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-   -   Apple TV new ship date - March 20 (http://forums.macnn.com/57/consumer-hardware-and-components/328657/apple-tv-new-ship-date-march/)

 
rmcalhany Feb 26, 2007 06:48 PM
Apple TV new ship date - March 20
Ordered my unit the day of Steve's presentation. Showed Feb 28th as ship date (w/ March 6 as delivery date). This was the ship date even through lunch today.

Just checked and now shows ship date of March 20th with delivery by March 26th.

Guess those rumors were right after all.

Robert
 
dawho9 Feb 26, 2007 07:07 PM
 
macbuddha06 Feb 26, 2007 11:50 PM
I really think they are waiting to get more movie studios on board before the launch of the product, as well as higher resolution video in iTunes. One can only hope the wait will be worth it!
 
icruise Feb 27, 2007 12:04 PM
That's an interesting idea. It's possible that the holdup is not with the product itself, but with the iTS side of things. But if that were the case, you'd think they might have announced the changes along with the product to help drum up interest. Then again, if the changes include adding HD movies to the store, pre-announcing it would kill a fair amount of their business as people decided to wait and not buy movies until the HD versions were available.
 
GORDYmac Feb 27, 2007 02:46 PM
Well, it makes sense. The selling point for these AppleTV boxes could be to be enhanced/HD content on iTS. Otherwise, it's just another network media player...and an expensive one at that.

Time will tell.
 
mduell Feb 27, 2007 07:46 PM
Two weeks ago they were saying it would ship this month, now it won't ship until the second half of next month? Must be some nasty software bugs; I doubt they'd be discovering hardware bugs this late.
 
brokenjago Feb 27, 2007 11:18 PM
Quote
Well, it makes sense. The selling point for these AppleTV boxes could be to be enhanced/HD content on iTS. Otherwise, it's just another network media player...and an expensive one at that.
According to an Apple rep, it can play any video content iTunes can play, meaning non protected formats as well.
 
icruise Feb 28, 2007 12:13 AM
Of course it will play non-protected media as well. That's a given. But its main advantages are seamless integration with iTunes, ease of use, and the ability to play protected content from the iTS. But this last feature isn't that impressive if the iTS video stays at its current resolution.
 
mitchell_pgh Mar 1, 2007 09:31 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by icruise (Post 3313207)
Of course it will play non-protected media as well. That's a given. But its main advantages are seamless integration with iTunes, ease of use, and the ability to play protected content from the iTS. But this last feature isn't that impressive if the iTS video stays at its current resolution.
But will 720 be enough to make movie buffs jump when they could buy a PS3 or HD-DVD player for a few hundred more and get 1080p?
 
icruise Mar 1, 2007 09:45 AM
No, it won't. But movie buffs probably aren't the target audience. Just like audiophiles aren't the target audience of iTS music sales.
 
imitchellg5 Mar 1, 2007 09:51 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by mitchell_pgh (Post 3314353)
But will 720 be enough to make movie buffs jump when they could buy a PS3 or HD-DVD player for a few hundred more and get 1080p?
For the average person the difference between 720 and 1080 is unapparent. Like icruise said, it's not marketed towards movie buffs. It's marketed towards the people who would love to see all of their media on their shiny new HDTV.
 
macmad Mar 1, 2007 09:56 AM
I don't consider myself a movie buff, or an audiophile. I've ordered an iTV to get remote control access to my (lossless) music collection with cover flow and NOT for movies, as its half the price of a Mac Mini. Kinda dissapointed its been delayed too.
 
alligator Mar 1, 2007 03:56 PM
Apple shipped my HDMI cable though. Should arrive today. Maybe I'll plug it in and leave it hanging while wating for my Apple TV. *SIGH*
 
mitchell_pgh Mar 1, 2007 05:19 PM
I'm just going to wait and see. Again, Apple could ship a single update that would make me buy it in a second. It's perfectly capable of playing VOB, Divx and Xvid files, they have simply chosen not to include it. While I'm sure it will eventually be hacked to work, I would rather pay for something that supports my preferred formats.
 
macintologist Mar 4, 2007 02:44 AM
I'll wait until someone hacks it to play all my .avi files.
 
