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-   -   Are you a Jeep Owner? talk me into or out of buying a Wrangler. (http://forums.macnn.com/89/macnn-lounge/262152/you-jeep-owner-talk-me-into/)

 
SOLIDAge Jul 5, 2005 05:56 PM
Are you a Jeep Owner? talk me into or out of buying a Wrangler.
my current 1995 Chevy Tahoe has 190k miles on it, and it's time to get a new car.
i'm looking into a 1997 or a 1999 Wrangler, automatic, around 80K miles.

tell me the ins and out of the Wrangler...either convince me or convince me NOT to buy.
 
rozwado1 Jul 5, 2005 09:25 PM
Besides the inital price, you'll have to spend $100 or so to get "IF YOU CAN READ THIS, FLIP ME OVER" painted upside-down on your front windshield. There's a thought.
 
MacMan4000 Jul 5, 2005 09:39 PM
I love my Jeep... but its not a wrangler.

http://kmurphy.ambitiouslemon.com/im...ycar-thumb.jpg
Click for massive version
 
suvsr4terrorists Jul 5, 2005 09:49 PM
Small engines + automatic= horsepoo acceleration. Get a manual.

That said, wranglers suck ass in cold weather, they're pretty much a warm weather only vehicle. Considering your current location, I'd say if you got one you'd sell it within a couple years. They ride like total ass, they're really really really loud at freeway speeds, they have crap ergonomics and they suck gas like a pig.

But they're competent offroad machines. And chicks dig them.

How often do you go offroad?
 
Mastrap Jul 5, 2005 10:50 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by suvsr4terrorists
How often do you go offroad?

Which is the question all SUV drivers should be asked.
 
budster101 Jul 5, 2005 10:56 PM
Why? How often do those punks in their rice burning 4-banger hondas go to the circle track and race?
Wait, their too busy buzzing about the highways driving like idiots, causing accidents by cutting off people in other vehicles.

The SUV Nazis make me sick.
 
ort888 Jul 5, 2005 11:00 PM
Loud, drafty and drive like poop. Good for offroading though.
 
Mastrap Jul 5, 2005 11:02 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by budster101
The SUV Nazis make me sick.

Watch your language.
 
budster101 Jul 5, 2005 11:03 PM
What are you talking about? Have you driven an SUV lately? Or are you only referring to the model year and make he is asking about?

The only poop here is the anti-SUV Nazi contingency that can't stay away from a thread about them...

My friend had one of those Jeeps and it was nice, fast, a bit noisy (Road Noise) but then again, it wasn't a 4 banger with a coffee can exhaust. Rock Solid in the snow and it got nice and toasty warm very quickly.

He had no complaints.
 
brapper Jul 5, 2005 11:18 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by budster101
Why? How often do those punks in their rice burning 4-banger hondas go to the circle track and race?
Wait, their too busy buzzing about the highways driving like idiots, causing accidents by cutting off people in other vehicles.

The SUV Nazis make me sick.
I've noticed you're easily worked up.
Not every post needs shock value.
 
suvsr4terrorists Jul 5, 2005 11:19 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by budster101
Why? How often do those punks in their rice burning 4-banger hondas go to the circle track and race?
Wait, their too busy buzzing about the highways driving like idiots, causing accidents by cutting off people in other vehicles.

The SUV Nazis make me sick.
Not sure how often they do, but they're getting over 30mpg, not causing blindspots, and aren't really endangering anybody while driving safely. SUVs, even while driven safely, are getting awful mpg, impossible to see around, and endangering everyone on the road including themselves.
 
suvsr4terrorists Jul 5, 2005 11:21 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by budster101
What are you talking about? Have you driven an SUV lately? Or are you only referring to the model year and make he is asking about?

The only poop here is the anti-SUV Nazi contingency that can't stay away from a thread about them...

My friend had one of those Jeeps and it was nice, fast, a bit noisy (Road Noise) but then again, it wasn't a 4 banger with a coffee can exhaust. Rock Solid in the snow and it got nice and toasty warm very quickly.

He had no complaints.
Have you even BEEN ina wrangler? It has a SOFT TOP. Ever gotten into a soft top after it snows? Even with the heat on it's still awful. Noisy, cold, drafty, ... just AWFUL. It's basically a vehicle made for two conditions, simultaneously: Going offroad while it's warm out. And in those two conditions, nothing can beat it.

