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-   -   Breaking News! DL2 will *not* be released (http://forums.macnn.com/106/delicious-monster/365418/breaking-news-dl2-will-not-released/)

 
-LD Apr 1, 2008 07:05 PM
content removed, incorrect info
*removed*

I am removing this as we know it's not true now.
 
64stang06 Apr 1, 2008 07:48 PM
You know, this really wouldn't surprise me, considering AppleInsider posted a preview last month stating it would ship in March. Yet here we are, April 1 and nothing yet but a twitter page full of posts from Wil about anything except DL status.
 
MikeShayne Apr 1, 2008 09:18 PM
So, should I just email the email on the delicious-monster webpage to demand my refund or does Wil have a personal email to contact?

I hope LD is doing this to provoke a response from the 2005-2008 Failure to Launch Award Recipient.
 
anyrandomthing Apr 1, 2008 09:59 PM
i dont believe this. im sure there will be plenty more delays, but it's already been stated that the betas are moving along.
 
turtle777 Apr 1, 2008 10:59 PM
Sounds about as believable as as the statement that DL2 is shipping "soon".

Whatever that means ;)

-t
 
64stang06 Apr 1, 2008 11:05 PM
Crappy as it is, even Vista finally shipped.
 
turtle777 Apr 2, 2008 09:46 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by 64stang06 (Post 3632418)
Crappy as it is, even Vista finally shipped.
Yeah, but it didn't get shipley'd ;)

-t
 
-LD Apr 2, 2008 11:33 AM
*removed*

See above.
 
anyrandomthing Apr 2, 2008 01:56 PM
it's not that i find this claim utterly inconceivable, it's just that there have already been a handful of delays matched with silence from DM. while it is odd we've gone through the entire alleged release month and heard nothing, it certainly isnt that odd in comparison to the past.

if another two weeks go buy without a word, i'll believe this much more. it would be pretty sad, were this to be true.
 
turtle777 Apr 2, 2008 02:09 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by anyrandomthing (Post 3632699)
if another two weeks go buy without a word, i'll believe this much more. it would be pretty sad, were this to be true.
Why ? It can't get much worse.

As it stands now, DL2 will probably never ship.

If someone pays money for it, they for sure would want to earn it back. So chances are much better to get it actually out the door at some point.

-t
 
anyrandomthing Apr 2, 2008 05:43 PM
well what im wondering at this point: will apple revoke the design award and give it to the runner up? see, this is the problem with apple giving awards to ultra-alpha software. it seemed like an awful idea to begin with, and it's really unfair to developers who actually create real products, rather than vaporware.

@ turtle. i dont know exactly what youre saying here, (it wont ship... but it will?) but all im saying is that this silence isnt entirely atypical. a few more weeks of silence will seal it for me.
 
Horsepoo!!! Apr 3, 2008 01:06 AM
The only thing I care about right now is that the people that worked on the project got paid. If Adam Betts and everyone else that contributed to this thing got paid, that's all that counts.

I don't care if Wil doesn't get his Lamborghini.
 
MikeShayne Apr 3, 2008 03:51 AM
Well I emailed the help@delicious-monster.com address earlier about some help with a refund. Who thinks I'll get a response?
 
anyrandomthing Apr 3, 2008 04:15 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by MikeShayne (Post 3633182)
Well I emailed the help@delicious-monster.com address earlier about some help with a refund. Who thinks I'll get a response?
well remember this was posted by wil with the original offering:

"To make my lawyers happy, I should mention that, SHOULD SOME unforeseen complication arise and we never ship Delicious Library 2, this deal is null and void. Sorry."

wil seems fair though, so he might give you your money back and just blacklist your serial for 1.6.7 or something. it think you have a 50/50 chance. well, 40/60. ok, 30/70.
 
plover Apr 3, 2008 01:42 PM
I'm reluctant to jump into this (sometimes heated) conversation, but I've been following this release for some time now because I really want to use this app. Isn't that a new "coming soon" note at the top of the website?
And even if it isn't new, wouldn't they remove that "free upgrade" from their website asap if the release was now not in the works?
 
anyrandomthing Apr 3, 2008 02:21 PM
it certainly is new. this is exactly why i was waiting to jump to any conclusions.

but, anyway, again they say "coming soon" when you think they might learn no one at DM understands what the word "soon" means.