Salsa Mar 7, 2007 11:31 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by mitchell_pgh (Post 3314780)
...It's perfectly capable of playing VOB, Divx and Xvid files...
Quote
...While I'm sure it will eventually be hacked to work...
Do you have any specific information on those two points, or are you just making an (educated) guess? VOB (well, actually video_ts including the ifo), DivX, and Xvid are very important to me.

I just ordered a Tvisto as a stop gap solution, but I really want a good network media player. I had high hopes for Apple TV when it was announced, but the lack of mainstream format support is a deal killer for me. A high ranking Apple executive recently said that you have to see the product to appreciate it, so I hope it really does have some killer features, but I'm very disappointed for now.

Apple TV has another big problem for me. It doesn't work seamlessly with EyeTV from Elgato. EyeTV has to finish a recording and then send the file to iTunes. I'm not sure if it has to do a lengthy re-encode too, but even if the transfer is instantaneous, that means I have to wait for a show to finish recording before I can start watching it. That's like time shifting with the old VHS tape decks instead of a modern DVR. It also means no live TV on the Apple TV. Bummer.
 
mitchell_pgh Mar 9, 2007 11:10 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by Salsa (Post 3320612)
Do you have any specific information on those two points, or are you just making an (educated) guess? VOB (well, actually video_ts including the ifo), DivX, and Xvid are very important to me.
It's an educated guess. If the system can decode MP4, it should easily be able to decode Divx, Xvid and VOB considering the hardware the tv has in place. My 3+ year old Elgato EyeHome can stream VOB, Divx and Xvid rather well, but the product isn't supported very well... and it just feels clunky. When I saw the tv in action... I started salivating and warming up my wallet. When I discovered it didn't do VOD, Divx or Xvid, I switched to "wait and see" mode.

Quote, Originally Posted by Salsa (Post 3320612)
I just ordered a Tvisto as a stop gap solution, but I really want a good network media player. I had high hopes for Apple TV when it was announced, but the lack of mainstream format support is a deal killer for me. A high ranking Apple executive recently said that you have to see the product to appreciate it, so I hope it really does have some killer features, but I'm very disappointed for now.
I still have high hopes for tv. Just because it doesn't support our favorite formats at launch, doesn't mean it couldn't with an upgrade or hack. I think we will get a sense for how expandable the box is once programmers/hackers receive the unit and have time to play.

Quote, Originally Posted by Salsa (Post 3320612)
Apple TV has another big problem for me. It doesn't work seamlessly with EyeTV from Elgato. EyeTV has to finish a recording and then send the file to iTunes. I'm not sure if it has to do a lengthy re-encode too, but even if the transfer is instantaneous, that means I have to wait for a show to finish recording before I can start watching it. That's like time shifting with the old VHS tape decks instead of a modern DVR. It also means no live TV on the Apple TV. Bummer.
I respectively think you are asking too much from the $300 tv with this request. The Tivo HD does this, but the cost is ~$800 plus a yearly contract fee of over $100.

The tv isn't a DVR, and I think Apple was smart not to attempt to tackle that industry as Tivo, Microsoft and the various cable companies have already saturated that industry.

