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- - e r i k - - Aug 8, 2006 06:40 AM
Top Secret – What are we missing out on?
Everyone's hope is on the Finder. But, what about general UI. How much can they change before they break compatibility? What is possible with CoreAnimation? Is QX2D still coming? Resolution independence?

And what about Apple Teams? Collaboration software?
 
rickey939 Aug 8, 2006 07:58 AM
I'm thinking a new version of TextEdit! Whoa, the secret is out.....
 
mitchell_pgh Aug 8, 2006 08:22 AM
I think it will be 2-3 good things... on par with the Mail update.
 
tae667 Aug 8, 2006 09:30 AM
New UI.
 
moonmonkey Aug 8, 2006 09:32 AM
just..want..finder...:cry:

New UI would be lovely too.
 
workerbee Aug 8, 2006 09:46 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by rickey939
I'm thinking a new version of TextEdit! Whoa, the secret is out.....
Darn! My own super-secret sources said it was a new version of Stickies, though.
 
Landos Mustache Aug 8, 2006 10:26 AM
If Apple wanted to replace every brushed metal and platinum element with black AND the stoplight buttons to another colour can they just do this on their end or does apps need minor or major tweaking?

Remember when OS8 shipped and some apps still had the system 7 look?
 
OwlBoy Aug 8, 2006 10:43 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by Landos Mustache
If Apple wanted to replace every brushed metal and platinum element with black AND the stoplight buttons to another colour can they just do this on their end or does apps need minor or major tweaking?

Remember when OS8 shipped and some apps still had the system 7 look?
Any apps that did not use all default UI widgets and elements still looked like System 7. This is because they used custom methods to simulate and appear just like the default UI. So any apps that "hack" or "fake" the aqua UI would not automatically change. A good example is Windows Media Player for OS X, it uses a fake Aqua look.

-Owl
 
Landos Mustache Aug 8, 2006 11:06 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by OwlBoy
Any apps that did not use all default UI widgets and elements still looked like System 7. This is because they used custom methods to simulate and appear just like the default UI. So any apps that "hack" or "fake" the aqua UI would not automatically change. A good example is Windows Media Player for OS X, it uses a fake Aqua look.

-Owl
Any way to tell which uses which?
 
eevyl Aug 8, 2006 12:39 PM
The problem right now with Mac OS X and the UI is that the apps "hack" and "fake" the aqua UI because the Aqua UI is diluted and there is so much crap going on with the GUI.

I would be happy with ONE well implemented GUI, not a bunch of half-developed OMGBBQCOOLZ fashion looks.
 
monkeybrain Aug 8, 2006 12:40 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by workerbee
Darn! My own super-secret sources said it was a new version of Stickies, though.
Hey, I'd really like a new version of Stickies! One with the check-list features of the new Mail would be sweet.

And what is it with the new Mail? Why are they sticking to those weird buttons? And why integrate to-do lists and notes, but not iCal?
 
eevyl Aug 8, 2006 12:45 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by monkeybrain
And what is it with the new Mail? Why are they sticking to those weird buttons? And why integrate to-do lists and notes, but not iCal?
Because Mail deals with text documents, Notes and To-dos are basically rich text documents, while the full iCal application is much more, and adding all that functionality would transform Mail into a big behemoth.

I like them apart.
 
mitchell_pgh Aug 8, 2006 12:59 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by eevyl
The problem right now with Mac OS X and the UI is that the apps "hack" and "fake" the aqua UI because the Aqua UI is diluted and there is so much crap going on with the GUI.

I would be happy with ONE well implemented GUI, not a bunch of half-developed OMGBBQCOOLZ fashion looks.
The thing is, Apple should be leading the way... and they aren't doing as good of a job as they could regarding application GUI implementations. I like a little variety, but we have too many to choose from.
 
lookmark Aug 8, 2006 01:04 PM
Here's my guesses.

- A whole new "Aqua". A complete UI overhaul that with liberal (though careful) use of CoreImage/CoreAnimation effects. Think light, gloss, and real-time reflection. Instead pulsing, for example, default buttons might quietly ripple like a stream of confetti in the wind.

- The Dock gains dimensionality (see Time Machine UI for a taste) and new control features.

- Front Row 2. See CoverFlow.