edit: the very fact that they went through the trouble of posting a note makes it seem it surely wont be out in the next few days. obviously, if there would be little point in writing up that short piece and making the graphics if it would be out shortly. they know it's gonna be a little while and they want to attract customers as long as possible.
 
hmdonald Apr 3, 2008 03:30 PM
Delicious Monster has said that they're still working on DL2
See the below screen clip from their website: Delicious Library

http://60s6ta.bay.livefilestore.com/...enSnapz001.gif
 
MikeShayne Apr 3, 2008 03:48 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by MikeShayne (Post 3632346)
I hope LD is doing this to provoke a response from the 2005-2008 Failure to Launch Award Recipient.
Looks like it worked, sorta. Either that or Shipley is trying to sucker as many people as possible into buying DL1 at this point since he knows DL2 isn't coming.
 
wjsdelicious Apr 5, 2008 12:32 AM
This is a lie, and it's not even a funny lie. Delicious Monster is my livelihood and my life, and your idiocy is hurting it.

Delicious Monster is alive and very well. We are in beta right now for Delicious Library 2, and I am very happy with the beta so far. I am also personally very well-off and wouldn't need to sell this company even if my sales were nothing. I can prove this statement, and if any journalist wants to contact me and set the record straight I will provide documentation of my finances, as well as a look at the demo.

I have had up to two programmers in the past at Delicious Monster, and I have also worked alone as a programmer for much of the development of Delicious Library 1 and 2. I have discovered I'd rather program alone, but I do need support people to answer e-mail and the like. I originally hired both Lucas and Mike as support people, but both wanted to move into programming, and I taught them as best I could. They left when they had learned enough to leave the nest, which is how it should be. I have two wonderful support people right now who can't program a line, so I consider myself in an ideal position.

If any of you are duped by the original poster's lie and want to see for yourself, please just write to support@delicious-monster.com and we'll get you into the beta, and you can play with Delicious Library 2 yourself. It is very solid, very fast, and really pretty damn cool. (I would think that you would wonder why all the websites I list on delicious-monster.com have given me glowing reviews on the beta if it's really "too buggy to ever ship.")

For the guy who started this, and is perpetuating it, and certain others: I have to warn you that what you have done constitutes libel - you have lied knowingly and expressly to hurt me. I will be contacting my lawyers and subpoenaing your identity from this forum, although I am sure you've just used an alias. If I find you, though, you are going to court. Hope you enjoy it.

If the original poster is so certain of his facts, he should stand up and post his real name and contact information. If he does not do so, I urge the rest of you to consider the source. There are six billion people in the world, one of them woke up on April Fool's day and decided to take the "famous" Wil Shipley down a peg from behind a safe wall of anonymity.

The original poster has vague rumors posted on April Fool's Day.


I remain,
Wil Shipley
Chief Monster, Delicious Monster Software, LLC
Delicious Library
e-mail: wjs@delicious-monster.com
cell: 206.619.2561
 
MikeShayne Apr 5, 2008 12:40 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by wjsdelicious (Post 3634194)
I would think that you would wonder why all the websites I list on delicious-monster.com have given me glowing reviews on the beta if it's really "too buggy to ever ship."
To be fair most of those links are from October of last year and the thread did finally get a response from you.
 
wjsdelicious Apr 5, 2008 01:04 AM
Yes. Another way to get a response would be to WRITE ME instead of posting lies about my company on a forum somewhere. Also, that way wouldn't land you in court.

Luckily, with Larry's contact information and the incredibly inflammatory and clearly biased stuff he has posted about my company on his personal website (Larry @ Teamoverkill), it won't be at all hard to prove that he had an intent to injure me, which is one of the three tests of libel. (1: Is it false? 2: Does the person know it's false? 3: Are they saying it to hurt you?)

-Wil
 
anyrandomthing Apr 5, 2008 01:34 AM
Well now that we know that DL2 is in fact still coming, we as a consequence understand -LD telling us something untrue. However, I don't think that it is necessarily libel; that is to say intentionally making untrue statements in writing meant to deceive. It is possible -LD was told this from someone claiming to be "an insider." In that case, it isn't so explicitly libel; it is -LD reporting something he has heard, that's not illegal.

However, if we think about this reasonably, it's pretty clear what -LD said is a bunch of bullshit; it's really unlikely he have anyone contact him, and he wanted to piss people off. And while it's true this could certainly hurt DM, at this point it's cleared up.

