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-   -   Is Punctuation Changing? (http://forums.macnn.com/89/macnn-lounge/506214/is-punctuation-changing/)

 
subego Nov 25, 2013 02:56 PM
Is Punctuation Changing?
Read an article which said the lack of periods in texting is making the period seem more aggressive.

I'm not posting it, because I think it misses the boat. IME, the period is starting to read differently due to the ascendancy of exclamation points.

Discuss!
 
The Final Dakar Nov 25, 2013 02:58 PM
haven't seen that. I consider apostrophes optional. If it weren't for autocorrect I'd use them infrequently.

Exclamation points should be banned from female use. Or maybe we make an exception where, if you feel you need five or more then we'll let you have one.
 
subego Nov 25, 2013 03:02 PM
I feel a texted sentence without an exclamation point lacks a certain "oomph". The weird thing isn't that the sentence needs the oomph, but the lack of it denotes ambivalence.
 
The Final Dakar Nov 25, 2013 03:08 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by subego (Post 4259034)
I feel a texted sentence without an exclamation point lacks a certain "oomph". The weird thing isn't that the sentence needs the oomph, but the lack of it denotes ambivalence.
The truth is we use all caps in place of it most of the time.
 
subego Nov 25, 2013 03:12 PM
All caps isn't yelling to you?
 
The Final Dakar Nov 25, 2013 03:14 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by subego (Post 4259040)
All caps isn't yelling to you?
How is seven exclamation points not yelling!!!!!!!!
 
subego Nov 25, 2013 03:21 PM
No caps.
 
The Final Dakar Nov 25, 2013 03:23 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by subego (Post 4259047)
No caps.
So what does seven exclamation points sound like to you?
 
subego Nov 25, 2013 03:38 PM
Excitement!!!
 
Demonhood Nov 25, 2013 03:42 PM
All the exclamation points only sound like yelling for the last word. ALL CAPS IS TOTALLY YELLING ALL THE TIME.
 
subego Nov 25, 2013 03:43 PM
What I like about separating exclamation points from volume is I feel it gives you more options.

You can mix and match caps with exclamation points to get various degrees of meaning.

Likewise if you reserve caps for yelling and use *asterisks* for emphasis.
 
subego Nov 25, 2013 03:46 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by Demonhood (Post 4259054)
All the exclamation points only sound like yelling for the last word. ALL CAPS IS TOTALLY YELLING ALL THE TIME.
A single exclamation point is supposed to pertain to the entire exclamation. Why would more of them change that?!?
 
The Final Dakar Nov 25, 2013 03:48 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by subego (Post 4259057)
A single exclamation point is supposed to pertain to the entire exclamation. Why would more of them change that?!?
That'd be like changing the pronunciation of a word because you kept adding letters to the endddddddddddd
 
subego Nov 25, 2013 03:52 PM
You lost me on that one...

Maybe I've fallen right into your "gotcha", but you don't pronounce "end" and "endddddddd" differently?
 
andi*pandi Nov 25, 2013 05:54 PM
^I do. It implies the word is drawn out.

Number of exclamation points indicates, to me, a gradual increase in enthusiasm. As demonhead says, the volume is not ON/off, but can gradually build to 11, at which points caps become both redundant and mandatory.

Time to head home!
My husband made dinner!!
It's my favorite!!!
And tonight I have some Doctor Who to watch!!!!
SQUEEEEE!!!!1!!
 
Laminar Nov 25, 2013 08:19 PM
 
ghporter Nov 25, 2013 08:35 PM
When I text, I (as far as I can tell) always use complete words and sentences, and I use fairly appropriate punctuation. As a tech writer I found that the easiest way to reduce the readability of a piece of text, no matter how short, was to mess up the punctuation. As the editor of other tech writers, I had to point out structural and spelling issues, among other things, and that forced me to watch my own structure and spelling - and punctuation. Now it's hard for me to use non-standard contractions, let alone something like typical text shortcuts because I want my writing to be at least probably understandable to someone who can read English.
 
turtle777 Nov 25, 2013 10:34 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by subego (Post 4259031)
Read an article which said the lack of periods in texting is making the period seem more aggressive.
!
F@ck. That.

