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The Final Dakar Apr 5, 2013 10:53 AM
Tonight we're going to party like its 1959!
Georgia high school to host first integrated prom | kvue.com Austin

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Students at one south Georgia high school share classrooms and sports fields; but, they don't share the same prom.

The school holds one prom for white students and another for students of color.
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The girls said if any race other than Caucasian tries to attend the white prom, that student would probably be escorted off the premises by police. That was the case last year when a biracial student was turned away by police.
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While having two separate dances, the school decided to elect only one pair for Homecoming king and queen for the first time this year.
Quanesha Wallace won.

...

But nothing changed. Quanesha wasn’t invited to the white Homecoming dance. In fact, the pair took separate photos for the school yearbook.
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So the girls decided to take matters into their own hands. They’re organizing a prom for everyone to attend. But, not everyone is fond of the idea.

Some of the posters for the integrated prom that were hung up have been ripped to the ground.
Jesus christ, I don't care if its legal, this is wrong, and frankly, embarrassing.
 
el chupacabra Apr 5, 2013 11:37 AM
For what it's worth this is their side of the story.

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WCHS is much like any other high school, where the homecoming king and queen are chosen by popular vote (and are allowed to have their picture made together, despite published reports to the contrary!). Most discipline problems relate to tardies and matters of the heart, and students see skin color through their parents’ eyes.

Recently the high school has received some negative publicity for hosting segregated proms, but that is simply not true. The high school does not host a prom at all, and groups of students who host private parties have referred to the parties as their proms. The school sytem has no influence over private parties, but we are encouraged by recent events.

Earlier in this school year, a group of ladies approached the Wilcox County Board of Education and the Superintendent to discuss their plans for hosting an “integrated prom.” The Board and Superintendent not only applauded the idea, but passed a resolution requesting that all activities involving WCS students be inclusive and non-discriminatory.

We support the efforts of these ladies, and we praise their efforts to bring our students together.

I am pleased to report that WCHS Principal Chad Davis has stated that his Leadership Team will place the 2014 Prom on its agenda for its next meeting.
Im curious how many people go to these schools and proms.
 
The Final Dakar Apr 5, 2013 11:50 AM
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The high school does not host a prom at all, and groups of students who host private parties have referred to the parties as their proms. The school sytem has no influence over private parties
This is not an accident. This is not coincidence.

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students see skin color through their parents’ eyes.
This is blame shifting.
 
subego Apr 5, 2013 12:00 PM
This school seems to have issues.

I was looking for info on last years "prom", and found allegations the school hired one black teacher, refused to give him any guidance, and then fired him (or tried to) for underperformance.

As an aside, funds to hire him came from program money the school got because of poor performance.
 
olePigeon Apr 5, 2013 03:54 PM
According to Wikipedia, Alabama, Arkansas, Georgia, Louisiana, Mississippi, South Carolina, and even Texas all have counties that still have segregated proms, it's just the Georgia is the most prevalent. There was one case of a high school in the north having a segregated prom, but that was back in 1920.

The U.S. Supreme Court ruled that having a "black" or "white" king, queen, or superlative was illegal. My favorite workaround is in Mississippi, where instead they label them "minority" and "majority" instead.
 
The Final Dakar Apr 5, 2013 03:56 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by olePigeon (Post 4224996)
According to Wikipedia, Alabama, Arkansas, Georgia, Louisiana, Mississippi, South Carolina, and even Texas all have counties that still have segregated proms, it's just the Georgia is the most prevalent.
I did not know this.

Quote, Originally Posted by olePigeon (Post 4224996)
The U.S. Supreme Court ruled that having a "black" or "white" king, queen, or superlative was illegal. My favorite workaround is in Mississippi, where instead they label them "minority" and "majority" instead.
Mississipi is the worst state in the union. I'm not even being biased. By most metrics, it consistently compares poorly with the rest of the US.


The biracial thing kills me though. One drop rule, still alive.
 
