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Big Mac · Apr 24, 2007, 02:30 PM

Discuss: The Apple Menu should contain a Home directory submenu.

Dakarʒ · Apr 24, 2007, 02:33 PM

Isn't that something Fruitmenu can already do for you?

Yes, it makes sense

brokenjago · Apr 24, 2007, 02:43 PM

Why should it have a home directory submenu?

Dakarʒ · Apr 24, 2007, 02:47 PM

Probably to quickly access file/folders. Though it could seem redundant if you use the dock for such a thing.

analogika · Apr 24, 2007, 05:33 PM

Why should the Apple menu, which is the global menu, contain Finder shortcuts?

lpkmckenna · Apr 24, 2007, 05:41 PM

Originally Posted by analogika

Why should the Apple menu, which is the global menu, contain Finder shortcuts?

Hey, a switcher!

Chuckit · Apr 24, 2007, 05:46 PM

Learn2Dock, n00b

Big Mac · Apr 24, 2007, 06:09 PM

Originally Posted by analogika

Why should the Apple menu, which is the global menu, contain Finder shortcuts?

Good point, but then shouldn't you also chuck the Recent Items submenu because it's populated by the Finder?

I use the Dock, but I doubt many newbie users know of the feature or the fact that right clicking on a Dock folder opens a menu. If users don't see an easy way to access their Home folders, they'll be less inclined to organize their files properly.

brokenjago · Apr 24, 2007, 06:16 PM

I was actually going to mention chucking the recent items menu too.

Big Mac · Apr 24, 2007, 06:23 PM

Okay, but then where would you put it?

brokenjago · Apr 24, 2007, 06:27 PM

I would just get rid of it completely. I don't use it and don't know of anyone who does.

If it had to be somewhere, maybe the finder sidebar.

Big Mac · Apr 24, 2007, 06:32 PM

I use it.

brokenjago · Apr 24, 2007, 06:35 PM

Well, you just had to go and spoil my party, didn't you?!?!

Chuckit · Apr 24, 2007, 06:55 PM

Originally Posted by Big Mac

Good point, but then shouldn't you also chuck the Recent Items submenu because it's populated by the Finder?

The Recent Items menu doesn't duplicate the Finder's functionality — it isn't a file browser. Not exactly the same thing.

Big Mac · Apr 24, 2007, 07:00 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

The Recent Items menu doesn't duplicate the Finder's functionality — it isn't a file browser. Not exactly the same thing.

A Home submenu wouldn't duplicate Finder functionality. It would duplicate Dock functionality - optional Dock functionality that only a small portion of users take advantage of.

scattered · Apr 24, 2007, 07:14 PM

Why not put it in the Go menu since it already has a link to Home?

monkeybrain · Apr 24, 2007, 10:25 PM

You'll all hate me, but I actually think Apple needs to bring back the old style Apple menu or even better transfer it to the Dock. I believe that finding applications is still too complex for new users. If you install a program on Windows they have that little message in the start menu to tell you it's new. For Mac users, we need to open the Finder and navigate to the Applications folder and then find it. There's a good chance the new user will forget, or may not even know how, to add the app to the Dock, so they will repeat this long procedure again.

Either Apple needs to redesign the Dock or include a decent introduction system on the computer - I mean when the new user boots the computer a visual walkthrough is provided to explain this common procedure, same goes for installing apps from disk images too, and uninstalling them.

As to the original suggestion, I think the Go menu in the Apple menu is a good idea, who uses it in the Finder anyway? Better yet, make it part of the Dock, it's a bigger target. I use Overflow to achieve a similar effect (I also use Butler for more advanced type-and-find launching functions, but new users can't be expected to use that method).

mac128k-1984 · Apr 25, 2007, 08:06 AM

I wouldn't mind bringing back the old apple menu functionality.

P · Apr 25, 2007, 09:05 AM

The Apple menu is now a system menu. The original Apple menu feature - Desk Accessories - has been filled by the Dashboard. When people are asking for "the old Apple menu back", they're really asking for the nineties shortcut menu, which wasn't there in the original design and was really a rather quirky feature that was sort of in the wrong place. The Dock got a lot of heat at first, but it has actually been both improved (it is now infinitely high, for instance) and complemented (Dashboard, Menu Extras) to the point where it does its main function - app switching - very well. Don't move that to a menu that was never meant for it and that hasn't done it in years.

