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-   -   MacPro - Still No Thunderbolt (COME ON ALREADY) (http://forums.macnn.com/65/mac-desktops/463731/macpro-still-no-thunderbolt-come-already/)

 
Eden Aurora Apr 25, 2012 08:46 PM
MacPro - Still No Thunderbolt (COME ON ALREADY)
I'm a Mac Pro user whose been waiting (seems like for years) to upgrade to the latest model. One of the things i was looking forward to was Thunderbolt. I have a ton of data and transferring to external hard drives takes hours and hours. Thunderbolt is going to be my best friend. Apple started updating all their computer lines with thunderbolt many moons ago and i kept on waiting and waiting....and i'm still waiting.

So now i'm throwing this out there into cyberspace, COME ON APPLE, release the new MacPro's already!!!

Firewire 800 is a joke that's no longer funny. We need THUNDERBOLT, and Blu-Ray burning capability...but i'll just settle for thunder at the moment.
 
jmiddel Apr 25, 2012 10:25 PM
It's been a year and 3 quarters since the last release of the MP Some folks even predict its demise. I find it hard to believe that Apple would let down the very people who made Macs so successful, the professionals who do the intensive graphics, video and audio stuff, which needs big desktop machines for storage, memory and cards. Agree on the FW thing, only ever used it to connect lap to desktop.
 
mduell Apr 26, 2012 01:06 AM
What are you looking for that's available in Tbolt but not PCIe?
 
Waragainstsleep Apr 26, 2012 04:50 AM
There is always Fibre channel. There always was.
 
mduell Apr 26, 2012 03:58 PM
FC is well beyond the typical Mac Pro use.
 
Waragainstsleep Apr 26, 2012 07:29 PM
eSATA then?
 
AvisNocturna May 3, 2012 06:23 AM
I think a new Mac Pro IS coming, Apple will not discontinue it yet like the Xserve in the last year.

But for most customers who bought a Mac Pro 3 or 4 years ago an iMac is the perfect replacement. Sure, there are customers who need a Mac Pro but over time it will be very few.
 
Spheric Harlot May 3, 2012 06:27 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by mduell (Post 4165136)
What are you looking for that's available in Tbolt but not PCIe?
*crickets chirping*


Exactly.

AFAIK, Thunderbolt cannot be implemented with the old chipsets, so it makes no sense to do an interim redesign *just* to add Thunderbolt, since it has almost nothing to offer over the internal slots, anyway.

It will come with the next re-design, for which the processors are now finally available.
 
Eug May 3, 2012 04:49 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by mduell (Post 4165136)
What are you looking for that's available in Tbolt but not PCIe?
The ability to plug the same peripheral into your laptop?

The ironic part is that people keep harping on about how Thunderbolt, like FW 800, is a true pro feature and Apple's great for promoting it. And then you look at the Mac Pros...
 
cgc May 3, 2012 07:16 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by Eden Aurora (Post 4165110)
I'm a Mac Pro user whose been waiting (seems like for years) to upgrade to the latest model. One of the things i was looking forward to was Thunderbolt. I have a ton of data and transferring to external hard drives takes hours and hours. Thunderbolt is going to be my best friend. Apple started updating all their computer lines with thunderbolt many moons ago and i kept on waiting and waiting....and i'm still waiting.

So now i'm throwing this out there into cyberspace, COME ON APPLE, release the new MacPro's already!!!

Firewire 800 is a joke that's no longer funny. We need THUNDERBOLT, and Blu-Ray burning capability...but i'll just settle for thunder at the moment.
Unless you have an external SSD or RAID Thunderbolt won't show any speed increase over eSATA or FW800.
 
Eden Aurora May 6, 2012 10:36 AM
Apparently, i'm not alone on this one.
In this months issue of MacWorld Magazine, an article was dedicated to the dying MacPro. Same gripes as me.
 
Waragainstsleep May 6, 2012 11:44 AM
The sad part is how much Apple's pro machines have suffered due to the Intel transition. They couldn't sell enough Xserves because there was nothing to set them apart from offerings from Dell or HP or IBM in terms of architecture and features and they weren't prepared to update them often enough to keep them current like the others do, often for much lower prices.

Now the Mac Pro is being hobbled by the lack of regular CPU updates from Intel and funnily enough no-one wants to shell out thousands for something thats 2 years out of date.