For scooting around town, going on the highway, cold weather, or a comfortable ride, almost EVERYTHING beats a wrangler.

Also, another thing that sucks is that my friend who had one had the fabric sliced a few times and had his CDs stolen.
 
SOLIDAge Jul 5, 2005 11:24 PM
well i'm hoping to get one with a hard top
and please, all you asses in here for an SUV vs Car debate, go elsewhere, don't derail my thread.
 
budster101 Jul 5, 2005 11:24 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by brapper
I've noticed you're easily worked up.
Not every post needs shock value.

Uhm, I'm not worked up, more annoyed at the idiotic posts of some pushy people who would like to dictate who own's what vehicle. They seem to think they know what is best for people.

When Ca$h states something "sucks ass" I guess that's not shock value by your definition?
 
suvsr4terrorists Jul 5, 2005 11:28 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by budster101
When Ca$h states something "sucks ass" I guess that's not shock value by your definition?
Hi Mr. Dramatic. Please reread my post. I stated specifically it's a great vehicle for offroading, pretty much the best there is in many situations, and it's pretty much only good in warm weather. I stated two attributes about it that are true, and good. In warm weather, it's great for offroading.

That said, it DOES suck in the winter, gets awful MPG, is way too loud on the highway (especially with offroad tires), the top is noisy and drafty, and it sucks in the winter.

I think you should seek therapy. I wasn't attacking SUV drivers. I happen to LIKE wranglers because they aren't 6000lb monstrosities and they are actually VERY CAPABLE offroad machines. They just aren't a very good choice for daily transportation on the road, like almost ANY suv. Get this through your overly thick skull, because it's the truth.
 
jasonsRX7 Jul 5, 2005 11:30 PM
Friend of mine bought a Wrangler Sahara new back in '99. It had to have the rear end replaced in '03. It's fun off road (which he did quite a bit) but on road it rides like crap. Really bouncy and loud. Wouldn't be bad as a secondary/summer vehicle as long as you had a more comfortable ride for longer trips and daily driving.

If you test drive one, don't just take it around the block for 5 minutes. Get out on the highway for about 30 minutes and make sure you can stand the suspension.
 
MacMan4000 Jul 5, 2005 11:33 PM
The hard-top Rubicon version Wranglers kick ass... even in winter.
 
Randman Jul 5, 2005 11:35 PM
I used to own a Jeep Wrangler but that was a few years ago. Ok, more than 10 years ago so I can't vouch for the quality.

I did own a soft top and I did live in Minnesota for part of the time with it. I had no problems in Duluth even in the winter. The Jeep handled cold weather just fine and the heater was the best I ever had. It was also nice not to have to scrape down all of the windows.

I didn't have A/C but I didn't really need it. Get a manual if you do.

The ride can be bumpy. I drove cross country a few times and the wind noise can be a problem at times.

But ... when the sun is out (I also had it when I lived in Myrtle Beach) and the top is down, it's one of the best rides out there. Chicks love it and there's nothing like a ragtop though there are negatives to it to consider as there are with all convertibles.
 
kappa4life Jul 6, 2005 12:04 AM
Uhm, you can get them with hardtops. In fact I have an 03 Rubicon with dual tops. Sure, it sucks gas, drives alright, its nota sports car. I own a manual, I love it. Mine rides better than stock, handles better than stock and it IS noisy. I love it. Nothing like 35" Goodyear MT/Rs howling down the freeway.

To be honest, most people dont understand. People that have Wranglers, love em', people that dont, hate em'. Its true. You have to own it to understand. No other vehicle stock for stock will compete with a Wrangler offroad. It is the best, bar none. I have about 10 grand of aftermarket crap on my rig, and its worth every penny:)

josh
 
budster101 Jul 6, 2005 12:07 AM
Sort of like Apple computers. Those that don't say they won't, and those that do, love them.
 
Ozmodiar Jul 6, 2005 12:36 AM
I have a '95 Grande Cherokee with 200,000+ miles on it. Jeeps (in my experience, anyway) are good cars.
 
phantomdragonz Jul 6, 2005 12:46 AM
no one else (here) knows as much about wranglers as I do, hot me up with any question and I can get it answered, or answer it myself...