OAW Apr 5, 2013 05:23 PM
The proms in these areas are sponsored by private groups (generally organized by the parents) to get around the fact that were this done by the school itself it would be patently illegal. I suspect these relics are more the result of the mentality of the parents than the students. :hmm:

OAW
 
The Final Dakar Apr 5, 2013 05:31 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by OAW (Post 4225010)
The proms in these areas are sponsored by private groups (generally organized by the parents) to get around the fact that were this done by the school itself it would be patently illegal.
I think that's pretty clear.

Quote, Originally Posted by OAW (Post 4225010)
I suspect these relics are more the result of the mentality of the parents than the students. :hmm:
It's been like 45 years since integration. The original racists are two generations removed but this is still happening. It's taking a long-ass time for evolution to run its course here.
 
mattyb Apr 5, 2013 05:46 PM
Waiting for a few lines from Rob about southern states ...
 
OAW Apr 5, 2013 06:23 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by The Final Dakar (Post 4225011)
It's been like 45 years since integration. The original racists are two generations removed but this is still happening. It's taking a long-ass time for evolution to run its course here.
You'd be surprised at how culturally ingrained things like that can be. Toss a little inertia on top and ... :hmm:

OAW
 
subego Apr 5, 2013 06:26 PM
Also remember, one of the big differences between the North and the South isn't really that the South is more racist, it's that they're more open about it.

I think, over time, this is slowly leading to less racist youth in the North.
 
mattyb Apr 5, 2013 06:39 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by The Final Dakar (Post 4225011)
It's taking a long-ass time for evolution to run its course here.
Isn't evolution banned in those states?
 
Uncle Skeleton Apr 5, 2013 08:51 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by The Final Dakar (Post 4225011)
It's been like 45 years since integration. The original racists are two generations removed but this is still happening. It's taking a long-ass time for evolution to run its course here.
The skeptics predicted this: outlaw evolution and only outlaws will evolve. That's why the majority of law-abiders there never change.



:P
 
olePigeon Apr 6, 2013 09:44 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by mattyb (Post 4225022)
isn't evolution banned in those states?
zing!
 
Shaddim Apr 6, 2013 11:14 PM
So, it isn't a "prom" it's just a private dance? That does change the issue, not that some around here would notice.
 
mduell Apr 7, 2013 11:12 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by The Final Dakar (Post 4224903)
The school holds one prom for white students and another for students of color.
False, the school holds no prom. Some parents organize a private party during prom season.
 
OreoCookie Apr 7, 2013 09:39 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by Shaddim (Post 4225136)
So, it isn't a "prom" it's just a private dance? That does change the issue, not that some around here would notice.
Quote, Originally Posted by mduell (Post 4225151)
False, the school holds no prom. Some parents organize a private party during prom season.
That's not the issue. It's obvious that these prom dances are organized privately to do something that's not allowed if they were organized publicly: to keep the prom segregated. So that's the issue and it's legitimate to criticize. Even though I'm not sure there is anything you can do to force the opening of these dances to black students, the schools could still forbid posters advertising segregated dances and such.

As a side note: I'm not surprised by the story. My sister spent a year in Georgia and her first host family told her point-blank to »not fraternize with blacks«.
 
subego Apr 7, 2013 10:07 PM
I'm with Oreo, but damn it pisses me off when journalists **** up pertinent details.
 
OreoCookie Apr 7, 2013 10:56 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by subego (Post 4225187)
I'm with Oreo, but damn it pisses me off when journalists **** up pertinent details.
Especially if this detail can be made into an important element of the argument: if these private proms are held in lieu of an officially school-backed prom, but treated like an officially school-backed prom (e. g. by allowing promotion on school property and such), you could make an argument that this is a community-backed attempt to perpetuate elements of segregation in school life.
 
Shaddim Apr 8, 2013 12:09 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by OreoCookie (Post 4225184)
That's not the issue. It's obvious that these prom dances are organized privately to do something that's not allowed if they were organized publicly: to keep the prom segregated. So that's the issue and it's legitimate to criticize. Even though I'm not sure there is anything you can do to force the opening of these dances to black students, the schools could still forbid posters advertising segregated dances and such.

