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-   -   WTF. Seriously why shoot kids? (http://forums.macnn.com/95/political-war-lounge/496081/wtf-seriously-why-shoot-kids/)

 
knifecarrier2 Dec 14, 2012 09:39 AM
WTF. Seriously why shoot kids?
Okay, school shootings are universally dumb/stupid, but as far as I can remember, it was always some kid bullied by others. Not saying I agree with the method, but I at least understood some aspect of the motive in terms of why someone would shoot people at a school.

But this?! What the ****ing ****. Why? Who the hell thinks shooting kids is fun? ?! Where is the motive? What reason? :censor:
 
ShortcutToMoncton Dec 14, 2012 09:41 AM
Seriously messed up. Principal and teachers shot too, sounds like the shooter might have been a father of a student? Ugh.
 
The Final Dakar Dec 14, 2012 09:42 AM
Sadly, I've hit the point where I ignore stories about shootings, but then it caught my eye that this is the worst school shooting in US history and involved an elementary school. FFS...

Anyway, what little I caught was this guy also had a bullet proof vest, the principle is dead, and there's a suspected 2nd shooter. Christ.
 
Spheric Harlot Dec 14, 2012 10:24 AM
Good God.

Five-to-ten-year-olds.
 
andi*pandi Dec 14, 2012 10:30 AM
People are f*cked up. Seriously, what the hell.

I read on CNN the shooter was 20, so not sure if he really could be a father of one of the kids...
 
The Final Dakar Dec 14, 2012 10:32 AM
His mother is a teacher at the school and among the dead. There may or may not be another dead relative in NJ.
 
andi*pandi Dec 14, 2012 10:33 AM
Jesus.
 
Phileas Dec 14, 2012 10:33 AM
What a gigantic asshole. Horrible, horrible, horrible.

CNN had a picture of a mother who had just learned that her kid was dead. I really wish I hadn't seen that.

Also, Mr. President: Enough of your weasly sympathy waffle. Grow some balls and stand up to the morons of the NRA.
 
The Final Dakar Dec 14, 2012 10:35 AM
Apparently the media outed the wrong guy already...

http://forum-images.macnn.com/import/image_7623.jpg
 
The Final Dakar Dec 14, 2012 10:43 AM
What I'm reading now is the body in NJ is the father.
 
BadKosh Dec 14, 2012 10:47 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by Phileas (Post 4206806)
What a gigantic asshole. Horrible, horrible, horrible.
CNN had a picture of a mother who had just learned that her kid was dead. I really wish I hadn't seen that.
Also, Mr. President: Enough of your weasly sympathy waffle. Grow some balls and stand up to the morons of the NRA.
We don't condone this.

Most legal gun owners didn't break the law or kill people.

What do you want THEM to do? give up their guns because of an idiot? He's dead now right?

The guns don't hop up and start shooting people. Intolerant, emotion driven nut jobs and violent wack-o's do.
 
The Final Dakar Dec 14, 2012 11:11 AM
Hearing the person they took into custody is his brother.
 
knifecarrier2 Dec 14, 2012 11:25 AM
I don't really think this is a discussion about gun control. At all. Politicizing something like this for your own agenda is a ****ing petty thing to do.
 
finboy Dec 14, 2012 11:29 AM
Why shoot kids?

Well, because they don't shoot back! Duh.

Everyone knows that schools are "Gun Free Zones" - if you planned to go on a shooting spree and get yourself (and your middle name) in the history books then what better way to do it?

I'm sure the pols are lining up to use this against legitimate gun owners once again, even though the evidence shows that these things are less likely to happen when responsible individuals get to carry guns. Not in schools, though...
 
design219 Dec 14, 2012 11:30 AM
I've got to talk to my kids in a couple hours when I get home from work.

What to say without tears?
 
The Final Dakar Dec 14, 2012 11:30 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by knifecarrier2 (Post 4206814)
I don't really think this is a discussion about gun control. At all. Politicizing something like this for your own agenda is a ****ing petty thing to do.
How do I explain this without entering that debate? I guess I see it as natural that the conversation will head in that direction if you consider this event "preventable" and then go down that road examining possible future solutions.
 
