[Helmling]

I mean with their military direction. First they develop a new satellite missile system. Gee, I wonder why? Obviously to neutralize GPS in case of war with the U.S. Now they're ramping up cyber-warfare operations.

They're obviously making some realistic, not just show-boating, plans for war with America.

In general, it disturbs me that China is able to play the role its playing in economics while maintaining a repressive regime. That offends my moral sensibilities.

This, though, this is just kinda scary.

[peeb]

China has more honor students than the US has students. It's not going to be long before the US wishes it had worked to produce a global order that favored rule of law, instead of the strongest military and economic power.

[TheWOAT]

Originally Posted by peeb 

China has more honor students than the US has students. It's not going to be long before the US wishes it had worked to produce a global order that favored rule of law, instead of the strongest military and economic power.

I dont think the US ever had enough money or power to create a Fantasy World.

[peeb]

Originally Posted by TheWOAT 

I dont think the US ever had enough money or power to create a Fantasy World.

Sure it did, it just chose to create the House of Horrors, not Main Street.

[Helmling]

What does rule of law have to do with our relationship with China?

[Captain Obvious]

Nothing

[Graviton]

America funds China's repressive regime. Most of the developed world funds China's repressive regime. Every day, in Malls everywhere we all help to fund China's repressive regime. The corporate machine depends upon it.

Oh, and you people who say "I don't buy Chinese goods", I'm afraid you people are sorely mistaken. You see, Chinese made goods don't all have MADE IN CHINA stamped on the box in big letters. The 'brands' that pay for these products to be manufactured don't exactly like to advertise where they are made or under what conditions. Some people are even under the illusion that Apple products are 'American'. Unless you're Amish, chances are you're house is chocked full of Chinese made goods or goods that depend upon Chinese made parts. So just keep buying the iPods, sports shoes, toys, cell phones, trendy clothes, computers, game consoles, gadgets and, well, just about every other piece of consumer crap made by Chinese people working in near-slavery conditions just so the fat and bloated commodity culture can have all the junk that it feels it needs. Aint globalization grand?

You may be right, they may wish to 'attack America', but I can't help but wonder why a successful businessman would feel the need to attack his customers.

[Obi Wan's Ghost]

Originally Posted by peeb 

China has more honor students than the US has students.

Doesn't say much when most of their educational material is heavily censored.

It's not going to be long before the US wishes it had worked to produce a global order that favored rule of law, instead of the strongest military and economic power.

How do you produce a global order that favors rule of law without military and economic power when there are regimes out there who like to wave their military might and don't favor any rule of law, democracy, individuality, equality or human rights, and would gladly have take away your freedom to post the things you do on the internet?

[Obi Wan's Ghost]

Originally Posted by Graviton 

I can't help but wonder why a successful businessman would feel the need to attack his customers.

China doesn't want to attack. It's like the new cowboy in town who walks with a funny strut and brandishes his gun sometimes just so he'll be taken seriously. The trick is to give him a seat at the saloon and hang a sign at the bar that reads "No guns allowed in here".

[Graviton]

It might be difficult to convince him of that if he looks around the saloon and all the other cowboys still have their guns holstered "for protection".

I can picture it now:
The American cowboys have guns and they are invading nearby oil rich Indian reservations, claiming that they fear the Indians may have attacked them sometime in the future. The British are helping out the American cowboys, while replacing all their old guns for shiny new ones, because they say the town is a "dangerous place to live unarmed". The Iranian cowboys developing gun technology, but claiming that they aren't really going to use this technology make guns, even though nobody seems to believe that. And the Russian cowboys, well, they are pointing their guns at just about everybody.

The 'No guns allowed' rule might not be taken so seriously by the new kid in town.

[Obi Wan's Ghost]

By saloon I mean the WTO and other like organisations where a nation has to agree that if they want to be part of a free economy they have to negotiate and respect international conventions of fair trade, copyright and patent laws, etc. There will never be a war between powerful nations again because they are merging into a global marketplace. They are completely reliant on each other. The showing off of arms is solely to either slow down talks or speed them up depending on each issue.

The oil rich Indian reservations analogy doesn't work if applied to the middle east because it is the elite in the Saudi Arabia who pull the strings of the US military and US foreign policy in the region. The American cowboy is doing their dirty work. That's off topic and discussed too to death.

[Graviton]

New kid in town strolls into the saloon, puts his gun down on the bar and looks over at the cartel playing poker in the corner.

