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subego Sep 16, 2011 03:28 AM
Were You Spanked?
Hit me.
 
Doofy Sep 16, 2011 03:43 AM
What? Last night?
 
subego Sep 16, 2011 03:45 AM
It's clarified for purvs in the poll question.
 
gradient Sep 16, 2011 04:33 AM
I was, and would. Like most things, moderation is key - it's only effective if it really means something.
 
Shaddim Sep 16, 2011 04:48 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by gradient (Post 4111731)
I was, and would. Like most things, moderation is key - it's only effective if it really means something.
:thumbsup:

Use spanking as a "last resort".
Always administer a spanking when you're calm, if need be send them to their room and use the time to relax.
Hit their arse, not their backs or thighs.
Don't hit them hard, the fact that you're spanking them at all will usually be enough to be an effective deterrent.
Use a paddle, thick strap, or your hand, no belts or "switches". My grandmother liked to use a green flexible limb from a tree and I thought it was a little extreme. My dad used a belt and sometimes it could break the skin.
Talk with your child before and after the spanking to let them know why you did it.
It really is tougher for the parent than the child. I only did it once, but I hated spanking my nephew. I can't imagine it will be any easier with my own children.

There, now go forth and apply discipline, the kids of today need it.
 
Athens Sep 16, 2011 05:07 AM
No but I wouldn't hesitate to spank if the situation required it. Though I would be looking over my shoulders since its now illegal as of 2008 here.
 
subego Sep 16, 2011 08:21 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by Shaddim (Post 4111740)
It really is tougher for the parent than the child. I only did it once, but I hated spanking my nephew. I can't imagine it will be any easier with my own children.
What did he do?
 
Big Mac Sep 16, 2011 08:32 AM
Nope. And I don't think I would do it unless absolutely required to correct serious misbehavior.
 
Shaddim Sep 16, 2011 08:43 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by subego (Post 4111770)
What did he do?
He broke a valuable antique while playing ball in the house, after I had told him not to. Then he was belligerent with my wife after she scolded him and told him to go to his room. So, I spanked him and made him go to his bedroom for the rest of the day, without TV, video games, or computer.
 
The Final Dakar Sep 16, 2011 10:33 AM
Well, I was going to come in here and make some kind joke about the title, but since you've all beaten me to the punch I'll instead feign condescension regarding your humor and call it obvious and infantile.
 
Thorzdad Sep 16, 2011 10:57 AM
Oh, yeah. Mom was pretty handy with the paddle, and anything else she might have handy. Dad, on the other hand, never raised a hand to me or my brother.
 
The Final Dakar Sep 16, 2011 10:57 AM
Paddles? That seems worthy of yet another poll. (Belts, too, I suppose)
 
osiris Sep 16, 2011 11:01 AM
Let us not forget whips, chains, and the beloved mace ball.
 
Thorzdad Sep 16, 2011 11:02 AM
No, no belts. Just a ping-pong paddle every once in awhile. She used her hand most of the time.
 
The Final Dakar Sep 16, 2011 11:04 AM
This may be apocryphal, but I seem to recall a kid who once put a matchbox car in his back jeans pocket before a spanking. Let's just say the it easily hurt the parent more than the child that time.
 
osiris Sep 16, 2011 11:12 AM
Smart kid there.

As a child, if things ever got out of hand I would to pack my mom's cigs with exploding cigarette loads.
 
subego Sep 16, 2011 11:33 AM
All of this talk of matches totally brings back the memories of almost burning the house down when I was six.

Hadn't thought about that in a decade.
 
MrsLarry Sep 16, 2011 12:54 PM
I was not, and hope I don't have to for my own. Like most other disciplinary actions, if you do it right the first few times, then just the threat of it should work after that. (well, theoretically, at least)

Edit: I didn't have "time outs" either. Just the looming threat of the trouble I'd be in if I disobeyed. I'm on the fence about how I feel about "time outs"
 
gradient Sep 16, 2011 01:04 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by Athens (Post 4111745)
No but I wouldn't hesitate to spank if the situation required it. Though I would be looking over my shoulders since its now illegal as of 2008 here.
Are you sure about that? I thought it was legal in Canada for kids older than 2 and younger than 12.
 
ort888 Sep 16, 2011 01:26 PM
I was spanked, but very rarely. Probably 2-3 times through my entire childhood.
 