ShortcutToMoncton Dec 14, 2012 11:35 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by finboy (Post 4206816)
I'm sure the pols are lining up to use this against legitimate gun owners once again, even though the evidence shows that these things are less likely to happen when responsible individuals get to carry guns. Not in schools, though...
Ahhhhh yes. The 'ol "the solution to stopping gun violence is to give everyone a gun" argument. :)
 
The Final Dakar Dec 14, 2012 11:37 AM
I won't speak for knife carrier, but I feel like if people want to start a PL thread to talk about the gun control aspect and leave this thread to reporting news and sharing thoughts, I think that'd be great.
 
knifecarrier2 Dec 14, 2012 11:37 AM
Because there's two sides and both are dumb.

1. Increase gun control, which will just make it harder for law abiding citizens to get them, and do nothing.

2. "This is why people should have conceal/carry" okay but I'm pretty sure most teachers don't pack heat so it wouldn't have helped.

It's just dumb. Just please don't. There's no point in arguing either side. One side is full of koombayah granola eating dumb****s that think outlawing firearms is somehow possible and that fewer guns reduce crime (ha) and the other side is full of redneck morons that get boners over firearms. I rarely see anybody talking about a middle ground, which is I'm pretty sure what we already have. What I do think is worth talking about is motives... and trying to understand WHY something happened.
 
OAW Dec 14, 2012 11:38 AM
I've said it before and I'll say it again. There's no reason for the general public to be able to possess semi-automatic assault rifles. My heart goes out to the fallen and their families. :(

OAW
 
Spheric Harlot Dec 14, 2012 11:42 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by knifecarrier2 (Post 4206814)
I don't really think this is a discussion about gun control. At all.
It needs to be. Because this shit has got to stop. Or at least become slightly less frequent.
 
sek929 Dec 14, 2012 11:45 AM
Quote
One side is full of koombayah granola eating dumb****s that think outlawing firearms is somehow possible and that fewer guns reduce crime (ha) and the other side is full of redneck morons that get boners over firearms.
Say what you will about Rob, but this statement is a fairly accurate depiction of the "dialogue" that always happens post one of these tragedies.

You've got people who think the world would be a safer place if everyone was packing heat, and those that think guns can be magically legislated out of existence. It's easier to rally on about preconceived political positions than the staggering chore of trying to understand the mindset of such abhorrent actions.

I myself am a very non-violent person, the type of person who would never throw the first punch. How an adult can slaughter children is just.....impossible to comprehend.
 
knifecarrier2 Dec 14, 2012 11:49 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by OAW (Post 4206823)
I've said it before and I'll say it again. There's no reason for the general public to be able to possess semi-automatic assault rifles. My heart goes out to the fallen and their families. :(
OAW
Okay, I'm only going to do this once, then go to the PL lounge.

1. The dude used two handguns. Not assault rifles.

2. Semi automatic sounds scary to you because you don't understand anything. Almost ALL guns are semi-automatic. Even wild west style colt revolvers. In fact, it is HARD to find firearms that are not semi-automatic. You just associate that with "automatic", which is already illegal.

3. Assault rifles. Regular rifles. Know the difference? Black paint. Look scary. Seriously, that's about it. I strongly suggest you read this entire wiki entry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Assault_Weapons_Ban#Definition_of_assault_ weapon

4. These were legally acquired firearms. And not that expensive.

Now if you mean extended clips, say so. If you mean automatic weapons, say so. If you mean make it harder to acquire firearms ILLEGALLY, say so. But you just come across as ignorant and very, very naive.
 
knifecarrier2 Dec 14, 2012 11:51 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by sek929 (Post 4206826)
I myself am a very non-violent person, the type of person who would never throw the first punch.  How an adult can slaughter children is just.....impossible to comprehend.
I'm pretty violent. I'd torture the hell out of rapists and child molesters with a smile on my face while whistling "what a beautiful world". I've thrown the first punch on occasion. Sometimes I feel that I lack empathy and treat others as objects.

But this... I'm extremely distracted at work today, my brain is struggling to understand how/why/what the hell is happening.
 
