raman Jun 18, 2001 10:07 PM
Best Vintage All-in-one?
Hi,

I'm looking into buying a good vintage all-in-one apple. I'd like it be able to access the internet thru my broadband ethernet connector and at least use an old version of netscape or ncsa mosaic. i have no knowledge of older macs.

which one should i buy? classic? color classic? what?
 
druber Jun 18, 2001 10:55 PM
i think you'd be surprised at just how slow a color classic would be. i'm not sure if your main concern is cost or space. i'd recommend at least a performa 5xx series. i had one for years, and surfing on it was quite slow, but not unmanageable. the faster you can get the better, especially if you have an ethernet connection..
 
itomato Jun 18, 2001 11:04 PM
I agree. The Performa 5XX's are neat looking, and reasonably useful.. A MacTV would be the ultimate, if it wasn't for the 68030 and absolutely teeny 10MB RAM maximum. The ColorClassic is probably the coolest looking all-in-one of all, but pitifully underpowered.

I'm rather fond of my SE/30. It's pretty snappy with 32MB of RAM and a decent hard drive. It's got ethernet, it can run NetBSD, Linux, and System 7.5.

128's, 512's, Classics and SE's are based on the 68000 CPU, and have no real expandibility.
 
Raman Jun 18, 2001 11:12 PM
Quote
Originally posted by druber:
[QB]i think you'd be surprised at just how slow a color classic would be./QB]
You don't know slow until you've ran OSX on a Pismo 500 with 256 megs of RAM.

I think I just want to waste my money on a cute little machine, that's all. I remember using Mac Classics in one of our colleges libraries. I have a 6100/60 at home at my parents which is still ticking (albeit with a grafted PeeCee power supply sticking out the back!).

It would probably just be used for email and surfing vintage mac sites and be more of a novelty item in my new house that I'm building, hence the reason I want a all-in-one thing..
 
bradoesch Jun 19, 2001 12:24 AM
I have a Performa 580CD, and it's pretty slow. Netscape 4.x takes a few minutes to load, and I wouldn't think of using it as an Internet machine. But it's only got a 33 MHz processor. Slooowww. Still a great machine. If it would start up. Grrr. Anyhoo, I'd suggest something new/faster than it if you want to do Internet.
Well, I have a Classic II, and I wouln't use it for Internet either. You could if you wanted, for a challenge or something...
 
Tristrami Jun 19, 2001 12:34 AM
By far the best older all-in-one is the Power Mac 5400. They sell fro $100-$200 and can be easily and cheaply upgraded, both in terms of RAM and processor. A decent L2 processor G3 upgrade can be had new for less than $200 and you max out the RAM (128mb) for about $80. Best of all, the HD is IDE, so you can replace teh 1.6gb drive w a 10, 20, 30 40 or 60gb drive for less than $200. Finally, there's an optional tv tuner card, and it lets you turn on your machine with a remote....
 
ginoledesma Jun 19, 2001 01:31 AM
I have an LC575 (33MHz 68LC040/36MB RAM) and it isn't that slow. I still enjoy surfing the web with it, albeit without the fancy additions such as Flash and JavaScript support.

I'd try to get a Mac with an IDE/ATA interface because IDE drives are by far cheaper than SCSI drives. If you want some speed from your Mac, then get one of the PPC-based all-in-ones. I don't know how much the PowerPC G3 All-in-one Mac costs (the predecessor of the iMac), but that would make for a pretty snappy machine.
 
Oink Jun 19, 2001 02:03 AM
SE/30. Haven't come across one at a garage sale yet... Beats a classic II any day...
 
Cipher13 Jun 19, 2001 09:35 AM
Colour Classic II for low range.

What'd rock:

5500/250, or a G3 all in one, the beige ones.

Look for a 5500.

At the very least, get a PowerPC... 5260, whatever...

