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asmujica · Jun 24, 2002, 01:03 AM

I truly hope apple puts g4 and 32 megs of video memory in a ibook se soon. I am in need of a laptop and will be buying one soon. I would go the 700mhz route but I don't like that a new laptop will not run "optimized" with an operating system that will be out in a few months.

And I wont add 1000 bucks more to buy a powerbook. Is it me or is there a huge gap there that needs filling up so that people like me can have the option of buying a mac instead of buying a dell?

[ 06-24-2002, 01:07 AM: Message edited by: asmujica ]

Panzer · Jun 24, 2002, 01:09 AM

Word.
There a huge gap there that needs filling.

el lindo · Jun 24, 2002, 01:18 AM

But the thing is, if you need to run Q.E. super fast and are doing more than what the G3 can handle, the iBook is not for you. If they released a second edition, there's no way it would be under $2,000. That's only $400 less than a powerbook. So if you need power that badly, save up for a couple more weeks and get a powerbook. They're made for people like yourself.

[ 06-24-2002, 01:20 AM: Message edited by: el lindo ]

Red Wolf · Jun 24, 2002, 10:14 AM

Yeah, go PowerBook. The iBook will be G3 for a while longer simply because they are selling well how they are now. They just upgraded the VRAM and got a speed bump. The soonest they may do anything for the iBook will be in the fall when schools are starting up again. I honestly wouldn't expect a G4 iBook until January 2003 at the earliest.

asmujica · Jun 24, 2002, 11:01 AM

I don't know how apple intends to lure pc users like myself to apple. I need a laptop, If I would go with a pc I can find a pc that is within my exact budget and within every price range you can imagine. If you have a few more bucks, maybe you could get a better procesor, a faster drive, more video memory, etc.

But with the macs I have to choose between a beast and a mouse. I am the in between guy. I like the ibook for is portability and its price. And I love the powerbook for its blazing speed, but I am not willing to spend 1000 bucks more than an ibook.

There must be some middle ground somewhere. If I go buy a pc why would I go back to apple then. The new pcs are much more stable than they where a few years ago. Pcs also don't start slow, so the need for changing them is eliminated. The only drawback are the crashes, but slowly they are beginning to fix them. I sincerely hope Apple gets its act together soon or they will truly be in trouble. I guess it all sounded too good to be true, better operating system, no crashes, better machines, but no options for the middle guys. That is really sad, I truly hope apple is watching this.........

james_squared · Jun 24, 2002, 11:28 AM

Hello,

I know exactly what you mean. I wanted to get a laptop myself, but I wanted to make the switch from a PC to an Apple. I found the Powerbooks to be too expensive, and the iBooks fell just a little short of perfection. Of course, my needs aren't that outrageous.

Specifically, I was looking at the iBooks in April and my two biggest stumbling blocks were the 8MB VRAM and the 20GB hard drive that was standard. I was lucky though, when my iBook was in at the local store (it took a few weeks for them to receive it because the store is very small), the newer iBooks were announced and I quickly changed my order. I was very pleased with Apple as they had addressed my concerns exactly.

For me, however, I don't need a G4 processor or 32MB VRAM. It would be nice, but it's just not worth the extra money to me. I've been very pleased with my 14.1" 700MHz machine and my wife is very happy with her iPod.

I do see the relatively large gap between the iBooks and the Powerbooks, but I don't think Apple is going to close that gap anytime soon. I'm sure Apple is very aware of this gap, but the iBook is designed as a consumer/education portable computer. It needs to be small and relatively inexpensive. Most iBook users don't want to spend a lot of money and don't need the extras.

You simply have to understand that there are inherent advantages and disadvantages to purchasing an item from Apple. You get a great machine with a stable OS, but you have a lot less choice in the marketplace.

I'm sure that Apple does listen to its customers, though.

James

BrunoBruin · Jun 24, 2002, 12:23 PM

The 700MHz iBooks are hardly mice. I had an original 500MHz (66MHz bus) for a year and it was perfectly acceptable for what I needed -- word processing, Internet, watching DVDs. The new ones should be much faster, and faster still with Quartz Extreme.

The iBooks are really great little machines. Compact, rugged and a good value.

fulmer · Jun 24, 2002, 03:06 PM

yeah, the 700 model is nice. Get plenty of RAM and it should pull its weight. Here's the deal: if you need to do video or graphics work, and need it rendered today, then the powerbook will be for you and most likely always will.