OAW Dec 14, 2012 12:12 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by knifecarrier2 (Post 4206827)
Okay, I'm only going to do this once, then go to the PL lounge.
1. The dude used two handguns. Not assault rifles.
According to your March 2012 join date you are fairly new around here. So I'll overlook the fact that you don't realize that I'm not one to say things I can't back up.

Quote
The motive for the shooting was unknown, and the gunman’s name was not released.
Two 9mm handguns were recovered from the scene, an official told NBCNewYork.com. The Associated Press said one of the guns was a .223-caliber rifle.
Elementary school massacre: 27 dead, including 20 kids, in Connecticut | NBCNews.com

Just so we are ALL clear. This is what a .223 caliber semi-automatic rifle looks like:

7624/width/350/height/700[/IMG]

Quote, Originally Posted by knifecarrier2
2. Semi automatic sounds scary to you because you don't understand anything. Almost ALL guns are semi-automatic. Even wild west style colt revolvers. In fact, it is HARD to find firearms that are not semi-automatic. You just associate that with "automatic", which is already illegal.
3. Assault rifles. Regular rifles. Know the difference? Black paint. Look scary. Seriously, that's about it. I strongly suggest you read this entire wiki entry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Assault_Weapons_Ban#Definition_of_assault_ weapon
I know the difference. And nowhere did I say this was a fully-automatic weapon. The point is that this guy did not have a bolt-action rifle or anything that would have required any sort of action on his part between shots. And with a rifle that is inherently going to have more range and accuracy than a handgun, THAT is why he was able to commit so much carnage in so little time. :hmm:

Quote, Originally Posted by knifecarrier2
4. These were legally acquired firearms. And not that expensive.
Now if you mean extended clips, say so. If you mean automatic weapons, say so. If you mean make it harder to acquire firearms ILLEGALLY, say so. But you just come across as ignorant and very, very naive.
I see no reason for extend clips to be owned by the general public. No reason for automatic weapons to be available to the general public. No reason for MILITARY STYLE semi-automatic weapons to be available to the general public. And as for your "ignorant" comment .... let's just say that as a father I'm inclined to let some words fly back at you in light of this situation. But on second thought ... I'll just let your assumptions and my response speak for themselves. :err:

OAW
 
The Final Dakar Dec 14, 2012 12:14 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by OAW (Post 4206830)
7624/width/350/height/700[/IMG]
Oh jesus, I'm not even into guns but I know that's practically a caricature of an AR. But I suppose showing a barebones one wouldn't look menacing enough.
 
Spheric Harlot Dec 14, 2012 12:16 PM
OAW: knifecarrier is Rob/Ca$h.

As you know, he's been around longer than you have.
 
OAW Dec 14, 2012 12:18 PM
@Dakar,

The POINT here is that semi-automatic assault weapon can do a LOT MORE DAMAGE in a LOT LESS TIME than something like this ....

7625/width/350/height/700[/IMG]

OAW
 
The Final Dakar Dec 14, 2012 12:19 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by OAW (Post 4206834)
@Dakar, The POINT
The point would have been better served without the photographic equivalent of hyperbole.
 
andi*pandi Dec 14, 2012 12:22 PM
OAW, knifecarrier has been here... a long time.

Aside from the gun control issue, how do we stop the crazy. What makes kids go so bad as to not only kill their own parents but small children who happen to be nearby. These could have been great parents who did everything right by their kids. Why did these two turn bad? It scares me wondering, when the sweet kid you know becomes something to fear, something dangerous. How do you go on as a parent. The responsibility. In a way, if I was the mother in this case, knowing my kid killed 20 others... I would not want to survive and look the other parents in the eyes.
 
OAW Dec 14, 2012 12:23 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot (Post 4206832)
OAW: knifecarrier is Rob/Ca$h.
As you know, he's been around longer than you have.

