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-   -   Thinksecret claims new 13.3" Intel iBooks in Jan... (http://forums.macnn.com/69/mac-notebooks/278457/thinksecret-claims-new-13-3-intel/)

 
im_noahselby Dec 12, 2005 04:17 PM
Thinksecret claims that Apple is set to introduce new 13.3" Intel iBooks early next year (Jan?). These new models will replace the current 14" form factor. Apple will supposedly keep the 12" iBook in their new lineup to maintain a budget price-point. At a resolution of 1280x720 WXGA, this will provide 15% more pixels.

Unfortunately, they claim that Apple will also drop the 12" PowerBook, but I doubt many people will be dissapointed with specs like these. The iBook and 12" PowerBook are neck and neck as it is. :P

Maybe Apple will offer both black and white configurations, especially after the huge sucess of the black iPods. Every store I've been to is sold out of all of their black iPods, while the white models remain almost untouched. Clearly this indicates a consumer preference and Apple would be wise to consider this option in their next update.

http://www.thinksecret.com/news/0512briefly.html

Noah
 
TheoCryst Dec 12, 2005 04:43 PM
I'm really looking forward to this option. I've scheduled myself to pick up a new notebook soon, and a 13in widescreen Intel iBook would be exactly what I am looking for.

Personally, I'll end up picking up the white model no matter what. I just think that OS X looks better overall on a white system. Besides, black wouldn't match my 4G 'pod.

My question is, what core would be used? The old single-core Dothans would be fine in my opinion, since the iBook is designed for entry-level. Save the Yonahs for the Powerbook.
 
Flip500 Dec 12, 2005 04:47 PM
It says that the re-build of 10.4.4 will have more support for nvidia... that would be awesome if you were given the option between which GPU you wanted...
 
Commodus Dec 12, 2005 11:18 PM
I don't think Apple will give a choice of GPU, but if there are Intel iBooks (I'm still skeptical enough not to assume anything), I think a 13.3" widescreen model and the discontinuation of the 12" PowerBook would be a good idea. There's been too much overlap in the laptop line lately, and I think many people want something with a larger resolution than 1024x768 without having to pay $2000 for a 15" PowerBook.

Some people will say the 12" PowerBook should stay, but really what needs to be done is to make the 12" iBook thinner and lighter.
 
slugslugslug Dec 13, 2005 12:51 AM
If they make a 13.3" widescreen laptop with monitor spanning and a superdrive option, I don't care what they call it, I want it.

I had speculated that it might make sense to have the iBooks be 12 and 13, the PowerBooks 13, 15, 17. But you probably have a point, too. If they can't come up with enough to differentiate the two, it might be kinda silly to have an iBook and a PB of the same size.
 
andrewgf Dec 13, 2005 06:46 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by slugslugslug
If they make a 13.3" widescreen laptop with monitor spanning and a superdrive option, I don't care what they call it, I want it.
I'll be right in line with you if it does. Granted I'd like to see what the price will be on launch. Standard PC laptop prices are getting pretty low nowadays.

Don't fancy the chances on the monitor spanning as its always been kept as a Powerbook feature.
 
tooki Dec 13, 2005 01:26 PM
iBooks are VERY favorably priced compared to similarly-equipped PC laptops. (Look for things like a real GPU with real VRAM, not just integrated video.)

And of course, all iBooks with G4 chips (and a few before) can be made to do desktop spanning with a simple software patch.

tooki
 
mduell Dec 13, 2005 05:13 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by tooki
iBooks are VERY favorably priced compared to similarly-equipped PC laptops. (Look for things like a real GPU with real VRAM, not just integrated video.)
I doubt there any similar PC laptops in the iBook's price range with dedicated graphics and VRAM instead of integrated graphics and/or shared VRAM (there are some the same price with dedicated graphics, but they have higher res widescreens screens and weigh in at 6 or 7 lb... not a great match). My observation of the market is that they'd rather be $949 with integrated graphics than $999 with dedicated graphics; the performance of a low-end generations-old dedicated graphics chip (like the iBooks use) doesn't make sense to the OEMs and their customers when they can have most of the performance with lower cost/heat/complexity by using an integrated GPU.