OAW Sep 16, 2011 01:56 PM
When I was coming up the African-American community used different terms for specific types of corporal punishment:

A. If your punishment was meted out with a hand across your behind then we'd say you got a spanking.

B. If it was delivered with an object such as a belt, switch, paddle, or extension cord anywhere below the waist then we'd say you got a whupping. If you did something really bad you might catch this coming out of the bath tub still dripping wet. Much worse than fully clothed. Ouch!

C. If you caught a quick slap across the face or mouth for talking back or being disrespectful we'd say you got popped.

D. If you received B but above the waist, or were struck with a closed fist, or were in any way bloodied or bruised then we'd say you got a beating.

My mother was the primary disciplinarian when I was growing up. My father only got involved for the most egregious of offenses. And that was something you definitely did not want. As a very young child I'd get spanked when warranted. As an older child I'd get whupped on occasion ... but not very often because by then just knowing that such punishment was on the table was generally enough to keep me in line. By the time I was a teenager I no longer received any corporal punishment. I do recall getting popped once when I got particularly out of line ... but that's the only exception I remember. This was mainly because by then I'd developed "parent management skills" and I'd figured out that staying out of trouble and doing what I was supposed to do was the #1 way to get to do what I wanted to do. But also because 1) I was much taller than my mother by then, and 2) if a parent hasn't gotten their child in check by the time they are a teenager it's way too late to try to do it anyway ... especially by getting physical. Most in the African-American community then (and perhaps even now) only considered a beating to be "child abuse". And it was most definitely something that would get you ostracized if you went there.

OAW
 
Athens Sep 16, 2011 02:49 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by gradient (Post 4111834)
Are you sure about that? I thought it was legal in Canada for kids older than 2 and younger than 12.
That was from a court ruling in 2004 and the interpretation of the law at the time. Same year because of that ruling a bill was created which became law in 2008 to end all forms of corporal punishment.

Senators approve anti-spanking bill - Canada - CBC News

No more spanking in Canada? - Instablogs

Making it illegal.
 
gradient Sep 16, 2011 06:47 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by Athens (Post 4111866)
That was from a court ruling in 2004 and the interpretation of the law at the time. Same year because of that ruling a bill was created which became law in 2008 to end all forms of corporal punishment.

Senators approve anti-spanking bill - Canada - CBC News

No more spanking in Canada? - Instablogs

Making it illegal.
Interesting. I hadn't heard of that coming in, somehow. Here's the passage that I found from the government site:

Bill s-209, Text of Bill

That reads REALLY ambiguously, even more open ended then the original law if you ask me. For one thing, it doesn't actually say anything about banning corporal punishment at all, just that parents are justified in using force other than corporal punishment. I think you're right about their intention but the interpretation is very much open to debate if it were brought to the courts.

Second, they completely failed to include a specific definition of harm. In my mind, for example, if I were to spank my child in an effort to teach them a valuable life lesson I would definitely argue that the purpose was to 'prevent or minimize harm to the child', though the harm in question wouldn't have been physical.

Lastly, the use of the word transitory is also very much open for interpretation. Is ten seconds a brief period? 15 seconds? I'd say so, but a 15 second spanking feels like an eternity when you're 8 years old.
 
OAW Sep 16, 2011 07:03 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by Athens
That was from a court ruling in 2004 and the interpretation of the law at the time. Same year because of that ruling a bill was created which became law in 2008 to end all forms of corporal punishment.

Senators approve anti-spanking bill - Canada - CBC News

No more spanking in Canada? - Instablogs

Making it illegal.
See it's this type of silliness from so-called parenting "experts" in conjunction with do-gooder politicians that has so many kids running around out-of-control these days. I've seen kids in stores throwing temper tantrums, falling all out in the middle of the floor, cussing at their parents, etc. When I was coming up if you even dreamed of embarrassing your parents in public you'd better wake up and apologize! Because you were subject to an ass whupping where you stood. It didn't matter where you were or who was around. So you hardly ever saw that type of foolishness. But let someone check their kid in the middle of the grocery store like that today and they're liable to be arrested and their kid put into foster care.

