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-   -   It can't be long now....? (http://forums.macnn.com/106/delicious-monster/353795/it-cant-be-long-now/)

 
Tsurisuto Nov 12, 2007 11:34 AM
It can't be long now....?
This is one of my main anticipated applications for the Mac, but it feels like I have been waiting forever for it's release!

Can you at lease tell us whether it's coming out in the 1st half of November or 2nd? PLEASE.... I'm dying of anticipation here! :)
 
Delicious Monster Nov 13, 2007 03:06 AM
If I had to place bets I would bet on the first half of December, but we'll have to see how it unfolds as the beta widens (from limited to private) next week or so.
 
illitrate Nov 25, 2007 05:17 PM
first half of december? oh noes!! i'm going to be stink then :(
can you release it on the 21st? i get paid that day and it'd be like buying myself an early xmas present :)
 
Feynman Nov 26, 2007 04:03 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by Delicious Monster (Post 3531975)
If I had to place bets I would bet on the first half of December, but we'll have to see how it unfolds as the beta widens (from limited to private) next week or so.
In other wirds, not till December 15th or 16th, ala Apple's style of releasing products :cool:
 
Feynman Dec 6, 2007 07:41 PM
Mid month is almost upon us....do you monsters have any update? :)
 
Tsurisuto Dec 7, 2007 05:57 AM
Hopefully it is getting released within the next 8 days...?
 
jjmahoney Dec 7, 2007 10:41 AM
I'm slightly bummed that I just purchased DM if the newest version is about to be available and I'll have to pay $20 to upgrade it. I certainly will pay of course, but I'm just a little bummed having just bought the latest release a few weeks ago.
 
Delicious Monster Dec 7, 2007 10:46 AM
We're still working on it, so there's pretty well no chance it will be out in 8 days. We were down in Cupertino last week working with Apple's engineers on a few of the trickier bugs. Things are coming right along, and I think we all feel pretty good about it.
 
Feynman Dec 7, 2007 01:22 PM
So now we are looking at first quarter 2008.... :rolleyes:

Could we at least see more screen shots and hear more info? Please?
 
Delicious Monster Dec 7, 2007 03:39 PM
Did you see Scott Stevenson's latest?

Theocacao: A Closer Look at Delicious Library 2
 
Tsurisuto Dec 7, 2007 03:58 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by Delicious Monster (Post 3550116)
We're still working on it, so there's pretty well no chance it will be out in 8 days. We were down in Cupertino last week working with Apple's engineers on a few of the trickier bugs. Things are coming right along, and I think we all feel pretty good about it.
:(

I was looking forward to having Delicious Library by Christmas, that way I could have catalogued all my collections while I was off from work. It sounds like Delicious Library 2 won't be out until after the new year now! A real shame.
 
MikeShayne Dec 8, 2007 04:55 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by Delicious Monster (Post 3550337)
Did you see Scott Stevenson's latest?

Theocacao: A Closer Look at Delicious Library 2
Thanks for posting the link, if only because the comments had a link to Booxter. Why doesn't Delicious Library have a feature for comic books? They're going to have tools, but not comic books? Ridiculous. Booxter sounds pretty cool, and I kind of wish I had gone that way instead of DL, and I probably would have if I had known about Booxter 5 months ago when I bought DL. Though the big problem I see with both programs is that you can't share your collection online. Maybe that will be changed when DL2 comes out, but that seems to be less and less likely.
 
Feynman Dec 8, 2007 06:11 PM
Tools? Weird.
 
Morbus Iff Dec 9, 2007 08:28 AM
MikeShayne - I've been working on comic books. It's pretty hackish in version 1, but I'm really hoping it'll be easier in 2, what with the Applescript support. But yeah, I totally agree: Tools seems like a huge waste of time. Next up: groceries, because Amazon supports those lookups too!
 
Morbus Iff Dec 9, 2007 08:31 AM
Also, I've looked into Booxter, and that Other One (whose name I can't remember). My biggest problem with them is a) the Grand Comic Book Database integration isn't that good and b) they require separate databases - they segregate your media. You can't see all your movies next to your comic books. You can't see a custom view of all your Marvel DVDs with all your Marvel comics, etc. If I wanted 4 or 5 programs, and 4 or 5 files, for my entire library, I wouldn't be interested in Delicious in the first place.
 