To say they're very favorably priced depends on what the consumer wants. You can easily construct a list of features to make them look very good or very bad.

I've said this before, but I think it's worth repeating: Apple has chosen unique performance/features/price/size tradeoffs for the iBooks and PowerBooks. Despite the wide variety of configurations offered by PC OEMs, none have copied the tradeoffs that Apple has chosen. I think Apple could maintain their 3% marketshare if they dumped OSX tomorrow and sold Wintel boxes, just because of the unique points they offer; not that they would, but that they could.
 
iDaver Dec 14, 2005 02:32 AM
I would bet that ThnkSecret is wrong and Apple will not continue with a 12" 4:3 iBook. Consider that the iBook will likely be totally redesigned when it goes Intel. To design a 12" and a 13" seems redundant to me.

A 13" wide screen and maybe eventually a 15" wide screen would make more sense. A 13" model could probably be made the same size as today's 12" model (in cubic inches) knowing Apple's trend toward small and thin. Why keep the 12" around if that's the case?
 
andreas_g4 Dec 14, 2005 03:16 PM
I really really want an Intel iBook, but I guess there won't be a spanning hack anymore, since the architecture will change substantially when they go Intel. At least not for some time. And I can't see the consumer line having the spanning feature built in. It is a good differentiation to the pro machines, and I think not too many consumers need that feature.
 
GreenMnM Dec 14, 2005 05:22 PM
I'll post pictures of it when I'm at Macworld. Stay tuned in! ;)

I'm just about ready to retire my two year old 12" PowerBook. Too bad airfare was so expensive this year, or I might have been able to buy one right at the expo...

-Doug
 
ghporter Dec 14, 2005 05:55 PM
The "bang for the buck" factor is why we switched in the first place. My wife needed a lightweight portable for school, and looking at ALL the numbers, we found that you get the MOST computer for your money with an iBook; more than enough power for just about anything (except maybe heavy duty video editing and such), very light weight, excellent screen, and a budget price. mduell is right, there's nothing comparable in the PC world for anywhere near the price.
 
eStar Dec 16, 2005 08:41 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by GreenMnM
I'll post pictures of it when I'm at Macworld. Stay tuned in! ;)

I'm just about ready to retire my two year old 12" PowerBook. Too bad airfare was so expensive this year, or I might have been able to buy one right at the expo...

-Doug

Go Doug! We crave, now you deliver! :p
 
megasad Dec 17, 2005 02:09 PM
Just had a thought on this; if a new iBook really does have a 13.3" wide screen display, why would it be 1280x720 rather than 1280x854? Expanding the horizontal screen space from 1024 to 1280 is very nice, reducing the vertical from 768 to 720 is not so nice. Is there a reason for it?

Another thing is that, if for some bizarre reason Apple do decide to only have the one FireWire 800 port, no FireWire 400 port, then they might include an adaptor of some kind. It would not be as nice as having both ports but at least you could use both kind of devices.
 
f1000 Dec 17, 2005 02:33 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by megasad
Just had a thought on this; if a new iBook really does have a 13.3" wide screen display, why would it be 1280x720 rather than 1280x854? Expanding the horizontal screen space from 1024 to 1280 is very nice, reducing the vertical from 768 to 720 is not so nice. Is there a reason for it?
Maybe because it's HDTV resolution (i.e., 720p)?
 
Eug Wanker Dec 17, 2005 02:53 PM
Most "high-rez" 13.3" screens seem to be 1280x800 these days. Thus, that's the rez I'd expect a new 13.3" laptop from Apple to get. However, two things:

1) I still think it will be a PowerBook.