- A new, metadata-crazy Finder that introduces easy keywording with Tags, drag-and-drop boolean operators for searching with Spotlight, and greatly enhanced previews.

- The new Spotlight UI takes a cue from Quicksilver and becomes a great app launcher.

Some maybes:

- 3d mapping software integrated into the OS.
- Telephony application that integrates with Mail and Address Book.
 
Judge_Fire Aug 8, 2006 04:10 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by mitchell_pgh
The thing is, Apple should be leading the way... and they aren't doing as good of a job as they could regarding application GUI implementations. I like a little variety, but we have too many to choose from.
Interestingly, in the Longhorn days, Microsoft was touting Application Archetypes as their new take on this. There'd be a set of 8 or so 'look+feel' templates for different types of apps. Or something to that extent.

And now I can't find anything on MSDN, the page has been removed. The User Experience Guidelines don't seem to have it. One more thing cut from Vista? Maybe.

Here's some blog entry on it.
 
greenamp Aug 8, 2006 04:32 PM
Multi layered dock, with the different layers becoming visable via a three dimentional, cube like vertical flipping effect.
 
Simon Aug 8, 2006 04:41 PM
If everybody's so damn sure we'll get a new UI, can we have some mockups? ;)
 
P Aug 8, 2006 04:57 PM
Apple has been very good with designing the UI to match the outlookof their current machines. The most recent major redesign of the exterior of one machine was the iMac, so... I'd say it's white. Or, considering the iPods, black.
 
Landos Mustache Aug 8, 2006 05:09 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by P
Apple has been very good with designing the UI to match the outlookof their current machines. The most recent major redesign of the exterior of one machine was the iMac, so... I'd say it's white. Or, considering the iPods, black.
Or the pro hardware. Metal. But not that brushed **** cuz that came out before the hardware.
 
TETENAL Aug 8, 2006 05:36 PM
The scrollbars of Mail's stationary browser might be a hint of where the interface is going.
 
Moose Aug 8, 2006 05:45 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by TETENAL
The scrollbars of Mail's stationary browser might be a hint of where the interface is going.
My internet's pretty brokedick right now so I haven't seen the keynote, but from the Demo movie the scrollbars look exactly the same.
 
Chuckit Aug 8, 2006 05:56 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by Landos Mustache
If Apple wanted to replace every brushed metal and platinum element with black AND the stoplight buttons to another colour can they just do this on their end or does apps need minor or major tweaking?
They could do it on their end and it would work for probably 95% of apps. Any apps that can be themed in such a way by Shapeshifter, Apple could do on their end.
 
Chuckit Aug 8, 2006 06:03 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by Moose
My internet's pretty brokedick right now so I haven't seen the keynote, but from the Demo movie the scrollbars look exactly the same.
A screenshot of the scroller in question was posted in another thread.
 
Moose Aug 8, 2006 06:28 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by Chuckit
A screenshot of the scroller in question was posted in another thread.
Check.
 
Dark Helmet Aug 8, 2006 06:47 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by Chuckit
They could do it on their end and it would work for probably 95% of apps. Any apps that can be themed in such a way by Shapeshifter, Apple could do on their end.

Ok how about size and placement? If they wanted to move all the buttons to the right and make the title bars 2x taller could they?
 
TETENAL Aug 8, 2006 06:50 PM
Apple can't significantly change the size of controls, nor can they change their placement in existing applications.
 
Kerrigan Aug 8, 2006 06:52 PM
Like always, I bitched about 10.5 but now I'm excited.

Anyways, I'm glad that Apple is keeping those features secret, because MS really will copy everything and put into Vista.
 
Chuckit Aug 8, 2006 08:13 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by Dark Helmet
Ok how about size and placement? If they wanted to move all the buttons to the right and make the title bars 2x taller could they?
With window widgets, they could probably do it with about the same success rate. As far as controls inside the window go, though, there's not a lot of flexability there — developers place those where they are, so changing the size would break apps' layouts.
 
Mac4evan Aug 8, 2006 09:33 PM
Completely Agree
Quote, Originally Posted by lookmark
Here's my guesses.

- A whole new "Aqua". A complete UI overhaul that with liberal (though careful) use of CoreImage/CoreAnimation effects. Think light, gloss, and real-time reflection. Instead pulsing, for example, default buttons might quietly ripple like a stream of confetti in the wind.

