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-   -   The end of the American economic institution. (http://forums.macnn.com/95/political-war-lounge/496881/the-end-of-american-economic-institution/)

 
Snow-i Jan 7, 2013 01:07 PM
The end of the American economic institution.
Funny Money: Pundits float $1 trillion coin as answer to debt-ceiling standoff | Fox News

Great! Lets just make all money monopoly money. Not like their aren't treating it any different now anyways.

Discuss (after of course you've changed your investments to tangible assets).
 
The Final Dakar Jan 7, 2013 01:10 PM
Wasn't this discussed when the first debt ceiling stand-off ensued?
 
Snow-i Jan 7, 2013 01:36 PM
Yeah but it didn't gain any sort of traction. From what I'm seeing its actually being considered as a way for the administration to bypass the right-controlled house and push for the elimination of the debt ceiling.

It's scary that this even comes up as a viable solution.
 
The Final Dakar Jan 7, 2013 01:41 PM
I think it's equally scary that the debt-ceiling is being used as a hostage.
 
Snow-i Jan 7, 2013 01:46 PM
Same here. Extremely frightening that it has come to this. It doesn't seem that any of our politicians are interested in fixing this economy. They managed to raise both taxes and spending with this latest bill that went through, while pandering to special interests as always.
 
The Final Dakar Jan 7, 2013 01:50 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by Snow-i (Post 4210590)
Same here. Extremely frightening that it has come to this.
Come to this? This is a made-up crisis.

Quote, Originally Posted by Snow-i (Post 4210590)
It doesn't seem that any of our politicians are interested in fixing this economy.
Elaborate.

Quote, Originally Posted by Snow-i (Post 4210590)
They managed to raise both taxes and spending with this latest bill that went through, while pandering to special interests as always.
Well, to be fair overall spending should be judged by their resolution in less than two months. In reality, it's utterly hilarious that congress punted on their compromise so hard they've run into the next debt ceiling.
 
Snow-i Jan 7, 2013 02:03 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by The Final Dakar (Post 4210591)
Come to this? This is a made-up crisis.
Here's the Crisis:
2013 United States federal budget - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Notice how the "Outlays" are significantly higher than the revenues?
Quote
Elaborate.
http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/

Quote
Well, to be fair overall spending should be judged by their resolution in less than two months. In reality, it's utterly hilarious that congress punted on their compromise so hard they've run into the next debt ceiling.
Hilarious isn't the word I was thinking of.
 
The Final Dakar Jan 7, 2013 02:13 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by Snow-i (Post 4210594)
Here's the Crisis:
2013 United States federal budget - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Notice how the "Outlays" are significantly higher than the revenues?
Then hold the federal budget hostage. Isn't that what Gingrich did?


Quote, Originally Posted by Snow-i (Post 4210594)
How about you stop being cute and actually explain.
 
Snow-i Jan 7, 2013 02:16 PM
I fail to understand that given our current economic state, any spending and any breaks to special interest can be allowed to pass. It's a complete abdication of duty by elected officials. We're supposed to be fixing these issues, isn't this the promise Obama was elected on?
 
The Final Dakar Jan 8, 2013 03:51 PM
You know, I would have said this wouldn't happen just a day or two ago, but given the incessant buzz I have to say that if the Republicans remain recalcitrant and public polls show favorability/support towards it, I could see Obama green-lighting it.
 
besson3c Jan 9, 2013 02:47 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by Snow-i (Post 4210601)
I fail to understand that given our current economic state, any spending and any breaks to special interest can be allowed to pass. It's a complete abdication of duty by elected officials. We're supposed to be fixing these issues, isn't this the promise Obama was elected on?

You realize that Obama needs congress to pass spending bills, right?
 
Shaddim Jan 9, 2013 08:28 AM
I like the Trillion $ coin idea, but it would require Obama's face.
 
olePigeon Jan 9, 2013 02:37 PM
They should make it gold. Gold is over evaluated anyway, needs to come down.
 
Shaddim Jan 9, 2013 02:50 PM
It has to be platinum to fit through the loophole.
 
osiris Jan 9, 2013 02:52 PM
I have two of them special coins.
 
The Final Dakar Jan 9, 2013 02:55 PM
I feel like it has to be Dick Cheney, with instead of E pluribus unum, "Reagan proved that deficits don't matter." And then we can all go to hell.
 
Doc HM Jan 10, 2013 08:39 AM
If they DO mint a trillion dollar platinum coin, won't Shaddim just buy it?

Ducks head (very low)
 
Snow-i Jan 10, 2013 01:44 PM
Why stop at a trillion? Why not a quadrillion dollar coin? That way we can plan for our children's debt as well.
 
Shaddim Jan 10, 2013 05:19 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by Doc HM (Post 4211142)
If they DO mint a trillion dollar platinum coin, won't Shaddim just buy it?

Ducks head (very low)
I don't want to report anymore posts, please relax.
 
