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-   -   Slowly Deteriorating Touch ID (http://forums.macnn.com/103/iphone-ipad-and-ipod/507729/slowly-deteriorating-touch-id/)

 
subego Jan 24, 2014 04:45 PM
Slowly Deteriorating Touch ID
For me, it had become worse than useless. I forgot who suggested wiping the stored prints and reentering them, but that worked like a charm.

My guess is the "recognition improvement" algorithm gets overloaded with data at some point and gets some form of paralysis.
 
ghporter Jan 25, 2014 08:23 AM
I was going to suggest physically cleaning the sensor on a regular basis, but that might actually worsen the "improvement algorithm overload" problem.

I assume this is a problem common with the iPhone 5s. Which leads me to believe that "maybe Apple should tweak the code" (or otherwise take action) to shift from "improving" the sensor's performance to "optimizing" the sensor's identification of a single user.

Whatever; I'm glad you got the issue sorted, but I think it's bad that you have to essentially do regular software maintenance on your iTouch. That's counter to Apple principles.
 
subego Jan 25, 2014 02:46 PM
Very much so, but also totally in character with the OS this time around.

If the rumors of the bigger iPhones pan out, it makes more sense why Apple bit off such a huge bite with iOS 7. They're laying the groundwork for resolution independence.
 
Spheric Harlot Jan 25, 2014 03:04 PM
I've found that briefly wiping the sensor and/or my fingertip will work every time.

It doesn't seem to like moisture, for one.
 
subego Jan 25, 2014 03:30 PM
It consistently has trouble immediately after I wash my hands.

There's evidence this is a different situation though. There was a short phase before I reset where the right thumb was working about one time in 10. After three or four failures, rather than put in my passcode (because that is for animals), I'd go left thumb and it would work. Until this point, I almost never used the left thumb. Maybe one time in 1,000.

So, the clues are:

1) Never used print works fine
2) Always used print is useless
3) TouchID adds to its fingerprint database as you use it

Probable solution: Colonel Cook, in the iOS team leader's office, with a milestone.
 
turtle777 Jan 25, 2014 09:20 PM
Yes, it's gotten useless for me as well. I have already wiped my prints and redid them. It still performs worse than in the beginning.

My latest attempt is to train the same finger TWICE. It's been going better so far.

I'm pretty sure something is wrong with iOS 7. It just shouldn't get worse over time.

-t
 
Cold Warrior Jan 25, 2014 09:27 PM
When winter hit I noticed the reads got very inconsistent. Rather than trying to retrain it, I just registered my fingers as if they were additional fingers--keeping the originals, setting up another couple in finger slots 3-4.

Perfect ever since.
 
subego Jan 26, 2014 01:47 PM
There was winter overlap too. I wondered how much this got tested outside Israel and Cali.
 
subego Jan 30, 2014 04:29 PM
Now it's getting sucktastic again. There goes that theory.

Winter theory still goes disproven, though.
 
Cold Warrior Jan 30, 2014 09:17 PM
Don't retrain, enter as new prints.
 
turtle777 Jan 30, 2014 09:38 PM
I entered my thumb 3 times as new prints in the last 4 weeks. What gives...

-t
 
Spheric Harlot Jan 31, 2014 05:07 AM
It's a little spotty, here. It can't be training, because it's instantaneous most of the time, and then, sometimes, it just won't take. An hour later — perfect recognition of all fingers.

Overall still very happy with this - yet.
 
subego Jan 31, 2014 03:13 PM
It seems to have cycles for me too. It'll work fine, then not.

I'm not unhappy, per se, but it went from "holy shit feature" to "v1.0".
 
Charles Martin Jan 31, 2014 04:22 PM
Working for me
I can only post my own experience, but its been working flawlessly for me for over two months now. I occasionally get a "try again," but that's when I'm holding my finger at a very odd angle.

I've seen elsewhere where someone suggested you wash your hands and set your preferred fingers (maybe 2 fingers) ... then get your hands a bit dirty (normal oil/sweat I mean) and set them again as three and four. I haven't needed to do it (I have a woman's hands, m'lord, and rarely get them anything more than greasy), but maybe that would help some of you other guys who are having the issue.
 
christ Jan 31, 2014 04:36 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by subego (Post 4265443)
It consistently has trouble immediately after I wash my hands.