I own a 1989 Jeep wrangler with a 4.2L straight six... this was the model with the carburated engine, and I hate it, but the point is I know all about the transfercases the transmissions, the axles, and more importantly how to modify them to go offroad

Jeeps are GREAT in cold weather, of yuo get one with a hard top they are VERY similar to a normal car, but with great 4 wheel drive... a softtop version is much louder, but bareable, they do great in winter, but not as great as a hard top version... I have driven mine with and without the hard top on (with a full softtop in winter) and I prefer the softtop because it is easier to take off in the warmer days!!! and thats the great part about a jeep... going topless and doorless, let me tell you, there is nothing like it!

also, if you are going to buy a jeep wrangler get one with the 4.0 in it, the 2.54 banger just does not do the job as the 6 will, trust me, they get about the same gass milage too...

shoot me up with any questions you have, i will be happy to answer them, I am in a rush as i post this, otherwise I would have added more...

Zach
 
kappa4life Jul 6, 2005 01:07 AM
I dont know phantom, I bet I am up there with ya in the knowledge department.

And I agree, whats this nonsense about Jeeps sucking cold weather?

The 4.0 is worth the extra torque and power.

I know a LOT about moddin' Jeeps as well. My Jeep has been through a lot. and it has a lot of stuff done to it, Id be glad to help with any questions as well.

josh
 
iLikebeer Jul 6, 2005 01:17 AM
++ what Randman, phantomdragonz, and kappa4life said
4.0L and 5 speed. All the others were made for high school girls and pretty boys to show off with.
What's this about cold weather? The jeep heaters fire up quick and put out hot fiery goodness even in the worst blizzard conditions with only a bikini top on.
A jeep gives you more freedom than any other vehicle, if you can deal with the road noise, mpg, bumpy ride, and all the other great things that make a jeep a jeep.
http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/594...jeep1ry.th.jpg
http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/7...10126oo.th.jpg
 
boston_errol Jul 6, 2005 01:17 AM
yea we just bought an unlimited last week... 6 speed softtop. it's sick
 
Severed Hand of Skywalker Jul 6, 2005 01:35 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by rozwado1
Besides the inital price, you'll have to spend $100 or so to get "IF YOU CAN READ THIS, FLIP ME OVER" painted upside-down on your front windshield. There's a thought.
Nice :D
 
phantomdragonz Jul 6, 2005 03:56 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by kappa4life
I dont know phantom, I bet I am up there with ya in the knowledge department.
I figured someone would....

bottom line, jeeps are fun, take the top and doors off and drive around on a good day, if you are not sold, then dont buy a jeep...

Zach
 
Randman Jul 6, 2005 04:10 AM
And be wary of advice from anyone who has never owned a Jeep Wrangler.
 
suvsr4terrorists Jul 6, 2005 08:52 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by kappa4life
I dont know phantom, I bet I am up there with ya in the knowledge department.

And I agree, whats this nonsense about Jeeps sucking cold weather?
The soft top sucks?

With all the snow on it, blech. It starts to get stretched out too when there's heavy snowfall, and it isn't very well insulated at all.
 
suvsr4terrorists Jul 6, 2005 08:53 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by phantomdragonz
no one else (here) knows as much about wranglers as I do, hot me up with any question and I can get it answered, or answer it myself...

I own a 1989 Jeep wrangler with a 4.2L straight six... this was the model with the carburated engine, and I hate it, but the point is I know all about the transfercases the transmissions, the axles, and more importantly how to modify them to go offroad

Jeeps are GREAT in cold weather, of yuo get one with a hard top they are VERY similar to a normal car, but with great 4 wheel drive... a softtop version is much louder, but bareable, they do great in winter, but not as great as a hard top version... I have driven mine with and without the hard top on (with a full softtop in winter) and I prefer the softtop because it is easier to take off in the warmer days!!! and thats the great part about a jeep... going topless and doorless, let me tell you, there is nothing like it!

also, if you are going to buy a jeep wrangler get one with the 4.0 in it, the 2.54 banger just does not do the job as the 6 will, trust me, they get about the same gass milage too...

shoot me up with any questions you have, i will be happy to answer them, I am in a rush as i post this, otherwise I would have added more...

