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-   -   Is Windows 8 A Bloated Monstrosity? (http://forums.macnn.com/89/macnn-lounge/490768/is-windows-8-a-bloated-monstrosity/)

 
subego Aug 1, 2012 12:57 AM
Is Windows 8 A Bloated Monstrosity?
Cause Windows 7 sure is.

30GB base install? What a fat ****.
 
Waragainstsleep Aug 1, 2012 01:55 AM
30GB? Last one I installed was nowhere near that. It fits on a DVD you know.
 
subego Aug 1, 2012 02:01 AM
Well, mine clearly asploded to mammoth size.
 
subego Aug 1, 2012 02:07 AM
I just reinstalled, just to make sure I didn't screw up along the way. No Boot Camp drivers yet. 21.1GB.
 
subego Aug 1, 2012 02:46 AM
I remember getting this in Vista.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v8.../photo-131.jpg

Best. Dialog. Evar.
 
Waragainstsleep Aug 1, 2012 04:08 AM
CS2 or 3 had a similar one "The Adobe updater needs an update in order to update your Adobe software."
 
ajprice Aug 1, 2012 06:04 AM
Xzibit would be proud.

http://i.qkme.me/3pmk98.jpg
 
nonhuman Aug 1, 2012 11:58 AM
Well... With Windows 8 Microsoft did put Windows in your Windows so you can use Windows while you use Windows...
 
mattyb Aug 1, 2012 12:08 PM
Probably not the best place for this, but I wonder if it Win8 isn't going to make consoles even more popular for gaming.
 
besson3c Aug 1, 2012 02:58 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by subego (Post 4181159)

Well, mine clearly asploded to mammoth size.
Are you seeing that as your VM image's size, or inside Windows?
 
besson3c Aug 1, 2012 03:00 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by mattyb (Post 4181272)
Probably not the best place for this, but I wonder if it Win8 isn't going to make consoles even more popular for gaming.
Or, if that Android based console Kickstarter project really works out, maybe PC Android type setups?
 
And.reg Aug 1, 2012 03:06 PM
Greetings. I am unable to delete my posts, and apparently you moderators are on some kind of a strike.

Therefore, I have removed the content of the original post by hand.

I am asking for this post to be deleted, since I don't seem to have the option to do that myself.
 
subego Aug 1, 2012 03:07 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by besson3c (Post 4181302)
Are you seeing that as your VM image's size, or inside Windows?
Neither. To make sure my eyes were not deceiving me, I booted back into OSX.
 
Spheric Harlot Aug 1, 2012 03:14 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by subego (Post 4181166)
I remember getting this in Vista.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v8.../photo-131.jpg

Best. Dialog. Evar.
Apple had a very similar update to the software update app at some point, as well.

I've seen this for office, as well.
 
Waragainstsleep Aug 1, 2012 04:00 PM
I think Win8 is going to tank. M$ can't win with Windows. If they make it too different, everyone will hate it, if they make it too similar, no-one will buy it. When it tanks, they will relent and release Office for iPad. Windows on the desktop will die and M$ will have to stick to Office, Win Server and Xbox. Big business is moving back to terminal setups nowadays anyway so the client OS is just getting less and less useful while more and more people are comfortable with a choice of Win, Mac OS, iOS or Android so that barrier of only knowing how to use Windows is crumbling fast.

Maybe thats Apple's server/enterprise computing strategy: Let Ballmer run M$ into the ground for a few more years, then buy them cheap for Exchange.
 
mattyb Aug 2, 2012 12:32 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep (Post 4181315)
I think Win8 is going to tank. M$ can't win with Windows. If they make it too different, everyone will hate it, if they make it too similar, no-one will buy it. When it tanks, they will relent and release Office for iPad. Windows on the desktop will die and M$ will have to stick to Office, Win Server and Xbox. Big business is moving back to terminal setups nowadays anyway so the client OS is just getting less and less useful while more and more people are comfortable with a choice of Win, Mac OS, iOS or Android so that barrier of only knowing how to use Windows is crumbling fast.
Maybe thats Apple's server/enterprise computing strategy: Let Ballmer run M$ into the ground for a few more years, then buy them cheap for Exchange.
Budgets are tight, I can see lots of large companies sticking with large scale PC deployments. Also too many fat-client apps out there, in production all over the world. Hope I'm wrong though.
 
Waragainstsleep Aug 2, 2012 01:45 PM
M$ has lost the plot when it comes to operating systems. Apple has been right on the button throughout with OS X. Your core users are people who need to surf websites and type emails, letters and spreadsheets at home, at school or in the office. There are no features in Windows 7 that justify the cost of upgrading from XP if this is all you need your PC to do. Thats assuming your old XP box will run 7 without upgrades. If XP was still supported (I think I'm right in saying you can still run up to date browsers like Firefox and Chrome on it), there would be no compelling reason to upgrade to Win 7 at any price for a huge number of businesses and institutions worldwide. As it is, it costs you £60 at home, or over £100 for a pro version which you'd probably need at work so the IT dept. can use RDC to help you out.
And if you don't upgrade hardware, chances are you end up paying to slow your PC down.