Delicious Monster Dec 9, 2007 05:23 PM
Tools are actually a really big request. If you own a lot of tools and let people borrow them, it's a very similar problem to that of media. Admittedly, it's a less common request than comics, it was also a lot easier to implement in the current architecture.

As far as not being able to share your library online, that's exactly the main problem Delicious Library 2 is meant to solve.
 
MikeShayne Dec 9, 2007 05:29 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by Delicious Monster (Post 3551690)
Tools are actually a really big request. If you own a lot of tools and let people borrow them, it's a very similar problem to that of media. Admittedly, it's a less common request than comics, it was also a lot easier to implement in the current architecture.

As far as not being able to share your library online, that's exactly the main problem Delicious Library 2 is meant to solve.
Well here's a request for comics. I don't give a damn about tools. Comic books would be helpful. Right now all I can keep track of is the trades because they sell on Amazon.

And I know DL2 plans to solve the online problem, but then who knows if its ever coming out.
 
Delicious Monster Dec 9, 2007 08:10 PM
...and here's a response: I know.

Comics are a huge feature request, and a subset of the even more popular feature request, data sources other than Amazon.

At the moment, the biggest problem keeping Delicious Library 2 in beta and out of your hands is that the release is too damned big. We've got way too many new features. It's gotten so bad even I can't remember them all.

So here's the plan: first we ship Delicious Library 2, then we work on adding non-Amazon sources for things like comics and Australian DVDs and all those other things we can't do under the current architecture.

In the meantime, we've added scriptability so people like Morbus Iff can implement some of these things regardless of the development cycle. That will also help us gauge whether something like a plug-in architecture is going to be worth doing.
 
milhouse Dec 10, 2007 12:44 AM
Looking forward to this one too.

Better late and stable than early, buggy and bringing down the thunderous torrent of angry users.
 
Tsurisuto Dec 11, 2007 10:10 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by milhouse (Post 3551914)
Looking forward to this one too.

Better late and stable than early, buggy and bringing down the thunderous torrent of angry users.
I don't know... I still think they should release a timed beta version of Delicious Library 2 available free from their website. As they could spend months ironing out bugs, but there are guaranteed to be some bugs that they won't find and know of. This way, the Delicious Library makers get to test their product with a broader range of users and we get to try Delicious Library 2 for 4 weeks before the beta expires and stops working. At that time all bugs should have been ironed out and we can update to the final version of DL2 if we so choose!

But lets be honest, that won't happen, and we're unlikely to get our hands on DL2 until Apple releases 10.5.2 on the 15th January 2008. :cry:
 
jjmahoney Dec 12, 2007 02:13 PM
Patience is a virtue folks. I feel the same way when they delay a game I'm looking forward to (which is rare these days, but still). I'm glad they took the time to get it right before letting me buy it. Incomplete and buggy products are no fun.
 
Tsurisuto Dec 12, 2007 03:19 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by jjmahoney (Post 3553758)
Patience is a virtue folks. I feel the same way when they delay a game I'm looking forward to (which is rare these days, but still). I'm glad they took the time to get it right before letting me buy it. Incomplete and buggy products are no fun.
But the difference with games is that we have a release date. I don't mind waiting for DL2, but knowing when it's coming would make it easier.
 
jjmahoney Dec 13, 2007 09:12 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by Tsurisuto (Post 3553805)
But the difference with games is that we have a release date. I don't mind waiting for DL2, but knowing when it's coming would make it easier.
I suppose. But oftentimes we don't have release dates for games until they're finished (or nearly finished). They say "Q1" or "Spring 08" when something is annouced, then the speculation starts. "Well Spring ends in June so it has to be by the end of May!!!" Then the time frame gets closer and a delay is announced, with another vague release "date". Being told by some companies their game will be released "when it's done" has always been easier to swallow for me. I can get on with me life and eventually I forget until they say, "It's finished and coming out on this date!!" Then I let myself get excited.

Of course, I just got DM a few weeks ago and only recently heard about 2.0 being in the works. I'm still so psyched about 1.6.6 that I haven't had time to get hyped up about 2.0. So I guess I can't really talk. :) But I understand them not giving a release date. They want it to be perfect, and setting a date puts pressure on them. If the date gets closer and they still have a lot of work to do to make it right they might release a buggy or incomplete product. We might not care, but they do. It's their baby!