Also, piping live TV through this unit seems like a strange request IMHO. Perhaps it's due to my envisioning the tv more as a modern DVD player. I wouldn't want to pipe my TV through my DVD player.
 
icruise Mar 9, 2007 02:38 PM
I wouldn't hold my breath about people hacking the Apple TV to decode other formats. It might be possible to install Linux on it and do it that way (like the iPod), but that would mean losing out on the main advantages of the Apple TV. Namely, Fair Play support and iLife integration. Remember, nobody has hacked the iPod in any significant way (by this I mean adding new capabilities to the iPod OS, rather than just installing a new OS on the iPod hardware).
 
mitchell_pgh Mar 9, 2007 05:08 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by icruise (Post 3322137)
I wouldn't hold my breath about people hacking the Apple TV to decode other formats. It might be possible to install Linux on it and do it that way (like the iPod), but that would mean losing out on the main advantages of the Apple TV. Namely, Fair Play support and iLife integration. Remember, nobody has hacked the iPod in any significant way (by this I mean adding new capabilities to the iPod OS, rather than just installing a new OS on the iPod hardware).
I'm not so sure. If tv is running OS X (which would make sense), it shouldn't be all that difficult to hack.
 
Salsa Mar 9, 2007 06:27 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by icruise (Post 3322137)
I wouldn't hold my breath about people hacking the Apple TV to decode other formats. It might be possible to install Linux on it and do it that way (like the iPod), but that would mean losing out on the main advantages of the Apple TV. Namely, Fair Play support and iLife integration. Remember, nobody has hacked the iPod in any significant way (by this I mean adding new capabilities to the iPod OS, rather than just installing a new OS on the iPod hardware).
That's a good point. Apple likes to lock down the hardware of consumer electronics devices to keep them simple and reliable and to slow down piracy.
 
Salsa Mar 9, 2007 07:07 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by mitchell_pgh (Post 3321942)
...I respectively think you are asking too much from the $300 tv with this request. The Tivo HD does this, but the cost is ~$800 plus a yearly contract fee of over $100...
The reason that the HD Tivo is so expensive isn't because it has an elegant user interface, the cost comes because compressing live HDTV streams requires a lot of CPU horsepower, especially two streams at once. The $115 Tvisto can PLAY hi-def streams. I just want a more seamless interface.

Quote
...The tv isn't a DVR, and I think Apple was smart not to attempt to tackle that industry as Tivo, Microsoft and the various cable companies have already saturated that industry...
Agreed.

Quote
...Also, piping live TV through this unit seems like a strange request IMHO. Perhaps it's due to my envisioning the tv more as a modern DVD player. I wouldn't want to pipe my TV through my DVD player.
It doesn't seem strange at all to me. It makes sense to have one powerful computer in the house. Most people already have one. The big central server can do the heavy lifting of having tuners, compressing video, and storing the video files. Then, you put a cheap thin client on each TV that can access the unified list of stored TV shows and play them. If you think that approach doesn't make sense, then you think we should have a $1,000 DVR on every TV.
 
bradbissell Mar 12, 2007 09:38 AM
The HDTivo does not compress the HD data stream, instead it records the digital signal as it is broadcast. So there is limited CPU usage for recording HD. The HDTivo simply decompresses the signal later on, which does tax the CPU. Recording digital SD works the same way. Recording Analog SD does tax the CPU with encoding.
 
Javizun Mar 12, 2007 10:11 AM
I have a feeling that when this is released
there will be away to install os x completely on it.

I know i speak for myself for now but the firts thing i will try to do
is to install mac os x.

I mean the hardware have to be mac os x 100% compatible if its working with apple t.v.

cant wait to edit/hack some kexts and see how lite the whole os it really is.
 
mitchell_pgh Mar 12, 2007 10:31 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by bradbissell (Post 3324252)
The HDTivo does not compress the HD data stream, instead it records the digital signal as it is broadcast. So there is limited CPU usage for recording HD. The HDTivo simply decompresses the signal later on, which does tax the CPU. Recording digital SD works the same way. Recording Analog SD does tax the CPU with encoding.
Ugh... that makes so much sense.

I guess I'm still fine with the tv being a "great at one thing" kind of box. It would be interesting if they created another box that expanded upon the tv, that would fit perfectly on top of it and connect via USB, but I guess we will just have to wait and see. I'm anxious to see what is REALLY in the box. We're only ~2 weeks away until the "Apple TV dissected" threads start flowing...
 
