[besson3c]

Just speaking in general terms here, I've seen this here, other forums, on IRC, IM group chat sessions, etc. Same ****, different pile.

1) Why people become mean when people share things that aren't considered new by the official internet authorities. I suppose that a prerequisite to posting is that we all sit down and tune in to the unwritten rules of what is new and exciting in the vast and expanding world of the internet? If they haven't kept up, we are given a free pass to jump all over this individual like a pack of rabid dogs?

2) Why several people feel that their time is extremely valuable and wasted when people post old content claiming to be news, when somebody doesn't search ahead of time, or if the content is misdirected and placed in the wrong area (for whatever reason). Even though their time is valuable, they feel the need to waste their time by stepping in and posting about the offending content, and often engage in time-wasting bickering. I don't understand why people don't feel like they have the capacity to simply ignore something like this and move right along... When will people learn that they can't micromanage the content they ingest in a public place like a chat room or forum to suit their sensibilities?

3) Intelligence is valued, but only up to a point. Intelligence seems to have an effect on the pecking order to some extent (and when you think about it, there are lots of wolf/gang-like tendencies prevalent within internet culture), but horrendous spelling and grammar doesn't matter. I find it odd that some people sit down and try to craft something that makes them seem intelligent (a rhetorical strategy, a thoughtful commentary, whatever), but don't worry about their spelling and grammar. Spelling and grammar just don't seem to matter, because I guess it isn't cool to worry about this sort of stuff. Yes, we all make some mistakes - I'm talking about the REALLY horrendous stuff that makes the writer seem no older than the seventh grade.

4) Why many people seem to have a secret fetish for being an authority figure, and if they aren't, act on these desires by policing other chat members using their non-mod/non-admin status. In real life, do these same people pull up beside drivers that have been speeding and ask to see their license and registration?


Anybody have any interesting theories which explain these phenomena? Anybody care to add anything to this list?

[wallinbl]

1) To state that this is old news is to say that you are more aware/cool/up to date than the person that posted it. It's a way of showing that you are better than this person. People may not realize or acknowledge this in themselves, but that's basically it. If you've heard about it already, what's the harm in keeping that to yourself? There isn't any harm other than losing the chance to show how much better you are because you already knew it.

2) Sometimes, this is a suitable response. If you were to duplicate a thread in this forum, it may be useful to point this out and get the second thread locked so that the subject is easier for everyone to follow. This of course requires that the new thread is sufficiently similar and is not designed to explore a different angle of the same topic, which is sometimes useful.

3) People really can't spell, and if spelling cofounds you, then you are probably at a complete loss for correct grammar. I don't understand what is so complicated about learning the language that you use every day. If the post is not your first language, then I grant you a free pass, and I appreciate your efforts to communicate in the language that the community has chosen to use.

4) Perhaps they are trying to demonstrate their ability to be a moderator in hopes that they will be made into one. They don't demand license and registration, but people certainly do snitch on other people over some rather minor issues.


It all boils down to serving yourself more than you attempt to serve others.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by wallinbl

It all boils down to serving yourself more than you attempt to serve others.

And, I might add, maintaining a persona that is completely contrary to how you'd carry yourself out in a face-to-face real life interaction with somebody.

[euchomai]

I also wonder why people respond in a superior attitude (the guys that act like that probably are the ones that get yelled at at work everyday). We all come to the stupid website to pass time, sometimes redundant threads still offer funny posts. It's not like this site is life or death.

[ghporter]

A lot of people get so caught up in their own perception of what's current in whatever they're participating in that they don't notice that this sort of "not new" stuff comes mostly from people that aren't as tied up in the forum. Or they forget that they were once newbies themselves-we all were (though I was a newbie for less time and long before anyone else...)

What bothers me most about this phenomenon is that some people will deliberately derail a useful and informative thread to point out that the OP has rocks in his head for not knowing instinctively something that actually takes months of experience to learn. And they think they're doing everyone a favor in their assertions, too. This is one of the problems moderators have: is it useful to point out that something is old and most people are already aware of the fix? And how do you manage the balance between boring the old users and informing the new ones? It ain't easy.

[wallinbl]

Originally Posted by besson3c

And, I might add, maintaining a persona that is completely contrary to how you'd carry yourself out in a face-to-face real life interaction with somebody.

I have toyed with the idea of using my real name on message boards as a way to keep myself honest. I do it on certain boards, but generally don't on the computer related boards. My username/nickname/whatever is pretty close to my name, so combined with my location, it's not difficult for someone that knows me to identify that it's me.

However, with employers reading blogs and Googling employees, perhaps I would be better to hide.

[Kevin]

I don't think most people complain about petty mistakes, or things people didn't mean to do.

People usually don't get annoying unless someone habitually does something over and over again even though they know they aren't supposed to. Then people as a whole start getting annoyed. It's not longer a rarity, and the "cuteness" wears off.