There's evidence this is a different situation though. There was a short phase before I reset where the right thumb was working about one time in 10. After three or four failures, rather than put in my passcode (because that is for animals), I'd go left thumb and it would work. Until this point, I almost never used the left thumb. Maybe one time in 1,000.

So, the clues are:

1) Never used print works fine
2) Always used print is useless
3) TouchID adds to its fingerprint database as you use it
This is precisely my experience too.

I reenter my most used digit about once a month.
 
Oneota Jan 31, 2014 04:41 PM
I just wish you could set a brief period where you didn't have to re-unlock your phone, like you can with a more typical passcode. Sometimes I lock my 5S only to find out 10 seconds later that there was something else I needed to do. With all the Touch ID issues I have, it would be the bee's knees to not have to go through all the hassle of unlocking my phone if I literally *just* locked it.
 
davidlfoster Jan 31, 2014 05:09 PM
Works for 1 day
It works for me about a day. Even if I train multiple fingers. Then it doesn't.

Touch ID, for me anyway, is useless.
 
subego Jan 31, 2014 05:40 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by chas_m (Post 4266054)
I can only post my own experience, but its been working flawlessly for me for over two months now. I occasionally get a "try again," but that's when I'm holding my finger at a very odd angle.

I've seen elsewhere where someone suggested you wash your hands and set your preferred fingers (maybe 2 fingers) ... then get your hands a bit dirty (normal oil/sweat I mean) and set them again as three and four. I haven't needed to do it (I have a woman's hands, m'lord, and rarely get them anything more than greasy), but maybe that would help some of you other guys who are having the issue.
Florida?

This lends credence to the theory this wasn't tested in places with actual weather.
 
jpdalamar Jan 31, 2014 06:26 PM
Here's the fix!!!!
So Steve Gibson from GRC found out how to fix this problem, and to make Touch ID incredibly accurate. It is outline perfectly simply in this youtube video: How to Overtrain Apple's Touch ID: Security Now 440 - YouTube

I heard about this on Security Now! on the TWiT network.

Hope this helps!
 
turtle777 Feb 1, 2014 01:01 AM
I'm not sure that this is a solution.

I actually overtrained my thumb that way back in October.
Nonetheless, in Jan, TouchID became so bad that I deleted all prints and started over.

So, there are factors beyond overtraining that kill effective recognition.

-t
 
aardman Feb 1, 2014 09:50 AM
third imprinting was a charm
My first imprint started to 'fade' (metaphorically) and became unusable after about a week.

Tried again, cleared everything. Second imprint also faded after about a week.

Third imprint, for some reason is going strong for a month now at least. No noticeable fade.

Maybe the quality of imprint matters and it's a random outcome of the imprinting process algorithm. Who knows what affects it? --The condition of your finger at the time, the position of the various fingerprint snapshots taken during imprinting, the ambient temperature and humidity.

My best advice is keep trying until you get an imprint that takes.

Sorry for my made up terminology.
 
subego Feb 1, 2014 07:54 PM
What's even more obnoxious is every now and again the sensor refuses to acknowledge my fingers are even fingers.

No "try again". Nothing.
 
Wingsy Feb 2, 2014 09:31 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by jpdalamar (Post 4266065)
So Steve Gibson from GRC found out how to fix this problem, and to make Touch ID incredibly accurate. It is outline perfectly simply in this youtube video: How to Overtrain Apple's Touch ID: Security Now 440 - YouTube

I heard about this on Security Now! on the TWiT network.

Hope this helps!
Yeah, it sure did. My right middle finger gradually erodes, and I've retrained it a couple of times over the past few months. I just tried this technique and now my rt middle gets a hit every single time. (It was a challenge to get even the first hit when I started this, but gradually it got better & better.)
 
subego Feb 2, 2014 10:07 PM
Because Leo's a dick, I stopped watching Security Now. Can someone provide a summary?


I have the feeling I did this soon after getting my iPhone. With two slots on my main print (right thumb). It still ended up dying. The first indications were in November, when the weather started getting cold.
 
Spheric Harlot Feb 3, 2014 06:18 AM
It's just an extremely long-winded and terribly unwatchable version of what I discovered back in October.

http://forums.macnn.com/103/iphone-i...-id-recognize/
 
subego Feb 3, 2014 06:33 AM
Unwatchable compared to other shows about computer security?
 
Spheric Harlot Feb 3, 2014 07:15 AM
Six minutes of barely relevant (if that) meandering from a guy who just isn't a good speaker for twenty seconds of content?

