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-   -   Republican party disarray, Bush, prescriptions (http://forums.macnn.com/95/political-war-lounge/497471/republican-party-disarray-bush-prescriptions/)

 
besson3c Jan 23, 2013 03:44 PM
Republican party disarray, Bush, prescriptions
I think most people acknowledge the disarray the Republican party is in now, obviously from losing the election, but also in attacking members that criticize it (e.g. Colin Powell, Joe Scarborough, etc.), as well as in punishing those who attempt to compromise or say something positive about the other side (e.g. Chris Christie). If the low congressional approval ratings are not enough in the way of evidence, how the party has responded to off-message groups like the NRA that also have low approval ratings seems to provide ample argument that whether this is because of the influence of the tea party, still licking wounds from the election, or whatever the case may be, the party is indeed in disarray now. If that is still insufficient, the rise of issues like gay marriage, and what we learned about this election and the changing demographics of this country should hopefully be enough to persuade us that the party is not doing particularly well right now.

Assuming we are in basic agreement here (and all parties have periods of being in disarray, the Republican party will recover)...

What I'd like to hear from you about is when you think this started. Many of you guys hate it when the left blames Bush for stuff, but I think this is one occasion where it would be appropriate for the right to blame Bush, or if not Bush himself, the state of the party in his tenure particularly in his second term, for the origins of this disarray. After all, it was out of these years when the Republican party thought it would be a good idea for Sarah Palin to be its VP (what was up with that?), for one...

How do you guys on the right feel about your party right now? Understand that it is in all of our interests regardless of political persuasion for both parties to not be in disarray, so let's keep this thread away from rants about the Democrats, and just focus on the Republicans. What is your prescription?
 
P Jan 24, 2013 05:29 AM
IMO: The 2008 election was a stinging rebuke of the entire Republican party. They picked a presidential candidate generally favored by independents and they lost despite that - lost both houses of Congress, and lost states and seats that "should" have been safe. Reeling from that, opposition to Democrats started to form outside the Republican party - the Tea Party movement. This was a real threat to very existence of the Republican party, so they had to absorb the Tea Party movement by any means necessary - which they did. The resulting grouping is not so much a party as a group of people unified only by their opposition to the Democratic party. They don't have an agenda of their one except to block and reverse any policy that is connected to the Democrats. The health care deal is a perfect example of this - the setup chosen is much less than the Democrats really wanted, and of a design first proposed by conservative groups, but the Republicans still hate it like the plague.

At the same time, the 2010 gerrymandering means that the GOP holds the House, and many of those seats are quite safe. Those individual members have no real reason to change their personal politics. All of this means that it is very hard to get a deal through Congress on anything substantive, because there is nothing the GOP wants more than to block whatever Obama tries to push - there is nothing he can give them in return for support.

What they need, quite frankly, is a leader. Someone with and issue and the charisma to gather the troops behind one banner to do something. They SHOULD be able to do that with the deficit issue, but the insane focus on avoiding anything resembling new taxes makes that impossible for now.
 
leekohler2 Jan 24, 2013 01:41 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by P (Post 4213537)
IMO: The 2008 election was a stinging rebuke of the entire Republican party. They picked a presidential candidate generally favored by independents and they lost despite that - lost both houses of Congress, and lost states and seats that "should" have been safe. Reeling from that, opposition to Democrats started to form outside the Republican party - the Tea Party movement. This was a real threat to very existence of the Republican party, so they had to absorb the Tea Party movement by any means necessary - which they did. The resulting grouping is not so much a party as a group of people unified only by their opposition to the Democratic party. They don't have an agenda of their one except to block and reverse any policy that is connected to the Democrats. The health care deal is a perfect example of this - the setup chosen is much less than the Democrats really wanted, and of a design first proposed by conservative groups, but the Republicans still hate it like the plague.

At the same time, the 2010 gerrymandering means that the GOP holds the House, and many of those seats are quite safe. Those individual members have no real reason to change their personal politics. All of this means that it is very hard to get a deal through Congress on anything substantive, because there is nothing the GOP wants more than to block whatever Obama tries to push - there is nothing he can give them in return for support.