As a side note: I'm not surprised by the story. My sister spent a year in Georgia and her first host family told her point-blank to »not fraternize with blacks«.
Actually, it's private due to budgetary issues, many of the schools around here have done the same as an austerity measure. Wealthier private citizens have banded together to rent the local lodge, country club, or a hotel ballroom to aid the school system. Although this is a shitty thing to do, talking about being racist assholes, don't get overly emotional and read more into it than is actually there. As private citizens they can invite whomever they want, even if leaving out "mixed" couples is a clear case of d**chebaggery.
 
subego Apr 8, 2013 12:50 AM
If it was an austerity measure, I don't think the school would put having an integrated prom under consideration like they are.
 
OreoCookie Apr 8, 2013 01:45 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by Shaddim (Post 4225195)
Actually, it's private due to budgetary issues, many of the schools around here have done the same as an austerity measure. Wealthier private citizens have banded together to rent the local lodge, country club, or a hotel ballroom to aid the school system. Although this is a shitty thing to do, talking about being racist assholes, don't get overly emotional and read more into it than is actually there. As private citizens they can invite whomever they want, even if leaving out "mixed" couples is a clear case of d**chebaggery.
We cannot tell whether this particular prom has been privately organized due to budgetary or other concerns.

Again, to me the point is that this form of racism has endured so long is unacceptable and there are legitimate ways to oppose this as a school (forbidding any sort of ads or fund raising on school property would be one I can think of from the top of my head). Or, if they happened in the school gyms (like the two proms I've attended), then you can put a stop to that. Even if you cannot stop it, you don't need to endorse it or aid it in any way.
 
The Final Dakar Apr 8, 2013 10:04 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by mattyb (Post 4225022)
Isn't evolution banned in those states?
Zing!


Quote, Originally Posted by subego (Post 4225020)
Also remember, one of the big differences between the North and the South isn't really that the South is more racist, it's that they're more open about it.

I think, over time, this is slowly leading to less racist youth in the North.
You'll have to give me examples, maybe because I don't live in a city I don't see it, but I live in rural PA, so I get the more 'southern' racism. People in the north secretly want segregated proms?
 
The Final Dakar Apr 8, 2013 10:06 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by subego (Post 4225196)
If it was an austerity measure, I don't think the school would put having an integrated prom under consideration like they are.
If it was an austerity measure, that would imply there were school sponsored proms in the past which would have had to have been integrated. I'd like to see that proven.

They also had their first non-segregated homecoming voting? Maybe that's poor reporting as I would think the homecoming court is officially a school event and I can't see that having been legal all these years.
 
subego Apr 8, 2013 12:57 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by The Final Dakar (Post 4225225)
You'll have to give me examples, maybe because I don't live in a city I don't see it, but I live in rural PA, so I get the more 'southern' racism. People in the north secretly want segregated proms?
Since people are being secret about it, it's a little like looking for the Higgs boson. You can't see it, but you can see the effects.

In Chicago specifically, it's obvious in how segregated the whole city is. There are black neighborhoods, white neighborhoods, and Hispanic neighborhoods. There are a few mildly integrated places, but those are mostly "hipster" neighborhoods in mid-gentrification phase.

This spilled over into my high-school, though that's ancient history now. I went to the University of Chicago high school. Both the faculty and staff of UofC got discounts for their kids.

The faculty kids were mostly white, the staff kids were mostly black.

No one went around being "racist". We were at one of the strongest bastions of progressive thought, that would be pretty inconceivable.

But the cafeteria at lunch was divided by the hall going through it. Black kids on one side, white kids on the other. There would be (literally) only one or two people who crossed over. The blacks who did were universally the nerdy types. The whites who did were universally the basketball jock types.
 
subego Apr 8, 2013 01:39 PM
One of the best ways to get a serving of hidden racism is to get a cop drunk.

Black cops too. Every cop I've talked to says the job is color-blind when it comes to making you racist.
 
The Final Dakar Apr 8, 2013 01:55 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by subego (Post 4225254)
Since people are being secret about it, it's a little like looking for the Higgs boson. You can't see it, but you can see the effects.

In Chicago specifically, it's obvious in how segregated the whole city is. There are black neighborhoods, white neighborhoods, and Hispanic neighborhoods. There are a few mildly integrated places, but those are mostly "hipster" neighborhoods in mid-gentrification phase.
Isn't this also economic?