2) Perhaps it will be 1280x780. ;)

http://homepage.mac.com/eugwanker/.P...ecker1.0.1.jpg
 
slugslugslug Dec 17, 2005 04:55 PM
Don't all of Apple's widescreen displays, both built-in and Cinemas, have a 16:10 aspect ratio? If true (and I'm fairly certain it is), that'd be another reason to expect 1280 x 800. I suppose they might go with 16:9, the HD widescreen ratio, and do 1280 x 720, but they certainly seem to prefer 16:10. A different vertical res, like 768 or 780, would be just plain weird. But that screenshot Eug posted sure is interesting..
 
Eug Wanker Dec 18, 2005 01:06 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by slugslugslug
Don't all of Apple's widescreen displays, both built-in and Cinemas, have a 16:10 aspect ratio?
Most, but not all. The 15" screen was 1280x854, and it's now 1440x960. Both are 15:10 aspect ratios.
 
im_noahselby Dec 18, 2005 05:43 PM
I guess we'll just have to wait and see what resolution Apple will adopt for their new iBooks. I for one am just happy that they will finally be going widescreen and giving laptop owners who prefer a smaller form factor a better choice than 1024x768.

Jan 11th can't come soon enough!

Noah
 
ajprice Dec 19, 2005 08:49 AM
Now MacRumors are wading in

"Taipei Times reports on research analyst predictions that Apple will be introducing "light-weight [notebooks] with a stylish design aimed at luring female users."

The new models are expected come in at the following specs:

12-inch notebooks at 1.5kg (3.3lbs)
14-inch notebooks below 2kg (4.4lbs)


Not known whether they are talking about iBook or Powerbook, and they do say "The reliability of this information is uncertain."

Which, from a rumour site, I think is as funny as hell!!

So anyway, a laptop aimed at female users...

"What's the difference between Oooh and Aaahh? Two inches.

The new 12" and 14" iBook."
 
jamil5454 Dec 19, 2005 01:37 PM
And they seem to be pretty certain that the iBooks will sport the dual-core Yonah:

http://www.thinksecret.com/news/0512yonah.html
 
slugslugslug Dec 19, 2005 03:10 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by Eug Wanker
Most, but not all. The 15" screen was 1280x854, and it's now 1440x960. Both are 15:10 aspect ratios.
Oops. I should remember that, considering I've got a 1280x854 TiBook.

That whole dual-core iBook idea sounds bonkers. Sounds like something macosrumors.com would say. I wonder how reliable Think Secret's source is on this one.. They have been wrong before.
 
jamil5454 Dec 19, 2005 03:33 PM
Think about it for a second.

With most loyal customers criticizing Apple on the transition, this would be a perfect chance for Apple to justify the switch and say "I told you so." The new dual-core Yonah will surely blow the socks off the current G4 in the iBook.

Besides, the "performance" version of the Yonah will likely be over 33% faster than the version in the iBook (2.16 vs. 1.5). Hint: PowerBooks. This will present a situation where the PowerBooks have a significant edge over the iBooks.

The only problem with ThinkSecret's rumor is that for one or two months the iBook's performance will surpass that of the PowerBook's. Hopefully Apple doesn't severely cripple the new iBook to prevent this.
 
slugslugslug Dec 19, 2005 04:38 PM
I'm not saying a dual-core iBook is totally out of the question. Just makes it seem like the PowerBook is gonna need some kind of mind-blowing additional feature to really differentiate it in customers' eyes.

I mean, you and I realize that DVI, better GPUs, PC Card slot, and faster Ethernet/HD/FW add up. But a lot of potential customers would look at the two lines and say, "I can get the double-Pentium thing in the iBook? I'm not paying more for a fancier case."

So if the iBooks show up first with a dual-core, I can't wait to see what the PB team has up their sleeve.
 
tooki Dec 19, 2005 04:52 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by ajprice
You wade in a shallow pool, pond, lake, marsh, or surf. You weigh in on a topic. ;)

tooki
 
harrisjamieh Dec 21, 2005 12:45 PM
Something else that could be making this ibook more likely: the UK apple refurb store is now showing the newest generation of ibooks (1.33 for 12", 1.42 for 14"), and have only been doing so in the past couple of weeks. Also the amount the refurbs have been reduced by has increased from 20% to 26%. Maybe they are clearing the stock...?
 