I have the 700 model and can vouch for its quality, speed, portability, and high value-per-dollar.

asmujica · Jun 24, 2002, 09:23 PM

I will use it for the following: Listening mp3s, while surfing the net, while on icq and using word all at the same time.

How do you guys think it will add up. I went down to a store down here that sells ibooks and tried the 500mhz version (it was all they had) and it felt pretty slow. I am used to click and its open. The 500mhz had 128 mb of ram and 8mb of video memory. Will the new 700mhz ibook with the ram filled be better?

I also noticed they had a g4 imac 800mhz that had half the cache that the ibook had but perfomed very nicely with 256 mb of ram. I would not mind that sort of performance. Would you guys say that it is similar somewhat?

meducus · Jun 24, 2002, 09:55 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by asmujica:
I will use it for the following: Listening mp3s, while surfing the net, while on icq and using word all at the same time.

How do you guys think it will add up. I went down to a store down here that sells ibooks and tried the 500mhz version (it was all they had) and it felt pretty slow. I am used to click and its open. The 500mhz had 128 mb of ram and 8mb of video memory. Will the new 700mhz ibook with the ram filled be better?

I also noticed they had a g4 imac 800mhz that had half the cache that the ibook had but perfomed very nicely with 256 mb of ram. I would not mind that sort of performance. Would you guys say that it is similar somewhat?<hr /></blockquote>1. The ibook 700 with 384 meg Ram (640 if you can afford it) will do that sooooo easily

2. The 700 will be sooooooo much faster than the 500, seriously here's the difference (twice the L2 cache - 512 instead of 256kb, 100 mhz bus instead off 66 mhz, 200 extra mhz on the new 'Sahara' G3 chip which is significantly faster and uses less power than the old G3's, 16 meg Raedon video instead of 8 meg Rage).

3. I would imagine the ibook 700 would perform similarly to the imacs in non altivec (i.e. non G4 enhanced) apps. The main difference in the faster hard drives of the desktops plus the 100 mhz CPU speed. Of course the imac should be quite abit faster in altivec apps however........but you can't put the imac in your backback

mark9939 · Jun 24, 2002, 11:22 PM

I use a 12.1" iBook 600 CD w/ just 128 RAM. (Buying more in a few weeks

) I run X full time. I run IE5, iTunes, AIM, Carracho, iPhoto, and have an Airport connection All AT ONCE. I'm no speed freak, but I think the iBooks handle just fine. (This is my 1st Mac & I'm lovin it.) I say iBook all the way. It's the most portable laptop I've ever seen!

NDBounce · Jun 25, 2002, 12:38 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />All bold type Originally posted by asmujica:
I don't know how apple intends to lure pc users like myself to apple.<hr /></blockquote>They start by luring you in to these forums

But with the macs I have to choose between a beast and a mouse.


REALLY?!?

When I think of mouse, I think of a PC Laptop with Celeron processor. CD Rom all for $999. I definitely don't think iBook, Airport ready, firewire, USB, VGA Out, Ethernet, OS X, iPhoto, iTunes, etc etc. I would rank the iBook more of a Coyote than a mouse. And while it is not a Lion like the Powerbook, it is definitely respectable in its own right.


I am the in between guy. I like the ibook for is portability and its price. And I love the powerbook for its blazing speed, but I am not willing to spend 1000 bucks more than an ibook.


I don't mean to pick on you, and I do as much whining in these forums as the next guy, but basically what I constantly hear is "I want all the features of a Powerbook, plus a Superdrive with and 32" screen on a unit tha gets 72 hours of battery life (fully chargable in an hour, of course) and collapses to something roughly the size and weight of a quarter (or perhaps a dime for those of us with really high expectations) all for $699."

The iBook is a solid machine. Most people probably do not need the power of the powerbooks at this point in time (and I distinguish between need and want). I don't think there is a big need for a gmachine between the iBook and Powerbook.If it is really that big of an issue maybe people should look in to a Ti 500 or 550.


