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monkpea · Jun 4, 2009, 07:46 AM

Hello,

I am keen to get myself a new monitor 24" or so that I can use to stare at WinWord 2003, 8 hours a day. I've used a number of screens over the years and haven't worked out what it is that makes some slightly sickenning/headachy and others fresh and enjoyable.

It is my opinion that the monitor is THE most important part of any computer setup, followed by the keyboard, mouse.

Out of interest, who makes the LCD panel for apple's displays? I can't bring myself to buy one seeing as the dvi adapter alone costs £70!!!!! It's more a principle thing, I would be happy to spend £600 odd on the monitor itself... Seriously stupid, old apple like move if you ask me, but then there are probably only a few weirdos like me keen to stick an apple monitor to a pc so perhaps not.

What are your thoughts?

Pea

shifuimam · Jun 4, 2009, 08:56 AM

I believe ACDs contain Samsung LCDs.

That being said, the Dell UltraSharp series of LCDs uses the same internal hardware as ACDs for a fraction of the price. A 24" Dell UltraSharp will run you $480 on their site. Other Dell 24" displays are about half that, but the components aren't as high quality (and the display has less features - the UltraSharp line is fully adjustable with tilt, height, and rotation).

I wouldn't personally waste the money on an ACD. Sure, it looks nice (although I'd argue that Dell's displays look pretty sexy, too), but it only has tilt adjustment, and if you find yourself wanting to put it on an LCD VESA mount, you're going to have to pay extra just to get the adapter. Plus, as you already mentioned, the ACD doesn't even have standard VGA and DVI connections, whereas the Dells all do.

msuper69 · Jun 4, 2009, 11:50 AM

The current 24" Apple display is LED not LCD.

The current 30" Apple display is LCD.

CharlesS · Jun 4, 2009, 11:53 AM

Shifuimam's post in this thread is almost completely wrong. Apple's Cinema Displays are H-IPS panels, which I believe are manufactured by LG/Philips. They are most certainly not using the same panels as the Dell UltraSharps, which are Samsung S-PVA panels in the 24" line and up, and cheap TN panels in the smaller models. Both H-IPS and S-PVA panel types are very good (I myself have a Dell 2408wfp and love it), but the IPS panels used in Apple's displays are going to have slightly better color accuracy and near-perfect viewing angles. This is not to say that the Dell's S-PVA panels are bad - they are in fact very good screens, far better than the cheap crap you see at Best Buy, and if you're not a graphic designer you may not care about the difference between PVA and IPS at all. But it's not correct to say they're the same as Apple's IPS screens.

You do have a point, though, about the inputs. ACDs are somewhat anemic in that area. Here's a monitor that does use an H-IPS panel like Apple's, but with all the same inputs that the Dell 2408wfp has. If I had known about this monitor's existence when I got my 2408wfp, I probably would have gone for this instead.

turtle777 · 02:31 PM

I just bought a 24" Samsung LCD TV 1080p / monitor, I paid $ 280 for it a week ago - great sale. Right now, it's back to $ 390.

Has DVI inputs and is VESA mount capable.

Samsung 2433BW 24 Widescreen LCD Monitor Matte Black by Office Depot

Beats a Dell display .

-t

LEStudios · Jun 5, 2009, 05:20 PM

Originally Posted by turtle777

I just bought a 24" Samsung LCD TV 1080p / monitor, I paid $ 280 for it a week ago - great sale. Right now, it's back to $ 390.

Has DVI inputs and is VESA mount capable.

Samsung 2433BW 24 Widescreen LCD Monitor Matte Black by Office Depot

Beats a Dell display .

-t

Yeah but it won't beat this Display!

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3359/...43f5017b_o.jpg

Koralatov · Jun 6, 2009, 02:18 PM

Originally Posted by msuper69

The current 24" Apple display is LED not LCD.

The current 30" Apple display is LCD.

That’s not correct. Both the old and current ACDs are LCD displays; the difference lies in the backlighting, not the type of panel itself. The 30″ display has a CCFL, whereas the new 24″ has an LED backlight.

CharlesS · Jun 6, 2009, 03:04 PM

Originally Posted by turtle777

I just bought a 24" Samsung LCD TV 1080p / monitor, I paid $ 280 for it a week ago - great sale. Right now, it's back to $ 390.

Has DVI inputs and is VESA mount capable.

Samsung 2433BW 24 Widescreen LCD Monitor Matte Black by Office Depot

Beats a Dell display .

-t

Cheap crap, TN panel, bottom of the line. Certainly doesn't beat an S-PVA Dell UltraSharp, or even the cheap displays on the shelf at Best Buy.

Veltliner · Jun 10, 2009, 05:41 AM

Eizo Coloredge, if you can afford it.

ghporter · Jun 10, 2009, 07:39 AM

Originally Posted by CharlesS

Shifuimam's post in this thread is almost completely wrong.

I would have said "outdated," rather than "almost completely wrong." At one time not too long ago, weren't those statements accurate?

OreoCookie · Jun 10, 2009, 08:43 AM

Originally Posted by Veltliner

Eizo Coloredge, if you can afford it.

The OP uses office and hasn't mentioned color critical work. Spending money on such a monitor would almost likely be a waste of money. As a matter of fact, the requirements for such use are rather low. A nice non-TN panel display would be fine.

angelmb · Jun 10, 2009, 09:01 AM

Originally Posted by ghporter

I would have said "outdated," rather than "almost completely wrong." At one time not too long ago, weren't those statements accurate?

Right, not wrong per se, just slightly outdated. Apple displays have had more panel switches between Samsung and LG (now LG/Philips) than switchers ads Ellen Feiss has a right to play.

The OP uses office and hasn't mentioned color critical work. Spending money on such a monitor would almost likely be a waste of money. As a matter of fact, the requirements for such use are rather low. A nice non-TN panel display would be fine.