They'd almost have been better off keeping the Pro machines PPC. Almost.
 
BLAZE_MkIV May 6, 2012 12:03 PM
The irony is that of all the platforms the MacPro is the only one were a 6mo or shorter update cycle would be possible.
 
mduell May 6, 2012 02:23 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep (Post 4166786)
Now the Mac Pro is being hobbled by the lack of regular CPU updates from Intel and funnily enough no-one wants to shell out thousands for something thats 2 years out of date.
1) The single socket E3 Xeons have been out for over a year and Apple has neglected to implement them while their competitors did.

2) Intel did have a long cycle between between E5600 and E5, but as always there was a significant price drop for E5600 mid-cycle which Apple chose not to reflect while their competitors did.

3) Dual socket E5 Xeons have been available for months now and their competitors are all shipping them.
 
Waragainstsleep May 6, 2012 04:01 PM
I'm not trying to shift the blame to Intel. Doing either of those things still wouldn't have sufficiently differentiated the Mac Pro or Xserve from competitors. Its probably why Apple didn't bother.

Would the single socket E3s have outperformed the dual CPU workstations? Would they have allowed Thunderbolt? It would be a little odd if they had and Apple had passed it up for so long.
 
mduell May 6, 2012 04:13 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep (Post 4166805)
I'm not trying to shift the blame to Intel. Doing either of those things still wouldn't have sufficiently differentiated the Mac Pro or Xserve from competitors. Its probably why Apple didn't bother.

Would the single socket E3s have outperformed the dual CPU workstations? Would they have allowed Thunderbolt? It would be a little odd if they had and Apple had passed it up for so long.
Software has always been the differentiator between the Mac Pro and competitors, the hardware is bog-standard.

Maybe for some single threaded tasks, but not generally. Thunderbolt works with any chipset that has 4 PCIe lanes available.
 
subego May 6, 2012 04:30 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by mduell (Post 4165136)
What are you looking for that's available in Tbolt but not PCIe?
Plugging in an Apple Thunderbolt Display.
 
P May 7, 2012 05:07 AM
The E3 Xeons use a different chipset from the E5, while I think the old 3x00 Xeons could use the same as the 5x00 Xeons. This may be why Apple decided not to use them - they have used the 3x00 series before.

I am surprised that they have not updated it with E5s yet, though. That does not bode well. With all the delays the E5 suffered, Apple should have been ready to pounce with an update coming out the next day.
 
Eden Aurora May 7, 2012 10:27 PM
My buddies iMac is faster than my MacPro.
Sad but true. I'm embarrassed.
 
Spheric Harlot May 8, 2012 06:41 AM
YOU are the guy who bought the low-end Mac Pro?
 
cgc May 8, 2012 11:04 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot (Post 4167066)
YOU are the guy who bought the low-end Mac Pro?
Prolly left out the fact the MacPro is a few years old...
 
Eden Aurora May 8, 2012 08:18 PM
My MacPro was state of the art a few years ago.
now it's state of the FART
 
SierraDragon May 8, 2012 08:35 PM
Anyone who thinks MPs are lame because the top iMacs and MBPs now have spiffy new CPUs should realize that current 8 and 12 core MPs remain stronger than the best iMac or MBP, and can accept graphics upgrades to add even more power.

http://browse.geekbench.ca/mac-benchmark/

And they have the power supply, cooling, and RAM slots to expand as needed.

Still, I agree they are substantially overdue for performance upgrade. But I see no reason to change the current beautifully engineered case design.

-Allen
 
Spheric Harlot May 9, 2012 03:54 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by Eden Aurora (Post 4167180)
My MacPro was state of the art a few years ago.
now it's state of the FART
"A few years ago"? :lol:

You must be new to this computar thing.

My ****ing TELEPHONE has more horsepower than the expensive state-of-the-art computer I was using "a few years ago".
 
P May 9, 2012 06:17 AM
The current dual socket MP is certainly more powerful on threaded code, but it is behind on single-threaded. That's not the point, though: The MP is supposed to be WAY more powerful than the iMac on just about everything, not barely scraping by on specially designed code or edge cases.
 
