[MacosNerd]

I'm surprised by this news story but it cements something that has been kicking around in my head for a little while.

There seems to be people jumping off the apple bandwagon perhaps because of the ubiquitousness of the ipod. We have artists and studios balking at apple either boycotting them outright or publicly grumbling about them. Then there's NBC who walked away from apple.

So with increased competition, monopoly concerns, various government's suing apple for keeping the ipod/itms closed off apple's strong arm approach to dealing with the studios. Do you see a growing groundswell of anti-apple/anti-ipod movement continuing and how do you see this affecting future apple sales/growth?

[Big Mac]

FUD. Are you a troll?

[Dakarʒ]

A rose that kept its Bloom for 6 years. We should all be so lucky.

[MacosNerd]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

FUD. Are you a troll?

No are you a blinded zealot who thinks apple can do no wrong?

The fact remains the zune outsold the ipod, I've read news stories about governments suing apple because of itms. NBC walked away from apple. So how is this fud.

I'm interested in light of all of these various factors whether people think that the ipod will have a harder time, will it lose market share. what people think of all of these factors

Edit: I own the 160g ipod classic and I love it. The iPod looks great, works great and does what I want it too. The zune is ugly and I have no desire to own it

[xi_hyperon]

When did the zune outsell the iPod?

[MacosNerd]

Originally Posted by xi_hyperon 

When did the zune outsell the iPod?

Helps if I link to the story
iPodNN | Zune trumps iPod as Amazon.com's top seller

[starman]

Nerd has a point. Yes, there does seem to be a lot of anti-Apple sentiments from the studio side lately. It's still way too early to tell, but considering how well the studios are treating their writers, I don't think they're making a very smart decision.

hulu was supposed to be the end-all, be-all, but that's getting a lot of ridicule as of late.

I honestly think that studios are the last people to really "get it". They saw a revenue stream from the iTMS and said "we're not making enough, we can do better" and walked away. I don't see them doing better in ANY of the other online arenas at all.

[RAILhead]

The OP failed to notice that 9 out of the top 25 sellers were iPods, while only 2 of the top 25 were Zunes.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by RAILhead 

The OP failed to notice that 9 out of the top 25 sellers were iPods, while only 2 of the top 25 were Zunes.

Not to mention that the Zune was selling for $120 BELOW its original retail price, and less than a 4GB Nano.

[MacosNerd]

Originally Posted by RAILhead 

The OP failed to notice that 9 out of the top 25 sellers were iPods, while only 2 of the top 25 were Zunes.

No I didn't, my point is not whether the zune outsells all of the ipods but rather, in light of the pressures against apple, is the bloom off the rose.

You do have a serious contender with microsoft, and they rarely play fair. You have universal studios that complains about the amount apple is charging. You have NBC who has bolted from the stable, you have various european nations suing or grumbling against apple because of itms being closed.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by Dakarʒ 

A rose that kept its Bloom for 6 years. We should all be so lucky.

How poetic.

[shifuimam]

Originally Posted by MacosNerd 

So with increased competition, monopoly concerns, various government's suing apple for keeping the ipod/itms closed off apple's strong arm approach to dealing with the studios. Do you see a growing groundswell of anti-apple/anti-ipod movement continuing and how do you see this affecting future apple sales/growth?

I think that there's two major reasons why the iPod market isn't going to die down anytime soon:

(1) There are far, far too many people out there who already have a ton of accessories that are iPod only. I only have one iPod (60GB Photo), but I've got the iLuv alarm clock, three chargers, two docks, and a ton of cables. I don't have any music in Apple's proprietary format - I convert all my stuff to MP3 so that I can switch to another player, should I ever choose to.

(2) The iPod is still the coolest one to own. It's much more common now, obviously, but people are simply more likely to buy one. There are more accessories for the iPod than any other PMP. It's turned into the Windows of the PMP world, IMO. There's good competition out there, but the ubiquity of the iPod is what's going to keep it going strong for awhile.

Other PMPs are picking up momentum (the Sansa line, the Zune, Creative's stuff), but it would be a long while before any of them came even close to equalling iPod sales, let alone surpassing the iPod.

[Big Mac]

I also don't know if Amazon sales ranks mean all that much. When Leopard came out it was numbere one, and something like 6 Mac software titles were also in Amazon's top ten.

[Dakarʒ]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

How poetic.

Sex?

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by Dakarʒ 

Sex?

Yeah.

[Dakarʒ]

Finally, poetry comes through in the clutch.
an internet forum.

[Person Man]

Originally Posted by MacosNerd 

No I didn't, my point is not whether the zune outsells all of the ipods but rather, in light of the pressures against apple, is the bloom off the rose.

I don't think the "bloom is off the rose."