Not too long ago I was on a flight with the demon toddler from hell sitting in the row in front of us. The flight was delayed nearly 30 minutes because this little monster would not stay in his seat with the seatbelt strapped. Just kept getting up and trying to run up and down the aisle or play on the floor. And his mother is sitting there talking "Now stop that Johnny. Mommy needs you to sit down and put your seatbelt on. Please stay in your seat honey." Over and over again ... practically begging this kid to do as he was told. I could tell just from the tone of her voice and her body language that she was the "no spanking, coddling" type who's kid would walk all over her until he reached adulthood. Actually sitting there trying to reason with a toddler. Un-freaking-believable! And that was bad enough. What's worse is that even if she had the fortitude to swap that little brat's behind, force him into his seat, and threaten him to within an inch of his life if he got up again .... some busy body on the plane would have reported her to the police. You know when the flight finally took off? When the kid got tired and took his little ass to sleep. An entire flight delayed for half and hour because of a parent who lost sight of who's the adult and who's the child. :shake:

OAW
 
subego Sep 16, 2011 09:00 PM
What exactly were all you hellions doing?
 
Waragainstsleep Sep 16, 2011 11:16 PM
I can remember getting spanked as a kid. Can't recall any specific crime that got me spanked though. It certainly didn't happen often.
 
subego Sep 16, 2011 11:47 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by The Final Dakar (Post 4111803)
Paddles? That seems worthy of yet another poll. (Belts, too, I suppose)
I dated a girl who said her dad spanked her a lot a lot growing up.

"With his hand?" I asked.

"Oh no" she replied, "with a slipper".
 
ghporter Sep 17, 2011 11:22 AM
I remember two spankings as a kid, one being for playing with matches in the basement, and the other for wandering off and not coming home when it got dark (must have also been a school night). My father had "the belt," but it was always used as an ultimate threat, as in "Don't make me get The Belt..."

I do not consider the occasional swat on the butt as a spanking. That was an attention getter, nothing more, and never enough to even smart, just enough to get me to focus on what Mom or Dad was saying, and I don't think that happened very often, either. I certainly wasn't a punishment.

I "spanked" my son maybe twice, a couple of swats on the bum with an open hand, and used as an actual punishment before some sort of time out. That didn't work with him, so neither my wife nor I continued to use it. No form of guidance works if the child isn't paying attention, and this is something I see a lot of parents mess up on. Kids tend to be very focused on what they are attending to, and a whack for whatever reason is useless unless you have first gotten the child to notice you. Getting my son's attention usually took tapping him on the arm a few times until he actually turned to look at us. From there, it never took anything physical - although I won't say it was easy to direct him.
 
subego Sep 17, 2011 05:30 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by ghporter (Post 4112045)
I remember two spankings as a kid, one being for playing with matches in the basement, and the other for wandering off and not coming home when it got dark (must have also been a school night). My father had "the belt," but it was always used as an ultimate threat, as in "Don't make me get The Belt..."
Interestingly, these are almost the exact same two worst things I did as a kid.

I'm assuming I didn't get spanked because my dad is an anti-spanking hippy, but frankly, it wasn't necessary. Standard (legitimate) non-contact anger was enough to make me realize I had made a huge mistake and never to do those things again.

Hell, those were really the only times he even got massively angry that I can recall. His usual motivator was to express disappointment.
 
Spheric Harlot Sep 17, 2011 06:02 PM
No, you obviously didn't learn your lesson.

How could you, given that you weren't spanked?

(As I said over in the other thread:

"Either the kid is level-headed enough to be open to reason; then physical violence is unnecessary. The parents have done something right.

Or the kid is ****ed up and won't respond to coherent/emotional arguments; then physical violence is useless.

You fail to realize that you didn't turn out okay because of spankings, but DESPITE them.")
 
subego Sep 17, 2011 06:08 PM
Along the same lines I think it's funny you'll have situations like where Waragainstsleep remembers getting spanked, but has no recollection of the behavior spanking was supposed to stop.
 