-t
 
osiris Nov 26, 2013 08:58 AM
Altering basic grammar, regardless of the media employed, destroys the basic fabric of society and is morally wrong.
You corrupt heathens better repent.
 
mattyb Nov 26, 2013 09:05 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by osiris (Post 4259169)
Altering basic grammar, regardless of the media employed, destroys the basic fabric of society and is morally wrong.
You corrupt heathens better repent.
I've been a corrupt heathen for a while. What should I do?
 
osiris Nov 26, 2013 09:46 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by mattyb (Post 4259170)
I've been a corrupt heathen for a while. What should I do?
Drink heavily.
 
Shaddim Nov 26, 2013 10:49 AM
It's a trend I can't say I'm fond of. Do you believe it's somewhat linked to prevailing hostility and aggression online? Is it all part of the technological veil?
 
BadKosh Nov 26, 2013 10:58 AM
Its like kids not learning cursive writing. Its more of a dumbing down and a lack of discipline.
 
osiris Nov 26, 2013 11:02 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by Shaddim (Post 4259190)
It's a trend I can't say I'm fond of. Do you believe it's somewhat linked to prevailing hostility and aggression online? Is it all part of the technological veil?
I think it's a combination of laziness and conditioning.
It all started with LOL, LMAO, and IMO, but it has roots in early radio: SOS, SOL.

Perhaps the next evolutionary step is to omit punctuation: JHC SOS! will now be JHC SOS

I don't like it one bit - I spend a lifetime learning to speak pretty and write good.
 
The Final Dakar Nov 26, 2013 11:06 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by Shaddim (Post 4259190)
It's a trend I can't say I'm fond of. Do you believe it's somewhat linked to prevailing hostility and aggression online? Is it all part of the technological veil?
It's about efficiency and expediency. If you can communicate the same sentiment with one less keystroke, why not do so. (And on touchscreens, those keystrokes tend to require more work)
 
andi*pandi Nov 26, 2013 11:46 AM
When I had a phone where I had to press a button 4 times to get the desired character, brevity was more important and punctuation be damned.

Now that I have a smartphone, I tend to use the same grammar I would here. Or, whatever siri translates my words into as I usually bypass typing.

Abbreviations are ok if commonly understood. KWIM?
 
The Final Dakar Nov 26, 2013 11:54 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by BadKosh (Post 4259193)
Its like kids not learning cursive writing. Its more of a dumbing down and a lack of discipline.
If your endorsement of cursive writing is the discipline required to use it, its pretty clear why its fell out of disuse.

Quote, Originally Posted by andi*pandi (Post 4259207)
Abbreviations are ok if commonly understood. KWIM?
Kwat?
 
mattyb Nov 26, 2013 12:24 PM
Swype? Or whatever its called in Android 4.3? No excuses for shortening words anymore.
 
The Final Dakar Nov 26, 2013 12:50 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by mattyb (Post 4259216)
Swype? Or whatever its called in Android 4.3? No excuses for shortening words anymore.
He said on an Apple forum
 
subego Nov 26, 2013 01:48 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by The Final Dakar (Post 4259209)
Kwat?
Reportd
 
mattyb Nov 26, 2013 02:24 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by The Final Dakar (Post 4259220)
He said on an Apple forum
Three people who replied to this thread have Andoid phones that I know of. Isn't Swype, or the same sort of functionality, available for the iPhone?
 
subego Nov 26, 2013 02:36 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by mattyb (Post 4259232)
Isn't Swype, or the same sort of functionality, available for the iPhone?
:lol:
 
subego Nov 26, 2013 03:53 PM
Not only do I use standard texting contractions with my ex, I liberally slather with phonetic spellings and 4chanisms.

I'll show you passive aggressive!!!
 
Phileas Nov 27, 2013 06:33 AM
I tend to dictate texts, so they'll come with a full set of proper punctuation. Because, why not.

We also have a client who has requested that our team should never use exclamation marks unless there's a real need for one. This has caused some of our younger staff problems to the point that I have taped red dots over the exclamation mark key on their keyboards. Not kidding.

No idea why Apple is resisting Swype or a similar text input mechanism. It is the best, fastest and easiest way to use a keyboard on a phone.
 
Spheric Harlot Nov 27, 2013 06:46 AM
From what I've read, swype is no faster than the iPhone keyboard.

It may feel faster. Similar to the studies where command-line junkies claimed they were way faster than using a mouse, but actually took longer to accomplish similar tasks.
And of course, for one-handed use, it's (reportedly) a lot nicer. But how to tell whether a user is using it one-handed?

I use exclamation marks for emphasis. If I wouldn't "exclaim" or be most emphatic in real life, I wouldn't use an exclamation mark in text.

I suppose the inflationary use correlates with ROFL and LOL, etc, neither of which tend to denote action even remotely of the scale they claim.
 
Spheric Harlot Nov 27, 2013 06:52 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by BadKosh (Post 4259193)
Its like kids not learning cursive writing. Its more of a dumbing down and a lack of discipline.
He writes, omitting an apostrophe. ;)
 
Phileas Nov 27, 2013 07:13 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot (Post 4259281)
From what I've read, swype is no faster than the iPhone keyboard.
Which leaves easiest and best ;)

The speed advantage might very well be negligible, but once you get used to Swype, typing on a phone feels clunky and difficult. I hate using small keyboards of any kind, so I try to dictate whenever possible. If it isn't, Swype is the next best thing for me.

I think there is an iPhone version out there, at least there was at some point, but you have to copy and paste the typed content into the application you wish to use. Which, of course, makes it useless.
 
osiris Nov 27, 2013 08:50 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot (Post 4259282)
He writes, omitting an apostrophe. ;)
Actually, two of them, if I'm not mistaken.
 
Spheric Harlot Nov 27, 2013 10:06 AM
Yep.
 
lpkmckenna Nov 27, 2013 12:21 PM
I find it almost impossible to buy the notion that the period's meaning is changing because of texting. I mean, doesn't every single smartphone now auto-insert periods with a double-space?

And I don't care what anyone says, I will use the Oxford comma until I die.
 
The Final Dakar Nov 27, 2013 12:33 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by lpkmckenna (Post 4259305)
a double-space?
wat
 
osiris Nov 27, 2013 12:55 PM
Doesn't double space make a period in iOS?
 
The Final Dakar Nov 27, 2013 01:12 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by osiris (Post 4259309)
Doesn't double space make a period in iOS?
I had no idea
 
Spheric Harlot Nov 27, 2013 01:12 PM
Yep. Double-space in iOS makes a full stop followed by a single space.
 
osiris Nov 27, 2013 01:17 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by The Final Dakar (Post 4259312)
I had no idea
reported
 
Phileas Nov 27, 2013 02:14 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by lpkmckenna (Post 4259305)
I will use the Oxford comma until I die.
Same here. So damn useful.
 
angelmb Nov 27, 2013 03:11 PM
 
ghporter Nov 27, 2013 06:11 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by BadKosh (Post 4259193)
Its like kids not learning cursive writing. Its more of a dumbing down and a lack of discipline.
This is a problem on a number of levels.

Transitioning from block/printing to cursive is both a rite of passage for elementary school students and a developmental stage for their brains and their entire physical coordination systems. While "educators" deprecate cursive as outmoded or unnecessary, they fail to see the underlying skills that are built by teaching cursive, and thus they miss the benefits that come from teaching it.

Without the transition to fluid letter formation, children miss out on the synthesis of connecting simple forms into complex, flowing forms, which impairs their abilities in a number of areas. Not only is fine motor coordination not as well developed in children who do not learn cursive, more abstract impacts, such as decreased gross motor coordination in transitional movements (diagonal and circular movements, for example), and there is evidence that certain types of logical reasoning are less well developed in such children as well.

On the surface, it looks like lazy schools, but when you look deeper, it is actually a product of dumbed-down educators.
 
subego Nov 27, 2013 06:16 PM
I did the absolute minimum I could get away with for cursive. To this day I write in ALL CAPS.
 
Laminar Nov 27, 2013 08:59 PM
What are you, an engineer?
 
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