[ 06-19-2001: Message edited by: Cipher13 ]
 
Cipher13 Jun 19, 2001 09:37 AM
Quote
Originally posted by itomato:
<STRONG>The ColorClassic is probably the coolest looking all-in-one of all, but pitifully underpowered.</STRONG>
The 5500/250 DE (black) beats the TV for looks any day.
And it packs a helluva punch...
 
ddiokno Jun 19, 2001 09:45 AM
I'd have to put my vote in for an SE/30... I think that is the mac that "lived" the longest for me...(used it faithfully for seven years), but then moved on to bigger and better things...
For browsing the internet... consider iCab. Which has a tiny footprint, but will run on many older machines (I believe it has support for machines running OS 7).
best of luck!
dave
 
<anonymous> Jun 19, 2001 12:15 PM
Also vote for the PPC 5400 and iCab, a very versitile machine and browser. ;)
 
finboy Jun 19, 2001 01:21 PM
I think you should at least get a 52xx machine, slow PPC but ram and hard drives are cheap, and it will run 8.1 pretty effectively.

The 5500 or the All-in-one G3 (MacinTooth) are the best bets, but I've got a 5400 I'm going to soup up in the Fall as my office machine. Compared to my imac, they've got EVERYTHING a man could want on a machine. The G3 has three PCI slots and (usually) a built-in Zip drive. The 5500 has a much better graphics subsystem than the 5400, and one PCI slot for expansion (USB or a combo USB/Firewire card). The RAM limit on the 5500 is 136M, and RAM is rather expensive. The G3 will accept up to 512M or so.

You can get a 52xx at MacResq for around $100. It will use ANY 72-pin RAM, they don't have to be matched pairs, up to 64M total. Plus, they use cheapo IDE drives and not the expensive and relatively hard to find narrow SCSI drives that other compact macs use.

You could get a 580 and put a PPC upgrade card in it (I like the form factor better than that of the 5200) but you'd essentially have a 5200 then.

The 52xx and 54/55xx machines all accept the video-in card and TV tuner cards, and my 5400 plays Video CDs quite well. Speeder-bike racing in surround stereo is pretty good for an "obsolete" Mac.

You can find external monitor attachments at places like refurbmadness.

[ 06-19-2001: Message edited by: finboy ]
 
Bophasa Jun 19, 2001 04:40 PM
Test ;)
 
druber Jun 19, 2001 06:44 PM
I'd say it comes down to how much money you want to toss at this old mac, and where you want it to fall on the useful-cool scale. All of the AIOs look pretty cool, as far as that goes. Heck, snag a 20th Anniversary Mac, for all that matters (it's the first one I happened across). I bet if you post a price point, you'd find a variety of AIOs that fit it. Heck, I'd help. I love shopping for macs, even though I rarely ever buy them. :)
 
jeromep Jun 27, 2001 05:27 AM
I think the 20th Anniversary Mac is a great suggestion. Although most people that I know that have one won't let go of it for the world. The used prices on them are still a bit out of this world.

The G3 All-in-One would make a great real machine. They are starting to end up in the second hand channels now, they are the most expensive of the all-in-one units, but the most practical for real work and useability. That also had that strangly cool molar look to them.
 
finboy Jun 29, 2001 07:14 PM
I think that Powermax and some of the others had the G3 AIOs for less than $800 a while back. That's MUCH NICER than an iMac because of the built-in ports and the 3 (count 'em 3!) PCI slots, as many as most other machines had, and 300% more slots than ANY iMac ever had. I think they have a RAM limit in the 700M, or maybe even 1G, and you can add a G4 upgrade to them. If they are the AV models, you can add an external monitor (or at least send out to a projector). All in all, a much nicer machine than the iMac. But huge, and ewe-glee.
 
