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-   -   I Kinda Thought Lightning Might Suck: Retraction (http://forums.macnn.com/103/iphone-ipad-and-ipod/497971/i-kinda-thought-lightning-might-suck/)

 
subego Feb 11, 2013 12:17 AM
I Kinda Thought Lightning Might Suck: Retraction
As satisfying as that first "click" was when I plugged in my iPhone 5 on launch day, the little engineer on my shoulder whispered "there is no way this has a useful duty cycle".

Guess they were right, at least with mine. I get no connection now unless I lever the blade up into the socket contacts.


Edit: see my retraction.

Retraction: Lightning Connector - MacNN Forums
 
cgc Feb 11, 2013 10:10 AM
You sure "your not holding it wrong"?
 
mduell Feb 11, 2013 06:00 PM
Brilliant electrical design, dismal mechanical design.
 
cgc Feb 12, 2013 12:35 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by mduell (Post 4216773)
Brilliant electrical design, dismal mechanical design.
Isn't that typical Apple? Version 1 of a lot of their products and services debut with some glaring flaw hidden among the brilliant and beautiful facade of something else. Hopefully, they can quickly fix this and offer a swap out program.
 
growlf Feb 12, 2013 04:10 PM
Or it might be fine.
Two iPad 4s, two iPad minis, and two iPhone 5s. Boatloads of lightning cables, many of them cheap Chinese imports.

Lots of plugging in and unplugging. Satisfying click each time.

Maybe, just maybe, you have a bad connector. Mine have been sat on while plugged in, flipped around in my car while plugged in, and my 10 year old niece regularly steals my devices and works them over.

No lightning connector problems.

Ask me about the TWO broken Mini (Micro?) USB connectors on the Kindle Fires I bought.
 
The Final Dakar Feb 12, 2013 04:18 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by growlf (Post 4216921)
Ask me about the TWO broken Mini (Micro?) USB connectors on the Kindle Fires I bought.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_i2xlyv1yeU...oy+mcclure.jpg
What about the two broken micro USB connectors on the Kindle Fires you bought?!
 
growlf Feb 12, 2013 04:35 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by The Final Dakar (Post 4216923)
What about the two broken micro USB connectors on the Kindle Fires you bought?!
They suck :)

And thank you for asking :)
 
mr_strat Feb 12, 2013 04:41 PM
I've had no problem with Lightning. I daily use a dock (from China) and a charger in the car. No problems.
 
BigJayhawk Feb 12, 2013 04:45 PM
Micro-USB and the older Mini-USB are Horrible
Micro-USB and the older Mini-USB BOTH have two MAJOR flaws:

1) You can't figure out which way to put them in at night (or ANY time you don't want to have to use 2 hands AND 2 eyes to plug them in)

2) The connectors in the devices BREAK LL THE TIME. I've had phones, headphones, battery packs, credit-card readers, etc. and they have had about a 50% failure rate. The little USB Jacks very easily get broken and pushed inside the device (especially when mixed with trying to overcome issue #1 in the dark).
 
tonton Feb 12, 2013 05:46 PM
Is anyone else having a problem? I've got an iPhone 5 and a Nano and absolutely love the mechanical design of the Lightning connector. In my opinion, it's the best connector for any device I've ever owned. Second best would be MagSafe. Apple just knows how to engineer great connectors. Period.

I can't see any way the connector can wear out. Can anyone explain?
 
ibook_steve Feb 12, 2013 09:14 PM
All connectors wear out eventually. It's actually part of a connector's specs: its "cycle count", meaning the number of times it can be plugged/unplugged before it may (or will fail).

I don't have any lightning connectors yet, but my favorite recent connectors are, of course, Magsafe, and mini Displayport/Thunderbolt. Totally satisfying click that I've had zero problems with.

Steve
 
subego Feb 12, 2013 10:24 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by growlf (Post 4216921)
Two iPad 4s, two iPad minis, and two iPhone 5s. Boatloads of lightning cables, many of them cheap Chinese imports.

Lots of plugging in and unplugging. Satisfying click each time.

Maybe, just maybe, you have a bad connector. Mine have been sat on while plugged in, flipped around in my car while plugged in, and my 10 year old niece regularly steals my devices and works them over.

No lightning connector problems.