Quote, Originally Posted by subego (Post 4225254)
The faculty kids were mostly white, the staff kids were mostly black.
I've seen this at hospitals as well. Again, I think there's a strong economic component here. The set of qualifications for faculty vs. staff differs greatly, right?

Quote, Originally Posted by subego (Post 4225254)
But the cafeteria at lunch was divided by the hall going through it. Black kids on one side, white kids on the other. There would be (literally) only one or two people who crossed over. The blacks who did were universally the nerdy types. The whites who did were universally the basketball jock types.
Aren't you disproving it here? Here the groups are bound by interest with races crossing over due to shared interest.


Quote, Originally Posted by subego (Post 4225257)
One of the best ways to get a serving of hidden racism is to get a cop drunk.

Black cops too. Every cop I've talked to says the job is color-blind when it comes to making you racist.
Well this touches upon what I was going to address as far as subtle racism. And whether you would equate it with Southern racism 1 for 1. I think the North is just as prone to stereotypes, positive and negative. And of course that applies to profiling.

I'm sure we (Northerners) fall prey to stereotypes like blacks are better at athletics or we want to cross the street if we see a minority walking towards us later at night (doubly so depending on their method of dress). They probably wouldn't care if their children date a black man, but they sure would be awkward and uncomfortable with it.

Or perhaps racism is more prone to flow in the opposite direction in the north (i.e., betraying your race, uncle tom, etc.)

I guess where you would refer to Southern racism as open, I would say it is more aggressive.
 
subego Apr 8, 2013 02:23 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by The Final Dakar (Post 4225260)
I've seen this at hospitals as well. Again, I think there's a strong economic component here. The set of qualifications for faculty vs. staff differs greatly, right?
Absolutely. I wasn't trying to make a point out if this, it was just a explanation for my particular HS demographic makeup.


Quote, Originally Posted by The Final Dakar (Post 4225260)
Aren't you disproving it here? Here the groups are bound by interest with races crossing over due to shared interest.
I think what's important here is the percentage. We had about 400 students and maybe averaged about 4 crossovers.

Does the 1% disprove my point, or do the other 99% make it?
 
Shaddim Apr 8, 2013 02:25 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by subego (Post 4225196)
If it was an austerity measure, I don't think the school would put having an integrated prom under consideration like they are.
Likely to counter the bad press, perhaps falling back to having it in the gym so they can open it up for everyone.
 
The Final Dakar Apr 8, 2013 02:26 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by subego (Post 4225265)
I think what's important here is the percentage. We had about 400 students and maybe averaged about 4 crossovers.

Does the 1% disprove my point, or do the other 99% make it?
The point definitely goes into your favor then. And I am sure there's a chunk of racists on both sides. But I feel there has to be more at work then just "we don't like whites/blacks."
 
subego Apr 8, 2013 02:30 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by The Final Dakar (Post 4225260)
Well this touches upon what I was going to address as far as subtle racism. And whether you would equate it with Southern racism 1 for 1. I think the North is just as prone to stereotypes, positive and negative. And of course that applies to profiling.

I'm sure we (Northerners) fall prey to stereotypes like blacks are better at athletics or we want to cross the street if we see a minority walking towards us later at night (doubly so depending on their method of dress). They probably wouldn't care if their children date a black man, but they sure would be awkward and uncomfortable with it.

Or perhaps racism is more prone to flow in the opposite direction in the north (i.e., betraying your race, uncle tom, etc.)

I guess where you would refer to Southern racism as open, I would say it is more aggressive.
That's a fair statement.

Your example actually touches on exactly what I was thinking in terms of less aggressiveness having a slow effect.

My dad was uncomfortable with me dating a black woman, but none of that came out until I was well past my formative years. It actually surprised me.

Now, I probably won't have kids, but I'd be surprised if it would bother me if they dated outside their race.
 
Shaddim Apr 8, 2013 02:31 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by subego (Post 4225257)
One of the best ways to get a serving of hidden racism is to get a cop drunk.

