MacNN Forums (http://forums.macnn.com/)
-   MacNN Lounge (http://forums.macnn.com/macnn-lounge/)
-   -   Melissa McCarthy criticism - justified? (http://forums.macnn.com/89/macnn-lounge/498221/melissa-mccarthy-criticism-justified/)

 
shifuimam Feb 19, 2013 12:56 PM
Melissa McCarthy criticism - justified?
So apparently Melissa McCarthy is huge (lol) in Hollywood right now. I've seen her since her lead role in Gilmore Girls, and I gotta say - she has gotten huge in the last eight years or so. She ballooned up when she was on Gilmore Girls while one of the other fat actresses, Liz Torres, lost a substantial amount of weight during the show's run. It was quite the contrast.

Of course it's un-PC to point out when someone is a blimp, so a lot of people in Hollywood are coming to her defense after a review was published criticizing her enormous weight.

Calling a fat actress "tractor-sized" in a review - justified? Terrible? Funny? Vicious? Discuss.
 
The Final Dakar Feb 19, 2013 01:18 PM
It lacks tact and seems immaterial as to whether the jokes are funny or not.
 
shifuimam Feb 19, 2013 01:23 PM
What about the idea that we should explicitly support obese actors for the sake of being PC and fat-accepting? One could argue that promoting an acceptance of obesity is unhealthy, especially for kids.
 
The Final Dakar Feb 19, 2013 01:24 PM
Define 'support'.
 
shifuimam Feb 19, 2013 01:27 PM
Come to the defense of, indicate that it's okay that they're fat and we shouldn't talk about it or call attention to it.

That said, I won't deny that the "tractor-sized" comment was mean.
 
The Final Dakar Feb 19, 2013 01:36 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by shifuimam (Post 4218191)
Come to the defense of, indicate that it's okay that they're fat and we shouldn't talk about it or call attention to it.
I think these are mutually exclusive.
 
andi*pandi Feb 19, 2013 01:58 PM
It's her business, and while I don't see anyone holding her up as a fitness idol, that doesn't mean she can't be fat. I don't recall how skinny she was before Gilmore (she did have a baby I think?) but I do recall thinking it was refreshing how a pudgy person could be a major supporting character on TV, and not make her "fatness" a character feature. She just was, without being an over the top, "fat and sassy sidekick" stereotype.

Which made me really disappointed when I saw Mike and Molly. What a horrible concept.

I've read comparisons to John Candy and Chris Farley. I dare say those guys would just laugh off a "tractor-sized" joke at their expense. Heck, their fatness was part of their comedy. Did anyone insult them for being fat before they died? Would it have been appropriate to do so?

I think that review was uncool.
 
ort888 Feb 19, 2013 03:15 PM
Your initial post seems pretty harsh, like you're attempting (very poorly) to hold back your utter contempt of fat people.

I think it's pretty sad that as soon as any woman who isn't extremely attractive achieves any sort of success, people start in on their looks. This almost never happens to men. It's a double standard. It reinforces the concept that a woman's job, first and foremost, is to be attractive for men.

Women are routinely mocked and attacked for having the audacity to be in the public spotlight and not be extremely good looking.

She's a comedian. Her job is to be funny, not to be attractive.
 
mattyb Feb 19, 2013 04:19 PM
I'm with ort.
 
subego Feb 19, 2013 04:44 PM
I didn't know who this person was, so I had to do a GIS. She's at a weight which is unhealthy, and I'm going to go out on a limb and say she's probably not happy about that.

Of course, the first thing which comes to mind when I see an unhappy person at an unhealthy weight is to see what kinds of slurs I can come up with.
 
Shaddim Feb 19, 2013 08:04 PM
Being a little large (portly, plump, padded) is one thing, morbidly obese is quite another. It isn't healthy, of course, and it shouldn't be praised. People will go out of their way to abuse a cigarette smoker (even when the antagonist can't smell the smoke), but we're supposed to be supporting and accepting of huge people? Double standard, that.