Gotcha. Sorry ... but unless it's something obvious like Dakar's various handles .... I don't even try keep up with such changes. I deal with each "handle" as its own separate individual. Personally, I've never seen the need to post under a multiple handles or switch. To each his own. :err:

OAW
 
OAW Dec 14, 2012 12:28 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by andi*pandi (Post 4206836)
OAW, knifecarrier has been here... a long time.
Aside from the gun control issue, how do we stop the crazy. What makes kids go so bad as to not only kill their own parents but small children who happen to be nearby. These could have been great parents who did everything right by their kids. Why did these two turn bad? It scares me wondering, when the sweet kid you know becomes something to fear, something dangerous. How do you go on as a parent. The responsibility. In a way, if I was the mother in this case, knowing my kid killed 20 others... I would not want to survive and look the other parents in the eyes.
I don't know if we can "stop the crazy". Certainly we can't eliminate all semi-automatic assault rifles. But we can damned sure not make it easy for even MORE of them to be circulated in the general public. Because "the crazy" and "semi-automatic assault rifles" damned sure doesn't mix for f*ck's sake! :shake:

OAW
 
knifecarrier2 Dec 14, 2012 12:29 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by OAW (Post 4206830)
According to your March 2012 join date you are fairly new around here. So I'll overlook the fact that you don't realize that I'm not one to say things I can't back up.
Elementary school massacre: 27 dead, including 20 kids, in Connecticut | NBCNews.com
Just so we are ALL clear. This is what a .223 caliber semi-automatic rifle looks like:
7624/width/350/height/700[/IMG]
I know the difference. And nowhere did I say this was a fully-automatic weapon. The point is that this guy did not have a bolt-action rifle or anything that would have required any sort of action on his part between shots. And with a rifle that is inherently going to have more range and accuracy than a handgun, THAT is why he was able to commit so much carnage in so little time. :hmm:
I see no reason for extend clips to be owned by the general public. No reason for automatic weapons to be available to the general public. No reason for MILITARY STYLE semi-automatic weapons to be available to the general public. And as for your "ignorant" comment .... let's just say that as a father I'm inclined to let some words fly back at you in light of this situation. But on second thought ... I'll just let your assumptions and my response speak for themselves. :err:
OAW
K. You're a ****ing idiot.

In a close-quarter space like a school, you'll do a lot more damage with handguns than you will a full-rifle. And funny that you didn't post a picture of this:

http://forum-images.macnn.com/import/image_7626.jpg

That's also a semi-automatic .223 rifle. But of course it doesn't fit with your agenda...

Like I said. You definitely fall into the granola munching "lets all hold hands" and peace for everyone attitude. You're dumb.
 
design219 Dec 14, 2012 12:29 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by The Final Dakar (Post 4206807)
Apparently the media outed the wrong guy already...
http://forum-images.macnn.com/import/image_7623.jpg
Yeah, it's looking like they got the wrong brother. It seems to be Adam.

It's so easy to jump on facebook and grab people now.
 
sek929 Dec 14, 2012 12:35 PM
http://forum-images.macnn.com/import/image_7627.jpg


Here's a more realistic look of a basic .223 Semi-Auto rifle, one that one of my close friend owns in fact.

Edit: Rob beat me to it.
 
OAW Dec 14, 2012 12:46 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by knifecarrier2 (Post 4206839)
K. You're a ****ing idiot.
In a close-quarter space like a school, you'll do a lot more damage with handguns than you will a full-rifle. And funny that you didn't post a picture of this:
http://forum-images.macnn.com/import/image_7626.jpg
That's also a semi-automatic .223 rifle. But of course it doesn't fit with your agenda...
Like I said. You definitely fall into the granola munching "lets all hold hands" and peace for everyone attitude. You're dumb.
CNN is reporting that the weapons recovered were a .223 Bushmaster, a Glock, and a Sig-Sauer.

Quote
Three guns were found at the scene, CNN's Susan Candiotti reports. According to a law enforcement source, the third weapon found on the scene was a .223 Bushmaster. The other weapons, previously reported, are a Glock, and a Sig-Sauer. No word on the models of Glock or Sig-Sauer.
Children and adults gunned down in Connecticut school massacre | CNN.com

I think you well know that the Bushmaster looks a helluva lot closer to what I posted than what you did. Better yet, there's a link to a Google search since some seem to think I'm just making this sh*t up ... :hmm:

"223 Bushmaster" | Google Image Search

And I don't know the last time YOU have been into an elementary school, but I can assure you that it is not ALL "close quarter". Sure an individual CLASSROOM is. But there is plenty of open space in HALLWAYS and GYMS and AUDITORIUMS and LUNCHROOMS where a rifle would be more effective if you are some nutcase hellbent on killing KIDS. :rolleyes:

Here's an image from the middle of the first row on that Google search.