Zach
But you go offroading, right?
 
mitchell_pgh Jul 6, 2005 09:38 AM
My buddy had a wrangler and he loved it. I agree that you should get the hard top for winters and the larger tires. I would consider a different vehicle if you drive a good distance to work every day.

They are VERY fun.
 
mitchell_pgh Jul 6, 2005 09:41 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by suvsr4terrorists
The soft top sucks?

With all the snow on it, blech. It starts to get stretched out too when there's heavy snowfall, and it isn't very well insulated at all.
That's why they have VERY large heaters. If you are going to be in the cold a good portion of the year, consider seat warmers if you don't have a hard top (get the hard top).
 
iLikebeer Jul 6, 2005 11:27 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by mitchell_pgh
That's why they have VERY large heaters. If you are going to be in the cold a good portion of the year, consider seat warmers if you don't have a hard top (get the hard top).
Yeah, other reasons to get the hard top (or dual top):
-The windows. If it's below freezing, those flexible windows don't flex much. They crack very easily and get scratched up. They always fog up, too.
-Theft. If you have anything nice in a soft top jeep, always take it inside. Don't get attached to your stereo. Or if you do get the soft top, take off the doors so people assume there's nothing valuable inside if you don't even care enough to put on doors.
-If you're driving in the mountains or off roading, the hard top will give you better protection from small rock slides or anything like that.
-The soft top rattles and takes up a lot of the trunk area when you want to put it down. You have to fold the windows up right and all that jazz. I've noticed older jeeps are a serious pain because of shrinkage, worn out zippers, and tearing. Get a friend to help take off the hard top and you're set.

There are only 2 things I don't like about jeeps.
1 If you live in a place like Arizona with crap all over the roads, expect to go through a lot of windshields. I've had some bad luck with rocks on the road and have to get my 2nd new one this year alone. Not sure if it will be my 5th or 6th new windshield on it.
2 Hopefully they have fixed this, but the emergency blinker switch is on top of the steering wheel column. It is not waterproof and leads rainwater directly to the ignition. If you drive around a lot with the top off, make sure to goop it up with silicone and hope you don't need quick access to the blinkers.
 
SOLIDAge Jul 6, 2005 11:36 AM
]Wow thanks for all the responses.

Anyway.
I live in CT and it's winter/cold a pretty goood chunk of the year.
right now i am comutting to school from my apartment which is about 30 minutes, but I will be transfering to Uconn soon so the commute will be widdled down to 3 minutes :)

I love the outdoors, and i love my Tahoe, but it's just to big, and I need something that can handle the grind i give it, but not as large. I also work as the director of an outside camp, and actually drive around the back paths of a local park alot during the summer. During the summer i also camp alot.

the biggest "strain" is every now and then i'll drive an hour and 1/2 or so to band practice that is held across the state, or even more rarely go to New York to vist frists.
QUESTIONS
How are they when it comes to miles? what is the average life of a Wrangler?
what about average MPG.
i don't want to sound like a snot, but gas isn't that much of an issue at this second because my father owns a gas station and it's just a write off ;)
i have ZERO knowledge really of standards vs automatics. the most i've ever driven an standard is backing my dad's vette out of the garage.
is it true one is less "ballzie"? should i not even concider an automatic?

thanks for helping me guys.
 
Mastrap Jul 6, 2005 12:24 PM
If you're thinking about off-roading then you definitely should go for standard. Far more control that way. I used to drive a 1964 Land Rover Series IIa with a non synchro gearbox. That old truck would beat anything modern in the bush.
 
kappa4life Jul 6, 2005 12:36 PM
What Mastrap said about the manual. You have So much more control offroad. You can rock it back and forth and what not.

As far as mileage, it depends on how hard you drive it. One thing I noticed is My Jeep with 35" tires and 4.56 gears, gets around 15-17 MPG on an average tank. IF you dont go 80 down the freeway all the time, you will be fine. Keep in mind, if you add larger tires, anything over a 33", you will need to upgrade gears to restore performance and mileage.

Jeeps are reliable and can go a LONG LONG time with proper maintenance. The 4.0 is a rock solid motor and will go for ever. Its torquey as hell. 85% of its torque at idle, which makes it GREAT for crawling and what not.