Lateralus Sep 17, 2011 06:50 PM
This poll needs more options; What's the middle ground between spankings and beatings?
 
subego Sep 17, 2011 07:02 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by Lateralus (Post 4112097)
What's the middle ground between spankings and beatings?
A different thread.
 
lpkmckenna Sep 17, 2011 08:57 PM
I was spanked, but I don't remember it as an effective punishment for me, and I wouldn't do it myself.

I was also occasionally smacked, meaning an immediate smack on the butt or hands or face, usually for doing something mean to my sister or doing something dangerous, but it was always an "in the moment" thing, and not a considered action by my parents. I think the smack on the butt was usually effective, but smacks to the face usually created resentment. Once my dad bloodied my nose with a smack, which I remember very clearly, but I don't recall why it happened. Frankly, I can't remember a single specific event which led to being hit, only that it was vaguely related to fighting with my sister or being a smart ass.

My parent fought over corporal punishment a lot, usually because my dad would do it and mom was angry about it, but she did it more often than he. Moreover, my dad's punishments were usually more considered and my mom's more impulsive. But my mom was beaten by her father, and had to run away from home at 16, so any aggression by my dad triggered her anger.

The lesson of my childhood is: it's not worth it. It caused more grief than anything, and was rarely effective.

My parent's other punishments, like being grounded, always wore off quickly, so a week of grounding quickly melted away to a day and a half. About the only thing I hated was being yelled at, which happened a lot, and our family has treasured many "Velda-isms," as my mom could be very creative that way.

Overall, my parents weren't very good disciplinarians. Punishments for important things like stealing were light or non-existent (I was extremely theft-prone as a kid), while little things like talking back triggered harsh responses. However, knowing more about my parents' terrible upbringing informed my perspective more than any personal experiences.
 
lpkmckenna Sep 17, 2011 09:03 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep (Post 4111997)
I can remember getting spanked as a kid. Can't recall any specific crime that got me spanked though.
I expect that is most people's experience, which might be why it's not very effective.
 
turtle777 Sep 17, 2011 09:20 PM
Anchor 1: Did you get many spankings as a kid ?
Anchor 2: Uhm, as a kid ? No. [blank stare] Oh, wait...

:lol:

News Blooper - Spanked as a kid? www.wasabi.nu - YouTube

-t
 
Waragainstsleep Sep 17, 2011 10:05 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by lpkmckenna (Post 4112121)
I expect that is most people's experience, which might be why it's not very effective.
What are you trying to say???!!! ;)

Whatever it was, I'm pretty sure I never did it again.
 
Jawbone54 Sep 18, 2011 04:13 AM
I only remember getting spanked around 20 times. However, those few times made me famous for my flopping-fish defense mechanism. Upon first lick, I'd plummet to the floor and flop wildly along until I reached something to hide behind. The by-product was my parents would start laughing and be unable to finish the whipping.

I really didn't do much that warranted spankings, as my early childhood consisted almost entirely of reading, drawing, and playing basketball outside. By the time I really deserved to be beaten nearly to death, I was already 15 or 16, and my last spanking only served to make me incredibly angry. My parents should've taken a cat of nine tails to me from 15-18.
 
Jawbone54 Sep 18, 2011 04:18 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by lpkmckenna (Post 4112118)
I was spanked, but I don't remember it as an effective punishment for me, and I wouldn't do it myself.

I was also occasionally smacked, meaning an immediate smack on the butt or hands or face, usually for doing something mean to my sister or doing something dangerous, but it was always an "in the moment" thing, and not a considered action by my parents. I think the smack on the butt was usually effective, but smacks to the face usually created resentment. Once my dad bloodied my nose with a smack, which I remember very clearly, but I don't recall why it happened. Frankly, I can't remember a single specific event which led to being hit, only that it was vaguely related to fighting with my sister or being a smart ass.

My parent fought over corporal punishment a lot, usually because my dad would do it and mom was angry about it, but she did it more often than he. Moreover, my dad's punishments were usually more considered and my mom's more impulsive. But my mom was beaten by her father, and had to run away from home at 16, so any aggression by my dad triggered her anger.
I hate that your mom suffered through that. Nothing is more tragic than abused children.