Avenir Jun 29, 2001 08:40 PM
Quote
Originally posted by finboy:
<STRONG>I think that Powermax and some of the others had the G3 AIOs for less than $800 a while back. That's MUCH NICER than an iMac because of the built-in ports and the 3 (count 'em 3!) PCI slots, as many as most other machines had, and 300% more slots than ANY iMac ever had. I think they have a RAM limit in the 700M, or maybe even 1G, and you can add a G4 upgrade to them. If they are the AV models, you can add an external monitor (or at least send out to a projector). All in all, a much nicer machine than the iMac. But huge, and ewe-glee.</STRONG>
Agreed. the PM All-in-One put the iMac to shame when it came out. The PCI slots (there's your usb and firewire) , the killer G3 processor already built in, floppy drive (optional zip built in as well) and a 17" monitor? It's still awesome. Can't you upgrade this to a G4 too? I'd pick one of these bad boys up.
 
finboy Jun 30, 2001 02:32 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Avenir:
<STRONG>
Agreed. the PM All-in-One put the iMac to shame when it came out. The PCI slots (there's your usb and firewire) , the killer G3 processor already built in, floppy drive (optional zip built in as well) and a 17" monitor? It's still awesome. Can't you upgrade this to a G4 too? I'd pick one of these bad boys up.</STRONG>
There's the Spartacus series, the 5500 and 5400. These can be L2 upgraded to G3s, but the RAM is limited. They have a 15" monitor, and can use a second monitor, but there's no built-in Zip option, and they only have one iffy PCI slot. Still, excellent machines.

The G3 "Mac-in-tooth" is just a 15" monitor, so it doesn't have an advantage over the iMac there, but it has more PCI slots and could be bought with an internal IDE Zip (which you can add later I suppose) -- this also means that it supports another internal IDE device, right? It had ethernet, a floppy, serial, adb, built-in modem (I think), SCSI, sound-in, sound-out, microphone, you name it. But it was just a 15" monitor. Really.
 
davidflas Jul 6, 2001 10:51 AM
I have a color classic that I into which I dropped dropped a Sonnet prestoplus'040 accelerator/nic/32mb ram upgrade.I dropped in a 540MB HD, and I also plan to get the display upgraded to 640x480 to make it more usable. Its a $99 prodcedure, or you can do it yourself if you know anything about soldering new parts into a Mac.There are directions all over the web on how to do it. This may not be the cheapest way to get a showpiece mac, but the result is really cool. I'm running MacOS 8.1 on it right now. Color Classics can be a little expensive because they have quite a cult following. Some people have powerpc color classics rigged up.

[ 07-06-2001: Message edited by: davidflas ]
 
x user Jul 6, 2001 02:51 PM
My personal Favorite is the SE-30. Absolutly beautiful machine.
 
MrK Jul 6, 2001 03:28 PM
Quote
Originally posted by itomato:
<STRONG>
I'm rather fond of my SE/30. It's pretty snappy with 32MB of RAM and a decent hard drive. It's got ethernet, it can run NetBSD, Linux, and System 7.5.</STRONG>
I must echo the sentiments here. SE/30 was one of the best machines ever made by Apple. I really, really, really regret giving mine up. At the time, I was a real Mac evangelist and would sell my older computers on the cheap to IMB users so they could get the hang of the Mac and maybe upgrade, pass the old one along and let someone else do the same. My entire family uses Macs still, even my grandparents who I got a Rev. B iMac for... they are in their 70s and had never touched a computer before.

I must point out that the rabid PC fan I sold my SE/30 to uses Macs to this day. In fact, he hasn't touched a PC in years even though he is a rabid gamer.

My 512 KB Fat Mac had the best keyboard I have ever used, kept it until I got used to the SE/30 keyboard. It was just like a typewriter. I still have it, but it doesn't function.

5500/250 DE (black) is really pretty, I always thought the G3 All-In-One, which was primarily bought by school administrators, was a cool ugly duckling. As a bonus, it is really fast. With its white plastic top and some paint to the beige portion you could have a really cool, really fast all-in-one. It is a little big though...

Of course, if you could track down a 20th Anniversary Mac... even with their sound bugs and what not they are REALLY neat computers.

iMacs just don't cut it for me. The only one I have cared for at all was the iMac Snow, and that was a passing fancy. I hope these iMac 2s coming out at MWNY change that. Apple is the only company to have ever built decent all-in-one computers.
 
