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-   -   Santa Gets Fighter Escort (http://forums.macnn.com/89/macnn-lounge/506446/santa-gets-fighter-escort/)

 
subego Dec 3, 2013 08:45 PM
Santa Gets Fighter Escort
Pentagon tracking Santa with a new twist: armed jet fighters - Nation - The Boston Globe

Naughty Muslim kids get a 2,000 pound laser-guided bomb.
 
osiris Dec 4, 2013 08:42 AM
I wonder if we had jets doing this during the cold war.

I think it's silly, at best, and offensive at worst. Like Santa needs any protection, pff.
 
Spheric Harlot Dec 4, 2013 09:21 AM
As someone who grew up with a household ban on war-toys, this strikes me as…off.
 
andi*pandi Dec 4, 2013 10:34 AM
No no no. No.

The sleigh is faster than any jet anyhow.
 
BadKosh Dec 4, 2013 03:55 PM
Its an extended fuel tank NOT a bomb.
 
Shaddim Dec 4, 2013 04:09 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot (Post 4260035)
As someone who grew up with a household ban on war-toys, this strikes me as…off.
No tanks or cap guns? :eek:
 
subego Dec 4, 2013 04:30 PM
I'm fine with war-toys, but I do like to keep a separation between Christmas and slaughter.

Threw a shit-fit one year about nutcracker tree ornaments.
 
Spheric Harlot Dec 4, 2013 04:36 PM
Why the aversion against nutcrackers? Soldiers?


@Shaddim: Hell no.

My dad watched his city burn as a small kid, and saw his church's steeple collapse in flames after the Allied bombings.

Objects modeled after instruments of death are no toys.

I was the second child, so they weren't quite as strict with me, and when I did get a box of toy soldiers, they disapproved but let me keep them. And they balked initially at my getting into Star Wars, but by that time it was pretty clear that I was a peaceful kid and had no inclination towards weapons. Plus, that's a fantasy world.

When a neighbor's kid points a toy gun at me, I'll let him know in no uncertain terms that pointing guns at people is not a game, even if they're toy guns. Guns make me cranky.
 
subego Dec 4, 2013 04:39 PM
Soldiers.

Christmas trees are supposed to be all peace and shit.
 
subego Dec 4, 2013 04:44 PM
This was my toy gun from back in the day:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v8...2E1EB45088.jpg
 
Spheric Harlot Dec 4, 2013 06:12 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by subego (Post 4260113)
Soldiers.

Christmas trees are supposed to be all peace and shit.
If you're talking about these:

http://www.original-raeuchermann.de/...ussknacker.jpg

They're not soldiers, necessarily.

They go back to a story from the mid-19th century about King Nutcracker who leads a sick boy through a fantasy land. As the boy awakens from his dream, he finds the figures and elements from his dream as toys under the Christmas tree, including the king himself.

In the time since, these nutcrackers have been made in the Ore Mountains (Erzgebirge) to represent figures of authority, including police, forest wardens, kings, etc., partly with the aspect of having them do your bidding at least once a year, around Christmas.
 
subego Dec 4, 2013 07:21 PM
Maybe not a soldier, but part of the warrior class.
 
Spheric Harlot Dec 5, 2013 02:38 AM
The theme isn't "warrior class"; it's "figures of authority".

Forest wardens really, really don't qualify as "warriors".

And again: it's not the celebration of these figures; it's having these pompous asses crack your nuts for you.
 
subego Dec 5, 2013 04:37 AM
I was talking about the king.
 
Phileas Dec 5, 2013 06:48 AM
I read the article where a Pentagon spokesdrone was trying to justify the fighter escort. It was more than sad.

Santa can kick any jet's ass.
 
subego Dec 5, 2013 06:49 AM
He's got mistletoe.
 
ghporter Dec 5, 2013 07:01 AM
I am always astounded that any suggestion that our military is defensive in nature is always strongly discounted by so many people. Not that I think adding F-16s in the graphics with Santa is a good thing as such, but that so many people seem to be deeply offended that a multibillion dollar defense system (NORAD) which has been providing "Santa Tracking" for many decades, might find it useful to maybe demonstrate that Santa is being escorted by fighters on his flight over the Arctic.
 