Quote
The lesson of my childhood is: it's not worth it. It caused more grief than anything, and was rarely effective.

My parent's other punishments, like being grounded, always wore off quickly, so a week of grounding quickly melted away to a day and a half. About the only thing I hated was being yelled at, which happened a lot, and our family has treasured many "Velda-isms," as my mom could be very creative that way.
Every child is different, I suppose. Some react positively to (properly administered) corporal punishment, while others seem to actually be fueled by it.
 
subego Sep 18, 2011 06:10 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by Jawbone54 (Post 4112161)
My parents should've taken a cat of nine tails to me from 15-18.
[scene missing]
 
hart Sep 18, 2011 09:32 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by OAW (Post 4111949)

Not too long ago I was on a flight with the demon toddler from hell sitting in the row in front of us. The flight was delayed nearly 30 minutes because this little monster would not stay in his seat with the seatbelt strapped. Just kept getting up and trying to run up and down the aisle or play on the floor. And his mother is sitting there talking "Now stop that Johnny. Mommy needs you to sit down and put your seatbelt on. Please stay in your seat honey." Over and over again ... practically begging this kid to do as he was told. I could tell just from the tone of her voice and her body language that she was the "no spanking, coddling" type who's kid would walk all over her until he reached adulthood. Actually sitting there trying to reason with a toddler. Un-freaking-believable! And that was bad enough. What's worse is that even if she had the fortitude to swap that little brat's behind, force him into his seat, and threaten him to within an inch of his life if he got up again .... some busy body on the plane would have reported her to the police. You know when the flight finally took off? When the kid got tired and took his little ass to sleep. An entire flight delayed for half and hour because of a parent who lost sight of who's the adult and who's the child. :shake:

OAW
Assuming that spanking is the solution to this kind of behavior is simply illogical. That kind of parenting (the same thing occurs in dog owners) is a problem unto itself that isn't related to spanking or not spanking. I regard spanking with a certain horror and decided it was simply not an option with my kids. But they knew I meant it when I said stop something. The "now Timmy, Mommy isn't going to be happy if you don't stop that" said in a saccharine voice with no power behind it is INTENSELY annoying because it's obvious to all including the child that the parent has no intention of actually making it happen. But saying that the alternative is spanking is simplistic and looks on parenting as having two possible options.

I say this now with 3 older kids (11,13 and 16) who are clearly polite and obedient without being drones in spite of (or because of) a lack of spanking. I've always thought of discipline as basically using the Force (nerd mama). It's all about your mind power guiding their mind power into an appropriate path. Which sounds a little vague I know but whatever punishment or consequence I ever used it was the force behind it that made it functional, not the actual act of punishment.

Drives me crazy when I see dog owners who act like that with their dogs. "Now Spot, don't bite that lady. Mommy won't be happy (pouty face.)"

On the other hand that plane scenario is every parent's nightmare. Would you have been all happy if the mom had actually spanked the kid and then he started screaming and crying for 45 minutes? No, probably not. Toddler+plane=no win situation unfortunately. There are just developmental issues in the way that make it impossible for a toddler to behave appropriately in this kind of situation. "Threaten him to within an inch of his life if he got up again" is not a functional action with a toddler. Also, any parent in that situation knows that as soon as the child starts screaming half the adults on the plane are going to be in an angry pout about it and this woman may have been desperately trying to avoid the screaming. But in the end the parent needed to MAKE the right action happen, screaming or no screaming. It's just doesn't logically follow that spanking is the necessary tool.

As for me, I remember feeling intense scorn for my parents when they resorted to spanking. In that sense it was an ineffectual method of punishment. It meant they had run out of options in their quest to control me and indicated desperation on their part. So in a sense I felt I had won that round and that I had the power as a result.
 
Spheric Harlot Sep 18, 2011 10:49 AM
Awesome post, thank you.

This bit, especially:
Quote, Originally Posted by hart (Post 4112186)
As for me, I remember feeling intense scorn for my parents when they resorted to spanking. In that sense it was an ineffectual method of punishment. It meant they had run out of options in their quest to control me and indicated desperation on their part. So in a sense I felt I had won that round and that I had the power as a result.
It's like those idiots who think threatening violence instills "respect" in people.