- The Dock gains dimensionality (see Time Machine UI for a taste) and new control features.

- Front Row 2. See CoverFlow.

- A new, metadata-crazy Finder that introduces easy keywording with Tags, drag-and-drop boolean operators for searching with Spotlight, and greatly enhanced previews.

- The new Spotlight UI takes a cue from Quicksilver and becomes a great app launcher.

Some maybes:

- 3d mapping software integrated into the OS.
- Telephony application that integrates with Mail and Address Book.

I agree with the above thoughts

However I believe there may be even more or maybe just one or two other SUPER innovative features that will be something people have either been only apart of their wildest imaginations or that are not even comprehensible because you could have never thought of them (like how Time Machine was for me). Steve Jobs may I remind you, is all about the WOW! factor and so for him to go on stage and have to (without directly saying) 'withhold' features, means to me that they are so good that they dont want M$ getting their hands on it for ideas yet and/or they are more complex and need more time to develop.

For everyone who is saying how underwhelming Leopard seems well, i just say, give Apple time until the final release. Then you can judge Leopard because that will be what Apple has intended it to be all along.
 
JB72 Aug 8, 2006 09:51 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by lookmark
- Front Row 2. See CoverFlow.
That looks pretty cool. Would have been a lot easier with with CoreAnimation. :)

I think whatever it is that Apple is hiding, it was probably built with CoreAnimation. It's that type of stylistic stuff that M$ would be most likely to copy. It's what they envy the most.

Quote, Originally Posted by lookmark
Some maybes:

- 3d mapping software integrated into the OS.
- Telephony application that integrates with Mail and Address Book.
Both very interesting.
 
Hi I'm Ben Aug 9, 2006 09:25 AM
I think we'll see some sort of VMWare built straight into the OS. I only say this because of the addition of spaces. Sure spaces is cool and implimented pretty good but i think part of its use is to have Windows run in one of those spaces if you so choose.
 
Landos Mustache Aug 9, 2006 10:07 AM
I also think you will be able to run windows in a SPACE or separate login but I don't think they will allow both Mac and Windows on the screen at the same time.
 
MacManMikeOSX Aug 9, 2006 10:25 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by lookmark
...
- A new, metadata-crazy Finder that introduces easy keywording with Tags, drag-and-drop boolean operators for searching with Spotlight, and greatly enhanced previews.
...
Metadata is dead as a doornail, if they use anything and overhaul spotlight it'll use interprative clustering. Sort of like askjeeves but really like clusty.com, although maybe they'll be blind to these facts and use metadata but I would be disapointed.
 
Chuckit Aug 9, 2006 10:39 AM
In the scant two years since Tiger came out, metadata had gone from the direction of Apple's innovation to dead as a doornail? I'm not quite sure where you got that from.
 
kingyubba Aug 9, 2006 10:56 AM
maybe some of the top secret features will incorporate whatever Apple's filed patents for...

i distinctly remember them getting a patent for windows that fade (and then close?) after a period of inactivity.... the longer the duration, the more transparent.
 
riverfreak Aug 9, 2006 11:05 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by tae667
New UI.
New UI? What does this mean? This is quite possibly the most generic statement one could make.

Um, no. There will not be a funamental overhaul of the UI. Ain't happening. No better way to alienate users than to spring a completely new UI on them -- unannounced at that -- even if you know what is good for them.
 
ATPTourFan Aug 9, 2006 12:50 PM
I agree, I don't expect a new UI, but I wouldn't be surprised in a little tweaking like they've done from release to release: Increasing opacity in menus and getting rid of pin stripes, et al.
 
voodoo Aug 9, 2006 02:11 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by riverfreak
New UI? What does this mean? This is quite possibly the most generic statement one could make.

Um, no. There will not be a funamental overhaul of the UI. Ain't happening. No better way to alienate users than to spring a completely new UI on them -- unannounced at that -- even if you know what is good for them.
I think the pinstripes will be history. I think the Finder will be new, but I have my reservations about how great it is going to be. I think it will still be Macintosh.. as much as OS X Finder is Macintosh.