Don Pickett May 10, 2012 02:23 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by P (Post 4166919)
I am surprised that they have not updated it with E5s yet, though. That does not bode well. With all the delays the E5 suffered, Apple should have been ready to pounce with an update coming out the next day.
Or, to play devil's advocate, having been burned by two major CPU manufacturers in the past--Motorola and IBM--Apple wanted to wait until they were sure Intel had their shit together before announcing new Mac Pros.

However, I do think the window is closing. If we don't see some kind of announcement at WWDC I think we can assume the Mac Pro is EOL.
 
Don Pickett May 10, 2012 02:26 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by P (Post 4167251)
The current dual socket MP is certainly more powerful on threaded code, but it is behind on single-threaded. That's not the point, though: The MP is supposed to be WAY more powerful than the iMac on just about everything, not barely scraping by on specially designed code or edge cases.
My Mac Pro--3.33 six core--is faster than any iMac, and is considerably faster on X-Plane, the only program I have which can actually max out all twelve actual and virtual cores. The mobile GPUs in the iMacs are still a bug handicap when it comes to pushing pixels.

However, your point is taken, and, as I said above, the window is closing.
 
Veltliner May 11, 2012 04:58 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by Don Pickett (Post 4167404)
Or, to play devil's advocate, having been burned by two major CPU manufacturers in the past--Motorola and IBM--Apple wanted to wait until they were sure Intel had their shit together before announcing new Mac Pros.

However, I do think the window is closing. If we don't see some kind of announcement at WWDC I think we can assume the Mac Pro is EOL.
Right. I'm getting sick of those iPhone rumors, and no news about the Mac Pro.

We need and want a serious computer upgrade.

I don't think the Mac Pro is on the way out. Apple would lose too many high end users. As great as the MBP's are, I wouldn't want such a thing cooking next to my display when editing stills or particularly video.

If Apple would discontinue the Mac Pro, many would leave the Apple platform. It would be called the iPlatform, and that you'd need to own a Windows computer to do serious work. Apple would be downgraded to an entertainment device manufacturer.
 
Waragainstsleep May 12, 2012 11:48 AM
I'm still hoping the lack of movement on a new Mac Pro is a sign of them needing a little more dev time for a new Mac Pro/Xserve hybrid of some kind. Not holding my breath though.
 
Eden Aurora May 13, 2012 10:17 AM
The only way i forgive Apple for making me wait this long for a new MacPro is if they throw in blu-ray burning.
Then, i'll say the wait was justified. otherwise, i will continue to mock them.
 
Person Man May 13, 2012 01:13 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by Eden Aurora (Post 4167878)
The only way i forgive Apple for making me wait this long for a new MacPro is if they throw in blu-ray burning.
Then, i'll say the wait was justified. otherwise, i will continue to mock them.
That won't happen and you know it. A large part of the wait for the new Mac Pro is Intel's fault, as has been discussed elsewhere in this thread.

I agree with the others, though, saying that if Apple doesn't at least say something about the Mac Pro at WWDC this year, the machine can be considered dead for all intents and purposes.
 
Eug May 14, 2012 09:27 AM
I have Blu-ray burning on my iMac... with an external drive.

It'd be even easier on a Mac Pro, since you could install it internally.
 
Salty May 14, 2012 04:32 PM
Blu Ray? Why would anyone want that :P
 
P May 14, 2012 06:28 PM
Intel launched some more E5 Xeons today - the slightly cheaper E5-2400 series. Just in case anyone wants to hold out hope for a silent Tuesday update.
 
Waragainstsleep May 14, 2012 06:42 PM
I reckon new iMacs and the MP will be updated/replaced/EOL'd at WWDC.
 
cgc May 14, 2012 08:04 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep (Post 4168106)
I reckon new iMacs and the MP will be updated/replaced/EOL'd at WWDC.
Well that narrows it down...looks like you covered all possibilities.
 
Spheric Harlot May 14, 2012 09:21 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by cgc (Post 4168119)
Well that narrows it down...looks like you covered all possibilities.
No...He omitted "ignored".
 
Waragainstsleep May 14, 2012 09:47 PM
I meant that I think Apple will leave whatever they are going to do to the MP until WWDC. Though if they EOL it, I doubt they'll announce that there. They'll just do it and hope no-one notices.
 