Shaddim Jan 10, 2013 05:20 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by Snow-i (Post 4211182)
Why stop at a trillion? Why not a quadrillion dollar coin? That way we can plan for our children's debt as well.
What is the value of "faith and trust"? That's how we got into this mess.
 
turtle777 Jan 13, 2013 02:09 AM
 
besson3c Jan 13, 2013 02:11 AM
That cartoon makes quite the straw man argument.
 
turtle777 Jan 13, 2013 02:15 AM
It's satire, do you need help with that ?

-t
 
besson3c Jan 13, 2013 02:22 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by turtle777 (Post 4211599)
It's satire, do you need help with that ?

-t

The premise in which it is based off of is poor.

Don't make me put you back in my drawer.
 
turtle777 Jan 13, 2013 02:23 AM
Satire is opinion. Sorry that you don't' like / get it.

-t
 
besson3c Jan 13, 2013 02:25 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by turtle777 (Post 4211601)
Satire is opinion. Sorry that you don't' like / get it.

-t

What valid opinion is being expressed?
 
turtle777 Jan 13, 2013 02:45 AM
Oh, sorry, I didn't know you were in charge of regulating opinion. In that case, $%&* off.

-t
 
besson3c Jan 13, 2013 02:46 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by turtle777 (Post 4211603)
Oh, sorry, I didn't know you were in charge of regulating opinion. In that case, $%&* off.

-t

Okay, well as always I'm happy to have given you your fix of conflict, albeit in an unintended fashion.
 
olePigeon Jan 17, 2013 12:15 PM
If they made it 80 quadrillion, we could build a Death Star. America! F*CK YEAH!
 
Snow-i Jan 18, 2013 01:23 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by olePigeon (Post 4212307)
If they made it 80 quadrillion, we could build a Death Star. America! F*CK YEAH!
Mint it.
 
The Final Dakar Jan 18, 2013 01:36 PM
Good news, your economic institution won't be ending.

Eric Cantor || Majority Leader || Newsroom || Leader Cantor: It's Time To Pass A Budget
Quote
"The first step to fixing this problem is to pass a budget that reduces spending. The House has done so, and will again. The Democratic Senate has not passed a budget in almost four years, which is unfair to hardworking taxpayers who expect more from their representatives. That ends this year.

"We must pay our bills and responsibly budget for our future. Next week, we will authorize a three month temporary debt limit increase to give the Senate and House time to pass a budget. Furthermore, if the Senate or House fails to pass a budget in that time, Members of Congress will not be paid by the American people for failing to do their job. No budget, no pay.
I'm down with this, Republicans.
 
Snow-i Jan 22, 2013 10:49 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by The Final Dakar (Post 4212533)
Good news, your economic institution won't be ending.

Eric Cantor || Majority Leader || Newsroom || Leader Cantor: It's Time To Pass A Budget

I'm down with this, Republicans.
I'd be down too, except its unconstitutional. And I seriously doubt a budget will pass, at least until the night before the 3 month limit. Oh, and you can expect whatever ball of turds they pass will include billions upon billions for special interest.

Color me pessimistic but I won't be convinced until I see some action.
 
The Final Dakar Jan 22, 2013 10:51 AM
What's unconstitutional?
 
Snow-i Jan 22, 2013 12:33 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by The Final Dakar (Post 4213096)
What's unconstitutional?
Altering Congress's pay mid session.

Lawmakers call House Republicans' 'no budget, no pay' plan 'unconstitutional' | Fox News

Violates the 27th amendment.
 
Snow-i Jan 22, 2013 12:35 PM
I'd just like to add that I'm all for it. It just doesn't look like it can be done.
 
andi*pandi Jan 22, 2013 12:37 PM
It would be good PR for any of them to turn down their salary anyhow.
 
The Final Dakar Jan 22, 2013 12:38 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by Snow-i (Post 4213107)
Ah. May well be a conscious lie.
 
Snow-i Jan 22, 2013 01:00 PM
I wouldn't be opposed to a constitutional amendment that requires an annual budget in its entirety, where no additional spending may be authorized and the Senate gets no pay until it is complete.

I'd even say no legislation may be passed, but that would open the door to abuse.
 
besson3c Jan 22, 2013 02:29 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by andi*pandi (Post 4213113)
It would be good PR for any of them to turn down their salary anyhow.
Although some might make more in lobbyist kick backs than they do in salary.
 
besson3c Jan 22, 2013 02:30 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by Snow-i (Post 4213121)
I wouldn't be opposed to a constitutional amendment that requires an annual budget in its entirety, where no additional spending may be authorized and the Senate gets no pay until it is complete.

I'd even say no legislation may be passed, but that would open the door to abuse.
Wouldn't that just encourage them to seek out kick backs?
 
The Final Dakar Jan 22, 2013 02:38 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by besson3c (Post 4213139)
Wouldn't that just encourage them to seek out kick backs?
Isn't this a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation?
 
The Final Dakar Jan 22, 2013 03:17 PM
It occurs to me, someone pointed out that they're not raising the ceiling, but suspending it for three months. Seeing as that likely political maneuvering for their image with their constituency, I began thinking that with their focus on getting the Senate to pass a budget (which is fair) I wonder if this isn't another ploy to try to get Democrats to propose budget cuts (which they didn't do publicly during the "Cliff") rather than possibly maiming themselves politically by identifying what they want cut.
 
