[Chongo]

Rep Alan Grayson was kind of close when he said "Republicans want you to die quickly." It was actually former Labor Secretary Robert Reich, one of President Obama's economic advisers in a lecture he gave in 2007 on "What the presidential candidates won't tell you."
The healthcare portion from his lecture in 2007 at UC Berkeley.
YouTube - Robert Reich: What An Honest President Would Say About Health Reform

I'll actually give you a speech made up entirely, almost on the spur of the moment, of what a candidate for president would say if that candidate did not care about becoming president. In other words, this is what the truth is and a candidate will never say, but what a candidate should say if we were in the kind of democracy where citizens were honored in terms of their practice of citizenship and they were educated in terms of what the issues were and they could separate myth from reality in terms of what candidates would tell them:

"Thank you so much for coming this afternoon. I'm so glad to see you and I would like to be president. Let me tell you a few things on health care. Look, we have the only health care system in the world that is designed to avoid sick people. And that's true and what I'm going to do is that I am going try to reorganize it to be more amenable to treating sick people but that means you, particularly you young people, particularly you young healthy people...you're going to have to pay more.

"Thank you. And by the way, we're going to have to, if you're very old, we're not going to give you all that technology and all those drugs for the last couple of years of your life to keep you maybe going for another couple of months. It's too expensive...so we're going to let you die."

"Also I'm going to use the bargaining leverage of the federal government in terms of Medicare, Medicaid---we already have a lot of bargaining leverage---to force drug companies and insurance companies and medical suppliers to reduce their costs. What that means, less innovation and that means less new products and less new drugs on the market which means you are probably not going to live much longer than your parents. Thank you."

Reich's entire lecture: http://webcast.berkeley.edu/stream.p...ebcastid=20057

[stumblinmike]

As someone who works with the elderly, I have had more than one person say to me (paraphrasing here) " They have all these miracle drugs to keep you around, FOR WHAT???" These folks are ready and WILLING to go...it's all about quality of life at that stage of their life, and the quality is just not there. Maybe you would like to linger bedbound, tubes to breath, eat and void, for several years, but most people don't. That's why Dr K was so popular. It's not a quality of life any reasonable person would hope for. He did mention several caveats (very old, last couple of years of meds for extra months of "life", and most importantly to you conservatives, MONEY!!!!) Hardly a Death Panel...

[olePigeon]

The "Death Panel" also only funds FDA approved medicine and exploratory medicine. That means keeping the elderly from wasting their money on homeopathic witch doctors.

[Snow-i]

Originally Posted by stumblinmike 

As someone who works with the elderly, I have had more than one person say to me (paraphrasing here) " They have all these miracle drugs to keep you around, FOR WHAT???" These folks are ready and WILLING to go...it's all about quality of life at that stage of their life, and the quality is just not there. Maybe you would like to linger bedbound, tubes to breath, eat and void, for several years, but most people don't. That's why Dr K was so popular. It's not a quality of life any reasonable person would hope for. He did mention several caveats (very old, last couple of years of meds for extra months of "life", and most importantly to you conservatives, MONEY!!!!) Hardly a Death Panel...

are you serious?

[OldManMac]

On a related note about the health care industry:

Jesus sums up the health-care industry

[besson3c]

So just what is the official Republican party health care plan proposal as of now?

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by stumblinmike 

As someone who works with the elderly, I have had more than one person say to me (paraphrasing here) " They have all these miracle drugs to keep you around, FOR WHAT???" These folks are ready and WILLING to go...it's all about quality of life at that stage of their life, and the quality is just not there. Maybe you would like to linger bedbound, tubes to breath, eat and void, for several years, but most people don't. That's why Dr K was so popular. It's not a quality of life any reasonable person would hope for. He did mention several caveats (very old, last couple of years of meds for extra months of "life", and most importantly to you conservatives, MONEY!!!!) Hardly a Death Panel...

Yep. I'll kill myself before I end up stuck in a bed, in an old folks home, waiting for my kids to show up once a month and watching reruns of Matlock (or whatever the equivalent will be when we reach that age ... perhaps Xfiles reruns).

[Chongo]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

So just what is the official Republican party health care plan proposal as of now?

Remember, Speaker Pelosi controls what does and does not get on the calendar.

From Health Care - GOP Solutions for America - GOP.gov

COMMON-SENSE HEALTH CARE REFORMS OUR NATION CAN AFFORD

"It’s time to start over on a common-sense, bipartisan plan focused on lowering the cost of health care while improving quality. That’s what I heard over the past several months in talking to thousands of my constituents. Replacing your family’s current health care with government-run health care is not the answer. We can do better, with a targeted approach that tackles the biggest problems."
– Rep. Charles Boustany, Jr. , MD, September 9, 2009

The American people have spoken. They oppose government-run health care. Republicans are on the side of the American people.