There must be some middle ground somewhere. If I go buy a pc why would I go back to apple then. The new pcs are much more stable than they where a few years ago. Pcs also don't start slow, so the need for changing them is eliminated. The only drawback are the crashes, but slowly they are beginning to fix them. I sincerely hope Apple gets its act together soon or they will truly be in trouble. I guess it all sounded too good to be true, better operating system, no crashes, better machines, but no options for the middle guys. That is really sad, I truly hope apple is watching this.........

Okay here is the deal. The reality is that there is plenty of room for the middle guys...there is no room for the low end users. Apples i line (ibook, imac) IS FOR THE MIDDLE GUYS. They cost as much as a MID RANGE PC. If you want to criticize Apple for leaving something out of the mix it is a low end machine. That is to say Apple does not compete with the $400-$1000 machines offered by many PC manufacturers. Personally, I would like to see them compete in this market but only if they can do so and maintain the quality we've come to expect from Apple. By definition that would be very very difficult unless they repackaged their older models, and doing so would really upset a lot of mac users (I can see the complaints already from upset Apple loyalists at the introduction of a 500 Mhz machine with CD Rom, and Airport ready for $499). So you can accuse Apple of not competing in the low end arena, but don't say they don't compete in the middle ground. They offer both a laptop and desktop under $1500. That is midrange.

Okay, I have put my 2 cents worth (which probably totals a buck fifty).

I'm sorry if I sound harsh. I do not mean anything personal.

Peace,

O
B unce!

[ 06-25-2002, 12:53 AM: Message edited by: NDBounce ]

everyman · Jun 25, 2002, 01:01 AM

Hi. You don't really need a more powerful iBook. You just think you do.
I have an iBook 700 with 384MB and I just opened Word, opened my Browser, listened to MP3's in iTunes and it all worked flawlessly. Sorry, I don't use IRC, but I am sure this little iBook can handle mostly anything you throw at it.
I did have an iBook 500 and it felt much less responsive than the 700.
Why not try one at an Apple Store near you?
You can open everything on a PC blazingly fast, true, but it still won't provide the overall great computing experience you'll get on a Mac. If I were you, I'd definitely add 512MB and you should be great to go.
There's more to life than just speed.

asmujica · Jun 25, 2002, 07:09 PM

Ok, so a 700mhz would work for me. WIll I regret not waiting for the conference to see if a new laptop comes out?

meducus · Jun 25, 2002, 11:56 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by asmujica:
Ok, so a 700mhz would work for me. WIll I regret not waiting for the conference to see if a new laptop comes out?<hr /></blockquote>The ibook 700s have only just come out. I would be amazed to an update that quickly......there are other apple products that could/should be updated first - think the flat screen imacs came out way before the new ibook 700s and they haven't been updated yet.

If you need a laptop now, I'd get the ibook 700 (actually I already have). By the way, personally I much prefer the 12.1 screen - the whole laptop just looks better and is amazingly portable....and besides the 14.1 only runs at the same resolution).

You'd think we all worked for apple with all the convincing sales pitches (which we don't.....which says something I guess - cause mostly what I hear from Windoze users is bitchin about how crap their PC are running)

asmujica · Jun 26, 2002, 12:49 AM

Well I just ordered the 12inch 700mhz, airport card and filled to the brim with ram.

I hope you guys are right and I won't regret this <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="frown.gif" />

TNproud2b · Jun 26, 2002, 02:47 AM

I've been paying a lot of attention to user's opinions of Apples products and it seems like the current iBook is almost universally loved.

On the other end of the 'most-loved' spectrum we have the Quicksilvers and to a lesser extent, the TiBook.

meducus · Jun 26, 2002, 07:12 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by asmujica:
Well I just ordered the 12inch 700mhz, airport card and filled to the brim with ram.

I hope you guys are right and I won't regret this

<hr /></blockquote>This sounds like a pretty nice setup to me (better than mine ubastard)

Eug · Jun 26, 2002, 10:19 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Okay here is the deal. The reality is that there is plenty of room for the middle guys...there is no room for the low end users. Apples i line (ibook, imac) IS FOR THE MIDDLE GUYS. They cost as much as a MID RANGE PC. If you want to criticize Apple for leaving something out of the mix it is a low end machine. That is to say Apple does not compete with the $400-$1000 machines offered by many PC manufacturers. Personally, I would like to see them compete in this market but only if they can do so and maintain the quality we've come to expect from Apple. By definition that would be very very difficult unless they repackaged their older models, and doing so would really upset a lot of mac users (I can see the complaints already from upset Apple loyalists at the introduction of a 500 Mhz machine with CD Rom, and Airport ready for $499). So you can accuse Apple of not competing in the low end arena, but don't say they don't compete in the middle ground. They offer both a laptop and desktop under $1500. That is midrange.<hr /></blockquote>$400 laptop? What have you been smoking. Sub $1000 PC laptops do exist, but are ULTRA low end, and I can understand Apple not wanting to compete here - doesn't seem like there's a huge amount of money to be made there while still maintaining quality and ergonomics.