No, I won't insult or degrade people who are obese, but I'm not going to pat them on the back and encourage them, either.
 
besson3c Feb 19, 2013 11:21 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by Shaddim (Post 4218273)
Being a little large (portly, plump, padded) is one thing, morbidly obese is quite another. It isn't healthy, of course, and it shouldn't be praised. People will go out of their way to abuse a cigarette smoker (even when the antagonist can't smell the smoke), but we're supposed to be supporting and accepting of huge people? Double standard, that.

No, I won't insult or degrade people who are obese, but I'm not going to pat them on the back and encourage them, either.

I think the main point is what Ort said so well... Did people get all over Chris Farley for being fat?
 
subego Feb 20, 2013 03:13 AM
I honestly think the issue is not being a dick is beyond most people's capabilities.

"Discourage" apparently translates to "call them a farm implement".
 
subego Feb 20, 2013 03:23 AM
I also want to add that 80% of available food is sugar. This is because it's tasty, it can be made into all kinds of shapes, and it's cheap.

But whatever you do, don't encourage fatso.
 
Spheric Harlot Feb 20, 2013 04:18 AM
I prefer the term "blimp". It's so much less offensive.
 
The Final Dakar Feb 20, 2013 10:58 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by Shaddim (Post 4218273)
People will go out of their way to abuse a cigarette smoker (even when the antagonist can't smell the smoke), but we're supposed to be supporting and accepting of huge people? Double standard, that.
This is where I get confused. There's no middle-ground between being abusive and being supportive? What happened to just not giving a shit?
 
andi*pandi Feb 20, 2013 11:23 AM
Fat people don't give you cancer.
 
Chongo Feb 20, 2013 11:34 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by besson3c (Post 4218283)
I think the main point is what Ort said so well... Did people get all over Chris Farley for being fat?
You can add Jackie Gleason, John Candy, John Goodman....
 
The Final Dakar Feb 20, 2013 11:49 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by Chongo (Post 4218363)
John Goodman....
Best example since he's the only one alive and still active. Man has become quite a tank compared to 20 years ago, as well. I suppose the guy from Paul Blart also counts.
 
ort888 Feb 20, 2013 12:07 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by Shaddim (Post 4218273)
Being a little large (portly, plump, padded) is one thing, morbidly obese is quite another. It isn't healthy, of course, and it shouldn't be praised. People will go out of their way to abuse a cigarette smoker (even when the antagonist can't smell the smoke), but we're supposed to be supporting and accepting of huge people? Double standard, that.

No, I won't insult or degrade people who are obese, but I'm not going to pat them on the back and encourage them, either.
Smoking is less of a sensitive issue. I doubt many people suffer a through a lifetime of humiliation and self esteem issues because of smoking.

Being morbidly obese is almost always the result of a lifetime of poor decisions... but every person is different.

If you took 1,000 people and fed them an identical diet and had them do an identical amount of exercise, you would see a huge range of body types. Some people have to work a lot harder to be a healthy weight than others do.

It's very easy to bring up the issue of whether or not it's a good idea to glamorize an actress for being unhealthy without calling her a hippo, or a blimp or a tractor. It's just a crappy thing to do.

Anyway, in her case, her weight is certainly part of her schtick. If she was a thin woman, she would probably be working in an office somewhere.
 
el chupacabra Feb 20, 2013 12:11 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by shifuimam (Post 4218176)
Of course it's un-PC to point out when someone is a blimp, so a lot of people in Hollywood are coming to her defense after a review was published criticizing her enormous weight.

Calling a fat actress "tractor-sized" in a review - justified? Terrible? Funny? Vicious? Discuss.
It's not about being PC. Grown adults shouldn't bully her like children. There's no need for anyone other than her family and friends (if she asks), to bring any attention to her weight in any way.
Everyone can see she's fat without it being pointed out. Not making fun of her != supporting obesity. Obesity isn't, and never will be considered acceptable; it's hard coded into our genetics.
 
The Final Dakar Feb 20, 2013 12:13 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by el chupacabra (Post 4218390)
Obesity isn't, and never will be considered acceptable.
It also bears pointing out that for a fat chick to make it in Hollywood is rare. It's extreme handicap. Implying that it's somehow being supported is to ignore that it's an exception, not the rule.
 
subego Feb 20, 2013 12:46 PM
I read that as bears pointing it out. Three or four times.

As in overweight, hypocritical bears.
 