No, it doesn't, you moron. I have ZERO respect for you. I leave you alone because you're stupid enough to cause me bodily harm if I try to interact on a normal level with you.

Fear ≠ Respect.
 
MrsLarry Sep 18, 2011 11:11 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot (Post 4112192)

It's like those idiots who think threatening violence instills "respect" in people.

No, it doesn't, you moron. I have ZERO respect for you. I leave you alone because you're stupid enough to cause me bodily harm if I try to interact on a normal level with you.

Fear ≠ Respect.
I'm big on this as well. I think, as a child, I behaved well (most of the time) for a couple of reasons and one is that my mom developed a respect for my elders in me. I did what I was told. Also, I realized in my tween years that it was just easier to follow the rules than to break them and get punished (grounded, no tv, etc). i never had a curfew, because my mom didn't need to give me one, she knew where I was going and who with, and approximately what time I'd be home, and if things changed, I'd call.
 
Waragainstsleep Sep 18, 2011 12:04 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by subego (Post 4112094)
Along the same lines I think it's funny you'll have situations like where Waragainstsleep remembers getting spanked, but has no recollection of the behavior spanking was supposed to stop.
Whatever it was, I'm pretty sure I stopped it. My long term memory isn't what it used to be. Unfortunate side effect of being stoned for a decade or so.
 
subego Sep 18, 2011 06:45 PM
Oh. I wasn't assuming you continued.

Stoned or not, I just think it's notable the punishment has lingered far longer than its context.
 
Waragainstsleep Sep 18, 2011 06:54 PM
Actually I think spanking is potentially a more useful disciplinary tool if you never threaten to do it. I think it was the shock of a parent actually resorting to it that got the message home that I'd dome something really wrong more than the actual spanking itself.
 
ghporter Sep 18, 2011 07:19 PM
Children are INCAPABLE of reason as adults understand that term until they are at least 12 or 13. Their brains aren't developed enough for abstract thought, and even at that age they make extremely poor decisions based on their extremely sketchy use of abstraction. So "reasoning" with a toddler is a waste of everyone's time. A preschool kid can bargain, as long as the terms are concrete and immediate: "stay completely quiet until we take off, and I'll let you have a snack before we land" is about the extent of it, and the parent has to regularly, sometimes constantly, remind the child of the bargain. Anyone younger than 4 should be expected to not understand even that.

You give small kids two choices: your way with this twist or your way with that twist, as in sit quiet and read your picture book, or sit quiet and listen to a talking book. Present this as "do you want your picture book, or your talking book?" and then remind the child that he/she can't really do either one if he/she is squirming or making noise.

So my take on "overwrought mother of demon toddler from hell" is that she's failed, totally and utterly, to be smarter than her kid. And while the rest of the passengers didn't deserve to have that thrust upon them, she deserves everything she's brought that little one up to give her. I have no sympathy at all for her.
 
ebuddy Sep 18, 2011 07:29 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep (Post 4112252)
Actually I think spanking is potentially a more useful disciplinary tool if you never threaten to do it. I think it was the shock of a parent actually resorting to it that got the message home that I'd dome something really wrong more than the actual spanking itself.
^ Bingo!
 
subego Sep 18, 2011 07:42 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by ghporter (Post 4112254)
Children are INCAPABLE of reason as adults understand that term until they are at least 12 or 13. Their brains aren't developed enough for abstract thought, and even at that age they make extremely poor decisions based on their extremely sketchy use of abstraction.
I guess it's obvious, but I would presume this is why spanking is so seductive. "Do this action, receive pain" is understandable on an abstract level even by a four-year-old.
 
Mrjinglesusa Sep 18, 2011 07:59 PM
Yes.

And I went to private school where corporal punishment was used. The principal had a big red paddle that was used for grievous offenses.

I never got spanked at school and only got spanked a few times by my parents. The times I remember: 1) calling my friend the N word (didn't even know what it meant but I'd heard it used before); 2) almost burning down the garage.
 
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