To me the iBook is a upper low-end to mid-end machine in terms of specs, but in a very good form factor. So yes, I guess I agree it can be classified as a mid-end machine. However, many of us want a slightly higher-end mid-end machine: Power and portability, but in a nice small form factor (ie. not a TiBook).

I think it's esp. hard for PC users to fully endorse the iBook, because it uses the G3. Even $899 Dells with 14" screen use a GHz+ Celeron (not that I'd ever consider buying one). The G3 is fast per MHz, but its instruction set is too limited these days. It used to be OK, but not anymore, since it seems much of the OS X stuff is built around the G4, including just the OS itself.

[ 06-26-2002, 10:22 AM: Message edited by: Eug ]

JeffZPgh · Jun 26, 2002, 10:55 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by asmujica:
Well I just ordered the 12inch 700mhz, airport card and filled to the brim with ram.

I hope you guys are right and I won't regret this

<hr /></blockquote>You and a good 75% of the folks here need to get over the idea that you can EVER make a computer hardware purchase and enjoy owning the top-of-the-line for more than a few months. It just won't happen, so why consistently set yourself up for disappointment? Buy when you need to and enjoy what you've got until it no longer meets your needs.

I just sold my iBook 500 and picked up a maxed-out 700 just like you did, and I have ZERO regrets now that it's in my hands. The machine is FAST and RESPONSIVE in OS X, so much so that any lingering interest I had in waiting for a G4 iBook has been quenched. I don't really care what comes out now; I'm happy.

scottiB · Jun 26, 2002, 03:49 PM

What JeffP said.

I used a Pismo 400 for two years before I bought the 12.1" 700/Combo. I really, really dig the size, weight, solidity, value. In summing all its aspects, I think the iBook is the perfect laptop--until it's speed bumped/reimagined, that is.

Mojo · Jun 28, 2002, 07:49 PM

I gotta agree with Jeff here...There is an unnatural obsession with speed on this list to the point that some people are seemingly devastated when a new iBook appears that provides relatively minor improvements in performance.

I have never run into this before now; maybe this is the Mac-equivalent of other groups that focus on the gear almost to the exclusion of being able to completely enjoy the experience the gear is (supposedly) providing them.

I am willing to bet that any current iBook is way more computer than most people need anyway.

But hey, It's A Free World and I wouldn't want to tell anyone how to spend their time and money. But I would like to suggest that folks would be better-off to buy their Mac and then avoid the discussions about comparing this iBook to that iBook, rumors about a new G4 iBook coming out two days after Amazon delivers your brand new 700 Combo, etc. and just enjoy the heck out of the iBook you already own.

funkboy · Jul 1, 2002, 12:38 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by asmujica:
Well I just ordered the 12inch 700mhz, airport card and filled to the brim with ram.

I hope you guys are right and I won't regret this

<hr /></blockquote>Wow, don't sound so happy <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

Seriously, be happy with your purchase, you're getting a brand-new compooter! My iBook 500 last year was the state of the art, now it's a bit slower (I hope a lot slower) than the new top-of-the-line iBook. Be happy!

chabig · Jul 1, 2002, 09:59 AM

Regarding laptops based on GH+ Celerons, don't they all have this little "feature" called SpeedStep?

Chris

asmujica · Jul 1, 2002, 03:41 PM

Well, I have my laptop right here. You guys where right, this is one awesome system. I have it filled to the brim with ram, and the aiport card installed.

The only thing that bugged me was that I bought a game, and it was native os9. I did not know that would happen. But oh well, it doesn't take that long to switch anyway.

thanks guys for the help

everyman · Jul 2, 2002, 12:31 PM

asmujica,

I was really glad to read your post. I am very happy you like your new iBook. Especially since I feel I contributed to your deciding to get it.
Please keep us posted. I want to know how you are progressing with it!