Anyway, as far as the 2.5, vs the 4.0. Its completely up to you. I mean, I know a lot of guys with the 4 cylinder that go just as far with the guys in the 4.0 go. To be honest, there isnt a huge difference offfroad because you are mainly using your gears and suspension, atleast where I live, AZ, there are a buncha rocks. Big rocks. So thats all we see...Back in CT, Im sure theres mud, which the 4.0 would benifit you. The main difference is on the highway. On the street the 4.0 has more grunt.
 
Randman Jul 6, 2005 12:45 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by suvsr4terrorists
The soft top sucks?

With all the snow on it, blech. It starts to get stretched out too when there's heavy snowfall, and it isn't very well insulated at all.
Have you owned a Jeep?
 
iLikebeer Jul 6, 2005 12:47 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by SOLIDAge
]Wow thanks for all the responses.

Anyway.
I live in CT and it's winter/cold a pretty goood chunk of the year.
right now i am comutting to school from my apartment which is about 30 minutes, but I will be transfering to Uconn soon so the commute will be widdled down to 3 minutes :)
You'd be fine. I got mine when I lived in Park City, UT and had to drive 10 minutes to the ski resort every day even if there was several feet of unplowed snow, then drive almost an hour down to SLC to go to school.
Quote
QUESTIONS
How are they when it comes to miles? what is the average life of a Wrangler?
what about average MPG.
i don't want to sound like a snot, but gas isn't that much of an issue at this second because my father owns a gas station and it's just a write off ;)
i have ZERO knowledge really of standards vs automatics. the most i've ever driven an standard is backing my dad's vette out of the garage.
is it true one is less "ballzie"? should i not even concider an automatic?
Wranglers can last forever if they are taken care of. Off roading is no problem, but playing in the mud will make you have to replace parts eventually.
I usually get about 16 mpg, but it can range from 13 to 20 depending on how you drive and if you have the top on or off.
Jeeps are one of the best cars to learn 5 speed on; the gears are spaced far apart, the clutch has a lot of travel, the 4.0L gives you plenty of power to idle when changing gears (1st gear is easy in a jeep cause of off roading gear ratio), and the transmission is tough. You won't regret it and everyone should know how to drive a 5 speed.
Once most people get to drive a Wrangler for a while, they're Jeep people for life.
Have fun
 
Randman Jul 6, 2005 12:51 PM
As I said earlier, I had my Wrangler for about 18 months when I was working in Duluth, Minnesota. It handled winters just fine, even with a soft top.
 
mitchell_pgh Jul 6, 2005 12:57 PM
I would say that they aren't amazing on ice. People tend to think that Jeep = "Good on ice" and I found that not to be all that true.

Perhaps that was my experience...
 
Hugi Jul 6, 2005 01:00 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by Mastrap
If you're thinking about off-roading then you definitely should go for standard. Far more control that way. I used to drive a 1964 Land Rover Series IIa with a non synchro gearbox. That old truck would beat anything modern in the bush.
Oh man, I'm dying to get an old Landie. Now there's a car suitable for the Icelandic highlands.
 
iLikebeer Jul 6, 2005 01:01 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by Randman
As I said earlier, I had my Wrangler for about 18 months when I was working in Duluth, Minnesota. It handled winters just fine, even with a soft top.
Yeah, I've been getting jealous of the softtop jeeps when I want to take the top off and it's not convenient. :p
I survived 3+ years with only a bikini top and tonneau cover. The lady wasn't liking it this winter so I put it back on. Monsoon season should start next Thursday or Friday here, so I'm going to try it out for the summer with the top on.
 
Randman Jul 6, 2005 01:19 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by mitchell_pgh
I would say that they aren't amazing on ice. People tend to think that Jeep = "Good on ice" and I found that not to be all that true..
No vehicle is good on ice. On ice, your driving skills matter most. Learning to turn into the turn when you lose traction does take practice.

That said, in winter in Duluth, there's often large snow banks in many places. At night I took my Jeep out and would drive around then stick it in neutral and hit the parking brake and spin around till the snow bank braked the Jeep. Never even got a dent doing it. Fun stuff.

Now, on snow, the Jeep's a champ.
 
jersey Jul 6, 2005 01:58 PM
i had one when i lived in cleveland...overall ....meh.

it was cold in the winter, and almost too hot in the summer. it handled like crap... all the time, and they're loud as hell. plus, mine had an oil pressure issue (which i found out to be pretty common after talking to a few others)

however it was awesome off road, and the chicks loved it.

just f.y.i.
 
finboy Jul 6, 2005 02:05 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by Randman
Now, on snow, the Jeep's a champ.
I always figured that the short wheelbase would be a problem.