Simon Dec 21, 2005 05:29 PM
AI is chiming in. Single (1.67GHz) and dual core (1.67-2.16 GHz) Yonah to be here in January.

13.3" widescreen iBooks could get the 1.67GHz single, the 15" PowerBook could get the dual core at higher speeds. It looks like the 12" PB is definitely history.

MWSF is going to be a nice show. :thumbsup:
 
f1000 Dec 21, 2005 05:51 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by Simon
It looks like the 12" PB is definitely history.
How did you come to this conclusion from the AI article?

I truly hope that Apple keeps something for us fans of an ultralight pro-model.
 
Simon Dec 21, 2005 05:56 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by f1000
How did you come to this conclusion from the AI article?

I truly hope that Apple keeps something for us fans of an ultralight pro-model.
It's not from that article, but it's been all over the web already:
http://www.thinksecret.com/news/0512briefly.html
http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=1359
http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=1229

I won't like to see them drop the 12" PB either, but it's clear that it will have to go since it's too close to the iBooks. However, if they offer a 13.3" widescreen iBook, with a Radeon PCIe card, DVI out and a 1.67 GHz single core Yonah, that should clearly spank the best 12" PowerBook Apple ever made. If something like that appears, I think users looking for decent power in a small case, shouldn't be too disappointed.
 
f1000 Dec 21, 2005 06:06 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by Simon
I think users looking for decent power in a small case, shouldn;t be too disappointed.
I don't consider carrying an iBook to look professional, though, and that's based on experience. If Apple doesn't produce an ultralight PowerBook, then I guess I'll have to move up to the next smallest one. If the new 15" is slimmer and lighter as predicted, then that'll certainly ease my disappointment.
 
Simon Dec 21, 2005 06:14 PM
I guess it all boils down to how important pure size is.

I needed the better GPU and VRAM more than the small size, so I bought a 15" after having used a 12". I still love the 12" form factor, but I want it to offer the power only the 15" offers today.
 
im_noahselby Dec 21, 2005 06:21 PM
A few things:

- I really hope that Apple puts 64MB of graphics memory into this new Intel iBook revision. I can't think of a greater dissapointment than seeing brand new Intel iBooks crippled with 32MB graphics cards. Apple has the opportunity to really make a statement with these new machines, here's hoping they don't blow it. I'd personally love to see 128MB of video ram, but I know that is wishful thinking...

- To DVI or not to DVI. This is one of the reasons I originally bought my 12" PB over an iBook. I thought I "needed" it. The truth is, I've never touched the adapter and no stores (Best Buy, Future Shop) seem to really carry LCD monitors that are DVI compatible. Both of these major electronic store chains seem to carry mainly VGA monitors and everyone I spoke to about this matter, says you can't visibly see a difference between the two standards. So if all the new iBooks offer is VGA, that will be fine with me. I do hope that the new machines support monitor spanning though, especially if the 12" PB is EOL. That is a feature I know I will eventually use.

- Here is my take on Apple dropping the 12" PB:

What if the current 12" PB is going to be axed for this upcoming iBook revision and than picked up again in some form or the other (10", 14") once Apple updates it's entire PowerBook lineup to Intel chips. Clearly the current 12" PB wouldn't stand a chance of selling in a market with cheaper Intel iBooks. So if you look at it like this, wouldn't you think axeing it for the time being makes sense. Apple has its master plan and I wouldn't consider the EOL of the 12" PB to be a bad thing, in fact, it's probbably an awesome thing; it means we are going to be getting kickass iBooks in January!