Although my opinion isn't worth much, I feel like throwing in my two cents. Wil has been clear he's ****ing rich, he doesn't need any money. maybe -LD is more rich, and it's worth suing, but chances are they dont live in the same state (or country) and it would involve federal courts or other complicated legal crao, etc, basically a lot of hassle for wil to actually press charges. So I don't think -LD has much to fear, but nevertheless, what he did was (if in fact authentic libel) ****ed up; wil has posted his cell number, and if I were you I'd call or write a nice letter apologizing for what you've caused.

on the other end of things, this post is already 5 days old; it would have been in wil's best interest (and others deceived) to have been a little more upfront about this being patently untrue. certainly wil doesnt have any obligation to do anything, but the silence over a period of 5 days really fanned the flames; this probably could have been avoided with an earlier response.

anyway, that's my opinion.

Edit: didn't see wil's next response, but regardless...
 
MDNZ Apr 5, 2008 01:37 AM
Defamation Law
Original Poster (Larry) may wish to brief oneself with Defamation, Libel and Slander law
 
luomat Apr 5, 2008 01:47 AM
Your opinion irrelevant in a court of law
Quote, Originally Posted by anyrandomthing (Post 3634211)
Well now that we know that DL2 is in fact still coming, we as a consequence understand -LD telling us something untrue.
Sure... those of you still reading the thread now.

How many people came, read the initial post, and then passed along the information to others, and will never see the post because they've moved on to something else?

Quote, Originally Posted by anyrandomthing (Post 3634211)
However, I don't think that it is necessarily libel; that is to say intentionally making untrue statements in writing meant to deceive. It is possible -LD was told this from someone claiming to be "an insider." In that case, it isn't so explicitly libel; it is -LD reporting something he has heard, that's not illegal.
That sounds like exactly the sort of things we'd like to sort out in a court of law.

Quote, Originally Posted by anyrandomthing (Post 3634211)
However, if we think about this reasonably, it's pretty clear what -LD said is a bunch of bullshit; it's really unlikely he have anyone contact him, and he wanted to piss people off. And while it's true this could certainly hurt DM, at this point it's cleared up.
Can't un-ring the bell.

Imagine if this was a restautant review in a newspaper followed by an errata 3 days later:

"Sure, I told a bunch of people that there are rats in your kitchen and they poop in the soup, but clearly that's not true, so no harm, no foul."

Quote, Originally Posted by anyrandomthing (Post 3634211)
Although my opinion isn't worth much, I feel like throwing in my two cents.
What you do with your opinion is clearly up to you, but you seem to misunderstand the potential damage this could do.

Quote, Originally Posted by anyrandomthing (Post 3634211)
Wil has been clear he's ****ing rich, he doesn't need any money. maybe -LD is more rich, and it's worth suing, but chances are they dont live in the same state (or country) and it would involve federal courts or other complicated legal crao, etc, basically a lot of hassle for wil to actually press charges. So I don't think -LD has much to fear, but nevertheless, what he did was (if in fact authentic libel) ****ed up; wil has posted his cell number, and if I were you I'd call or write a nice letter apologizing for what you've caused.
That would be nice. It would, however, do jack squat about the potential damage done by something said that could cause damage to another person's livelihood.

Quote, Originally Posted by anyrandomthing (Post 3634211)
on the other end of things, this post is already 5 days old; it would have been in wil's best interest (and others deceived) to have been a little more upfront about this being patently untrue. certainly wil doesnt have any obligation to do anything, but the silence over a period of 5 days really fanned the flames; this probably could have been avoided with an earlier response.
It's not up to Wil (or any software developer) to patrol these cesspools of forums where people spout off with little or no knowledge to track down what people are saying.

Any responsible level of effort would have uncovered that this was a complete pile of bull.


ps - I don't know any of the people involved and IANAL.
 
anyrandomthing Apr 5, 2008 02:03 AM
thanks loumat, for playing that essential role of qualifying every comment i already qualified, and then making it seem as if statements were not qualified by me.
 
johnyutah Apr 5, 2008 02:07 AM
the world's smallest violin playing just for Wil
Awwww. Looks like Wil Shipley has got his knickers all up in a twist. i guess promising a product for October 2007 and not delivering anything 6 months later isn't a successful marketing strategy after all! Maybe if he spent less time selling DL 1.6.6 with Vapor-Enhancement-Upgrade attached there would be time for finishing DL2. Oh, but he doesn't need the money.