How does that compare? I don't watch shows about computer security, but if the subject were relevant to me, I would probably be pressed for time and just as annoyed to have it wasted.
 
subego Feb 3, 2014 04:10 PM
If you're in a hurry, then computer security isn't for you. The shit's complicated. :P

Seriously, this is both the bane and boon of "new media". The normal paradigm is a show about computer security isn't done by the best computer security guy, it's by a TV guy who knows something about security.

Steve isn't a TV guy, but he knows his security. If the goods are important to you, he's got them.

Without seeing it, my guess as to the problem is Steve often thinks he's figured out some big mystery. For weeks he pimped he had found the secret to good health. It was a low-carb diet. We'd all kinda heard of that. He's a body-hacker, so he had interesting tidbits to add, but I felt like "I wasted an hour for this?" at the end.

OTOH, he invented (or if he wasn't the first, the only to public domain it) the SQRL system, which should eliminate user IDs and passwords for websites. This will not only make logging in much easier, and stop normies from using "12345" as passwords, it eliminates the website needing to store the password. The site gets hacked, there are no passwords to steal.

This is slick enough you don't care if the guy meanders.
 
subego Feb 14, 2014 02:58 AM
I wonder how it'd do if it needed to read this side of my thumb.

http://i.imgur.com/Pm6aQGj.jpg


OMFG! People will totally steal my print now!
 
DCJ001 Feb 14, 2014 04:15 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by ghporter (Post 4265412)
Whatever; I'm glad you got the issue sorted, but I think it's bad that you have to essentially do regular software maintenance on your iTouch. That's counter to Apple principles.
Apple neither makes a product nor a feature that Apple calls "iTouch."
 
turtle777 Feb 14, 2014 05:38 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by DCJ001 (Post 4267179)
Apple neither makes a product nor a feature that Apple calls "iTouch."
I always cringe when people refer to their iPod Touch as iTouch.

-t
 
ghporter Feb 14, 2014 07:22 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by DCJ001 (Post 4267179)
Apple neither makes a product nor a feature that Apple calls "iTouch."
I know that. I'm trying to figure out why I typed that, since the OP didn't mention that he was dealing with an iPod Touch (and I think he's talking about an iPhone 5s). In any case, I appreciate your tact in pointing out my error.
 
subego Feb 14, 2014 08:07 PM
We're talking about TouchID. I'm guessing that's where it came from.
 
ghporter Feb 15, 2014 10:32 AM
Most likely. And noting the time I posted it, I was likely in a rush.
 
subego Mar 3, 2014 12:35 AM
I'm so used to it ****ing up now, it will work, I'll have an unlocked phone, but I'll keep tapping the home key going "unlock, dammit!"

Contrast that with my initial few months, where it worked so well I stopped seeing the lock screen. My thumb had unlocked it as I was getting it out of my pocket.
 
Cold Warrior Mar 3, 2014 06:54 AM
AI posted a few days ago that an iOS update is in the works to fix touchid deterioration. It stinks our fixes haven't held up for yours.
 
subego Mar 3, 2014 06:30 PM
About freaking time.
 
subego Mar 12, 2014 09:33 PM
My brief experience with 7.1 is it's working again, but it's slower.
 
osiris Mar 13, 2014 02:44 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by subego (Post 4270023)
My brief experience with 7.1 is it's working again, but it's slower.
Touch ID stopped working for me - I had to redo my thumb 2-3 times a week. After the recent update it's been great.

May I suggest you do a rescan of your thumb - use two touch ID slots so you have two for the one thumb, my thumb is pretty chewed up/rough too but not as bad (damn what do you do with that thing?);)
 
subego Apr 12, 2014 08:16 PM
After more extensive use, I'd say it's close to its former glory. Moisture still throws it, but I'm returning to the point where I rarely see the lock screen.
 
turtle777 Apr 12, 2014 08:30 PM
I still see it in about 1 out of 10 attempts.
Completely deleted the old prints and started from scratch.

It's much better than before the update, but nowhere near as good as in the beginning.

Moisture (even a little bit) makes it miss way too much.

-t
 
subego Apr 12, 2014 08:44 PM
I'm definitely having better luck. Not counting moisture, which is mostly after I wash my hands, I'm having failures in the 1 in 50 to 1 in 100 range.

1 in 100+ was my failure rate out of the box.
 
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