Salsa Mar 12, 2007 10:43 AM
All I can say is that I have an Elgato EyeTV 500. It is an ATSC tuner and my G5/2x2 slows down to a crawl when I try to record anything. If I try to compress it in h.264, my Mac is tied up for days.
 
bradbissell Mar 12, 2007 12:08 PM
Elgato is decompressing the HD signal and then recompressing the signal. It is a backassward way to do HD recording.
 
Salsa Mar 12, 2007 05:12 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by mitchell_pgh (Post 3314780)
...It's perfectly capable of playing VOB, Divx and Xvid files... I would rather pay for something that supports my preferred formats.
It looks like there is an "Apple TV" that does support VOB, DivX, WMV, etc, along with MP4 and AAC. It's actually made by Galaxy and it only costs $175 including shipping. It's called IPTV DMG. Also, it supports external hard drives via USB2 and Ethernet.


GMG Inc. -> Home
 
GORDYmac Mar 13, 2007 03:33 PM
RE: IPTV DMG. I doubt this device even remotely compares to AppleTV, but I digress.

I think the reason Apple has pulled the reins in on AppleTV is because of the crap that is out there now. I bought the D-Link DSM-320 in a huff over AppleTV. It was crap...I reordered AppleTV. The 320 looked great on the box. Wireless & good codec support, but since it was a wireless connection it didn't play worth a damn. Why? It needed an internal hard disk. My point is that all of these network media players look good on the side of the box, but the proof is in the final analysis.

Remember the iPod moaning years ago (price, no ogg, no wide screen, etc.)...yeah, right. It's the best player out there, probably because Apple didn't try to be the 'be all end all' at the beginning.

I really think that AppleTV has been streamlined to deliver the best playback. While I dislike the sparse codec support, I get it. If they only had to optimize a handful of codecs and can promise pristine quality, I say go for it. I've seen demos of several players since returning the D-Link, and nothing even compares to what AppleTV is promising.

RE: Tivo. Not a direct competitor. Tivo content comes from your Cable/Satellite provider. AppleTV's content comes from your computer. Therefore, why should AppleTV care about live TV? Makes sense to me.

[/exhale]
 
Salsa Mar 13, 2007 06:50 PM
I agree with you that the existing media players have a very clunky interface. Most of them are based on the same chip from Sigma Designs that the D-Link used, although the newer version is a little better. In my case I have already wired my house with cat5e cables, so wireless is not an issue, but I know that wireless networks are still to complicated and the g version is too slow for HD video. I'm sure that Apple will make the networking much easier to set-up in addition to using the faster flavor. Also, Apple will surely have a slick interface.

As far as the iPod comparison, I have to disagree. At least Apple supported the files that most people already had on their computers, MP3. They didn't limit themselves to unsual, highly cpu intensive codecs like Apple TV does. Off the air HDTV is broadcast in MPEG2. The file sharing networks are full of DivX. Many digital cameras record video in DivX or WMV. Many people edit their home movies to save on DVD images. Those are the mainstream codecs and none of them are supported by Apple TV. It is like if they had released the iPod supporting only AAC and not MP3.

Personally, I'll eventually start using h.264 for all my new content when I have a Mac that's fast enough. I tried to convert an HD show I recorded OTA into h.264 and my dual g5 churned away at it for days. That's not practical. I heard a rumor that Apple will start putting a special hardware h.264 accelerator chip into all their Macs soon. It will do both compression and decompression on the chip to leave the CPU free. I hope that rumor is true. If I could put a couple HD tuners on my Mac and view the content an Apple TV, that would give me enough reason to buy it. For now, even a dual G5 is too slow and the Apple TV can't view live TV, only shows that have been recorded, converted to mp4, and moved to iTunes.
 
icruise Mar 21, 2007 03:28 PM
Video review of the Apple TV by Walt Mossberg of the Wall Street Journal

He likes it (not a big surprise). Interesting that it worked just fine on an 802.11g network.
 
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