Exactly, an Eizo ColorEdge would be 'a bit' overkill for such a need, the Eizo FlexScan line would suit the OP's needs/requirements better.

Or this NEC model.

CharlesS · Jun 10, 2009, 11:57 AM

Originally Posted by angelmb

Right, not wrong per se, just slightly outdated. Apple displays have had more panel switches between Samsung and LG (now LG/Philips) than switchers ads Ellen Feiss has a right to play.

Maybe for the iMacs, but I don't think they've ever used Samsung panels in their Cinema Display line. Those, AFAIK, have always been IPS panels, which Samsung doesn't make. Therefore, it's not outdated - it's just wrong.

angelmb · Jun 10, 2009, 12:23 PM

Wasn't the original Apple Cinema Display a Samsung panel?, I thought being an exclusive to Apple was part of the deal between Apple & Samsung back then… albeit the main focus was to provide with displays the growing Apple's laptop line.

Anyhow, I think another display worth mention is this Philips Lightframe, which is supposed to reduce eye fatigue.

CharlesS · Jun 10, 2009, 12:59 PM

Originally Posted by angelmb

Wasn't the original Apple Cinema Display a Samsung panel?, I thought being an exclusive to Apple was part of the deal between Apple & Samsung back then… albeit the main focus was to provide with displays the growing Apple's laptop line.

Huh, you might be right, since the original Cinema Display's specs according to Mactracker make it look like it was probably a TN panel. That was a long time ago, though.

Anyhow, I think another display worth mention is this Philips Lightframe, which is supposed to reduce eye fatigue.

It may or may not reduce eye fatigue, but that won't stop it from being a TN panel, which it certainly is.

FlammableYurt · Jun 10, 2009, 11:14 PM

I've been doing a lot of research into LCD's in the past couples days, as I'm in the market for two 24" LCDs (I'm currently using two 6+ year old ~20" screens). I'm looking for something versatile, as I do everything from play games, edit photos and stare at text/programming editors for hours on end.

From what I've read, IPS (or maybe PVA) seems like the way to go, but I'm a little bit wary. Most IPS (and PVA) LCD's seem to be "wide gamut" monitors, and I've read several accounts of wide gamut monitors and OS X not playing nicely together (see here for an example). Basically, colorsync assigns the Monitor Profile to untagged images/graphics - but the vast majority of graphics are sRGB, but wide gamut monitors are closer to aRGB. This results in sRGB images being incorrectly displayed with an aRGB profile, leading to funny colors and oversaturation...

The LCDs I'm considering (but afraid of gambling on in light of the above) are the Dell UltraSharp 2408WFP, the HP LP2475w, and the DoubleSight 245W (if I can find one...). CharlesS - I noticed that you said you have the Dell 2408WFP - do you notice this at all?

CharlesS · 11:53 PM

^ I'm not the best one to ask about oversaturation, since my red-green colorblindness naturally causes a lot of normally colored things to look undersaturated. I can tell you that as far as I can tell the picture seems beautiful to me, and the viewing angles are great, making it a good monitor for a media center for my use. If you want to ask more sophisticated color-related questions, I'm afraid someone else will be more qualified to answer.

What I do know is that all of Apple's Cinema Displays use IPS panels like the one in the HP LP2475w, so I'd be quite surprised if ColorSync weren't well equipped to handle that display type. These panels are also well spoken of for their color accuracy, and the people who care about color accuracy are often involved in graphic design, a field where OS X has a strong presence.

FlammableYurt · Jun 11, 2009, 01:30 AM

Haha, damn - I was hoping for some good news

How do you know Apple's displays use the same IPS panels as the HP LP2475w? There are many different IPS panels (different types and different manufacturers) and they are not all equal. In fact I've even run into an account of the oversaturation problem in the LP2475w specifically (here) in Windows - which apparently isn't immune to the problem, either.

And regarding IPS LCDs' better color accuracy - they have better color accuracy in color managed applications with correctly tagged images. The main problem regarding OS X seems to be that untagged images are assigned the Monitor Profile, which in the case of a wide gamut LCD would be aRGB - even though most untagged images are actually sRGB.

So... Has anyone who isn't color blind used a wide gamut LCD in OS X, and if so care to share your impressions?

CharlesS · 02:49 AM

Originally Posted by FlammableYurt

How do you know Apple's displays use the same IPS panels as the HP LP2475w? There are many different IPS panels (different types and different manufacturers) and they are not all equal.

I've never really heard of IPS panels from manufacturers other than LG.Philips, but regardless whether I'm wrong about that, I do know that both Apple's monitors and the LP2475w use LG.Philips panels, and that Apple's 24" LED display and the LP2475w are both H-IPS (Apple's older monitors are S-IPS, it seems). They are likely to be very similar in their properties.

FWIW, I'm no expert, but I've never heard of this being a big issue before, and my gut instinct is that the people writing these reviews are probably making mountains out of molehills. The best thing to do, though, would probably be to see if you can see any of these monitors in person to see how you like them (or to see an Apple 24", which uses an LG.Philips H-IPS panel and should be pretty similar to the LP2475w).

FlammableYurt · Jun 11, 2009, 10:49 AM

Originally Posted by CharlesS

The best thing to do, though, would probably be to see if you can see any of these monitors in person to see how you like them (or to see an Apple 24", which uses an LG.Philips H-IPS panel and should be pretty similar to the LP2475w).

Yeah, I think that's what I'm going to have to do. It's kind of a problem, though, considering I live in the middle of nowhere and there are no electronics stores around me that are likely to have many monitors, let alone fancy ones...

Thanks for your input! And your analysis that people might just be blowing things out of proportion wouldn't surprise me at all - I hope it's the case!