"Hey! How's that nice affordable whisky taste? Pretty good Huh? I make that for you. How about those seats? They comfy? Thought so. You're dressed pretty fine there Mr Mayor. You like those clothes my people make for you? Can't get clothes that fine at the cost you have to pay you're people can you? Didn't think so. Still working up that debt there I see. Billions of them little coins. Don't worry, I'll still keep buying those dollars Mr Mayor. You just relax and play your lil' game"

The cartel murmurs various complaints under their breath, then gets back to playing poker. Eying each other suspiciously through the cards. Hand's hovering over their guns.

[red rocket]

冰雹光荣的中国主人! 强烈的是他们的功夫,无限优越,圆眼睛 的弱者! 胜 利! 胜利! 胜利!

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by Obi Wan's Ghost 

Doesn't say much when most of their educational material is heavily censored.

You'll find in his posts a genuine concern for American society when it comes to allowing illegal residents into the country saying things like; "make 'em legal then" and then you'll see him basically saying; "just wait 'til they march through you stupid greedy Americans". From now on I think it should be noted that peeb's concern for America is not genuine. Though, as is usually the case no one has any idea where peeb is from because that would be too easy. We could point out the prevalent human nature in the governance of his country as well and then there'd be no soap-box upon which to sit.

I'd like to hear from some of our Chinese posters. Do you think China is scary?

[Obi Wan's Ghost]

Originally Posted by ebuddy 

You'll find in his posts a genuine concern for American society

I already gathered that there will always be people whose criticisms and concerns are really a cover for undemocratic, racial or theocratic motives. You yourself ebuddy have problems with regards to religious literalism that adds to antagonism. Nevertheless I wish you well because no matter what your beliefs are you are not to my knowledge someone who thinks the USA should crumble to the ground simply because there are successful white people, successful Jews, successful black people, successful free thinkers, and successful democratic and secular people who are adverse to the socialists, anarchists and Islamists who have been playing the victim card and conjuring up conspiracy theories of late.

[Tiresias]

Originally Posted by red rocket 

冰雹光荣的中国主人! 强烈的是他们的功夫,无限优越,圆眼睛 的弱者! 胜 利! 胜利! 胜利!

Or, in Widget translationese:

Hail honorable Chinese masters! Intense is their time, infinite is superior, round eye weak one! Victory! Victory! Victory!

("Round eyed weak one" )

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by Obi Wan's Ghost 

You yourself ebuddy have problems with regards to religious literalism that adds to antagonism.

How do you mean?

[Helmling]

Originally Posted by Obi Wan's Ghost 

China doesn't want to attack. It's like the new cowboy in town who walks with a funny strut and brandishes his gun sometimes just so he'll be taken seriously. The trick is to give him a seat at the saloon and hang a sign at the bar that reads "No guns allowed in here".

China obviously doesn't have the capacity to attack the United States, but they are clearly trying to prepare themselves for a war with us. I guess we don't have to worry about it because there's really no potential tinderbox--you know touchy hot button issue or territorial disagreement--that could possibly set off a conflict between our two nations.

So, nothing to worry about!

(If you missed the irony, go smack yourself)

No, China's bid is not about impressing the boys in the bar. Think Sun Tzu, not John Wayne.

[Krusty]

Originally Posted by Obi Wan's Ghost 

Doesn't say much when most of their educational material is heavily censored.

Is their math, computer science, and engineering educational material censored ? (and if so, how so?) That's where they are kicking out butts. I don't think anyone is worried about them beating us in a Poetry Slam or Quiz Bowl.

[peeb]

No, of course maths, cs and engineering is not censored. The only things that are censored are religious issues, criticism of the govt, and political issues.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by peeb 

China has more honor students than the US has students.

Coming from a country with more than three times our population and which has all the moral integrity of a used-car salesman in Congress, somehow I don't find that fact as troubling as you do. I can't imagine why a country with more students would have more honor students, or imagine such a fine, upstanding nation lying to make itself look better! Heaven forfend!

Heck, given how China's main exports come from ****ing sweatshops, it sounds like those kids are wasting their time on an education.

[peeb]

Sorry? I don't find your logic compelling - first, I'm not terrible troubled by it, secondly, your characterization of moral integrity of that nation is racist and offensive. Of course it is the sheer size of China that makes creates that statistic, it has nothing to do with tendency of most governments to lie.

[The Godfather]

Originally Posted by Graviton 

I can't help but wonder why a successful businessman would feel the need to attack his customers.

A truly successful businessperson doesn't attack her customers, but repeatedly rapes them every single day (in the wallet). Has the situation developed to this point yet?

[pooka]

Man, I sure wish I lived in China. They treat you right.

Maybe by Die Hard 6 the Chinese will own most of LA and John McClane will be throwing terrorists off of the Chung Towers. Sweet.