Most of what I see is the result of greed. The studios/record labels are getting greedy and are trying to bite the hand that feeds them. They are the reason that Europe is grumbling.

Some studios are starting to see the light... i.e. EMI. The others will come around once they realize the grass isn't greener on the other side of the fence or will become increasingly irrelevant as public opinion continues to turn against their business models.

Originally Posted by MacosNerd

No are you a blinded zealot who thinks apple can do no wrong?

Unless this is a new nick, you most likely weren't around when Apple announced the change to Intel. If you had been, you NEVER would have asked Big Mac that question.

[iLikebeer]

after all these bad cliches, how about an almost car analogy?

comparing ipods to zunes isn't the same as arguing which is better out of bmw/mercedes/jaguar/etc...it's comparing a car to a horse. no one wants a horse, everyone drives cars.

no one wants a zune, everyone listens to ipods the same way we drink coke, xerox copies, grab a kleenex and all that. ipods define personal music players, they're not going anywhere for a long time.

[mduell]

When Apple gets too greedy the governments (Norway/France/etc) start investigating and or forcing them to change the way they do business, the environmental (Greenpeace/etc) groups criticize them publicly, and their business partners walk away from them (studios/labels/etc). Is anyone surprised? Replace 'Apple' with any other large company and the sentence is just as true.

[dcmacdaddy]

Is the bloom off the rose for the iPod? Yes!
Does this mean the iPod will stop being the #1 portable music player? No. Not by a long shot!

I think it has been shown already that Apple is losing some market-share to MS and Creative. But it still holds more than 70% of the market for portable music players. I do think, though, that long-term Apple will have to address the issue of a "closed" platform vis-a-vis Itunes and the ITMS only working with Apple music players; That seems to me the only possible flaw in their business model. But, I am comfortable waiting to see what changes are ahead for the industry. I don't foresee Apple losing its dominant position in this market, ever.

[SirCastor]

There are likely many products on the market that are better than the iPod. I haven't used a Zune long enough to make a conclusion, but I've heard that it's a pretty good unit.

The iPod has staying power because it got popular at just the right time. The iTMS is popular because it was the first service to do it the way it should've been done, and the iPod was popular.

I think Record companies and production studios are waiting to see what happens to NBC, and with Hulu, Amazon, etc. They know there's money to be had in the online market, but they're unsatisfied with the way that it's played out. Obviously, they want it on their terms, and the consumer (in general) is sick of those terms. It'll be interesting to see how it plays out.
My prediction though, is that it will bomb. Hulu might succeed, but the music buying public has become familiar with the idea that a song should cost a dollar. Not more. Music companies will say that piracy destroyed the internet market before it was on it's feet.

[OldManMac]

Apple has sold 120 million iPods, and still sells around ten million a quarter. Apple is now the #3 PC vendor in the States, and in its last quarter sold over 2 million Macs, for the first time ever. Go to any Apple store, watch the traffic and see how many Macs are sold to switchers, and you'll quickly see how utterly unfounded the OP's concerns are. NBC walking away from Macs does not stop the universe from turning.

[SirCastor]

I imagine the NBC bigwigs feel like they've dealt a terrible blow to Apple

[MacosNerd]

Originally Posted by iLikebeer 

no one wants a zune, everyone listens to ipods the same way we drink coke, xerox copies, grab a kleenex and all that. ipods define personal music players, they're not going anywhere for a long time.

I disagree with that sentiment. If nobody wanted the zune, then it wouldn't be selling. Now I'm no zune apologist but lets keep the discussion in the realms of reality. Then there's universal where I read was looking to open up its music for free to the subscription models in a bid to unseat Apple. If you recall universal gets a cut of each zune sold.

[SirCastor]

The iPod will probably be like Windows in many respects. Regardless of reality, or how well the competition is doing, the iPod will always always always occupy 80% of the market (or whatever the figure is.)
No matter how the mac does, to most people it will only ever hold 3% of computer market share.

[MacosNerd]

True

Apple has done a great job and continuing to innovate and keep the ipod a cool product. The moment they start resting on their laurels is the day that the competitors gain an advantage however

[chabig]

The iPod and its software has been, is, and will continue to be generations ahead of Zune. Ask your question again when that changes.

[OldManMac]

Yes, the bloom is definitely off the rose, and the Zune is going to kill the iPod.

MacNN | Apple to sell up to 25m iPods in Dec quarter

[MacosNerd]

Originally Posted by OldManMac 

Yes, the bloom is definitely off the rose, and the Zune is going to kill the iPod.

Well if you took the time to read my posts I never said the zune was going to kill the ipod.

[OldManMac]

Originally Posted by MacosNerd 

Well if you took the time to read my posts I never said the zune was going to kill the ipod.

And if you took the time to check into reality, you'd see that the bloom is far from off the rose for Apple, and that your isolated incidents don't extrapolate out to reality.

[Aquataris]

I laugh at Zune commercials, or atleast gag, when I see that stupid large font imposed menu they so proudly display. I don't see why they think it should be there or even be a focus point. From what I've seen of them, they are imitations of what have already been done before and the button layout is incredibly dumb looking. The name is also absolutely awful and looks stupider written out then how it sounds when said; which BTW will end up helping it stay a distant second place because I dare you to find any "gangsta" or little pop princess who wants to say "I've just been listening to my Zune all day." The image and name will hurt it. Afterall, 70% of the popular artists out there are name-dropping the iPod or wearing one on their album booklets or posters. That's just the tip of an iceberg sized anti-Zune rant I could cook up but I'll cut it off there.

As for the story about Zune topping iPod on Amazon... IT'S CHRISTMAS TIME! Parents and grandparents are swarming anything that looks like an iPod and are looking for the absolute cheapest price tag. I know this because I am constantly asked at Target by older shoppers or unknowing moms and dads if their is "a toy version of iPods for my son/daughter that costs less than the ones in the electronics department."

And if anybody wants to call me a zealot or an MS hater, they can, I don't care. Because I will admit right now that nothing Microsoft has done in the past... um... 8 years has appealed to me at all; especially that damn Zune.

[JoshuaZ]

I can say for a fact that I see my japanese students in school with iPod (how bad of them). I see people on trains and buses with iPods and MD players. No where in japan have I seen someone with a Zune.

Seeing how Apple beat Sony at the mp3 player game on their own turf, I'd say the iPod is going strong. (And Apple computers too! Japan is finally catching the Apple wave!!!!! Now all we need over here is an iPhone. Trust me. There is demand. Japanese phones are rather "high tech", but none of them come close to the iPhone. )

[Aquataris]

That's another thing I forgot to mention, I have never once seen a Zune anywhere outside of a store display.

[lavar78]

Originally Posted by dcmacdaddy 

I think it has been shown already that Apple is losing some market-share to MS and Creative. But it still holds more than 70% of the market for portable music players. I do think, though, that long-term Apple will have to address the issue of a "closed" platform vis-a-vis Itunes and the ITMS only working with Apple music players; That seems to me the only possible flaw in their business model.

But is that even true now? Any music player that supports AAC should be able to play iTunes Plus files, right?

[MacosNerd]

Originally Posted by OldManMac 

And if you took the time to check into reality, you'd see that the bloom is far from off the rose for Apple, and that your isolated incidents don't extrapolate out to reality.

I don't see it that way, you have governments looking to force apple to open up itms. There's now one or a couple of class action suits for the same thing. You do have the zune sales increasing no matter how you want to bury your head in the sand. The competition to the ipod has increased, and which isn't neccessairly bad but it means apple cannot make any miscues.

What happens if the whole subscription model gains traction, or another studio pulls a NBC.

There's so many isolated incidents, they do extrapolate to the fact that apple's market share has shrunk and could continue to erode if they're not careful.

[OldManMac]

Originally Posted by MacosNerd 

I don't see it that way, you have governments looking to force apple to open up itms. There's now one or a couple of class action suits for the same thing. You do have the zune sales increasing no matter how you want to bury your head in the sand. The competition to the ipod has increased, and which isn't neccessairly bad but it means apple cannot make any miscues.

What happens if the whole subscription model gains traction, or another studio pulls a NBC.

There's so many isolated incidents, they do extrapolate to the fact that apple's market share has shrunk and could continue to erode if they're not careful.

Okay, you win. You obviously know something about Apple sales that no one else does.

[chabig]

Of course Zune sales are increasing. They started at zero.

[MacosNerd]

Originally Posted by chabig 

Of course Zune sales are increasing. They started at zero.

Good point

Hopefully they stay close to zero too.

[chabig]

Originally Posted by MacosNerd 

What happens if the whole subscription model gains traction

You mean like PlaysForSure?

[TETENAL]

Originally Posted by JoshuaZ 

No where in japan have I seen someone with a Zune.

That's hardly a surprise. The Zune is not sold in Japan. Or anywhere else in the world except the USA.

[Stogieman]

The only reason the Zune is outselling the iPod at Amazon right now is due to price. A 30GB 1st gen Zune at $99 is hard to pass up (even if it is brown). Once Microsoft clears out its remaining inventory of 1st gen Zunes, you'll see the iPod in the top spot again. FYI, the only second gen Zune listed in the top 25 is the black 80GB. It is currently at #21.

[chabig]

"Sold" is such a strong word. "Accidentally purchased" is more accurate.