It's like running a joke into the ground. After awhile people start getting tired of it.

There are alot of things I would love to change about MacNN, but this isn't my forum. There are rules put down that I try my best not to purposably go against.

There are people that think however, that those rules should be bent for them because of some idealistic concept, or "just because" These people usually find themselves frustrated because they don't understand why things aren't changing the way they want them to.

Alot of these people think the forums should cater to their wants, desires, or needs. Laugh at their jokes, get their humor.

Rob is alot like this alot. That is why people get annoyed with him alot.

I used to be worse than I am now about it. But I have come to the conclusion that it's going to be run the way the mods want it to, no sense in going against the grain "just because"

It wont do any good, and all it will cause is further resentment and hostility on both sides.

So the moral? Follow the rules on the forums you are in, and everything will be JUST fine.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by wallinbl

2) Sometimes, this is a suitable response. If you were to duplicate a thread in this forum, it may be useful to point this out and get the second thread locked so that the subject is easier for everyone to follow. This of course requires that the new thread is sufficiently similar and is not designed to explore a different angle of the same topic, which is sometimes useful.

I agree that sometimes it is useful to clue people in to the rules, but in a very gentle way (preferably over private message). If you know somebody is well aware of the rules, then this cluing in is not necessary (see my #4)

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by ghporter

What bothers me most about this phenomenon is that some people will deliberately derail a useful and informative thread to point out that the OP has rocks in his head for not knowing instinctively something that actually takes months of experience to learn. And they think they're doing everyone a favor in their assertions, too. This is one of the problems moderators have: is it useful to point out that something is old and most people are already aware of the fix? And how do you manage the balance between boring the old users and informing the new ones? It ain't easy.

I would say by not assuming that the poster is an idiot. He/she will figure these sorts of things out, it isn't incredibly complex. And, the harm done is almost always virtually insignificant.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by besson3c

I agree that sometimes it is useful to clue people in to the rules, but in a very gentle way (preferably over private message). If you know somebody is well aware of the rules, then this cluing in is not necessary (see my #4)

If someone is aware of the rules, and is doing it regardless, obviously they need MORE clues.
So telling them more often should help.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Kevin

I don't think most people complain about petty mistakes, or things people didn't mean to do.

People usually don't get annoying unless someone habitually does something over and over again even though they know they aren't supposed to. Then people as a whole start getting annoyed. It's not longer a rarity, and the "cuteness" wears off.

It's like running a joke into the ground. After awhile people start getting tired of it.

There are alot of things I would love to change about MacNN, but this isn't my forum. There are rules put down that I try my best not to purposably go against.

There are people that think however, that those rules should be bent for them because of some idealistic concept, or "just because" These people usually find themselves frustrated because they don't understand why things aren't changing the way they want them to.

Alot of these people think the forums should cater to their wants, desires, or needs. Laugh at their jokes, get their humor.

Rob is alot like this alot. That is why people get annoyed with him alot.

I used to be worse than I am now about it. But I have come to the conclusion that it's going to be run the way the mods want it to, no sense in going against the grain "just because"

It wont do any good, and all it will cause is further resentment and hostility on both sides.

So the moral? Follow the rules on the forums you are in, and everything will be JUST fine.

Kevin, I honestly don't know where to start in responding to this, so I won't except to say that you are very heavily invested in this forum, and this has perhaps blinded you to the holes in these arguments. I've tried to point stuff out to you in the past in techniques ranging from gentle to aggressive, but you don't seem to take well to anything that smells like criticism, and seem to prefer just to deflect or mock.

So, I guess it's best to just let this one go.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Kevin

If someone is aware of the rules, and is doing it regardless, obviously they need MORE clues.
So telling them more often should help.

If by help you mean engage in petty conflict, sure.

It's like yelling at your mailman for forgetting to put the flag down on the mailbox.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by besson3c

Kevin, I honestly don't know where to start in responding to this, so I won't except to say that you are very heavily invested in this forum,

Well you can say that..

But I just post here in my VERY spare time. I really have no clue as to why you say these things Besson.

and this has perhaps blinded you to the holes in these arguments.

What holes? To follow the forum rules?

I've tried to point stuff out to you in the past in techniques ranging from gentle to aggressive, but you don't seem to take well to anything that smells like criticism, and seem to prefer just to deflect or mock.

So, I guess it's best to just let this one go.

That isn't true besson. Many times I have taken criticism well. The problem is besson you have an idea of what MacNN should be in your head. And you are getting pissed becasue the rules go against the idea.

And I have also tried to point things out to you. Why people are getting annoyed. You seem to resent it.

If by help you mean engage in petty conflict, sure.

It's like yelling at your mailman for forgetting to put the flag down on the mailbox.

If people would just stop breaking the rules on purpose, even when asked to quit by mods and forum users alike, that problem wouldn't exist.