Waragainstsleep Feb 20, 2013 02:04 PM
Actually I don't think non-acceptance of fat people is hardcoded at all. Go to any art gallery with a good selection of older portraits and you'll see that women used to be much more rounded than the size zero "ideal" that is pushed by the movie/TV/fashion/media industry these days. There is a subset of Nigerian culture where being fatter is still equated to wealth and therefore remains desirable. I forget the name.

Its a tricky one though. People shouldn't be held back from doing things because of their weight but if you do anything in the public eye you should expect to be held up as a role model and therefore you do have more responsibility to set a good example than Joe Public. Thats part of why celebrity pays better.
I'd like to think that if I had the sort of money she must be making, I'd hire a live in personal trainer or two to drag me into my home gym every day for as long as I needed it.
 
subego Feb 20, 2013 02:07 PM
No one is holding men to that standard.
 
Shaddim Feb 20, 2013 04:30 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by The Final Dakar (Post 4218349)
This is where I get confused. There's no middle-ground between being abusive and being supportive? What happened to just not giving a shit?
If you read my post carefully, that's what I propose.

Quote
No, I won't insult or degrade people who are obese, but I'm not going to pat them on the back and encourage them, either.
I personally find them repellent but won't say anything about it to them (unless they ask for my opinion, which can be a bad idea in any situation).
 
Shaddim Feb 20, 2013 04:51 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by andi*pandi (Post 4218360)
Fat people don't give you cancer.
That's why I said they gripe even when they aren't near the smoker. Back when I was a lover of cigs, still love them but rarely indulge anymore, I was smoking at a hospital (behind the stripe that marks the smoke-free boundary, and a lady walked from all the way across the street, had to be some 60', just to tell me that my smoke was "wafting" over the line and into the non-smoking area, due to the breeze. The "wafting" was probably 7-8' over the line, but the boundary was 80' from the hospital entrance. Instead of being my usual, charming self, I said nothing and backed up ~10' more feet. She pursued me, telling me that wasn't good enough, but from where I was standing it was fine. I told her, "I compromised with you, go away". At that point she tried to knock the cigarette out of my hand and started swearing at me. To save myself grief (my grandfather was dying and I was a wreck), I put it out voluntarily. She grinned in a self-satisfied way, turned right around, and walked back across the street and continued to where she was going. Then I went back over to where I started, lit another fag, and smoked it in peace. As she was turning a corner, some 200' away, she glanced back and saw me, paused (I then gave her the finger), but then kept on walking.

I've never treated anyone in such a manner as she did, but for some reason she felt justified in abusing me, despite the fact I was obeying the law and attempting to be as conscientious as possible.
 
ort888 Feb 20, 2013 05:05 PM
That's one incident. I bet if you were morbidly obese, you would get 100 stories to every one you got for being a smoker.

The big difference is that with smoking, people are being scornful of something you are doing, not you, or your appearance.
 
Shaddim Feb 20, 2013 05:12 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by The Final Dakar (Post 4218392)
It also bears pointing out that for a fat chick to make it in Hollywood is rare. It's extreme handicap. Implying that it's somehow being supported is to ignore that it's an exception, not the rule.
One of my favorite actresses, Kathleen Bates, is obese. For some reason that I can't understand, her weight actually suits her. Though I feel that's a rare phenomenon.

I'm not unsympathetic, at all, I simply don't believe that it's a proper way to live. Though, I won't tell people such things, unless they solicit my opinion. One interesting thing is how Kate Upton is getting blasted for her weight, and I believe she simply looks healthy. :confused:
 
Shaddim Feb 20, 2013 05:15 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by ort888 (Post 4218483)
That's one incident. I bet if you were morbidly obese, you would get 100 stories to every one you got for being a smoker.

The big difference is that with smoking, people are being scornful of something you are doing, not you, or your appearance.
I had a lot, as in a sh**-ton, of folks gripe about the smell of smoke on me and my clothes. So, yeah, being told you're stinky isn't much different than being told you're tubby. FYI, I had many incidents not just the one, that was simply the most aggressive.
 
shifuimam Feb 20, 2013 06:25 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep (Post 4218426)
Actually I don't think non-acceptance of fat people is hardcoded at all. Go to any art gallery with a good selection of older portraits and you'll see that women used to be much more rounded than the size zero "ideal" that is pushed by the movie/TV/fashion/media industry these days. There is a subset of Nigerian culture where being fatter is still equated to wealth and therefore remains desirable. I forget the name.

Its a tricky one though. People shouldn't be held back from doing things because of their weight but if you do anything in the public eye you should expect to be held up as a role model and therefore you do have more responsibility to set a good example than Joe Public. Thats part of why celebrity pays better.
I'd like to think that if I had the sort of money she must be making, I'd hire a live in personal trainer or two to drag me into my home gym every day for as long as I needed it.
There's a difference between fat and obese, though. When you're big enough that you can't walk or participate in normal day-to-day activities, that's quite a bit different than the era of large hips and breasts being sexier than skinny thighs.

I think there may be a biological factor to a dislike or distaste of morbid obesity.
 
andi*pandi Feb 20, 2013 06:51 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by Shaddim (Post 4218480)
To save myself grief (my grandfather was dying and I was a wreck), I put it out voluntarily.
Sorry for your loss. Maybe her family member was suffering from asthma or lung cancer. Yes you were obeying the rules and she went out of her way to rag on you, but I still don't see the comparison to fat. You both were taking out problems on each other.

I work for a medical group, which has big placards everywhere "No smoking on the grounds" yet people will stand right next to the signs and smoke and leave butts. :brick:

There isn't consistent understanding of what morbidly obese is, either. It's not so fat you can't walk. It's based on BMI, and you can be pretty active and still be technically morbidly obese. McCarthy looks like she can get about pretty well. Her Mike costar however...
 
Shaddim Feb 20, 2013 07:27 PM
I wasn't smoking on the grounds, I was smoking in the designated smoking area (she was a staffer of some type, appeared to be wearing scrubs). People can stop smoking, if they want to. They can also lose weight, if they want to. Both issues are lifestyle choices, and both are severe health concerns.
 
subego Feb 21, 2013 04:10 AM
Ironically, I started smoking and dropped 100 pounds.

Literally. I was 270 as an 18-year-old. I was 170 by 22. Right now at 40, I'm a blubbery 185.


Edit: I should mention that the smoking is catching up with me. My lungs are unsurprisingly pretty trashed.
 
Waragainstsleep Feb 21, 2013 06:34 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by shifuimam (Post 4218498)
There's a difference between fat and obese, though. When you're big enough that you can't walk or participate in normal day-to-day activities, that's quite a bit different than the era of large hips and breasts being sexier than skinny thighs.

I think there may be a biological factor to a dislike or distaste of morbid obesity.
I still can't find the name of that nigerian culture but apparently the same was true in Mauretania at least until a few years ago. Both cultures actually had 'fattening rooms' where they sent women to get bigger before they got married.

As Andi mentioned, the line between overweight and obese is defined medically by the BMI but it doesn't take build or muscle into account at all.
 
ort888 Feb 21, 2013 12:01 PM
I don't think smoking and obesity are similar at all.

I've been a heavy smoker and while I am overweight, I'm not obese or anywhere close... but I know many obese people and the amount of scorn and ridicule you receive over it transcends smoking.

I don't think you'll find many people who cry themselves to sleep every night because people were teasing them about being a smoker...
 
Laminar Feb 21, 2013 12:44 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot (Post 4218303)
I prefer the term "blimp". It's so much less offensive.
Or "rigid airship."

Where's Face Ache?
 
andi*pandi Feb 21, 2013 02:38 PM
Zeppelin sounds downright classy.
 
besson3c Feb 21, 2013 02:41 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by andi*pandi (Post 4218360)
Fat people don't give you cancer.

Although they do consume more health care services and perhaps contribute to those costs being what they are.
 
Spheric Harlot Feb 21, 2013 02:53 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by besson3c (Post 4218673)
Although they do consume more health care services and perhaps contribute to those costs being what they are.
Yeah, but that's only an issue in socialist countries with health care insurance.

I read a while ago that smokers are actually *cheaper* in terms of health care than non-smokers, because they die so much sooner, on average.
 
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:11 AM.

Copyright © 2005-2007 MacNN. All rights reserved.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.


Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2