Noah
 
Simon Dec 21, 2005 06:27 PM
Ever since Apple included DVI on the mini (which after all is the cheapest of all Macs) I can't understand how they couldn't put it on the iBook as well. When the 12" PB is gone and the 13.3" iBook takes over, I'd be very disappointed to see them continue this VGA and no spanning crap.
 
harrisjamieh Dec 21, 2005 06:38 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by im_noahselby
After a visit to Best Buy and Future Shop in my area, I've pretty much concluded that not many LCD makers support DVI and instead simply use the VGA standard.

Noah

Really? :stick: most screens have at least both DVI and VGA, if not only DVI
 
im_noahselby Dec 21, 2005 07:17 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by harrisjamieh
Really? :stick: most screens have at least both DVI and VGA, if not only DVI
Keep in mind, my preference was on 17" LCD's at the time, nothing larger...

Noah
 
tooki Dec 21, 2005 09:16 PM
It has little to do with screen size, and all to do with the fact that Best Buy (which owns Future Shop, by the way) generally only carries the lowest model each model carries in that size. If you look anywhere else, such as a real computer store, or online, you'd find that most LCDs now have DVI.

tooki
 
tooki Dec 21, 2005 09:17 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by f1000
I don't consider carrying an iBook to look professional, though, and that's based on experience. If Apple doesn't produce an ultralight PowerBook, then I guess I'll have to move up to the next smallest one. If the new 15" is slimmer and lighter as predicted, then that'll certainly ease my disappointment.
If an iBook is professional enough for Martha Stewart, isn't it professional enough for anyone?

tooki
 
f1000 Dec 21, 2005 09:39 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by tooki
If an iBook is professional enough for Martha Stewart, isn't it professional enough for anyone?
If wearing a pink skirt is professional enough for Marth Stewart, then does that mean we guys should start wearing them too?
 
Simon Dec 22, 2005 01:30 AM
Ah comon, this can just be about looks. If an iBook gets a DVI and decent CPU/GPU upgrade it will be just as good as any existing 12" PB. If you have a problem with its looks and therefor switch to the 15", I'd just say you don't really rely that much on the small size... ;)
 
mduell Dec 22, 2005 01:37 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by im_noahselby
- I really hope that Apple puts 64MB of graphics memory into this new Intel iBook revision. I can't think of a greater dissapointment than seeing brand new Intel iBooks crippled with 32MB graphics cards. Apple has the opportunity to really make a statement with these new machines, here's hoping they don't blow it. I'd personally love to see 128MB of video ram, but I know that is wishful thinking...
I can't think of any $750+ PC laptops with 32MB graphics; they either have integrated graphics supporting at least 64MB RAM or discrete graphics with at least 64MB VRAM.

Quote, Originally Posted by Simon
Ever since Apple included DVI on the mini (which after all is the cheapest of all Macs) I can't understand how they couldn't put it on the iBook as well. When the 12" PB is gone and the 13.3" iBook takes over, I'd be very disappointed to see them continue this VGA and no spanning crap.
It has been possible for years; neither the switch to Intel nor the Mac mini's port indicate any breakthrough in features. Apple needs the port and second monitor usage to help draw the line between the iBook and the PowerBook (what else is left? a couple hundred Mhz and a metal case).
 
Simon Dec 22, 2005 03:25 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by mduell
It has been possible for years; neither the switch to Intel nor the Mac mini's port indicate any breakthrough in features. Apple needs the port and second monitor usage to help draw the line between the iBook and the PowerBook (what else is left? a couple hundred Mhz and a metal case).
Absolutely. That's exactly my point. No DVI/spanning on the iBook was all about marketing the 12" PB and had nothing to do with technical feasibility. Once the 12" PB is gone, there will be no gap left that has to be broadened. Thus I hope Apple will finally get its act together and put DVI on the $999 iBook just like they did with the $499 mini.
 
chrisutley Dec 24, 2005 02:02 AM
Just a hunch but I really doubt Apple will EVER ship anything that has a "Pentium" in it. I don't think they would want that name associated with Apple/Mac. Even if they just call the chip something different... I just don't think you'll ever hear an Apple Store employee telling some newbie that the new PowerMac (G6?) has a "Pentium" inside.