The same goes for Office. What does 2010 do that 2003 doesn't for 90% of everyday users? Not a damn thing. They just move the buttons and menus about, change the names of things so it seems different and different just pisses people off because they can't work out how to do the stuff they've been doing for years.

Operating systems got to a point where the extra features are just icing and eye candy a few years ago. Leopard is still a perfectly serviceable OS for simple computing tasks, Snow Leopard certainly is. Lion changed some fundamental things and people are still bitching a year later. Difference is Apple dropped the price from £120 to £80 to £21. Apple saw that a kind of limit or critical mass had been reached and M$ still hasn't seen it.

If they want it to be a success, then instead of Win 8 Home and Win 8 Pro, they should ditch the numbers and do Windows Classic which is an up to date version of Windows that looks and feels like XP and only costs £35 for a single license and £150 for 10 and Windows 2012 which is the same up to date version with whatever experimental, innovative UI enhancements they can come up with or copy from Apple. That one looks flashy and modern and costs £65 or something like that.

One for the users who are stuck in their ways, one for the bleeding edge, all the same under the hood.
 
besson3c Aug 2, 2012 03:03 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by subego (Post 4181308)

Neither. To make sure my eyes were not deceiving me, I booted back into OSX.
And looked at what? Just not sure where you are getting the Windows disk space usage from.
 
subego Aug 2, 2012 05:24 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by besson3c (Post 4181488)
And looked at what? Just not sure where you are getting the Windows disk space usage from.
From the same place you always get disk space usage in OSX.

"Get Info" or the Finder status bar, I can't recall which.
 
apostacy Aug 2, 2012 05:29 PM
This post is right on the money. I've noticed the same things but never was able to put it into words.

And "paying to slow your PC down" is pretty funny--it's so true for alot of people.

Quote, Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep (Post 4181480)
M$ has lost the plot when it comes to operating systems. Apple has been right on the button throughout with OS X. Your core users are people who need to surf websites and type emails, letters and spreadsheets at home, at school or in the office. There are no features in Windows 7 that justify the cost of upgrading from XP if this is all you need your PC to do. Thats assuming your old XP box will run 7 without upgrades. If XP was still supported (I think I'm right in saying you can still run up to date browsers like Firefox and Chrome on it), there would be no compelling reason to upgrade to Win 7 at any price for a huge number of businesses and institutions worldwide. As it is, it costs you £60 at home, or over £100 for a pro version which you'd probably need at work so the IT dept. can use RDC to help you out.
And if you don't upgrade hardware, chances are you end up paying to slow your PC down.
The same goes for Office. What does 2010 do that 2003 doesn't for 90% of everyday users? Not a damn thing. They just move the buttons and menus about, change the names of things so it seems different and different just pisses people off because they can't work out how to do the stuff they've been doing for years.
Operating systems got to a point where the extra features are just icing and eye candy a few years ago. Leopard is still a perfectly serviceable OS for simple computing tasks, Snow Leopard certainly is. Lion changed some fundamental things and people are still bitching a year later. Difference is Apple dropped the price from £120 to £80 to £21. Apple saw that a kind of limit or critical mass had been reached and M$ still hasn't seen it.
If they want it to be a success, then instead of Win 8 Home and Win 8 Pro, they should ditch the numbers and do Windows Classic which is an up to date version of Windows that looks and feels like XP and only costs £35 for a single license and £150 for 10 and Windows 2012 which is the same up to date version with whatever experimental, innovative UI enhancements they can come up with or copy from Apple. That one looks flashy and modern and costs £65 or something like that.
One for the users who are stuck in their ways, one for the bleeding edge, all the same under the hood.
 
besson3c Aug 3, 2012 01:13 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by subego (Post 4181498)

From the same place you always get disk space usage in OSX.
"Get Info" or the Finder status bar, I can't recall which.
Ahh, I see, on your Boot Camp volume.

Just wondering how it is possible for the volume to balloon like this from the DVD media... Maybe it is some sort of cache, Windows Update storage, something like that created post install?

Or maybe you have a Windows virus :)
 
besson3c Aug 3, 2012 01:17 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by apostacy (Post 4181500)
This post is right on the money. I've noticed the same things but never was able to put it into words.
And "paying to slow your PC down" is pretty funny--it's so true for alot of people.
The paying to slow your PC down could also apply to anti-virus software. It's good that Apple already does some basic scanning of downloaded files (I believe). I don't really understand why this isn't built into Windows enough to make a third party product pointless. I know there is Windows Defender, but why is it that it hasn't replaced third party anti-virus software?
 