What you are basically saying besson is, You want to be able to go and do what you want in the forum, regardless of the rules, without anyone saying anything to you.

[::maroma::]

This is a great thread that needed to be posted.

I came here quite a while ago and have seen a lot of things. I recently took a virtual vacation from MacNN Forums for roughly a year. When I came back I fully expected things to have changed quite a bit as far as the culture. I figured that the users would have gotten more experienced, less aggressive and less petty. But I found that things really didn't change at all. It was as if I had never taken a break.

I would love to write a good deal on this topic, but for the sake of my time here at work (I gotta do some work today), I'm going to offer my opinion as a very abbreviated version. I think that the reasons for the concerns you posted about originally all stem from one thing: the internet is anonymous. Once people realize this all of the standards that they live by in real life go out the window. They see that they have an opportunity to be someone that they really aren't. To most, this is irresistible. They just can't pass up this opportunity.

Put a bunch of these "false personas" together and we get the relative chaos that are internet forums. You get bravado, bickering, insults, elitism, etc. All these things are what most people don't get to act like in real life. So being able to do so anonymously is just plain irresistible for some.

I have a lot more to say on this subject, but no time to say it. I hope to come back and offer more later.

[wallinbl]

maroma,

Are you suggesting that this is how people really are, and that they hold back in real life due to embarrassment or ridicule? If your public self and your anonymous self are two different personalities, which one is your true self? My vote would have to go for the anonymous self because it's the only one that you're allowing to do the things you want to do.


But, it's more than anonymous - it lacks feeling. You can't imply or infer tone well in typed text, so quite often things are misinterpreted for better or for worse.

[IceEnclosure]

People are crazy.

Other forums, especially automotive forums are insane. Some of the people there are just out of control. Surely they're not so ridiculous in real life.

I also can't stand forums where typing/spelling like a retard is the norm.

[besson3c]

I'm not sure if I buy into the theory of anonymity allowing us to act out our inner desires, although it's an interesting theory, and probably applies to at least some people.

I think it's something more along the lines of allowing people the means to escape accountability for their actions and behavior. I've thought about some of the people that come across as among the most argumentative and surly here, and know that they have significant others. I simply can't imagine a significant other in real life being interested in turning every little thing into a debate as aggressively as they often make it in here.

I think the internet allows people the opportunity to vent and just spew whatever is on their mind, with little thought put into being accountable for what they are saying, the way they would in real life. If you offend somebody on the internet, it's not a big deal. In real life, we probably are more careful about offending complete strangers, and definitely careful with people we converse with on a regular basis. There is just some subject matter you don't approach with certain people in real life, right?

Perhaps we also take some cues from the blathering talking heads on talk shows like those seen on Fox, where heated conflict is the norm. I'd like to think that in real life, we approach some subject matter with more grace and civility than we do here. I'd like to think that when people reach a disagreement in a conversation in real life, they don't jump right at the person's jugular, calling them all sorts of names, pounding away at them like they would in here, etc.

Maybe I give people too much credit? It would be very interesting to study this further.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by IceEnclosure

People are crazy.

Other forums, especially automotive forums are insane. Some of the people there are just out of control. Surely they're not so ridiculous in real life.

I also can't stand forums where typing/spelling like a retard is the norm.

I'm glad I'm not alone. I'm honestly not judgmental about spelling, or some sort of picky spelling-bee cop or something, I just value intelligence as a virtue, and I wish people would realize that in order to truly sound intelligent they need to speak and/or write at least somewhat articulately.

I guess some people just aren't interested in being intelligent, and would rather revert to their more animal/emotionally immature instincts... e.g. "what are you? some sort of queer. U r gay. That sux." - you know, the teenager dirty Cheetos fingers Halo playing kind of talk...

I'm just not interested in being around nitwits, and hate when they expect people to cater to them, as if there is something wrong with wanting to be more.

Well, enough of that unfocused rant. Hopefully it will make sense to at least somebody!

[besson3c]

Can we get a Cubeoid rap about internet culture?

[ledzeppelin]

...

[Cubeoid]

Yo Yo..it's the Internet dude, Cubeoid comin' at ya...
Internet culture yo, it's a rapture
Wether on NN or some IM, I Cubeoid bring the masses to knees
people askin me about bees? Yo I think it's peas.

Internet culture, the last devide, we have besson3c, wdlove and blue sky!
all friends, all having fun, chatting on the internet, let's drink some rum.

Internet Culture yo, where do you fit in, are you in the zone
having some fun, eating pizza or wallowing in sin.

No sweat ya'll... it's the rhyme master Cubeoid, bringin you love
care and a little pizza, awesome times, truly awesome times...

Internet culture ya'll... it's our lives!

[Dark Helmet]

I've never seen someone spell "A lot" wrong that many times in a row

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

I've never seen someone spell "A lot" wrong that many times in a row

YOu mean like this?