For six years the Finder has sucked and Apple hasn't seemed to care one squat. I don't see why they should now? Steve is the man of mercury so hey. Stranger things have happened.

V
 
Timetheus Aug 9, 2006 03:08 PM
I've never really understood what so many of you have against the finder, anyone care to explain it to me?

I rather like it, but I'm only comparing agianst XP.
 
hmurchison2001 Aug 9, 2006 04:15 PM
Basically it's a bandwagon thing. Someone comes up with a cute phrase full of alliteration like "fix the f**ckin finder" and everyone jumps onboard.

The finder isn't perfect but I don't feel like it's a huge roadblock to my attempts at finding anything. I've seen these polarizing things come and go.
 
P Aug 9, 2006 04:31 PM
It's just so much worse than the old OS 9 Finder. The browser model and the spatial mode is all mixed up, which damages both modes. It's buggy as hell, in particular wrt window sizes and network drives. It's slow as molasses compared to the OS 9 Finder, and it in turn was considered really slow compared to the 7.6 Finder - which did almost everything the 10.4 Finder does! It uses much more screen real estate so you can't see as many files.

There has been extensive discussions about this.
 
dpfenninger Aug 9, 2006 04:32 PM
Yeah I've never understood the whole anti-Finder sentiment. What's so damn wrong with it? It serves its purpose, and does so smoothly and efficiently, IMO.

I'm sure there are some things to be improved with it, but it's not the horrific app that people make it out to be. Could be worse...could be the Windows Explorer! :)
 
CharlesS Aug 9, 2006 04:49 PM
It beachballs sometimes when accessing network shares. It also likes to put Desktop icons underneath the Dock if it's pinned on the right.

Neither of these things would require a rewrite to solve.
 
Chuckit Aug 9, 2006 04:57 PM
It also fails to update network shares sometimes. You have to create a new folder to get it to update the file listing. Also doesn't require a rewrite to fix.
 
cla Aug 9, 2006 05:41 PM
Funny by the way to watch Apple struggle against the closer, minimizer, hider problem. First they introduce minimizing windows, then they introduced hiding windows (apps), then they give us Exposé, which apparently wasn't enough, since they just blessed us with Spaces.

Basically, with Leopard and Spaces, we'll have a zillion ways of dealing with our zillion windows. Increasingly complex, as a feature once introduced is a feature hard to remove. Even if it does in fact add to bad behaviour (Note to self: don't mention sidebar and dock)

So which way works the best for you? We'll probably never know, since we're all convinced our way of doing things is the greatest.
 
poulh Aug 9, 2006 06:11 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by greenamp
Multi layered dock, with the different layers becoming visable via a three dimentional, cube like vertical flipping effect.
With spotlight working as an 'app launcher' in leopard (i use it that way now, but its a bit slow). I don't think the dock is going to get too much lovin.

If spotlight works as well as they say I have no use for the dock anymore.

Also, with expose and the new virtual desktops, I have no use for the yellow button to minimize apps. you can have clutter and hit F9 to see everything, or move the clutter into lots of windows. I love it!
 
poulh Aug 9, 2006 06:13 PM
with spotlight just dump everything in the documents folder and fahgetaboutit
 
Chuckit Aug 9, 2006 06:39 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by cla
Funny by the way to watch Apple struggle against the closer, minimizer, hider problem. First they introduce minimizing windows, then they introduced hiding windows (apps), then they give us Exposé, which apparently wasn't enough, since they just blessed us with Spaces.
Speaking of windows and apps as interchangeable is so Windows.
 
CharlesS Aug 9, 2006 08:30 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by cla
Funny by the way to watch Apple struggle against the closer, minimizer, hider problem. First they introduce minimizing windows, then they introduced hiding windows (apps), then they give us Exposé, which apparently wasn't enough, since they just blessed us with Spaces.
They introduced hiding apps long before minimizing windows.
 
Moose Aug 9, 2006 10:47 PM
Hmm:

Quote
Title: Core Video engineer
Req. ID: 2699229
Location: Santa Clara Valley, California
Country: United States
Req Date: 03-Aug-2006
3-5 years experience in processing of video with strong product focus. Indepth knowledge of video algorithms including filtering, color space conversion, codecs.
Experience of GPU based video processing a plus

BSEE, MSEE preferred
 
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