In my opinion, defaults are everything. Apple should put the Applications folder in the Dock by default, but let people remove it if they wish. To the newbie, it's a start menu. Do the same with the Recent * menus - make them folders (like they were in OS 9) and let people put them where they wish. I'd put mine in the Dock.

Files should probably be accessed from the Desktop rather than the dock, so load up the Desktop with shortcuts to the Home directory and what not might be interesting.

monkeybrain · Apr 25, 2007, 10:43 AM

Originally Posted by P

In my opinion, defaults are everything. Apple should put the Applications folder in the Dock by default, but let people remove it if they wish. To the newbie, it's a start menu. Do the same with the Recent * menus - make them folders (like they were in OS 9) and let people put them where they wish. I'd put mine in the Dock.

I think they are some really good points. Apple is terrible at default settings - aren't tab still off by default in Safari? How is a new user going to discover that?

The idea for the recent items is good too. I actually created a smart folder in the Finder to show recent items but find I never use it because it is too slow (on a Macbook), even if it takes one second that is slower than the normal recent items menu. Plus you can't put a smart folder into the Dock, why?

dru · Apr 25, 2007, 04:35 PM

Originally Posted by monkeybrain

Plus you can't put a smart folder into the Dock, why?

Sure you can. In the Finder use Go -> Go to Folder and type in " ~/Library/Saved Searches" then drag the desired Smart Folder(s) to the dock.

It doesn't act like a Folder, though. You won't see live contents in the context menu.

MacBurg · Apr 26, 2007, 07:44 AM

Originally Posted by Big Mac

I use the Dock, but I doubt many newbie users know of the feature or the fact that right clicking on a Dock folder opens a menu. If users don't see an easy way to access their Home folders, they'll be less inclined to organize their files properly.

I also have a few folders in the dock, one named "Extra Apps" where I have a few applications that I use infrequently, but want fast access to, another being "Photography" which is a major folder containing all my work. Also rather than ctrl + clicking on the folder to activate the menu, you can just click and hold, 1 second later the menu pops up.

Kerrigan · Apr 26, 2007, 01:44 PM

I would like to see a "Make $$$ Refer a Friend 2 Mac" link in the Apple menu

analogika · Apr 26, 2007, 02:01 PM

Originally Posted by monkeybrain

I think they are some really good points. Apple is terrible at default settings - aren't tab still off by default in Safari? How is a new user going to discover that?

He will immediately discover it the second he starts looking for it.

Apple absolutely excels at keeping stuff as simple as possible, while adding complexity for those who desire or need it by making it available in consistently sensible places.

Big Mac · Apr 26, 2007, 02:11 PM

I don't really see why tabs are disabled. The only way to get one in Safari is to purposely create one.

Madrag · Apr 26, 2007, 02:14 PM

I use fruitmenu, and I'm happy
I leave the dock alone and only for the apps that are open, because the arrow indicator isn't good for telling which is open and which isn't (IMHO) and this way I also have a quicker view of how many and which apps are open; I seldom use the dock for storing apps (ie "keep in dock") ; sometimes I store some folders/docs...

Peter · Apr 26, 2007, 04:03 PM

Originally Posted by brokenjago

I would just get rid of it completely. I don't use it and don't know of anyone who does.

If it had to be somewhere, maybe the finder sidebar.

I use it.

Dakarʒ · Apr 26, 2007, 04:08 PM

Yeah, I fruitmenuized it so I don't have to use the dock or finder to access less-frequently-used apps.

Chuckit · Apr 26, 2007, 04:14 PM

How is the Apple Menu preferable to the Dock?

Dakarʒ · Apr 26, 2007, 04:17 PM

Personal preference?

lpkmckenna · Apr 26, 2007, 04:35 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

How is the Apple Menu preferable to the Dock?

This is gonna sound like nit-picking, but here goes: Because the Apple menu is on the left edge of the screen, sub-menus will always flow to the right. But with the Dock, folders must go on the right, so sub-menus randomly pop-up on either side. I find this behavior to be frustrating. If Apple were to allow folders on the left edge of the Dock, I'd be extremely happy.

Chuckit · Apr 26, 2007, 04:42 PM

Interesting. Have you tried moving the Dock to the left?