Rob is alot like this alot. That is why people get annoyed with him alot.

Maybe Kevin is the diabolical alter ego of Salty? Instead of being bright and cheery, his bedside manner is not pleasant, and instead of saying "that said" all the time, he says "alot" and creates a lot of new paragraphs for new reason?


Yes, this post was sort of jerky, but it will probably be my last this year!

[Cubeoid]

Does Internet Culture have anything to do with delicious cheese pizza?

[The Godfather]

Originally Posted by besson3c

1) Why people become mean when people share things that aren't considered new by the official internet authorities. I suppose that a prerequisite to posting is that we all sit down and tune in to the unwritten rules of what is new and exciting in the vast and expanding world of the internet? If they haven't kept up, we are given a free pass to jump all over this individual like a pack of rabid dogs?

Badger, badger, badger! All your base are belong to us!

Are you feeling irritated yet?

[Cubeoid]

ring ring ring ring ring ring ring ring banana phone.

[ghporter]

While I believe that the anonymity of the Internet helps increase poor behavior, it's not "inner desires" so much as something like mob mentality that it potentiates. In discussion boards where there is no oversight, people tend to follow the bad examples-get into really juvenile, useless tit for tat sorts of idiocy without any real reason, while in boards where there is some supervision (i.e. "UserBob, you're going to be banned if you post that sort of drivel again." from a mod) then the mob mentality is reduced, if not eliminated.

And Cubeoid, can you PLEASE answer that stupid banana phone? The ringtone is driving me nuts!

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

I've never seen someone spell "A lot" wrong that many times in a row

Originally Posted by besson3c

Maybe Kevin

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaw *pets fanboys on teh heads*

BTW, you two just showed us a good example of the very thing besson was talking out against.

If you are going to preach in teh internet forums, atleast attempt to practice it in the same thread you are preaching in.

You just pwwned yourself.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by besson3c

YOu mean like this?



Maybe Kevin is the diabolical alter ego of Salty? Instead of being bright and cheery, his bedside manner is not pleasant, and instead of saying "that said" all the time, he says "alot" and creates a lot of new paragraphs for new reason?


Yes, this post was sort of jerky, but it will probably be my last this year!

"I find it odd that some people sit down and try to craft something that makes them seem intelligent (a rhetorical strategy, a thoughtful commentary, whatever), but don't worry about their spelling and grammar."

Getting reactions out of some people here is too easy. It's like shooting fish in a barrel half the time

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Getting reactions out of some people here is too easy. It's like shooting fish in a barrel half the time

I know, that's why you have such a vast ignore list.

BTW Marry Christmas.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by Kevin

I know, that's why you have such a vast ignore list.

BTW Marry Christmas.

What ignore list?!?!

[Pendergast]

Just speaking in general terms here, I've seen this here, other forums, on IRC, IM group chat sessions, etc. Same ****, different pile.

1) I think that communication is something that requires consideration of many parameters; age, degree of maturity, personal history, actual mindset, interpretation of the significance of the handle, etc. This is very difficult to theorize and come with a "final impression" of why those situations happen. A better question may be more in the order of "how come?" When you look at the history of a reply from the various people's involved in a discussion, their mindset, etc, you can see how complicated the context can be. Trying to understand conversations can be as difficult as trying to understand Life through television.

2) Fast media, good memories are in play. People want things fast, and now. Repetitions are wastes of time, as well as reminders. Doing research on a forum can be quite consuming, and people are generally lazy. Nevertheless, people want to communicate, because it creates a bound of some sort.

3) See my first point. Sometimes, people can be caught in the passion of the moment, so posting in a thread like this feels liek a chat transposed from a conversation that happens in the head of the participants.

4) Masks are great. In some circumstances, they enhance our self-perception and allow further projection of who we are, or who we think we are, or who we aspire to be.

But this is only my opinion.

I think the Internet opened something new in human relations by allowing a distortion of our self-perceptions, as well as created the opportunity to greater introspection for some individuals. The hability to lay down your thoughts and look back at them, for those who do that, of course, can be quite uplifting.

People stutter less on the Internet than in real life.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Railroader

What ignore list?!?!

Hey Rail, I got an idea. I am going to put you on my "ignore list" but will indirectly reply to your posts by replying to other posts in relation to yours.

That way, I can claim to have you on my ignore list, while responding to you at the same time!

Killer idea. I don't think ANYONE has thought of it.

[demograph68]

Originally Posted by Cubeoid

Does Internet Culture have anything to do with delicious cheese pizza?

No. No it does not. But it does have movies. What's better? I like both. Preferably a slice of olive topped pizza to go with my movie. Wanna stop by later? I live in Syracuse, New York. Let's rap together. Your friend, Robert.

[JoshuaZ]

Khaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan!