[marden]

Western Civilization in Trouble: Negligence & Self Loathing?

I heard Howard Bloom http://www.howardbloom.net/ talk on the radio about the danger of Iran and he said some very interesting things, some of which I'll share as we go along.

But one thing I believe I heard him say was that there are currently (by his estimation) three civilizations: Islamic, Chinese and Western.

And IIRC he said Western civilization is in big trouble because we neglect to take care of it and because we are attacking the only nation able to defend or sustain Western civilization, the USA.

Think about it, does the combination of our attacks on ourself as well as the attacks by others spell the end of Western Civilization?

[marden]

Howard Bloom Answers the Question:

Why The Iraqis Hate US

http://howardbloom.net/HtH/hth.swf

Loading this will take a while, but it's worth it. Flash, vocals and fun.

[Face Ache]

[dcmacdaddy]

Originally Posted by marden 

Western Civilization in Trouble: Negligence & Self Loathing?

I heard Howard Bloom http://www.howardbloom.net/ talk on the radio about the danger of Iran and he said some very interesting things, some of which I'll share as we go along.

But one thing I believe I heard him say was that there are currently (by his estimation) three civilizations: Islamic, Chinese and Western.

And IIRC he said Western civilization is in big trouble because we neglect to take care of it and because we are attacking the only nation able to defend or sustain Western civilization, the USA.

Think about it, does the combination of our attacks on ourself as well as the attacks by others spell the end of Western Civilization?

There have been many great civilizations throughout history that had a major influence but are now gone. Why do you think Western Civilization should be any different? Why do you assume Western Civilization should be around forever?

[Wiskedjak]

And, why do you think Western Civilization going away won't lead to something even better?

[Sky Captain]

The ones that can depend on themselves and not the suckling teet of the government will survive.

[SpaceMonkey]

Originally Posted by marden 

But one thing I believe I heard him say was that there are currently (by his estimation) three civilizations: Islamic, Chinese and Western.

I think you mean by Samuel Huntington's estimation, c.1993.

[marden]

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey 

I think you mean by Samuel Huntington's estimation, c.1993.

Huntington lists more than three civilizations. And as brilliant as Bloom is maybe I misheard him or maybe things have changed since the publication of Huntington's 1996 groundbreaking book.

[SpaceMonkey]

Originally Posted by marden 

Huntington lists more than three civilizations. And as brilliant as Bloom is maybe I misheard him or maybe things have changed since the publication of Huntington's 1996 groundbreaking book.

In his original formulation, and in the core of his later work, Huntington's only civilizations of real consequence are "Western," "Islam," and "Confucian."

[marden]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

And, why do you think Western Civilization going away won't lead to something even better?

And the question, "why not Sweden" is answered by the realization that the USA is the leading nation in Western civilization. It is the only nation that can defend it.

Because this civilization still hasn't fully developed and because the technology we all love so much has been made NOT by the Islamic civilization which yearns to live in the 9th Century, nor has the Chinese civilization lead in the areas that the West has I think it is only prudent that we maintain what we have and what is relevant and vital without calling it trash and suggesting it be replaced.

Anyone who watched Fox News' presentation of "Obsession" will understand that Islamic radicals, maybe 200 Million of them around the world, dearly want to get rid of the Western civilization and every democracy.

By the way Obsession will be shown again today. Check your local listings.

But the bottom line here is that where you have a clear understanding of the dynamics and have decided that it's OK for the Western Civilization to be replaced there are others here who are perfectly committed to it's continuance but are unaware of it's vulnerability or their role in helping weaken it.

[marden]

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey 

In his original formulation, and in the core of his later work, Huntington's only civilizations of real consequence are "Western," "Islam," and "Confucian."

Ahhh! Thank you.

[marden]

Originally Posted by dcmacdaddy 

There have been many great civilizations throughout history that had a major influence but are now gone. Why do you think Western Civilization should be any different? Why do you assume Western Civilization should be around forever?

We've only just begun. Would you give in to the forces that want Western civilization to fall simply because you recognize that no civilization has lasted forever?

That would be akin to thinking that as soon as a child realizes he won't live forever he should do everything he can to make his demise a reality.

I think it is the duty of people who have a thriving and promising society to do what they can to help it survive. The Chinese understand this. The Muslims understand this.

Many of us do not.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

And, why do you think Western Civilization going away won't lead to something even better?

Because by definition, the US&A is the da shiznit that could never be topped.

I just watched the documentary Borat, and I have to agree: Who the f*** would wanna live in Kazakhstan, when you have the choice to live in a so much more civilized country like the US&A.

[/sarcasm]

-t

[Sky Captain]

I tell you, I've been from one end of this globe to the other.
I've lived in Europe and had a stint in Africa.
There is nowhere else I'd rather live in the world.
Except parts of Austrailia. And Oz is becoming undesireable.(well the gun control legislation makes it for me anyway)

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Sky Captain 

I tell you, I've been from one end of this globe to the other.
I've lived in Europe and had a stint in Africa.
There is nowhere else I'd rather live in the world.
Except parts of Austrailia. And Oz is becoming indesireable.(well the gun control legislation makes it for me anyway)

Ever been to Kazakhstan ?

-t

[marden]

How many multi-culturists do we have here?

Nations of victims

The victim mentality is both a cause and effect of multiculturalism. Multiculturalism promotes a culture of victims who have a perpetual claim on society and the government. The result is the division of society into political interest groups with conflicting demands that cannot all be met.

Educational proposals from multiculturalists attempt to inculcate in students the idea that Western classical liberal order is, in fact, the most oppressive order of all times. As a result, people are taught to view themselves as victims. This perspective is based on the relativistic assumption that since all cultures are inherently equal, differences in wealth, power, and accomplishments between cultures are, for the most part, due to oppression. Thus, in order to establish cultural equality, multiculturalists emphasize non-Western virtues and Western oppression, dismiss the illiberal traditions of other cultures and attack the ideas of a common culture based on an intellectual, moral, and artistic legacy derived from the Greeks and the Bible.

« The multiculturalist believes that a person's thoughts are either the collectively constructed thoughts of his racial, ethnic, or sexual group or are the thoughts foisted upon him by the dominant white male worldview. »

There would be no harm in multiculturalism if the term simply meant that we should acknowledge and teach truths about many cultures. It is admirable to teach students both the noblest aspects of various cultures and of their failings. Unfortunately, multiculturalism's pluralism and relativism has engendered a reluctance to acknowledge anything positive about Western culture while concurrently maintaining a non-reflective and approving position toward non-Western and minority ideas. Students are taught that no « properly educated » person would be willing to pass judgment on another culture. If a student should deny the equality of all cultures he would be told he was guilty of « enthnocentrism ».

Multicultural educational policies are based on the mistaken notion that cultures consist of mostly benign characteristics. In actual fact, there are both laudable and condemnable aspects of all cultures. Once it is recognized that different cultures exhibit varying degrees of good and evil, it becomes appropriate to inquire which culture exhibits the best characteristics, on an overall basis. Some cultures are better than others: reason is better than force; a free society is superior to slavery; and productivity is better than stagnation.

http://www.quebecoislibre.org/010804-13.htm

[turtle777]

^^^ What a waste of a new thread

-t

[Millennium]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

And, why do you think Western Civilization going away won't lead to something even better?

Because we've seen the ideas people want to replace it with, and they are most assuredly not better. They tend to fall into two categories: the oppressive or the unsustainable (which amounts to the same thing, since they will inevitably fall to more oppressive civilizations relatively quickly).

[osiris]

Originally Posted by Sky Captain 

The ones that can depend on themselves and not the suckling teet of the government will survive.

That's about as honest as it gets.