Phileas Dec 5, 2013 07:11 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by ghporter (Post 4260202)
I am always astounded that any suggestion that our military is defensive in nature is always strongly discounted by so many people.
All that oil in the Middle East needs to be defended somehow....

Sorry, sorry. But that just made me laugh.
 
subego Dec 5, 2013 07:17 AM
F-18s.
 
BadKosh Dec 5, 2013 07:51 AM
Classic social engineering. We don't want little johnny to have anything but girls toys. Lets demonize GUNS too.
 
osiris Dec 5, 2013 08:46 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by ghporter (Post 4260202)
I am always astounded that any suggestion that our military is defensive in nature is always strongly discounted by so many people. Not that I think adding F-16s in the graphics with Santa is a good thing as such, but that so many people seem to be deeply offended that a multibillion dollar defense system (NORAD) which has been providing "Santa Tracking" for many decades, might find it useful to maybe demonstrate that Santa is being escorted by fighters on his flight over the Arctic.
It is a matter of opinion, but imo your example is a classic case of Apples and oranges. Tracking and then flying tools of death with the fat old man are two different things. Let's keep the death part out of Christmas. Thank you.
 
Phileas Dec 5, 2013 09:35 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by BadKosh (Post 4260209)
Classic social engineering. We don't want little johnny to have anything but girls toys. Lets demonize GUNS too.
There are girl's toys? What happens when a boy plays with them? Does his penis fall off?
 
The Final Dakar Dec 5, 2013 10:08 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by Phileas (Post 4260216)
There are girl's toys? What happens when a boy plays with them? Does his penis fall off?
He becomes a libtard
 
osiris Dec 5, 2013 10:15 AM
lol libtard. One of the best monikers perpetrated upon the American people since fluffernutter.
 
andi*pandi Dec 5, 2013 10:35 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by BadKosh (Post 4260209)
Classic social engineering. We don't want little johnny to have anything but girls toys. Lets demonize GUNS too.
Guns aren't the point. This isn't a boy/girl issue.

It was cute when NORAD said they were using their radar to be on the lookout for the abominable and jack frost. Still cute to emphasize their technology, promote their mission, while tracking Santa around the world. However, we don't need to be perpetuating the "War on Christmas" with fighter jets, or make little johnny or susy worry that the terrorists are after Santa. Santa is just fine.

Unless THIS guy is involved...

http://static.spoonful.com/sites/def...20-fs-3302.jpg
 
subego Dec 5, 2013 10:54 AM
When I was very young, I was way into Barbie. My favorite toy by far was the Barbie house.
 
Laminar Dec 5, 2013 10:57 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by andi*pandi (Post 4260227)
However, we don't need to be perpetuating the "War on Christmas"
Yeah, the liberals do enough of that with their "Happy Holidays" bullshit. :censor::mad:

Quote, Originally Posted by subego (Post 4260234)
When I was very young, I was way into Barbie. My favorite toy by far was the Barbie house.
My LEGO dudes were friends with my sister's Barbies.
 
subego Dec 5, 2013 11:00 AM
For those who don't know the backstory of NORAD tracking Santa, a "call Santa" phone line was misprinted in some paper, and the misprinted number happened to be NORAD. After the calls started flooding in, the colonel in charge said "it's our job to provide telemetry data, let's start providing it".

The rest, as they say, is history, which we all know is written by the person with the biggest gun.
 
subego Dec 5, 2013 11:01 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by Laminar (Post 4260236)
My LEGO dudes were friends with my sister's Barbies.
I imagine they felt pressure to overcompensate.
 
osiris Dec 5, 2013 11:03 AM
I did Barbie in her 'Vette with Ken watching.
 
Laminar Dec 5, 2013 11:51 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by subego (Post 4260238)
I imagine they felt pressure to overcompensate.
Either way they loved skirt day.
 
Shaddim Dec 5, 2013 05:36 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by subego (Post 4260237)
For those who don't know the backstory of NORAD tracking Santa, a "call Santa" phone line was misprinted in some paper, and the misprinted number happened to be NORAD. After the calls started flooding in, the colonel in charge said "it's our job to provide telemetry data, let's start providing it".

The rest, as they say, is history, which we all know is written by the person with the biggest gun.
That's what happens when mega-geeks get bored, and all they have to do is babysit nukes all day. :D
 
ghporter Dec 5, 2013 08:33 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by osiris (Post 4260213)
It is a matter of opinion, but imo your example is a classic case of Apples and oranges. Tracking and then flying tools of death with the fat old man are two different things. Let's keep the death part out of Christmas. Thank you.
Am I really using apples and oranges? All I'm saying is that adding airplane graphics to the computer generated pictures of Santa's sleigh isn't fundamentally offensive, and that people getting upset because a military organization includes pictures of some of their equipment with Santa are being either truly ignorant or willfully disingenuous.
Quote, Originally Posted by Phileas (Post 4260203)
All that oil in the Middle East needs to be defended somehow....

Sorry, sorry. But that just made me laugh.
NORAD is all about protecting North America, not anything or anywhere else. It strikes me that mixing up the North American Aerospace Defense Command with defending Mid East oil shows a lack of thought about the whole issue, or that this was an opportunistic, cheap jab at the people who have worked, fought and died to protect your freedom to be sarcastically snippy.

I'll point out that I and millions of other Americans (and Canadians) have worked our tails off in poorly paid, dangerous jobs (even when not in combat) to defend the freedoms so many folks here seem to take for granted, and that when people get all righteously indignant when reminded that there still is a military out there, defending them whether they like it or not, that some of us kind of wonder whether all the crap we went through to do that defending was worth our time...
 
subego Dec 6, 2013 12:40 AM
Glenn. You're verging on the offensive.

If the problem is people not understanding the defensive nature of the American military, do you really think giving Santa a fighter escort is the proper means of education?

This was a stupid idea, full stop. They deserve what pipe they're getting. The notion criticism of this is grounds to question whether people deserve to be defended is pretty beyond the pale.
 
subego Dec 6, 2013 06:21 AM
To be clear, one of the issues I have here is I think this makes a mockery of the sacrifices you and others have made.
 
ghporter Dec 6, 2013 06:28 AM
I never said I thought NORAD's new graphics were a good idea - I said "not that I think adding F-16s to the graphics is a good idea as such". I said that it bothered me that any mention of the US military seems to bring out a huge anti-military reaction that seems to reflect a lack of appreciation of the amount of work, time, and human life that has gone into maintaining our freedoms. The dripping (and cheap-shot) sarcasm about the subject was exceptionally offensive to me. I take this stuff very, very seriously, and having spent most of my adult life serving the American People (in crap conditions, with crap pay and doing crap jobs), when this kind of reaction shows up without (what I think of as a real) reason, sometimes I just have to respond.
 
ebuddy Dec 6, 2013 06:37 AM
Thank you for your service Glenn. These people need to go see an air-show and chill the hell out.
 
ghporter Dec 6, 2013 06:40 AM
That's a very good idea, ebuddy. This time of year stresses me out for a number of reasons, and I'm more sensitive than I need to be. Watching pilots show off with those beautiful maneuvers always chills me out...
 
Phileas Dec 6, 2013 06:49 AM
I am sorry Glen, I didn't mean to take a cheap shot at you. Also, I am quite capable to differentiate between the service of a soldier and the political machining that makes a sad mockery of said service, which, unfortunately, is what seems to happen with ever increasing frequency.

I thought your initial statement was displaying an endearing but nonetheless somewhat blue-eyed naïveté. I should not have reacted in a flippant way that ended up causing offense to you and for that I apologize.
 
ebuddy Dec 6, 2013 07:10 AM
I still think Santa's apology would've been more artfully worded;

I'm sorry they've found themselves in this situation based on the things I've said.
 
subego Dec 6, 2013 07:20 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by ghporter (Post 4260353)
I never said I thought NORAD's new graphics were a good idea - I said "not that I think adding F-16s to the graphics is a good idea as such". I said that it bothered me that any mention of the US military seems to bring out a huge anti-military reaction that seems to reflect a lack of appreciation of the amount of work, time, and human life that has gone into maintaining our freedoms. The dripping (and cheap-shot) sarcasm about the subject was exceptionally offensive to me. I take this stuff very, very seriously, and having spent most of my adult life serving the American People (in crap conditions, with crap pay and doing crap jobs), when this kind of reaction shows up without (what I think of as a real) reason, sometimes I just have to respond.
If you're talking about me, the sarcasm isn't directed at you, it's directed at the Pentagon.

I'm hugely pro-military. Some would say to a fault. As such, it's impossible not to be enraged by the misuse of the military.

To run in place for a decade, putting troops through a meat grinder, while the whole time acting as the target for (sometimes righteous) wrath, is misuse on an epic scale.
 
osiris Dec 6, 2013 09:07 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by ghporter (Post 4260327)
Am I really using apples and oranges? All I'm saying is that adding airplane graphics to the computer generated pictures of Santa's sleigh isn't fundamentally offensive, and that people getting upset because a military organization includes pictures of some of their equipment with Santa are being either truly ignorant or willfully disingenuous.
NORAD is all about protecting North America, not anything or anywhere else. It strikes me that mixing up the North American Aerospace Defense Command with defending Mid East oil shows a lack of thought about the whole issue, or that this was an opportunistic, cheap jab at the people who have worked, fought and died to protect your freedom to be sarcastically snippy.

I'll point out that I and millions of other Americans (and Canadians) have worked our tails off in poorly paid, dangerous jobs (even when not in combat) to defend the freedoms so many folks here seem to take for granted, and that when people get all righteously indignant when reminded that there still is a military out there, defending them whether they like it or not, that some of us kind of wonder whether all the crap we went through to do that defending was worth our time...
I don't need anything pointed out - I come from a military family, so please...

What you don't know is that some humor or imagery can be offensive to others. Case in point: I have a lot of cops and detectives as friends - ever hear of cop humor? It would make Joe Citizen sh*t in his pants. This kind of cop humor doesn't often leak out for a reason. It offends the living crap out of people - and people get the wrong idea about the department and it just looks bad to those who don't 'get it'. So this is not an attack on you, I would never stoop to that level, so please don't take it that way.
 
BadKosh Dec 6, 2013 12:27 PM
Little kids who still wait for Santa to bring gifts get all excited when they hear on the radio or TV about where Santa is right now (with SUPPORT from the Air Force) and start wondering when Santa will arrive at their home. C'mon you over serious Grinches, LIGHTEN UP!!!

Merry Christmas!
 
ghporter Dec 7, 2013 05:23 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by osiris (Post 4260376)
I don't need anything pointed out - I come from a military family, so please...

What you don't know is that some humor or imagery can be offensive to others. Case in point: I have a lot of cops and detectives as friends - ever hear of cop humor? It would make Joe Citizen sh*t in his pants. This kind of cop humor doesn't often leak out for a reason. It offends the living crap out of people - and people get the wrong idea about the department and it just looks bad to those who don't 'get it'. So this is not an attack on you, I would never stoop to that level, so please don't take it that way.
I felt that several folks had ignored the context of the NORAD graphics, and it had come across as intentional and mean spirited, which really irked me. I know cop humor, fire fighter humor, (ER humor is much worse, by the way), and it was specifically my habitual applying of the appropriate context to such things that made the statements that bothered me come across so badly.

I really appreciate it that folks have gone to the trouble of responding so positively to my very negative post. As I've said, this time of year stresses me out ("Black Friday," Christmas decorations and music out before Halloween, the complete lack of apparent public appreciation for what either the secular or religious points of the end of year holidays are, etc.). I do sometimes feel that I put in all those crappy years to help Joe Schmo poop on everything I felt I was protecting, but mostly that's because Joe is a horrible human being, not because he's a representative sample. I try not to voice that sort of sentiment because it feels like I'm whining, whether or not the frustration I'm trying to express is actually communicated.

subego, I was not suggesting your posts were the sarcasm that bothered me. I am not sure specifically which post I was responding to - if any. I'm sorry if I came across that way.

I am proud of my service, and am honored that I was among those entrusted with defending our nation and our (rather fragmented and disparate) way of life, and I thank all of you for acknowledging that however unpleasant it is to need such service, that it really is needed.
 
subego Dec 7, 2013 05:34 PM
You should be proud of your service.

My big issue is the people entrusted to oversee the end of the world are held to certain standards of decorum. I don't think they lived up to that standard in this case.

That's why the idea of tracking Santa is so pleasing, it's a little levity for an exceedingly solemn job. Once you go past the involvement being incidental, it belies having lost sight of the extreme nature of the duty.

Don't get me wrong. It's fully expected for internal behavior to be looser, precisely because it stays internal.



Edit: I thought you may have been referring to me because you mentioned "dripping sarcasm". My OP is guilty as charged on that front.
 
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