Ask me about the TWO broken Mini (Micro?) USB connectors on the Kindle Fires I bought.
What's your iPhone usage pattern? How many times a day do you plug it in to charge?
 
subego Feb 12, 2013 11:18 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by tonton (Post 4216942)
I can't see any way the connector can wear out. Can anyone explain?
Basically, every aspect of a connector has some capacity to fail.

Working from the butt-end backwards:

The strain relief can fail, loosening a wire from a contact.

The contact itself can fail (this is usually grot or something)

The locking mechanism can fail on a locking system.

The springs can fail if the contacts are spring-loaded.

If the socket expands a bit (which is what tends to happen after poking a cable in it a few thousand times), it's not going to hold the blade tightly enough, likewise, if the blade has worn down a bit after a few thousand plugs, it's going to no longer fit snugly in the socket.
 
P Feb 13, 2013 05:56 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by BigJayhawk (Post 4216929)
Micro-USB and the older Mini-USB BOTH have two MAJOR flaws:

1) You can't figure out which way to put them in at night (or ANY time you don't want to have to use 2 hands AND 2 eyes to plug them in)

2) The connectors in the devices BREAK LL THE TIME. I've had phones, headphones, battery packs, credit-card readers, etc. and they have had about a 50% failure rate. The little USB Jacks very easily get broken and pushed inside the device (especially when mixed with trying to overcome issue #1 in the dark).
Mini-USB is terrible - that's why they replaced it with Micro-USB. I was of the impression that Micro-USB was better. Part of the design specs for Micro-USB is that the connector on the cable (which is easy to replace) should take the strain and fail first. One of the flaws of Lightning is that the connector on the cable seems to be much more robust and stiff that that in the device.

Regular USB plugs usually have to be tried in both directions before you can fit them. Micro is actually slightly better, as the chamfered-off corners should always be up by design. Mini-USB is of course the opposite way around, with the "horns" going up, contributing to the confusion. Strictly speaking, all USB plugs should have the USB logo on the top, but not all manufacturers follow this.
 
localnet Feb 13, 2013 11:48 AM
All good here...
Two iPads, wife has had hers since a couple of weeks after the release. Still using the original lightning cable. I have had my iPad for a few weeks, no issues with mine either, I can even find the hole in the dark and get her in.:D
 
subego Feb 13, 2013 12:08 PM
Way different use. I have to plug in my iPhone one or more times a day. It averaged three until I got iCloud to stop sucking off the LTE.

That phrasing didn't quite come out like I intended.
 
mduell Feb 13, 2013 06:44 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by cgc (Post 4216881)
Isn't that typical Apple? Version 1 of a lot of their products and services debut with some glaring flaw hidden among the brilliant and beautiful facade of something else. Hopefully, they can quickly fix this and offer a swap out program.
Lightning is v2, v1 was the dock.
 
shifuimam Feb 16, 2013 11:42 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by subego (Post 4217038)
That phrasing didn't quite come out like I intended.
Pretty sure localnet is thinking the same thing. :D
 
subego Feb 20, 2013 05:05 AM
Retraction: Lightning Connector
I shall eat crow. Working the socket over with canned air fixed it.
 
Spheric Harlot Feb 20, 2013 08:43 AM
You might want to append the initial post in the original thread...
 
subego Feb 20, 2013 09:02 AM
If they didn't read it already I'm not going to push them to it.

Christ. Y'all are out for blood.
 
subego Feb 20, 2013 11:15 AM
Let it be noted my attempt to put the retraction on equal footing with the allegation was vetoed by the staff.

It's likely there are people who are no longer reading this thread, so they'll never read the retraction or notice the thread title edit. They aren't being well served IMO.
 
Spheric Harlot Feb 20, 2013 11:52 AM
That makes zero sense whatsoever.

People are exactly as likely to see this thread bumped back to the top as they are a new one, and the title is now different. (In fact, I clicked this thinking it was the new thread, but I couldn't figure out how it would have arrived at 21 replies and wanted to know what had happened.)

And people who happen upon this thread through a search are unlikely to ever see the other one.
 
subego Feb 20, 2013 12:54 PM
The issue isn't people seeing the bump, it's that they've stopped paying attention after the first few posts. If they're not reading a thread anymore, the amount of times it's bumped is irrelevant. If there's no other thread, they never see the retraction.

You posted in the other thread, and this one, so I don't think you're the ideal candidate to test whether the group I'm concerned with sees the title change.

Anyone who found it by search would see my link, which is now 404.
 