7628/width/350/height/700[/IMG]

Available at your local Walmart. :shake:

OAW
 
knifecarrier2 Dec 14, 2012 12:46 PM
More info came out, looks like he was using an M4. So in this case, yeah, it's basically an assault rifle modified for civilian use... but it's still no more deadly than any other semi-automatic rifle. The rounds are really small, so hopefully some of the kids survived, a few pops of a .223 will go right through an adult without even knocking them over. I know some mercenary types that hate smaller round munitions because you can shoot someone 5-6 times and they won't even slow down if they're running at you.
 
sek929 Dec 14, 2012 01:02 PM
Yeah a M4 and the .223 rifles we posted are in every logical way the same rifle that fires the same exact rounds. The M4 does look a bit scarier though.
 
knifecarrier2 Dec 14, 2012 01:13 PM
Looking Scary is something that people freak out about. Wonder what happens if someone goes on a shooting spree with a pink AK or something. That'll blow their minds.
 
finboy Dec 14, 2012 01:18 PM
The point here is that a common hunting shotgun can do more damage in a confined space than either a handgun or one of "those". Or, for that matter, so could a machete.

Banning. guns. doesn't. work. Eternal vigilance works most of the time, and guns carried by concealed-carry licenseholders work even better than eternal vigilance alone.

FWIW this should have started out in the PL in the first place, since that's where it always ends up. My first post just mentioned the inevitability of the Lefties jumping on this so that the crisis wouldn't "go to waste." Look how fast that happened!

Also FWIW: My kindergartener just got home. She's very excited b/c they celebrated her birthday today. I've never minded all of the security procedures they have at her neighborhood elementary school because some of the other parents are real weirdo hippie-dippie types. But their kids are nice, so there's hope.
 
OAW Dec 14, 2012 01:43 PM
I think the issue here is the proper balance between PUBLIC SAFETY and GUN RIGHTS. Especially when we already KNOW we have plenty of nutcases in this country. Can we ever completely prevent tragedies like this from happening? Absolutely not. But we CAN make it more difficult for some fool to wreak this much havoc when he does decide to jump off the deep end. I've said it before and I'll say it again .... if you need a high-capacity magazine or a semi-automatic assault rifle to go hunt Bambi then you need to find yourself a new pastime. Schools full of dead children simply aren't worth it. :shake:

OAW
 
knifecarrier2 Dec 14, 2012 01:54 PM
http://forum-images.macnn.com/import/image_7633.jpg

Extended clips are already banned.

And it's been mentioned before but you're apparently too stupid to understand: A civilian M4 like this is no more dangerous or lethal than a typical hunting rifle. It just looks scarier. I know a lot of people who hunt, and none of them hunt with ****ing bolt-actions.
 
OAW Dec 14, 2012 02:12 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by knifecarrier2 (Post 4206857)
http://forum-images.macnn.com/import/image_7633.jpg
Extended clips are already banned.
Actually the ban on "extended clips" expired in 2004 along with the rest of the federal assault weapons ban. :stick:

Quote
The Act also defined and banned 'large capacity ammunition feeding devices' in the ban, which generally applied to magazines or other ammunition feeding devices with capacities of greater than a certain number of rounds, and that up to the time of the Act were considered normal or factory magazines. Media and popular culture referred to these as 'high capacity magazines or feeding devices'. Depending on the locality and type of firearm, the cutoff between a 'normal' capacity and 'high' capacity magazine was 3, 7, 10, 12, 15, or 20 rounds. The now defunct federal ban set the limit at 10 rounds.
Which is precisely why James Holmes was able to LEGALLY purchase a 100-round drum magazine that he used in the Aurora, CO shootings. And Jared Loughner was able to LEGALLY purchase the 33 round magazine he used to shoot Congressman Gabby Giffords and 18 others in Arizona. Certain STATES ban such high capacity magazines ... i.e. California, Hawaii, Illinois, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey and New York .... but it it clearly not comprehensive.