I know several people who've sent multiple emails to DM.com and gotten no reply, myself included. The lack of public communication and this ridiculous recent update of "buy now and maybe you'll get an upgrade later" is just offensive to those who purchased the app in December and have been waiting for 4 months for any sign of life - not rumors about the beta program.

And how does "People who bought version one before December 1, 2007 will have to pay $20 for the upgrade; sorry guys, we gotta eat." jive with "I am also personally very well-off and wouldn't need to sell this company even if my sales were nothing. I can prove this statement, and if any journalist wants to contact me and set the record straight I will provide documentation of my finances." ? Who cares? How petty and insecure can you possibly be that you need to broadcast your personal wealth?

Having said all that, I think DL is a great app, :) I just don't care for Wil from what I've read of his - it's easy for me to separate the two - and if DL2 doesn't turn out to be the next Duke Nukem Forever, it has a promising feature-set and could be awesome. This LD character is a schmuck, I won't stand up for him, and posting lies as the truth is a pretty dirty thing to do.

I've posted my opinion, I am definitely bitter that DL2 hasn't been delivered as promised, and I whole-heartedly invite you to disagree with me, but damaging Delicious Monster with intent and with malice is pretty dumb on LD's part. Apparently that's what it took to get a response from Wil. Potential real bummer for all parties involved.

End rant.
 
ness Apr 5, 2008 02:35 AM
WTF. Are you all SERIOUS?

SINCE WHEN HAS SOFTWARE, EVER, EVER, EVER, IN THE HISTORY OF ALL THAT IS TEH INTERNET and TUBES, EVAR been released on time?

Get a ****ing life. Since when has replying to lame macnn posts meant *ANYTHING*?

Move on, there's nothing to see here. When the software is out, then it's released. Until then, try masturbating (you're obviously single or your significant other doesn't like you), writing your own software, or doing your taxes (hint, they're due in ten days and if you file on time you'll get your $600 rebate check).
 
turtle777 Apr 5, 2008 02:59 AM
I think everyone in this thread is full of sh!t, including myself :) ;)

-t
 
johnyutah Apr 5, 2008 03:02 AM
i know i am.

off to masturbate to my taxes. errr - what?
 
alex_kac Apr 5, 2008 03:25 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by ness (Post 3634239)
WTF. Are you all SERIOUS?
SINCE WHEN HAS SOFTWARE, EVER, EVER, EVER, IN THE HISTORY OF ALL THAT IS TEH INTERNET and TUBES, EVAR been released on time?
Usually my software is on time. But then 2007 and 2008 so far have been really bad about making my estimates come true. But before then!
 
hliriani Apr 5, 2008 03:53 AM
Didn't it kinda smell funny when some totally unrelated guy (or so we think) to Delicious Monster, posts about their company closing, and a load of other formal, important stuff? That's usually left to the company to publicize, unless they're some dirty, stealing, scum, which -LD was sorta implying.

As for Wil, well are people not allowed to live lives? Why can't he brag about his money, his macbook air, or his fish dinners, it's not as if you're required to read it if you don't want to...

And besides did you all wake up every morning wishing DL2 would be released? I mean it's a piece of software for crying out loud, but so many people seem to use that as a medium to hate on Delicious Monster.
 
turtle777 Apr 5, 2008 04:24 AM
Oh hliriani, please stop being reasonable. We are in teh intarwebs, after all. ;)

-t
 
REBELinBLUE Apr 5, 2008 06:25 AM
wow seriously people need the grow the hell up. I know I said in this topic http://forums.macnn.com/106/deliciou...be-long-now/3/ that I understand why people are frustrated but there is no bloody excuse what so ever for down right lies and personal abuse. Will is well within his right to have his own personal blog, twitter and even personal life, yeah shock horror I know, just because he does so that doesn't mean he isn't working on DL.

Will, thanks for coming here and clarifying, but I will point out if you are going to have these forums people are obviously going to come here to ask questions and then get annoyed when there is no response. After all it isn't as if macnn just created this section of their forum off their own backs, your company asked them to DELICIOUS BLOG: Hey, it's a forum. Might it be an idea to ask them to remove it if you have no intent on using it?