Dakarʒ · Apr 26, 2007, 04:44 PM

I wouldn't sacrifice usable screen width for better access to dock menus I rarely use.

analogika · Apr 26, 2007, 04:59 PM

Apple-Opt-D

lpkmckenna · Apr 26, 2007, 06:39 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Interesting. Have you tried moving the Dock to the left?

Yes. I hate it there. The bottom is the only natural spot for me.

P · Apr 27, 2007, 09:14 AM

I prefer the Dock on the right, and rather small. With a widescreen display, height is more important than width, and you also get the label nicely precisely to the side of the "right" icon. If you have it on the bottom, a long label will cover many icons - I don't like that.

Dakarʒ · Apr 27, 2007, 09:16 AM

Originally Posted by analogika

Apple-Opt-D

Or as I like to call it, lag.

Kevin · Apr 27, 2007, 09:20 AM

Actually Apple needs to work on better labels. The new ones are too obtrusive IMHO.

I know there are 3rd party work arounds.. but I don't like patching my system in such a way.

Madrag · Apr 27, 2007, 09:55 AM

about the labels, has anyone noticed that words that contain "p, q, g, etc" the lower part of the letter doesn't contain the shadow?

example:

Dakarʒ · Apr 27, 2007, 10:17 AM

Yes. For quite a while.

Madrag · Apr 27, 2007, 10:28 AM

why didn't I receive the notice?
Is there anything else you're hiding from me?

please don't tell me the apple menu doesn't come with the rainbow apple anymore!

Dakarʒ · Apr 27, 2007, 10:33 AM

*silence*

mdc · Apr 27, 2007, 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by monkeybrain

Either Apple needs to redesign the Dock or include a decent introduction system on the computer - I mean when the new user boots the computer a visual walkthrough is provided to explain this common procedure, same goes for installing apps from disk images too, and uninstalling them.

That's a good idea to include some sort introduction video, but how would they do it so as not to be annoying like the Windows "Take a tour of XP" bubble that pops up every single time you start a new install of windows, until you click it.

lpkmckenna · Apr 27, 2007, 02:22 PM

Originally Posted by Madrag

about the labels, has anyone noticed that words that contain "p, q, g, etc" the lower part of the letter doesn't contain the shadow?

example:

Aw crap, I didn't notice that before, and now I can't stop noticing.

pyrite · Apr 29, 2007, 09:04 PM

and i thought i was a detail person...

cgc · Apr 29, 2007, 10:26 PM

Press Apple-n and you'll open a new Finder window which you can set to open your Home directory.

CharlesS · Apr 29, 2007, 11:39 PM

Originally Posted by Big Mac

Good point, but then shouldn't you also chuck the Recent Items submenu because it's populated by the Finder?

Except that it isn't. If you open a document in any document-based app through its "Open..." menu item, thus not involving the Finder at all, the document will still end up in the Recent Documents menu. It works with Cocoa apps, Carbon apps, and even MS Word!

red rocket · Apr 30, 2007, 09:43 AM

Originally Posted by Madrag

about the labels, has anyone noticed that words that contain "p, q, g, etc" the lower part of the letter doesn't contain the shadow?

It's worse, the letters get cut off. Happens at any text size, regardless of Dock position.

And actually, this is irritating the fuck out of me. I used to think it was my fault, that I'd corrupted the system somehow, but to learn that this is the state that Apple are shipping the Dock in is a shocker.



They should hire Bob the Builder, maybe he'll fix it.

analogika · Apr 30, 2007, 11:47 AM

Originally Posted by Dakarʒ

Or as I like to call it, lag.

I wish it were!

Hiding the Dock would be far more useful to me if it had a settable pop-up delay. That way, it wouldn't continually block what I'm trying to do just because I accidentally overshot the scroll bar and hit the screen edge...

Dakarʒ · Apr 30, 2007, 11:51 AM

Originally Posted by analogika

I wish it were!

Hiding the Dock would be far more useful to me if it had a settable pop-up delay. That way, it wouldn't continually block what I'm trying to do just because I accidentally overshot the scroll bar and hit the screen edge...

I understand what you're saying (it's why I disable magnification on the dock a few times a year), but it still takes a moment. Plus, there's that momentary hesitation while you look for whatever icon you need.