Quote, Originally Posted by knifecarrier2 (Post 4206857)
And it's been mentioned before but you're apparently too stupid to understand: A civilian M4 like this is no more dangerous or lethal than a typical hunting rifle. It just looks scarier. I know a lot of people who hunt, and none of them hunt with ****ing bolt-actions.
Again I'll let your reliance on personal insults speak for itself. :rolleyes:

That being said, if you had comprehended my ACTUAL POSITION instead of the concocted one you've convinced yourself of ... then you would never have even said something that makes your lack of reading comprehension skills so evident. My fundamental point here is that there is no reason for such a weapon to be used as a "typical hunting rifle". The only one here talking this BS about how it "looks" is YOU. You haven't seen me say that. My point all along has been over the fact that it is SEMI-AUTOMATIC. You want to hunt? Fine. Man the f*ck up and go after Bambi with a bolt-action. Because the threat to PUBLIC SAFETY in situations like this far outweighs some hunter's CONVENIENCE of not having to load the next round. :hmm:

OAW
 
OAW Dec 14, 2012 02:32 PM
It would appear that authorities got the brothers mixed up .....

Quote
The gunman who slaughtered more than two dozen people, including 20 children, at an elementary school Friday in Newtown, Conn., was identified by authorities as Adam Lanza.

Among those Lanza, 20, is believed to have killed: his mother Nancy, a kindergarten teacher at the school.

Law enforcement officials initially told NBC News that the gunman was Lanza's brother, Ryan, and they had sent out a bulletin to local and federal law enforcement agencies to that effect.

But when authorities went to Ryan's home in Hoboken, N.J., to search it, they unexpectedly found him there.

Ryan told police he was not involved and that his brother has a history of mental health issues and might have had his ID at the time of the shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary, officials said.

The sources did not know how Adam Lanza had obtained the weapons found at the school and in a car parked outside.
Elementary school massacre: 27 killed, including 20 kids, at Connecticut school | NBCNews.com

Breaking news has Adam Lanza killing his mother at home WITH HER OWN GUNS that were apparently unsecured. Like I said earlier ... "the crazy" and "semi-automatic weapons damned sure doesn't mix. :err:

OAW
 
knifecarrier2 Dec 14, 2012 02:55 PM
Your own link "Two 9mm handguns were recovered from the scene, an official told NBCNewYork.com, and a rifle was found in the back of a car parked outside the school."

Hrm. So. Yeah.
 
OAW Dec 14, 2012 03:33 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by knifecarrier2 (Post 4206870)
Your own link "Two 9mm handguns were recovered from the scene, an official told NBCNewYork.com, and a rifle was found in the back of a car parked outside the school."
Hrm. So. Yeah.
Actually my link had exactly what I quoted as the ENTIRE ARTICLE at the time I posted it. The article has been filled out since then as more information has come to light. I'm going to have myself a glass of wine while I watch the news and get the latest on this unspeakable tragedy. I imagine you'll continue being an asshole. You've made it abundantly clear you are quite skilled at it. :err:

OAW
 
andi*pandi Dec 14, 2012 04:15 PM
Guys, just, no. Bickering doesn't help.

The Onion has a pretty good analysis:

http://www.theonion.com/articles/fack-everything-nation-reports,30743/

(so apparently huddler censors ü version)
 
OAW Dec 14, 2012 04:20 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by andi*pandi (Post 4206882)
Guys, just, no. Bickering doesn't help.
The Onion has a pretty good analysis:
http://www.theonion.com/articles/****-everything-nation-reports,30743/
Link isn't working Andi.

OAW
 
subego Dec 14, 2012 04:25 PM
The dirty word is being starred out of the link.

You're gonna have to go manual.
 
OAW Dec 14, 2012 04:41 PM
No worries. I'll figure it out.

OAW
 
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