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-   -   FBI wiretaps AP (http://forums.macnn.com/95/political-war-lounge/500612/fbi-wiretaps-ap/)

 
Snow-i May 14, 2013 07:30 PM
FBI wiretaps AP
I considered combining this with the IRS corruption story, but i feel that this has enough gravity and implication to warrant it's own discussion.

I feel that if the Justice department had a plausible reason to monitor all of the AP's communications, they'd have offered it up by now. I find this deeply troubling as well, as a direct affront to the freedom of the press in the United States.

I'll ask the same questions for this potential case of corruption.

Who is ultimately accountable for this (probable) transgression against the people of the United States?

Do you feel that the Justice Department may have a reasonable explanation for monitoring the AP's communications?
 
reader50 May 14, 2013 07:42 PM
No worries, I'm sure it was the new Nightwatch division. Looking for dangerous traitors among the AP staff. Did you see how many anti-administration stories AP's been running?!?
 
ghporter May 15, 2013 07:00 AM
It is my understanding that what they got was "call records" rather than contents of calls. Outrageous no matter what, but not on the same order of outrageousness as actually listening in. The FBI says this was part of an ongoing investigation, but that is kind of fishy given that there is no really obvious connection among the journalists except that they are all AP people. Too many questions lingering about why and whom and such for my comfort level...
 
BLAZE_MkIV May 15, 2013 08:41 AM
Just because your talking to a journalist doesn't mean it's not a crime.
 
OldManMac May 15, 2013 11:38 AM
It's all tied to the current fears of Muslims, aka terrorists. When I was a child, in the 1950s, it was the Communists of the Soviet Union, and a lot of innocent people were persecuted. I remember practicing air raid drills in schools, and thinking how stupid it was to hide under a desk, as if that was going to protect us from a bomb. In the 1960s and 1970s, the Vietnam fiasco caused the deaths of over 50,000 American soldiers, as well as untold numbers of Vietnamese, again because of the Communists, whom the powers that be were certain they had to contain, so they wouldn't take over this country. The current enemy is the Muslim. The thing that ties these all together is that they think differently than we do, so they must bad, and need to be eliminated.
 
BadKosh May 15, 2013 12:24 PM
It's all tied to the lefts fear of being caught in all these scandals. OOOPS! Look at the other creepy things the Owebama Admin has admitted, just to change the subject from the hideous mess in Benghazi, and Hillary's lack of leadership.
 
subego May 15, 2013 12:37 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by Snow-i (Post 4230552)
Do you feel that the Justice Department may have a reasonable explanation for monitoring the AP's communications?
If they don't, we should get the Justice Department to look into it.
 
ebuddy May 16, 2013 07:14 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by BadKosh (Post 4230644)
It's all tied to the lefts fear of being caught in all these scandals. OOOPS! Look at the other creepy things the Owebama Admin has admitted, just to change the subject from the hideous mess in Benghazi, and Hillary's lack of leadership.
Actually... ^ this may be our winner! No matter what comes of this, the AP phone records were subpoenaed by the Justice Dept in accordance with law. A stretch in breadth? Sure, but nothing illegal. Unprecedented? Maybe, but then the AP's lack of regard for news this past several years is pretty damned unprecedented too afaic. This story is nothing more than a rabbit-hole and the only purpose it'll serve is to get eyeballs off the Benghazi problem, EPA, and IRS abuses.

What'd be truly a gem is if a different kind of "leaker" would now present the AP's records showing a coordinated effort to cover for this administration and/or demonize its detractors.
 
OAW May 16, 2013 01:34 PM
Quote
Senate Republicans have been outraged for months over the Obama administration's response to the Benghazi consulate attack. They're outraged this week about the Internal Revenue Service singling out tea party groups for extra scrutiny. But their response to the Justice Department secretly obtaining phone records of 20 Associated Press reporters? Meh.

Republican senators who have long been critics of Attorney General Eric Holder were noticeably muted on Tuesday when asked to respond to the news of the Justice Department seizing reporters' records as part of a broader probe into national security leaks.

"Well, I think we need to see how this plays out," said Sen. John Cornyn (R-Texas), one of Holder's biggest critics and who last year demanded that the attorney general resign amid the Fast and Furious gun-running probe. "I have questions about it, but I'm wiling to wait and see how this plays out, whether it was narrowly targeted or whether it was a net that was too broadly cast," Cornyn said.