Big Mac May 15, 2012 06:07 PM
It's terrifically hard to believe that Apple would ever EOL the Mac Pro, but it would be mightily shortsighted if that were to occur.
 
mduell May 16, 2012 02:29 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by Person Man (Post 4167902)
That won't happen and you know it. A large part of the wait for the new Mac Pro is Intel's fault, as has been discussed elsewhere in this thread.
Intel started shipping E5s months ago on a schedule announced at least 3 quarters prior. Apple owns the current delay.

Quote, Originally Posted by P (Post 4168104)
Intel launched some more E5 Xeons today - the slightly cheaper E5-2400 series. Just in case anyone wants to hold out hope for a silent Tuesday update.
Given Apple's choices for the iMac and past Mac Pros, I doubt they'll use the cheaper low end chips.
 
Waragainstsleep May 16, 2012 03:48 PM
I'm still hoping this delay is a good sign. If they planned to EOL it, there would be no point withholding that announcement to run the inventory down. They didn't do that with the Xserve.
 
Eden Aurora May 16, 2012 11:02 PM
what idiot is actually purchasing a MacPro these days. It's like buying an iPhone 4 a month before the 4S is released.
The long wait has made it even harder to purchase one. i bet they move 10 a month. in the world!
 
Spheric Harlot May 17, 2012 04:05 AM
Some idiots have work to do and value that against the money they're able to invest.
 
P May 17, 2012 09:30 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by mduell (Post 4168339)
Given Apple's choices for the iMac and past Mac Pros, I doubt they'll use the cheaper low end chips.
Perhaps not, but the only difference is that the 2400 series is missing the second QPI link. That doesn't seem like a big loss.
 
Veltliner May 19, 2012 10:25 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot (Post 4168449)
Some idiots have work to do and value that against the money they're able to invest.
Yeah, who are they? Who has still work to do these days... ;)
 
cgc May 20, 2012 07:17 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by Veltliner (Post 4168809)
Yeah, who are they? Who has still work to do these days... ;)
No worries, things will be looking better around November 7, 2012 :stick:
 
SierraDragon May 21, 2012 05:34 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by cgc (Post 4168842)
No worries, things will be looking better around November 7, 2012 :stick:
Yes, and it will happen regardless of who wins Nov 6. All the one-percenters who have been intentionally delaying expansion to try to make Obama look bad will release all kinds of pent-up work Q4 2012, Q1 2013. Watch it happen.

Staying on-topic, it will be curious to see how much of the computer part of that expansion goes in Apple's direction. iPads for sure, but maybe Apple will actually have a new MP by then too. :)

-Allen
 
cgc May 21, 2012 07:13 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by SierraDragon (Post 4169039)
Yes, and it will happen regardless of who wins Nov 6. All the one-percenters who have been intentionally delaying expansion to try to make Obama look bad will release all kinds of pent-up work Q4 2012, Q1 2013. Watch it happen.

...
I don't make much money but the America I know and love rewards hard work; thank God for the one-percenters who motivate me to improve my life situation, thank God for the one-percenters who hire us and give us jobs, thank God for the one-percenters who pay far more than they should in taxes than the majority of the population.

Anyways...back on topic :), I would like to see Apple renew their focus on non-mobile devices (e.g. MacPros, iMacs, and Mac Minis) and hire non-iOS developers to work OSX to NOT be iOS on the desktop (cuz it's annoying and nonintuitive unless you have a trackpad). Thunderbolt and Blu-Ray across the lineup along with current GPUs would be nice.
 
Veltliner May 22, 2012 01:28 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by cgc (Post 4169053)
I don't make much money but the America I know and love rewards hard work; thank God for the one-percenters who motivate me to improve my life situation, thank God for the one-percenters who hire us and give us jobs, thank God for the one-percenters who pay far more than they should in taxes than the majority of the population.

Anyways...back on topic :), I would like to see Apple renew their focus on non-mobile devices (e.g. MacPros, iMacs, and Mac Minis) and hire non-iOS developers to work OSX to NOT be iOS on the desktop (cuz it's annoying and nonintuitive unless you have a trackpad). Thunderbolt and Blu-Ray across the lineup along with current GPUs would be nice.
Aren't we all tired of iGadget. We want some nice computers. Continuation of the FCP X software. And wouldn't it be nice if Apple would work out a Photoshop competition? (not going to happen, but it would be interesting).
 
P May 22, 2012 04:51 AM
Stay on topic, guys - we have a forum for political discussion, and I know you all know where it is.
 
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