Waragainstsleep Aug 3, 2012 08:55 AM
Might be an anti-trust issue? They have MSSE which is adequate for most people, but you have to go get it.
 
mattyb Aug 5, 2012 01:31 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep (Post 4181480)
M$ has lost the plot when it comes to operating systems.
You don't have to convince me War. You have to convince companies like the one I work at, over 100,000 employees around the world.
 
Waragainstsleep Aug 5, 2012 01:43 PM
They'll work it out sooner or later. Just keep dropping hints.
 
Foe Hammer Aug 6, 2012 09:10 AM
Is Windows 8 A Bloated Monstrosity?

- No. You're thinking of Ballmer. :)
 
polendo Aug 9, 2012 08:21 AM
I´m sticking with Win 7 Pro unless I see some cool stuff worth switching. The tiles system is great on Win Phone.. not so sure it would be the same on a PC, but will have to wait and see.

OEM Win 7 Pro - 32 Bits on a Sony VAIO is weighing in at 16.9 GB

I haven't installed yet any Windows on my Macs.
 
finboy Aug 14, 2012 10:18 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep (Post 4181480)
The same goes for Office. What does 2010 do that 2003 doesn't for 90% of everyday users? Not a damn thing. They just move the buttons and menus about, change the names of things so it seems different and different just pisses people off because they can't work out how to do the stuff they've been doing for years.
Without Office '07 and '10 we'd still be using the universal standard *.doc and *.xls instead of the newer formats. So it's not a benign mutation - Office 2010 is just wasteful. And it breaks Adobe add-ins.
 
P Aug 14, 2012 10:34 AM
Office '07 finally fixed the OLE pasting bug, where compressed images were saved uncompressed if pasted. That alone is reason to update.

As for Windows 8...it's really quite simple. They see that tablets are going to be a Big Deal, and they need to be in that market. The only possible advantage they have is the existing body of Windows software. Somehow they have to make use of that, and Windows 8 is possibly the only way that can ever get away with that. They probably believe that if they made a tablet OS without Windows compatibility, they'd fail anyway, so this is the only way they could possibly win.
 
Spheric Harlot Aug 14, 2012 12:20 PM
^ where "win" means "survive on the tablet market", not "Apple and Android have to lose".
 
Waragainstsleep Aug 15, 2012 12:42 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by finboy (Post 4183824)
Without Office '07 and '10 we'd still be using the universal standard *.doc and *.xls instead of the newer formats. So it's not a benign mutation - Office 2010 is just wasteful. And it breaks Adobe add-ins.
Well this is true but its not like Microsoft couldn't have made the format change years ago if they'd felt inclined to do so. Since "everyone" has Office in the business world, that change actually caused more bother than help initially. There are still a lot of people running Office 2003 and they can't read the X format docs. Thats nearly 5 years where the biggest improvement was actually a drawback for the majority. Rather the majority of those who noticed it.
 
Athens Aug 20, 2012 10:22 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by besson3c (Post 4181550)
Ahh, I see, on your Boot Camp volume.

Just wondering how it is possible for the volume to balloon like this from the DVD media... Maybe it is some sort of cache, Windows Update storage, something like that created post install? 

Or maybe you have a Windows virus :)
Its the winsxs folder in the Windows folder. Was microsofts solution to fix DLL hell from Windows 95 and 98.

More info about it here

http://www.winvistaclub.com/f16.html

My Windows 7 directory is 23GB on one computer and 17GB on another, most of it from the winsxs folder.
 
besson3c Aug 20, 2012 11:05 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by Athens (Post 4184988)

Its the winsxs folder in the Windows folder. Was microsofts solution to fix DLL hell from Windows 95 and 98.
More info about it here
http://www.winvistaclub.com/f16.html
My Windows 7 directory is 23GB on one computer and 17GB on another, most of it from the winsxs folder.
Interesting, thanks Athens!

What Windows probably really needs either than a better strategy for retiring outdated DLLs is deduplication support in their file system!
 
Athens Aug 20, 2012 11:26 AM
Has to do with Backwards comparability. Apples approach has always been different. Apple moves forward and its up to the developers to update the software to work with future versions of OS X. If they don't the product is stuck on a older version of OS X.

Microsoft has tried to prevent this, take the work away from the developer my making sure programs work after upgrades with little or no update. End result, a lot of old Windows software with no real support still being used, while in the Appleverse Only current and still supported software continues to work with changes.

Its not the best comparison in the world because most of everything a OS X application requires is with the Application itself, its why you can drag and drop a .app between machines for most things and go where as on Windows stuff is installed all over the place like DLLs and registry entries. This is what causes DLL hell originally with newer programs over writing older DLL's breaking other applications. But it is a close enough example that is still valid to use.

Apples method is a bloody headache when a new OS comes out because a lot of the time you are waiting for software companies to update the software to work with OS X. But in the long run better because not only is software kept up to date, they usually are in a better position to add new ability to the software to take advantages of the latest and greatest built in functions of the OS.

Windows on the other hand is easier when dealing with older software that isn't being updated and wont be. But you end up with a lot of wasted space like the WINSXS folder.
 
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