What Americans want are common-sense, responsible solutions that address the rising cost of health care and other major problems. In the Republican address following President Obama's speech to a Joint Session of Congress on Wednesday, September 9, 2009, Dr. Charles Boustany (R-LA) outlined a series of such solutions:

* "We do need medical liability reform, and it needs to be real reform. We need to establish tough liability reform standards, encourage speedy resolution of claims, and deter junk lawsuits that drive up the cost of care."
* "Let's also talk about letting families and businesses buy insurance across state lines. I and many other Republicans believe that will provide real choice and competition to lower the cost of health insurance."
* "All individuals should have access to coverage, regardless of preexisting conditions."
* "Individuals, small businesses and other groups should be able to join together to get health insurance at lower prices, the same way large businesses and labor unions do."
* "We can provide assistance to those who still cannot access a doctor."
* "[I]nsurers should be able to offer incentives for wellness care and prevention – something particularly important to me. I operated on too many people who could have avoided surgery if they’d simply made healthier choices earlier in life."

For more information about these and some of the other common-sense health care reforms proposed by Republicans, please visit these links:

http://blunt.house.gov/Read.aspx?ID=1140
Republican Study Committee (RSC) - The Caucus of House Conservatives
U.S. Congressman John Shadegg : Serving the 3rd District of Arizona
http://www.house.gov/ryan/PCA/index.htm
Centrist Leaders Unveil Medical Rights and Reform Act | Congressman Mark Kirk – 10th District, Illinois
Congressman Phil Gingrey, M.D.
U.S. Congressman Sam Johnson : Serving the 3rd District of Texas
Keeping a Bad Bill Bad: Democratic Leaders Block 31 Common-Sense Changes to Health Care Bill | Republican Leader John Boehner
http://republicanleader.house.gov/Up...dent_Obama.pdf

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Chongo 

Remember, Speaker Pelosi controls what does and does not get on the calendar.

From Health Care - GOP Solutions for America - GOP.gov

So, very little.

Tort reform would be welcome, but a drop in the bucket. Same with buying across state lines as long as hospitals only support certain insurers often carried by the big employers of the area. I've yet to hear how they will address the pre-existing conditions problem (and I have also yet to hear any mention of regulation), how "joining together" to be able to access group rates helps much when in many cases even the group rates are too expensive. The wellness idea I like, the providing assistance thing sounds pretty vague, especially since right now there are so many who cannot access a doctor.

I guess I will have to read more about these plans, but clearly the quest to stamp on the public option has been their main focus. It's just hard to see how health care becomes affordable without a plan more grand in scope than this. My sense is that many conservatives underestimate the scope of this problem.

[stumblinmike]

Originally Posted by Snow-i 

are you serious?

.....as a heart attack!

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

Originally Posted by Chongo 

Rep Alan Grayson was kind of close when he said "Republicans want you to die quickly."

I've always noticed that you can safely assume that whatever it is that Democrats accuse Republicans of, they're actually up to it themselves and just hoping no one will notice.

By the way, ol' "honest Obama" has said in so many words what Reich said. "Just take a pill"

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE 

I've always noticed that you can safely assume that whatever it is that Democrats accuse Republicans of, they're actually up to it themselves and just hoping no one will notice.

I've noticed the exactly same thing. Like, when the most vocal opponents to homosexuality and gay marriage turn out to be homosexuals or when the most staunch proponents of Family Values end up having affairs or getting caught with hookers.

[Snow-i]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

I've noticed the exactly same thing. Like, when the most vocal opponents to homosexuality and gay marriage turn out to be homosexuals or when the most staunch proponents of Family Values end up having affairs or getting caught with hookers.

Seems to be an attribute of all of our politicians. Hmm...

[OldManMac]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

I've noticed the exactly same thing. Like, when the most vocal opponents to homosexuality and gay marriage turn out to be homosexuals or when the most staunch proponents of Family Values end up having affairs or getting caught with hookers.

The problem is that the most vocal proponents of "Family Values" are Republicans, and they're the ones who have been in the news the most in the last few years, having been caught with their pants down.

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

I've noticed the exactly same thing. Like, when the most vocal opponents to homosexuality and gay marriage turn out to be homosexuals or when the most staunch proponents of Family Values end up having affairs or getting caught with hookers.

True- people are blatant hypocrites.

Which is why it's a safe bet those that crow on the most about "saaaaaving the planet.." are among the most likely to pollute it, those that throw out the charge of racist the most, probably harbor a lot of racist tendencies, those that claim to be the biggest allies of the poor, are often among the least charitable, and on and on and on...

Hypocrisy is a pretty common human trait. And when it comes to politics, that seems to be the rule more often than the exception.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by Snow-i 

are you serious?

It's a joke account, don't take it very seriously... or just put it on ignore, your choice.

[besson3c]

stumblinmike's comments about quality of life and being left alive were pretty tangential, but they aren't uncommon. I happen to agree with him on this, although I don't really see the connection to the health care discussion.

[stumblinmike]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

It's a joke account, don't take it very seriously... or just put it on ignore, your choice.

You've done neither!