"I want to see the details -- what was their rationale, why did they do it -- before offering an opinion," said Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), who earlier this week accused the administration of engaging in a "cover-up" in Benghazi. "For me, to rush to a judgment without knowing all the facts is just not appropriate."

Senate Republicans' reluctance to defend freedom of the press may stem their demands last year that Holder crack down on those behind national security leaks. Cornyn and McCain were among those leading the calls. Still, it was a rare reprieve for the administration when Republican leaders spoke to reporters on Tuesday and glossed over the Justice Department's potential constitutional violations.
Senate Republicans Not Outraged Over DOJ Raid On AP Records

Which only makes sense. It's kind of difficult for the GOP to go H.A.M. on the DOJ for aggressively investigating national security leaks like they demanded them to do. Then again, now that the Benghazi "nontroversy" has effectively shut down with the release of all the WH emails and President Obama is getting out in from of the IRS shenanigans before it spirals out of control ... you never know. The GOP might try to go there with the AP phone records story. But of course, they'll have to deal with this ....

Quote, Originally Posted by Rep. Trey Gowdy
Why not send a subpoena to the reporter? Put them in front of a grand jury. You either answer a question or you’re going to be held in contempt and go to jail, which is what I thought all reporters aspire to anyway. I mean all of us aspire to be committee chairman. I thought that was the crown jewel in a reporter’s resume is to actually go to jail protecting a source. Give em what they want.
Rep Trey Gowdy - Reporters aspire to being thrown in jail | Youtube.com

:err:

OAW
 
lpkmckenna May 16, 2013 01:44 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by ebuddy (Post 4230784)
This story is nothing more than a rabbit-hole and the only purpose it'll serve is to get eyeballs off the Benghazi problem, EPA, and IRS abuses.
That sounds like the stupidest plan ever devised.

And the AP wiretapping is a much bigger concern than all those other issues combined. Journalists shouldn't live in fear that their government is spying on them.
 
ebuddy May 17, 2013 07:57 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by OAW (Post 4230840)
Which only makes sense. It's kind of difficult for the GOP to go H.A.M. on the DOJ for aggressively investigating national security leaks like they demanded them to do. Then again, now that the Benghazi "nontroversy" has effectively shut down with the release of all the WH emails and President Obama is getting out in from of the IRS shenanigans before it spirals out of control ... you never know. The GOP might try to go there with the AP phone records story. But of course, they'll have to deal with this ....
Couple quick things here as well;
A. The GOP is not shedding a tear for the disappearance of the fourth estate. They've been missing the past few years. All the Administration has to do is claim it acted in accordance with law and the story disappears. Eventually. The AP is pissed off, I get that, and they have good cause, but the grievance itself is a rabbit hole, and there will be no firings, no probes, no demotions, zip -- nada. All this story will do is serve to take eyeballs off all the other nontroversies popping up on a daily basis. I hope he continues to piss them off so we can finally get to the bottom of...

B. Benghazi is getting worse by the day with new failures leading to information on more failures, concealing prior failures, and more whistleblowers. This is going to get worse before it gets better. The emails... more shameless apologetics. You of course would be referring to the emails with first one dated; September 13th? :lol: eesh -- whatever happened to all the email correspondence over the first couple of days following the incident? You don't suppose some of them might cause problems for the Administration? C'mon man. BUT BUSH! isn't going to cut it any more man we're dealing with shit Bush would've been strung up for long ago.

C. The IRS scandal is getting worse by the day as information ties many more in than just a handful of underlings in Cincinnati. *Newsflash: Obama is not getting out in front of the shenanigans, he's sticking his foot in his mouth repeatedly (answering questions no one asked about the "IG Report" :lol:) and getting buried under it.
 
ebuddy May 17, 2013 08:02 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by lpkmckenna (Post 4230846)
That sounds like the stupidest plan ever devised.
I never claimed they were super-geniuses. Trust me, not so much as a demotion will come of this. It's a rabbit hole and the AP knows it.

Quote
And the AP wiretapping is a much bigger concern than all those other issues combined. Journalists shouldn't live in fear that their government is spying on them.
:lol: I say... come on in, the water's fine as long as you're not applying for 501 c4 status. The only thing a journalist interested in an exclusive these days would need to fear is his own editorial staff.
 