As a programmer myself (bespoke) I understand the problems you encounter which is why I have not been screaming, shouting and posting abusive rubbish like a lot of people here have been doing, but I can understand why they are frustrated (again, that doesn't excuse crap like this topic), because there has been total silence for quite some time. Nothing posted on your forum, nothing on the Delicious Monster site and nothing on the Delicious Monster blog, yes there have been bits in your twitter and articles on wired, apple insider etc but when people want to find out about a product they visit that products website, not search dozens of possible third party websites for any mention of progress on that product. Now that you have posted links to these articles on the DM front page I expect the noise will die down a bit.
 
wjsdelicious Apr 5, 2008 07:07 AM
REBELinBLUE:

I certainly agree it stinks to have a forum like this and have nobody from my company checking it. It was a duty I delegated unsuccessfully, but at this point I have to figure out how to rectify the situation.

Obviously if I spent my time answering support questions on forums myself DL2 would be even later, and nobody wants that. But if I requested that MacNN close the forums now, probably there would be some conspiracy theories about how I didn't like what was being said and so stifled everyone.

For the meantime I will tell Terry to check these forums, but we have our own internal bug-tracking system right now (FogBugz) that we are switching to, and it's kind of hard to do support in several places at once. Not impossible, but a lot more work.

-Wil
 
-LD Apr 6, 2008 03:41 PM
Been gone for a couple days. Exciting

At the time I posted the original comments, it was under information I had received at the time. I wasn't simply making something up for the sake of bothering Wil. I have better things to do. I was filling the silence with whatever news I could ascertain.

Apparently that turned out to be wrong according to Wil. That's fine. I claimed it as reliable, I didn't claim it as absolute. We know now it wasn't reliable. So it goes.

I won't apologize for posting what I thought was good info. It's like any other rumor site. They get info, they try to qualify it as best as possible, they post it. I did the same. Just like rumor sites, that turned out not to be the case here.

As I know many others have had no success contacting DM or Wil for info, I didn't figure I'd even try. If he had info he wanted to share, he would have done so by now through the others who have contacted him or through his blog or the DM blog (or website).

I know you are all hot and bothered. That wasn't exactly my intention in posting this info. I'm not a lawyer, and neither is Wil, but this isn't libel, it's simply wrong info that I posted. It doesn't meet the legal definition, even what Wil posted. I did not know this was false. I thought it was true based on what I thought was reliable info. My source was wrong, or lied to me. I don't know which.

The US is too litigious as it is. There's really no need for it in this case. It would be a waste of everyone's time and money.

Wil apparently has my contact info. He can email me if he wants to discuss this like adults and we'll sort out our differences.

To the members of this forum, I will apologize. Not because I posted info I thought was correct, but that the info turned out to be wrong. My source misled me, and you.

But apparently very few of you believed it anyway, so I guess you all were right.
 
lucidinferno Apr 6, 2008 09:53 PM
Wil, take your time. Make sure it's a great product before it's shipped. Look at Nintendo. They constantly have delays, the customers moan and complain (I'm one of them), and it's the end of the world because Nintendo missed another release date. Then, when the game finally comes out, all delays are forgotten as they have once again released a superior product. A product that will be enjoyed time and time again, probably by a few generations, with no memory at all about the delay. Take your time, get it right, and enjoy the journey.
 
MDNZ Apr 8, 2008 06:05 PM
Incorrect title
Is it worth closing thread and correction to title.
As LD has removed his incorrect content, DL1.x users that visit this forum will see this and lose all context.
 
turtle777 Apr 9, 2008 12:57 AM
No, it should stay. If people don't take the time to read it all and understand what's going on, they can't be helped. They will draw wrong conclusions sooner or later anyways.

-t
 
jeb20 Apr 9, 2008 03:19 AM
what a bunch of douche bags
I came to this forum to find out what was up with DL2 and was shocked at the petty behavior here. I don't know the developers or the support people but why they give this bullshit the time of day is beyond me. Other then responding to libel ( I hope they give that jerk a good scare) why bother?

this is definitely not a crowd I would want to converse with.

Thus, I am sure this will be my first, and last post here.
 
turtle777 Apr 9, 2008 10:15 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by jeb20 (Post 3636442)
I came to this forum to find out what was up with DL2 and was shocked at the petty behavior here. I don't know the developers or the support people but why they give this bullshit the time of day is beyond me. Other then responding to libel ( I hope they give that jerk a good scare) why bother?

this is definitely not a crowd I would want to converse with.
WHO are you talking about ?

The members here, DM developers and support or the MacNN mods and admins ?

-t
 
alex_kac Apr 9, 2008 05:39 PM
It sounds like he's talking about the OP.
 
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