Black cops too. Every cop I've talked to says the job is color-blind when it comes to making you racist.
I can attest to this, it really strains a person to stay objective after seeing certain behaviors. It isn't universal, so I fight to stay objective, but it's very far from proportional.
 
The Final Dakar Apr 8, 2013 02:35 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by subego (Post 4225268)
Your example actually touches on exactly what I was thinking in terms of less aggressiveness having a slow effect.
This confuses me. Slow effect on what? (I thought increased aggressiveness meant slow expiration of racism)

For all the talk I've heard about equality being forced upon the south, I have to wonder if forced integration isn't like eating your vegetables. Everyone may not like them, but a few will discover they aren't as bad as they seem.
 
subego Apr 8, 2013 02:38 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by The Final Dakar (Post 4225267)
The point definitely goes into your favor then. And I am sure there's a chunk of racists on both sides. But I feel there has to be more at work then just "we don't like whites/blacks."
You are absolutely right. Again, this was a pretty damn liberal school. We didn't dislike each other. There was never anything even remotely resembling a racial "incident". At least for the white half, these were the children of university professors.

But something threw up the division. It could have been affected by class, but it sure didn't feel like it was class (the other obvious differentiator).
 
The Final Dakar Apr 8, 2013 02:39 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by subego (Post 4225271)
You are absolutely right. Again, this was a pretty damn liberal school. We didn't dislike each other. There was never anything even remotely resembling a racial "incident". At least for the white half, these were the children of university professors.

But something threw up the division. It could have been affected by class, but it sure didn't feel like it was class (the other obvious differentiator).
This seems too simplistic, but given that its high school, the entire nature of the social structure is to look for differences to divide groups by. Skin color seems like an easy one, particularly for the more shallow or stupid.
 
subego Apr 8, 2013 02:39 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by The Final Dakar (Post 4225270)
This confuses me. Slow effect on what? (I thought increased aggressiveness meant slow expiration of racism)

For all the talk I've heard about equality being forced upon the south, I have to wonder if forced integration isn't like eating your vegetables. Everyone may not like them, but a few will discover they aren't as bad as they seem.
Sorry. A slow positive effect.
 
subego Apr 8, 2013 02:41 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by The Final Dakar (Post 4225272)
This seems too simplistic, but given that its high school, the entire nature of the social structure is too look for differences to divide groups by. That can't help.
The class differential?
 
The Final Dakar Apr 8, 2013 02:44 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by subego (Post 4225274)
The class differential?
Economic class, neighborhood, sports, clubs, style/hobbies (emo, hippy etc.), intelligence. Off the top of my head.
 
subego Apr 8, 2013 02:54 PM
Gotcha. Yup.
 
The Final Dakar Apr 15, 2013 10:28 AM
Spokesman: Gov. Deal Won't Comment on Wilcox Prom | 13wmaz.com

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By email, his spokesman, Brian Robinson, said Deal would have no response to a liberal group's call for state officials, including the governor to speak out.

He wrote, "This is a leftist front group for the state Democratic party and we're not going to lend a hand to their silly publicity stunt."

Better Georgia asked Deal and others "to publicly support the students of Wilcox County who are fighting to end a 'separate-but-equal' high school prom."

The group's release listed seven Georgia state representatives -- four Democrats, three Republicans -- who have reportedly issued statements of support for the Wilcox students.
 
olePigeon Apr 15, 2013 05:58 PM
Pretty much exactly the response I expected.
 
The Final Dakar May 3, 2013 01:17 PM
Forgot to post the coda: Segregated prom tradition yields to unity - CNN.com

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For as long as most remember, Wilcox County High School hasn't sponsored a prom for its 400 students. Instead, parents and their children organize their own private, off-site parties, known casually as white prom and black prom -- a vestige of racial segregation that still lives on.
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About 100 people came to the integrated prom, most of them from Wilcox County. Even more came for that other old tradition -- watching. There were fathers, grandmothers, curious onlookers, reporters, a gaggle of students from Atlanta, a local NAACP rep and Shirley Sherrod, the former U.S. Department of Agriculture official in Georgia who was smeared by a misleading video that showed her discussing race.
 
subego May 3, 2013 03:45 PM
Who needs a zoo when you have prom, right?
 
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