Phoible Jul 8, 2001 10:59 PM
If you just want an old mac to play around with, I would recommend a first generation Powermac 6100. They are cheap (less than $100 fully loaded) and will run almost any software relatively quickly. While I wouldn't recommend a G3 upgrade or OS 9.1, a first gen powermac gives respectable performance with OS 8.1 and 1995 vintage software.
 
Tristrami Jul 9, 2001 12:07 AM
Phoible:

A) 6100s are not All-in-one
B) NuBus macs (x1xx) CANNOT upgrade to OS 9.1, but the G3 upgrade is advisable
 
<Magneto> Jul 13, 2001 12:25 AM
Another vote for the SE/30, That was one bad machine for the time,was a real workhorse, if you didn't mind the tiny black and white screen.
 
Tjeerd van Hoytema Jul 14, 2001 09:01 PM
I'd go for the SE/30 too, happen to have one with a broken SCSI internal HD which someone (not me) needs to fix. It's a great machine, indeed probly one of the best Apple ever made.
 
Cipher13 Jul 19, 2001 10:42 AM
When it comes to comparing a 5500 with an SE/30, though... come on... you can't recommend the SE/30...
 
Raman Jul 19, 2001 09:46 PM
O.k. well I did it. I saw a Mac Classic with keyboard, mouse, power cables + 4 megs ram for $34 including shipping ups on ebay.

Here it is:
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI...ndexURL=0&rd=1

Why does the screen of all the black and white macintoshes look blue? It always throws me off because i think that it's supposed to be color (but i know it's not).

Before you all get into a hissy fit about me purchasing the wrong one:

1) it was only $20
2) i will buy more. as i learn more and more, i'll probably get ones that I can network and do other cool, cute things
3) i desperately want the small all-in-ones that i used in one of the libraries at rutgers.edu - for nostalgic purposes.

i already have a 6100 which i've been in love with since i purchased it. i also have a 603e powerbook in a box that i stole from my brother, but it's in new jersey.

it's a hobby - i don't care alot what it can do, i just care taht it's an apple and that it looks good sitting there.

I'll probably purchase the color version (color classic). someone was telling me that i can upgrade the classic to a classic II by buying a new logic board but i dunno if i want to since i'd rather buy a whole classic II to put next to this one somewhere :) it's not like they cost alot.

i think if i buy machines with the intent of acually expecting them to do useful work in the same time frame as my pismo i'll be dissapointed and probably spend more time tinkering with their innards (which is definately fun - don't get me wrong) than i will shining it up on saturday nights :)

i think i just want them to be able to play games, show some hypercard stacks, surf the net for sh*ts and grins (just to say to my buddies that this machine can surf the internet before it was as widely used - and that microsoft had DOS when apple had system 6.x.

i think i'm mainly buying them for asthetic purposes since my workhorse for now is my pismo500 with 1 gig of ram. i scare peecee users at work when i tell them how much ram this thing has. they're like "1 gig hard drive?" "no, 1 gig of ram.. you know, like memory.." heh ehh heh..

now the question: which machine next ? i remember using the mac ii cx or something - the one thats a box with a disk drive hole that you usually put up on its side. it had a nice startup sound - maybe that's next. or maybe a quadra or centris. i want that carpetbag (control panel?) icon and system 7.5's bear and argyle background. am i sick or what?
 
Avenir Jul 19, 2001 10:17 PM
Quote
Originally posted by finboy:
<STRONG>The G3 "Mac-in-tooth" is just a 15" monitor, so it doesn't have an advantage over the iMac there, but it has more PCI slots and could be bought with an internal IDE Zip (which you can add later I suppose) -- this also means that it supports another internal IDE device, right? It had ethernet, a floppy, serial, adb, built-in modem (I think), SCSI, sound-in, sound-out, microphone, you name it. But it was just a 15" monitor. Really.</STRONG>
Oops, you're right, it's only 15".... but it can go to 1280x1024 with extra video RAM... that's pretty good. I was too caught up praising what I think is a kick-ass machine.
 
<Tristrami> Jul 19, 2001 11:56 PM
If you want a Quadra or a Centris, I've got one of each, and I'm moving at the end of the month. Lemme know.
 
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