Spheric Harlot Feb 20, 2013 01:05 PM
Isn't it awesome how this thread now has a new title? Incorporating the one you created to draw attention? People don't need to click the thread to see that it's different. No need to even follow through.

Well done, despite your worst efforts! :)
 
subego Feb 20, 2013 01:44 PM
Well, even though I know people don't commit my thread titles to memory, nor are they on constant vigilance to see if they've changed, it's nice someone thinks I get that sort of attention.
 
turtle777 Feb 20, 2013 11:26 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by mduell (Post 4216773)
Brilliant electrical design, dismal mechanical design.
I reckon you were talking about subego's outlet :hmm:

-t
 
Spheric Harlot Feb 21, 2013 03:52 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by subego (Post 4218400)
Well, even though I know people don't commit my thread titles to memory, nor are they on constant vigilance to see if they've changed, it's nice someone thinks I get that sort of attention.
Worked for me. And that's kind of what I need to go by.

Why the hell didn't you just edit the initial post here to mention that your problem was lint, and that you solved it by using some compressed air?

Now, it makes absolutely NO sense at all!
 
subego Feb 21, 2013 04:54 AM
As I said, for the benefit of the people who started reading this thread and then stopped. Likewise, I believe the retraction should get equal play. The ass-end of a thread isn't equal play.

As I also said, people who have posted directly in the thread (me, you) aren't the best candidates to test whether the title change is noticeable enough. Regardless, I have a hard time believing a title change is more noticeable than an entirely new thread.

As for the lack of comprehensibility, do you think that may have something to do with content getting deleted? It almost comes off like you're blaming me for not writing with an eye towards getting my thread vaped.
 
P Feb 21, 2013 09:32 AM
The advantage to a title change is for future searchers, who now see the retraction as the first thing they see. These forums have quite a bit of googlejuice, and I frequently find threads from these forms when I search for answers. A second thread could easily be lost.
 
subego Feb 21, 2013 09:42 AM
I see no reason these solutions need be mutually exclusive.
 
mduell Feb 21, 2013 02:59 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by subego (Post 4218302)
I shall eat crow. Working the socket over with canned air fixed it.
Why does this prompt a retraction? Have you ever needed to take a can of air to your dock connectors or USB?
 
subego Feb 21, 2013 03:12 PM
Not after I publicly excoriated the connector design for causing the problem.
 
subego Feb 21, 2013 03:15 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by turtle777 (Post 4218531)
subego's outlet
Where you'll find deals! Deals! DEALS!
 
subego Feb 21, 2013 05:10 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot (Post 4218549)
Worked for me. And that's kind of what I need to go by.
As an aside, when did you start thinking like an American?
 
Spheric Harlot Feb 21, 2013 05:34 PM
Now now, Americans are just people too, you know.
 
The Final Dakar Feb 21, 2013 05:35 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by subego (Post 4218695)
As an aside, when did you start thinking like an American?
Shots fired
 
subego Feb 21, 2013 06:38 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot (Post 4218709)
Now now, Americans are just people too, you know.
Only too well.
 
subego Feb 25, 2013 08:03 AM
Double complete retraction. It's acting up again.
 
turtle777 Feb 25, 2013 09:54 PM
Nobody takes you seriously anymore :p

-t
 
subego Mar 4, 2013 06:55 PM
 
shifuimam Mar 5, 2013 10:44 AM
Is anyone even remotely bothered by the fact that Lighting is literally nothing but USB 2.0 with an extra authentication component added to prevent "unauthorized" third-party accessories?

The 30-pin dock connector provided direct connection to audio and video output. Lightning is exclusively a low-bandwidth serial data connection. All the logic has to be in the accessory, which means much more expensive and complex accessories.

I can't find the link right now, but someone figured out pretty quickly that the iPad Mini can't actually output full HD video. It's upscaling a compressed signal to 1080p, and it looks like crap compared to real HD. I realize that you're not necessarily buying an iOS device for the video output, but Lightning serves no real technological purpose other than to keep things proprietary. At least the original dock connector had some extra features over plain USB.
 
P Mar 5, 2013 11:46 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by shifuimam (Post 4220219)
Is anyone even remotely bothered by the fact that Lighting is literally nothing but USB 2.0 with an extra authentication component added to prevent "unauthorized" third-party accessories?
Little bit - although it should be noted that it also supports a higher charging amperage than USB 2.0 micro USB. I think the point is that it's mainly for charging and the other features are secondary and can be handled through Wifi.