When I lived in the mountains of VA I used to see lots of Wranglers parked in the ditches during snows, but I think it was because the college boys who owned them didn't know how to drive.

Talk you out of buying a Jeep? Four little words -- it's a Jeep.
 
KeyLimePi Jul 6, 2005 02:47 PM
If you can wait six or seven months, you might want to consider the new Toyota FJ Cruiser. I've never owned a Wrangler, but I know the new FJ is designed to compete with it headon. The dimensions are similar to the Wrangler Rubicon, but with some nice additional features. Plus it's a Toyota, which has a great reputation for quality and a high resale value.

http://www.cruisercontrol.com/galler...4664354965.jpg
 
His Dudeness Jul 6, 2005 02:52 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by suvsr4terrorists
Small engines + automatic= horsepoo acceleration. Get a manual.

That said, wranglers suck ass in cold weather, they're pretty much a warm weather only vehicle. Considering your current location, I'd say if you got one you'd sell it within a couple years. They ride like total ass, they're really really really loud at freeway speeds, they have crap ergonomics and they suck gas like a pig.

But they're competent offroad machines. And chicks dig them.

How often do you go offroad?

Wrong on all points, my friend. I had a 97 SE with the 4 cylinder. It acceclerated well enough, you just have to know how to shift gears. And Wranglers have the best heaters I've EVER seen in any car, so the cold weather won't bother you... And the soft top is loud at highway speeds, but the hard top isn't. And you don't buy a Wrangler for ergonomics. That's what BMW's and Audi's are for. And they don't get any worse gas mileage than my Hemi Durango.

And yes, the chicks dig them. :lol:

I'm thinking about getting another one soon. I miss mine very much badly.
 
Randman Jul 6, 2005 02:57 PM
That's so ugly.
 
suvsr4terrorists Jul 6, 2005 10:00 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by SOLIDAge
]Wow thanks for all the responses.

Anyway.
I live in CT and it's winter/cold a pretty goood chunk of the year.
Wranglers suck in cold weather, in my experiences.

Quote
right now i am comutting to school from my apartment which is about 30 minutes, but I will be transfering to Uconn soon so the commute will be widdled down to 3 minutes :)
Then let's make this clear: You do NOT need an SUV. Repeat. You don't need an SUV. If 90% of the time you're on a road, you don't need one. Period. If you want one, that's your choice, but be prepared for poor mpg, handling, braking, acceleration, lots of noise, shitty ride, and a lot less safety.

Quote
I love the outdoors, and i love my Tahoe, but it's just to big, and I need something that can handle the grind i give it, but not as large. I also work as the director of an outside camp, and actually drive around the back paths of a local park alot during the summer. During the summer i also camp alot.
Then chances are a car could handle those requirements. Will it be as good as a jeep on a trail? No. You'll have to slow down. Will it be able to climb anything? No, you'll have drive slowly on fairly level ground without big trees. Will it kick the jeeps ass the rest of the year (the other 98% of hte time you're on the road)? YES. I go camping quite a bit, and I have to drive off the road 'sometimes' and I go down trails occasionally. In what? My LOWERED subaru SVX.

http://richard.quetand.free.fr/photo...baru%20SVX.jpg

If my lowered quasi sports car can handle 'offroading' at low speeds and light trail use, a normal car will be fine. Again, you do not NEED an SUV.

Quote
I have ZERO knowledge really of standards vs automatics. the most i've ever driven an standard is backing my dad's vette out of the garage.
is it true one is less "ballzie"? should i not even concider an automatic?.
Here's a good example. Remember first generation neons, the older ones? A 5spd neon will run about 15.9 seconds in the quarter mile. That SAME car, with the SAME engine with an automatic, will run a 17.9-18.5 second quarter mile. Thats over a 2 second difference. On top of that, automatics get less MPG. NEVER get an automatic with a smaller engine. Ever. It's awful.
 
suvsr4terrorists Jul 6, 2005 10:03 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by Randman
Have you owned a Jeep?
Learn to read. I quoted myself for you.

"friend who had one"
 
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