What they need, quite frankly, is a leader. Someone with and issue and the charisma to gather the troops behind one banner to do something. They SHOULD be able to do that with the deficit issue, but the insane focus on avoiding anything resembling new taxes makes that impossible for now.
At some point, they will have to realize that people aren't buying what they're selling. Otherwise, they're going to continue to be the minority.
 
besson3c Jan 24, 2013 11:35 PM
I guess we can add Bobby Jindal as another Republican with harsh words for his party:

Bobby Jindal: Republicans 'Might Need To Change Just About Everything'
 
OldManMac Jan 25, 2013 08:10 AM
I have a good friend who's a Republican die hard, and he honestly doesn't see what's happening in his own party. He's hanging on to his beliefs, and sees that the demographics of the country are changing, but fails to see why everyone doesn't think like he does. He's a fairly wealthy individual, who pays his employees a "good" wage of around $10/hour, and doesn't understand what they go through just to survive. He believes in the American myth that everyone has an equal chance, and that if they don't "make it" it's because they're lazy and don't work hard enough. He despises Obama (partly because he's black, which seems to be a common theme among many on the far right), and he occasionally emails me some of those political cartoons that are anti Democratic party, which point out "facts" about the so-called Socialist leanings of the party (and of course Obama), showing how little he understands of what a Socialist actually is. I don't see him often, but I've known him for over 50 years, and we keep in touch via phone every few months (he lives down South, and I in MI), and he always brings up politics in our calls, leading to some interesting discussions. He's obviously set in his ways, while I have changed my views over the years on a number of issues. I am firmly convinced, however, that it is a demographic issue, and wealthy older white people are having a terribly hard time realizing that their class is slowly losing control over the issues they've felt very comfortable with for a long time, and the only way they know how to deal with it is to dig their heels in, while wondering why no one sees things like they do.
 
BadKosh Jan 25, 2013 11:00 AM
I guess a dishonest media helped to keep all those democrat lies repeating.
 
subego Jan 25, 2013 01:03 PM
Wake up sheeple!
 
The Final Dakar Jan 25, 2013 01:11 PM
This thread is as overflowing with conservatives as expected. Apparently you can led a conservative to rancid water but you can't get him to drink.
 
besson3c Jan 25, 2013 01:17 PM
So Conservatives are horses?

It's no wonder they aren't here.
 
subego Jan 25, 2013 01:22 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by The Final Dakar (Post 4213745)
Apparently you can led a conservative
That's "lead", as in "fill you with hot lead".
 
The Final Dakar Jan 25, 2013 01:24 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by subego (Post 4213748)
That's "lead", as in "fill you with hot lead".
That's a typo, not raw stupidity.
 
Shaddim Jan 25, 2013 02:08 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by OldManMac (Post 4213713)
I have a good friend who's a Republican die hard, and he honestly doesn't see what's happening in his own party. He's hanging on to his beliefs, and sees that the demographics of the country are changing, but fails to see why everyone doesn't think like he does. He's a fairly wealthy individual, who pays his employees a "good" wage of around $10/hour, and doesn't understand what they go through just to survive.
10.00 isn't a living wage (though it's closer to being one here, compared to most places), and he probably doesn't pay for their benefits either. The folks who work for me are my friends, it's part of my responsibility to get to know them. When that happens, empathy forms, then you can't help but be aware of their needs and wants.
 
Shaddim Jan 25, 2013 02:09 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by The Final Dakar (Post 4213745)
This thread is as overflowing with conservatives as expected. Apparently you can led a conservative to rancid water but you can't get him to drink.
Most likely see this as a troll thread and are avoiding it.
 
The Final Dakar Jan 25, 2013 02:18 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by Shaddim (Post 4213763)
Most likely see this as a troll thread and are avoiding it.
In case you couldn't tell, I'm on the conservatives side on this one.
 
Shaddim Jan 25, 2013 03:30 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by The Final Dakar (Post 4213768)
In case you couldn't tell, I'm on the conservatives side on this one.
I was agreeing with you, but it didn't come out right.
 
Dork. Jan 26, 2013 09:47 AM
I think people seem to forget that the "tea party" concept started before Obama took office. The initial bailouts happened under Bush, after all. And there was some sentiment in the Republican party that Bush wasn't doing nearly enough to rein in spending, even before the bailouts happened. It may not have coalesced into a defined political movement until after Obama won the 2008 election, but the sentiment was there.

Recall that Ron Paul would not endorse either major party candidate in 2008, because he felt neither would make balancing the budget a priority. McCain was at risk to losing all those votes to third-party candidates. I think the Palin selection was McCain's way to "throw a bone" to the Republicans in that corner of the party, in an attempt to harness their enthusiasm toward his Presidential bid instead of off toward the Libertarian party.

And it's not true that the 2010 gerrymandering made lots of seats safe for incumbent Republicans. They may be seats that will not be Democratic anytime soon, but incumbent Republicans are in danger of losing their seats to a primary challenger who has a better relationship with theTea Party's well-funded PACs. So not only will the House stay Republican in spite of Congress's low approval ratings, but it will also shift further Right over time.
 
Wiskedjak Jan 26, 2013 10:29 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by BadKosh (Post 4213734)
I guess a dishonest media helped to keep all those democrat lies repeating.
Yup. it's always someone else's fault.
 
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