Quote, Originally Posted by shifuimam (Post 4220219)
The 30-pin dock connector provided direct connection to audio and video output. Lightning is exclusively a low-bandwidth serial data connection. All the logic has to be in the accessory, which means much more expensive and complex accessories.
And hopefully cheaper iPhones.

Yeah, I don't think so either.

Quote, Originally Posted by shifuimam (Post 4220219)
I can't find the link right now, but someone figured out pretty quickly that the iPad Mini can't actually output full HD video. It's upscaling a compressed signal to 1080p, and it looks like crap compared to real HD. I realize that you're not necessarily buying an iOS device for the video output, but Lightning serves no real technological purpose other than to keep things proprietary. At least the original dock connector had some extra features over plain USB.
Here's the link. Basically, the point is that Lightning does not have the bandwidth to transmit raw HDMI, so what happens is that the iDevice transmits H.264 video, and then the adapter decodes the H.264 to HDMI. If the source is H.264 video to begin with, the iDevice will just output it raw to the Lightning adapter (that is not in the piece above, but it has been confirmed in discussion threads. If the source is something else, the iDevice will first have to encode it into H.264. For some reason, the one they tested can't encode at 1080p, so it's doing what it can and outputs at 1600*900. Panic doesn't say what device they use to test this, but 1600*900 is more than any device with Lightning except the iPad 4.
 
mduell Mar 5, 2013 09:15 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by shifuimam (Post 4220219)
Is anyone even remotely bothered by the fact that Lighting is literally nothing but USB 2.0 with an extra authentication component added to prevent "unauthorized" third-party accessories?
Where'd you see that the Lightning wire protocol is USB2? All I've seen is that it's a serial bus.
 
subego Mar 5, 2013 10:31 PM
I thought it was absolutely better than 2. The beef was it wasn't as fast as 3.
 
OreoCookie Mar 6, 2013 02:04 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by shifuimam (Post 4220219)
Is anyone even remotely bothered by the fact that Lighting is literally nothing but USB 2.0 with an extra authentication component added to prevent "unauthorized" third-party accessories?
From what I understand, Apple's Lightning connector is more like a »metaconnector« which means Apple can send all sorts of protocols over Lightning cables and not just USB 2.0 signals. The chips (one of them is built into the Apple device, e. g. your iPad mini or iPhone 5) while the other is on the other side of the plug. These chips convert the signal on, say, the host side to »Lightning« where on the other side, the signals are converted into possibly something else (e. g. iPhone-to-AV or iPad mini-to-USB).

The standard USB cable is quite boring, here the chips just negotiate the pin layout, because (1) Lightning connectors can be inserted both ways while USB cannot and (2) Lightning can send additional juice if you connect the USB-Lightning cable to a charger. Things get more complicated if you look at Apple's AV adapter: this thing has its own SoC and 256 MB RAM built in! So essentially Apple can easily use Lightning as a bridge for other protocols, e. g. USB3 (as long as Lightning has enough bandwidth, of course).

Overall, I'm just saying that Lightning isn't just a USB plug with a differently-shape plug on the other end, and the chips in the cable have a clear technical purpose (negotiating the pin layout and establishing the protocol used to transmit the data). For instance, Apple should be able to implement USB3 connections over Lightning even though Lightning is missing one pin (USB3 has 9 while Lightning has 8).

For the consumer on the other hand, the added complexity means cables and accessories will be more expensive, at least initially.
 
OreoCookie Mar 6, 2013 02:05 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by subego (Post 4220356)
I thought it was absolutely better than 2. The beef was it wasn't as fast as 3.
USB3 isn't currently needed with iOS devices since the flash storage used there reaches transfer rates of ~20 MB/s. This is lower than the theoretical limit of USB2.
 
subego Mar 6, 2013 02:03 PM
Makes sense.

As an aside, why is no one laughing at me about the pocket lint thing? That was pretty damn stupid.
 
The Final Dakar Mar 6, 2013 02:38 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by subego (Post 4220449)
Makes sense.

As an aside, why is no one laughing at me about the pocket lint thing? That was pretty damn stupid.
Real world conditions, bro. I don't think it's unreasonable.
 
subego Mar 6, 2013 03:42 PM
I should have caught that though.
 
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