Anyway, it's too early. Sorry for being on the soapbox. :)
 
MikeShayne Dec 22, 2007 09:36 PM
At this point I'd bet pinpointing the release to sometime in 2008 is a bit too optimistic.
 
Tsurisuto Dec 23, 2007 03:32 AM
Mark my words. We won't see Delicious Library 2 until Apple releases 10.5.2 in January.

Furthermore, I still stand by my prediction that 10.5.2 will be a necessity, and DL2 won't run on earlier version of Leopard.
 
CaptainHaddock Dec 23, 2007 06:40 AM
Maybe Apple will show a teaser of OS X 10.6 Lion in January, and then Delicious Monster will announce DL2 as a 10.6-only release. :)
 
Galley99 Dec 24, 2007 12:18 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by Tsurisuto (Post 3560839)
Mark my words. We won't see Delicious Library 2 until Apple releases 10.5.2 in January.

Furthermore, I still stand by my prediction that 10.5.2 will be a necessity, and DL2 won't run on earlier version of Leopard.
I have a feeling you may be right. :\
 
illitrate Dec 24, 2007 03:11 AM
what are the extra/improved features of 10.5.2 then that would mean it'll be minimum requirement? are there really going to be that many changes in a .1 release that's only a few months after the 10.5.1?
 
Delicious Monster Dec 24, 2007 11:19 AM
You're probably right about Delicious Library 2 requiring 10.5.2, but not for the reason you're thinking of.

Simply put, if we write part of Delicious Library 2 on 10.5.2, and test it on 10.5.2, we can't reliably say it will work on 10.5.1 or 10.5.0. Given that there's no reason, financial or otherwise, to stay on the previous point releases, there's no sense spending time to certify the program on them.

Realistically, if we develop the program on 10.5.2 and discover a bug, we'll put a workaround in place. When the bug gets fixed in 10.5.3, the workaround will still be there, maintaining backward compatibility. Indeed, it may never get removed.

However, it's just as likely we used a piece of code whose behavior in 10.5.2 was changed as a bug and, without even realizing it, we've broken backward compatibility in some tiny way.

All that being said, it's very unlikely we'd have to wait for a fix to release, which is to say, we're not going to have to sit on our hands waiting for a point release.
 
Tsurisuto Dec 24, 2007 03:32 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by Delicious Monster (Post 3561491)
You're probably right about Delicious Library 2 requiring 10.5.2, but not for the reason you're thinking of.

Simply put, if we write part of Delicious Library 2 on 10.5.2, and test it on 10.5.2, we can't reliably say it will work on 10.5.1 or 10.5.0. Given that there's no reason, financial or otherwise, to stay on the previous point releases, there's no sense spending time to certify the program on them.

Realistically, if we develop the program on 10.5.2 and discover a bug, we'll put a workaround in place. When the bug gets fixed in 10.5.3, the workaround will still be there, maintaining backward compatibility. Indeed, it may never get removed.

However, it's just as likely we used a piece of code whose behavior in 10.5.2 was changed as a bug and, without even realizing it, we've broken backward compatibility in some tiny way.

All that being said, it's very unlikely we'd have to wait for a fix to release, which is to say, we're not going to have to sit on our hands waiting for a point release.
No, but the impression that you guys gave after your visit to Cupertino was that you were trying to work some bugs out with Apple, which leads me to believe that Apple might have said that the code in question might be altered in the upcoming release of Leopard 10.5.2.

As 10.5.2 is only 2 weeks away, DL2 can't be far behind...
 
MikeShayne Dec 24, 2007 10:15 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by Tsurisuto (Post 3561633)
As 10.5.2 is only 2 weeks away, DL2 can't be far behind...
Hilarious.
 
Scrubelicious Dec 25, 2007 01:14 PM
Why not just wright it for 10.5.1? :D
 
Horsepoo!!! Dec 26, 2007 09:55 AM
I say they should write DL2 for 10.5.8. That'll buy them plenty of time.
 