OAW May 17, 2013 10:06 AM
Quote, Originally Posted by ebuddy (Post 4230980)
B. Benghazi is getting worse by the day with new failures leading to information on more failures, concealing prior failures, and more whistleblowers. This is going to get worse before it gets better. The emails... more shameless apologetics. You of course would be referring to the emails with first one dated; September 13th? :lol: eesh -- whatever happened to all the email correspondence over the first couple of days following the incident? You don't suppose some of them might cause problems for the Administration? C'mon man. BUT BUSH! isn't going to cut it any more man we're dealing with shit Bush would've been strung up for long ago.
I'll elaborate more later. Too hard to type on an iPhone can we get a freaking proper mobile site already? Jeez!!! Anyway, this will have to do for now. The GOP is cold busted leaking the Benghazi emails and lying about what they said to gin this "nontroversy" up any further. This so-called scandal only exists in the minds of the most willfully obtuse GOP now. It's on the "Manchurian candidate, Kenyan born, secret Muslim" level now. :err:

It's Official: Those Bogus Email Leaks Came From Republicans It's Official: Those Bogus Email Leaks Came From Republicans | Mother Jones via @motherjones

OAW
 
BadKosh May 17, 2013 10:34 AM
So the Democrats are off the hook for everything because a REPUBLICAN leaked the incriminating emails?
 
OldManMac May 17, 2013 02:13 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by BadKosh (Post 4230996)
So the Democrats are off the hook for everything because a REPUBLICAN leaked the incriminating emails?
No, the Democrats are off the hook because the emails were tampered with, by Republicans. Do pay attention, and don't just pop in here periodically with your one line generalizations.

GOP Sources Altered Benghazi E-Mails To Suggest A Cover-Up, Reporter Confirms | ThinkProgress
 
OAW May 17, 2013 03:27 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by BadKosh (Post 4230996)
So the Democrats are off the hook for everything because a REPUBLICAN leaked the incriminating emails?
Looks like I'm going to have to spell it out for you. From the article I cited above ...

Quote
It's not as if we didn't know this already, but today Major Garrett made it official: last week's leaks that misquoted the Benghazi emails came directly from Republicans. Here's the report on the CBS Evening News:

Quote, Originally Posted by CBS News
On Friday, Republicans leaked what they said was a quote from Rhodes: "We must make sure that the talking points reflect all agency equities, including those of the State Department, and we don't want to undermine the FBI investigation. But it turns out that in the actual email, Rhodes did not mention the State Department.

....Republicans also provided what they said was a quote from an email written by State Department spokesman Victoria Nuland. The Republican version quotes Nuland discussing, "The penultimate point is a paragraph talking about all the previous warnings provided by the Agency (CIA) about al-Qaeda's presence and activities of al-Qaeda." The actual email from Nuland says: "The penultimate point could be abused by members to beat the State Department for not paying attention to Agency warnings."

The CIA agreed with the concerns raised by the State Department and revised the talking points to make them less specific than the CIA's original version, eliminating references to al Qaeda and affiliates and earlier security warnings. There is no evidence that the White House orchestrated the changes.
So here's what happened. Republicans in Congress saw copies of these emails two months ago and did nothing with them. It was obvious that they showed little more than routine interagency haggling. Then, riding high after last week's Benghazi hearings, someone got the bright idea of leaking two isolated tidbits and mischaracterizing them in an effort to make the State Department look bad. Apparently they figured it was a twofer: they could stick a shiv into the belly of the White House and they could then badger them to release the entire email chain, knowing they never would.

But it was typical GOP overreach. To their surprise, the White House took Republicans up on their demand to make the entire email chain public, thus making it clear to the press that they had been burned. And now reporters are letting us all know who was behind it.

This has always been the Republican Party's biggest risk with this stuff: that they don't know when to quit. On Benghazi, when it became obvious that they didn't have a smoking gun, they got desperate and tried to invent one. On the IRS, their problem is that Democrats are as outraged as they are. This will force them to make ever more outrageous accusations in an effort to find some way to draw a contrast. And on the AP phone records, they have to continually dance around the fact that they basically approve of subpoenas like this.