Snow-i Jan 22, 2013 05:37 PM
If that gets it done...
 
Shaddim Jan 22, 2013 06:56 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by Snow-i (Post 4213109)
I'd just like to add that I'm all for it. It just doesn't look like it can be done.
Indeed. It's a fine sentiment, but I can't see that it would hold up to judicial scrutiny.
 
The Final Dakar Jan 23, 2013 10:19 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by Snow-i (Post 4213165)
If that gets it done...
You'd be ok if the Rs ate the political shitpie to get cuts?

Anyway, it won't. I'm still trying to figure out why they left cuts on the table to only address taxes, but the entire situation seems like one long political cluster****. Best I can figure, there were concerns about ideological purity, which is why the tax cuts were allowed to expire (so they could vote to cut taxes). Between that and what is essentially a three party house, it's impossible to pass anything. Boehner got hosed on his own symbolic vote. That's gotta smart.
 
The Final Dakar Jan 23, 2013 10:20 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by Shaddim (Post 4213192)
Indeed. It's a fine sentiment, but I can't see that it would hold up to judicial scrutiny.
I read something last night that implied that at worst it gets held in escrow until the end of the congress (roughly two years). So yeah.
 
Snow-i Jan 23, 2013 02:46 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by The Final Dakar (Post 4213321)
You'd be ok if the Rs ate the political shitpie to get cuts?

Anyway, it won't. I'm still trying to figure out why they left cuts on the table to only address taxes, but the entire situation seems like one long political cluster****. Best I can figure, there were concerns about ideological purity, which is why the tax cuts were allowed to expire (so they could vote to cut taxes). Between that and what is essentially a three party house, it's impossible to pass anything. Boehner got hosed on his own symbolic vote. That's gotta smart.
I can't see this as Rs vs Ds anymore. I can only see congress vs the people. The ruling class vs us. Rs and Ds to me is just a great way to distract the public.


I wish more people would wake up to that. The differences between Rs and Ds is so small as to be insignificant when talking about the very future our society and culture. Sure there are big social issue differences but fiscally, Rs and Ds just argue over how to spend the ever increasing confiscation of the people's wealth.

Abortion and Gay marriage won't seem like such big issues when our financial system resembles that of a 3rd world oligarchy, and you and I are struggling to put bread on the table.
----
Congress:

As a parent would say to his misbehaving children. "I don't care whos fault it is, or who has to do more to get it fixed. Just do it or you're all grounded"

With Contempt,
-Snow-i.
 
Snow-i Jan 23, 2013 02:50 PM
And I wish the forefathers had the foresight to include an amendment that allowed for a "system flush"

A referendum for a vote of no confidence on congress that when invoked and passed by 60-70% of the populace, removed all of the congressman from the house and/or senate and barred them from ever running again for the same office.

You best bet that collectively, should they feel that their power was slipping and they would suffer real consequences, they'd get their acts together.
 
besson3c Jan 23, 2013 03:19 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by Snow-i (Post 4213415)
I can't see this as Rs vs Ds anymore. I can only see congress vs the people. The ruling class vs us. Rs and Ds to me is just a great way to distract the public.


I wish more people would wake up to that. The differences between Rs and Ds is so small as to be insignificant when talking about the very future our society and culture. Sure there are big social issue differences but fiscally, Rs and Ds just argue over how to spend the ever increasing confiscation of the people's wealth.

Abortion and Gay marriage won't seem like such big issues when our financial system resembles that of a 3rd world oligarchy, and you and I are struggling to put bread on the table.
----
Congress:

As a parent would say to his misbehaving children. "I don't care whos fault it is, or who has to do more to get it fixed. Just do it or you're all grounded"

With Contempt,
-Snow-i.


I agree with this, but up to a point.

Yes, this is a cluster**** filled with all sorts of games both parties play, but I think what Colin Powell was saying on Morning Joe was absolutely correct.

What he was saying was that if you criticize your own party or do something that seems ideologically impure like, *gasp*, try to compromise with the Democrats you get slaughtered by your own party. Look at the heat Chris Christie took in working with Obama and complementing his leadership there, and look at the heat Powell and Joe Scarborough are taking now for their criticisms of their party.

The Republicans are in a very weird place now feeling pressure from the far right/tea party types, those that want to grow their tent to reach out to new demographics by shifting more towards the center, those that just want Obama to lose, and those that choose to be ideologically "pure" at the expense of pragmatism. Of course, this is in the midst of feeling pressure from interest groups like the NRA, which rarely ceases (but, of course, being beholden to special interests has infected both parties).

Because the Democrats aren't in the same sort of disarray, it is not an equal 50/50 blame thing to me.
 
besson3c Jan 23, 2013 03:24 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by Snow-i (Post 4213416)
And I wish the forefathers had the foresight to include an amendment that allowed for a "system flush"

A referendum for a vote of no confidence on congress that when invoked and passed by 60-70% of the populace, removed all of the congressman from the house and/or senate and barred them from ever running again for the same office.

You best bet that collectively, should they feel that their power was slipping and they would suffer real consequences, they'd get their acts together.

A vote of no confidence would be nice at times like this.
 
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