Delicious Monster Dec 26, 2007 09:59 AM
Up until now we have been. I mean, I am still running 10.5.1. However, when 10.5.2 comes out we'll upgrade to it and all coding and testing will be under 10.5.2. We always run the latest updates and expect you to do the same.
 
illitrate Dec 26, 2007 06:41 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by Delicious Monster (Post 3562361)
Up until now we have been. I mean, I am still running 10.5.1. However, when 10.5.2 comes out we'll upgrade to it and all coding and testing will be under 10.5.2. We always run the latest updates and expect you to do the same.
awwww, that makes it sound like it could be quite some time after 10.5.2 before it gets released :(
because i'm sure you said the same thing about 10.5.0 and how you'd be upgrading the code to run with the released version in September and then you'd begin testing against that code and feature set
and now the same iteration has happened with 10.5.1 and is going to happen with 10.5.2

don't get me wrong - i'm not hoping to goad you into releasing the app in an unfinished state - i'm sure everyone else here feels the same, it's just that we wonder at what point do you stick a fork in it and say it is done, or will it forever keep needing a bit more testing to be compatible with the next OS point release?
 
Delicious Monster Dec 27, 2007 04:01 AM
Don't misunderstand me; that's the exact opposite of what I'm saying.

What I mean is, we will probably require the latest version of Mac OS X, but that has no bearing on our release date. As of right now, we are not going to wait for any particular point release for testing purposes. The requirement is simply a side effect of whatever point release we happen to be on when release happens.
 
MikeShayne Dec 27, 2007 04:47 AM
10.5.8 times a charm!
 
illitrate Dec 28, 2007 05:40 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by Delicious Monster (Post 3562819)
Don't misunderstand me; that's the exact opposite of what I'm saying.
ah, that's a relief then - anyway, don't mind us, we're just gagging to get to use the new application - you know what users are like, we'll spend the whole time complaining that it's not released, and then as soon as you do let us have it, we'll spend the whole time complaining about bugs and saying you should have spent more time testing :-)
 
:haripu: Dec 29, 2007 04:27 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by illitrate (Post 3563920)
we'll spend the whole time complaining that it's not released, and then as soon as you do let us have it, we'll spend the whole time complaining about bugs and saying you should have spent more time testing :-)
aoooh, illitrate! We were doing so well ... and then you come along and give away the secret master plan to the enemy!! ;)
 
Tsurisuto Dec 29, 2007 04:37 PM
Hypothetically, how long have the team allowed themselves to test Delicious Library 2 with Mac OS 10.5.2?
 
Delicious Monster Dec 30, 2007 09:33 PM
Not hypothetically, zero.

We're not specifically testing for any particular build. We're testing in general on whatever build happens to be the one that's most current.
 
analogue SPRINKLES Jan 2, 2008 07:04 PM
Well... here's hoping it comes out this year.
 
Delicious Monster Jan 3, 2008 11:19 AM
I'll drink to that.
 
analogue SPRINKLES Jan 3, 2008 03:16 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by Delicious Monster (Post 3567218)
I'll drink to that.
Perhaps the drinking is what is causing the wait? ;)
 
Tsurisuto Jan 3, 2008 04:08 PM
I'm betting we'll see Delicious Library 2 on the 24th January. Anyone willing to take me up on that?
 
MikeShayne Jan 3, 2008 10:07 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by Tsurisuto (Post 3567445)
I'm betting we'll see Delicious Library 2 on the 24th January. Anyone willing to take me up on that?
"If I had to place bets I would bet on the first half of December,"

Bets always go so well around here, but are never paid.
 
MikeShayne Jan 9, 2008 05:30 AM
What exactly are you looking to lose, Tsurisuto?
 
Tsurisuto Jan 9, 2008 06:21 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by MikeShayne (Post 3572246)
What exactly are you looking to lose, Tsurisuto?
Bets don't always have to be for money! ;)

I thought it could just be a bit of fun...
 
Delicious Monster Jan 10, 2008 11:41 AM
Yep, turns out I don't know when Wil will decide it's time to release it either. I just work here.
 
MikeShayne Jan 10, 2008 11:41 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by Delicious Monster (Post 3573473)
Yep, turns out I don't know when Wil will decide it's time to release it either. I just work here.
I like your wording. "when Wil will DECIDE IT'S TIME to release it" Perhaps it's ready, and Wi just wants to see if he can make some kind of record for lateness.
 
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