Quote, Originally Posted by slugslugslug
I'm not saying a dual-core iBook is totally out of the question. Just makes it seem like the PowerBook is gonna need some kind of mind-blowing additional feature to really differentiate it in customers' eyes.

I mean, you and I realize that DVI, better GPUs, PC Card slot, and faster Ethernet/HD/FW add up. But a lot of potential customers would look at the two lines and say, "I can get the double-Pentium thing in the iBook? I'm not paying more for a fancier case."

So if the iBooks show up first with a dual-core, I can't wait to see what the PB team has up their sleeve.
 
ghporter Dec 24, 2005 01:54 PM
I agree with chrisutley; I doubt that the processors for Apple will be branded the same way as the rest of Intel's line. But just what they will call them is something I'm curious about.
 
mduell Dec 24, 2005 04:43 PM
I think they will call them Intel chips, or Intel Centrino Duo, or Centrino, or really anything but Pentium in the laptops. In the desktops I'm not sure; I have yet to see anything from Intel on the name of the desktop/workstation P8 chips.
 
im_noahselby Dec 26, 2005 04:32 AM
It's so tempting to buy a new laptop right now with $50 to $100 off across Apple's entire lineup. Boxing day sales are huge up here, for those who are unfamiliar with it. I feel like I'm taking a bit of a gamble in waiting, but hopefully the short wait will pay off and Apple will release something spectacular on Jan 10th.

Noah
 
im_noahselby Dec 26, 2005 04:36 AM
Oh and something else:

A user named "steeldrivingjon" from the macrumors board posted the following message:

NEC's announced dual-core Yonah notebook is supposed to cost $2,000, and the feature set is not all that great.

That suggests to me that a dual-core Yonah would put an iBook squarely into Powerbook price range.

Which makes no sense. There's no point selling an iBook line that *starts* at the price of the midrange G4 Powerbook.

The only reason to assume the iBook is getting a Yonah first is that the Powerbooks were recently updated. But given how slight those upgrades were (pretty much just the screens), this is a pretty weak reason to bet on the iBook, especially given the price issue demonstrated by the NEC product.

My guess - PowerBooks get dual-core Yonahs. iBooks either a) get nothing for now, or b) get slightly faster PPC CPUs, or c) get form factor change with their current PPC CPUs.

Later this year, the iBooks will get single-core Yonahs and a price cut.

As for the mini, again given the price of that NEC Yonah laptop, I wonder if it might ship with a G5 instead of an Intel chip.


Is there any truth in this information? After reading this message, my expectations for January 10th dropped significantly.

Noah
 
mduell Dec 26, 2005 06:59 AM
im_noahselby: Pentium Ms are generally pricey CPUs, but NEC may be targeting a higher clocked chip; I haven't seen pricing but the slowest Yonah chips (~1.6Ghz) may be relatively cheap compared to the rest of the line.
 
andreas_g4 Dec 26, 2005 10:26 AM
Interesting thoughts in this thread. :thumbsup:

But I have to admit that I am really Apple's bitch. I will buy whatever they come out with on the 10th…
 
jtwiskowski Dec 28, 2005 07:48 PM
Good one!
Nice catch... I'd bet money you're right.

Quote, Originally Posted by Eug Wanker
Most "high-rez" 13.3" screens seem to be 1280x800 these days. Thus, that's the rez I'd expect a new 13.3" laptop from Apple to get. However, two things:

1) I still think it will be a PowerBook.

2) Perhaps it will be 1280x780. ;)

http://homepage.mac.com/eugwanker/.P...ecker1.0.1.jpg
 
goMac Dec 28, 2005 07:53 PM
The Dual Core Yonahs are more expensive. iBooks will ship with single core Yonahs.
 
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