A sane party would take a deep breath and decide to move on to other things. But the tea partiers have the scent of blood now, and it's driving them crazy. Thus the spectacle of Michele Bachmann suggesting today that it's time to start impeachment proceedings.

The GOP's adults can't keep their lunatic fringe on a leash, which means it's only a matter of time until they make fools of themselves on all three of the pseudoscandals that are currently lighting up the airwaves. The Republicans have met the enemy, and it is them.
:shake:

OAW
 
cgc May 17, 2013 05:52 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by OldManMac (Post 4230636)
...The current enemy is the Muslim. The thing that ties these all together is that they think differently than we do, so they must bad, and need to be eliminated.
No, the VAST majority of terrorist attacks on Westerners is perpetrated by radical Muslims.
 
CRASH HARDDRIVE May 17, 2013 09:21 PM
I always notice the left tries to cover up for their beloved government by citing R vs. D bullcrap that's not even central to the main issues.

I could care less about the usual R vs D distraction bullcrap.

The real issues: why did the administration and State Dept. make up the whole line about the attacks being in response to some video (and going so far as to railroad some schlep video maker over it) Where did that whole line of bullcrap originate, and why? What did Obama do during any of this, and what orders did he give? Why has his admin been in cover-up mode since this went down? Why have attempts been made to silence embassy personel that contradict the administration's line of bullshit?

Obama's never answered those questions, just done his usual song and dance of "Who me? I don't know anything about it! I'm just the incompetent commander-in-chief, don't look at me!"

And he'll do the same with the AP scandal (Obama and Holder didn't know anything about it until they read it in the paper! The buck stops... wait what buck?) the IRS scandal and really, every act of corruption Obama and his gang of hacks are ever questioned about doing.

These things are really only 'scandals' in the sense that we know about them. If the full extent of the day-to-day corruption of this administration were known, we'd see this is just the tip of the iceberg. These are corrupt statist nitwits who believe they are entitled to do anything they want, cheerled by dunces who pray for an all-powerful totalitarian regime- just one they believe will give them handouts in the name of 'fairness'.
 
OAW May 17, 2013 10:44 PM
You know Crash if you actually bothered to follow the news you would know that there were demonstrations jumping off all over the Muslim world that day in response to that video. So the question now becomes ... why do you think the CIA should have thought Libya was different? I mean ... considering the fact that we had just helped these same people get rid of Qaddafi after all? :err:

OAW
 
cgc May 18, 2013 06:37 AM
It's funny that President Obama knew nothing about Benghazi, Hillary Clinton knew nothing about Benghazi, Eric Holder knew nothing about fast and Furious or the AP wiretap, the IRS Chief (forgot name) knew nothing about the IRS targeting people and organizations they disagree with. Does anyone know anything? I'm sick of the lack of accountability and passing the blame.
 
Chongo May 18, 2013 11:27 AM
 
ebuddy May 18, 2013 03:47 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by OAW (Post 4231099)
You know Crash if you actually bothered to follow the news you would know that there were demonstrations jumping off all over the Muslim world that day in response to that video. So the question now becomes ... why do you think the CIA should have thought Libya was different?
No, the real question is, in light of the fact that we already know the CIA thought differently about Libya, why did the White House have them scrub their initial report from what we knew, into what we didn't? There was no spontaneous outburst of rocket fire from a heated protest. We knew that wasn't the case, but that sure as hell was the narrative.

Quote
I mean ... considering the fact that we had just helped these same people get rid of Qaddafi after all? :err:
This is an excellent point. Why would you leave such a meager security presence in a country who's leader you've just ousted with tensions so hot the UK packed their bags months prior?
 
cgc May 18, 2013 06:02 PM
Quote, Originally Posted by Chongo (Post 4231117)
Yup. The Democrats are good at calling people names, using scare tactics, and calling fellow Americans "enemies."
 
ebuddy May 19, 2013 09:53 AM
Let's sum this up shall we?

All government; (R)s and (D)s are full of crap. They lie and kill people and steal and cause problems. The Administration fails to release any of the emails that would shed a light on the situation so Republicans make a few "stylistic" changes to the emails and Democrats jump on those changes to indict Republicans. Meanwhile, we get to sit back and watch all the folly of deceit unfold while realizing that these are the brains behind our organization; the folks who will be managing our health care.

YAYY!!! Bring on the government solutions to our problems, I can't wait!
 
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