Camera God · Jul 2, 2002, 10:10 PM

I have a great idea. They should bump up the iBook to a 500 or 550MHz G4, and then they should make an eBook. Oh wait, I think they would have some trouble with that name. How about an aBook or something?

meducus · Jul 2, 2002, 10:50 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Camera God:
I have a great idea. They should bump up the iBook to a 500 or 550MHz G4, and then they should make an eBook. Oh wait, I think they would have some trouble with that name. How about an aBook or something?<hr /></blockquote>I wouldn't call a 500mhz G4 a 'bump' unless you mean bump down. The new G3 'sahara' chips run at 700 mhz and I am quite confident they will runmost apps considerably faster than a 500 mhz G4 (if all other specs same) except in altivec enhanced apps - even then I would imagine the new G3 with 200 extra mhz and double the L2 cache would match the 500 G4.....and use less power...and have better baterry life.....and not get hot..... and keeps prices down.

rampant · Jul 2, 2002, 11:03 PM

Having 32 megs of memory in the radeon is only an additional $99, I don't see why apple can't do it.

phobos · Jul 3, 2002, 12:58 AM

Asmujica don't even think for a second that you will be dissapointed with your purchase.The work you want to do with the ibook is very light and it will handle it great.I have a slower machine than yours (imac 400MHz) and I'm doing some heavy photoshoping and hires 3d. It's a far from perfect set up for my needs but it was the machine I could buy at that time. So if my iMac serves me well for what I do than your ibook will be the best machine you've ever had....

iBook2 · Jul 6, 2002, 02:09 AM

One thing is for sure, you buy the computer you want when you want it. There will always be something newer/better coming soon. The big question is when do you buy. For everyone it is different.

Originally I thought Apple was going to release a new G4 iBook special edition at Macworld New York, but then after serveral people replying it was too soon I started to think it wasn't going to happen.

Macworld just over a week away I am thinking that Apple is going to release a updated iBook, is it a G4? Maybe. I have been looking at serveral different online stores and they are offering rebates for the following computers:
-G4 Powermac
-iMac
-G4 Powerbook
-iBook
Doesn't that make you think something is about to happen. I too was considering buying a iBook. Heck you can get one from MCE with 640MB RAM and 40GB HD for $1833!!! That is a damn good deal! MCE has this "Go Big" promotion going on until July 15th. Hmmm what's happening after July 15th???? Macworld. We all know what happens when prices go down before a show.

Justin W. Williams · Jul 8, 2002, 12:56 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by el lindo:
But the thing is, if you need to run Q.E. super fast and are doing more than what the G3 can handle, the iBook is not for you. If they released a second edition, there's no way it would be under $2,000. That's only $400 less than a powerbook. So if you need power that badly, save up for a couple more weeks and get a powerbook. They're made for people like yourself.<hr /></blockquote>Well, I need the horsepower of the Powerbook and I do have a top of the line one I am on right now, but I still prefer taking my iBook to class because of its sturdiness and compact size. Each system has a tradeoff, but a g4 iBook would make me as happy as a pig in...well you know

BrunoBruin · Jul 8, 2002, 11:25 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Macworld just over a week away I am thinking that Apple is going to release a updated iBook, is it a G4? Maybe. I have been looking at serveral different online stores and they are offering rebates for the following computers:
-G4 Powermac
-iMac
-G4 Powerbook
-iBook
Doesn't that make you think something is about to happen.<hr /></blockquote>Yes, it makes me think hardware sales in every line are slow and Apple is doing everything it can to move some boxes.

It's just as likely that the recent iBook and TiBook revisions were slated for MWNY but were released early to goose sales last quarter. Even with those new products, total sales didn't meet projections.

adamwsoccer · 08:13 AM

abc

meducus · Jul 12, 2002, 02:34 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by adamwsoccer:
I'm going to be off to University this Fall and I need a laptop. I'm taking Physics Engineering and I'm hoping to get an iBook, but I might have to get a Windows laptop just so the Engineering software and stuff would run. I do have Win95 on VPC 3 but it's not too fast on my iMac (400/40GB/384MB) I don't want to suffer at University because I chose an iBook... The University is suppose to send their system requirements sometime in the summer so I guess I'll just sit tight til then...

Anyways, I think the current iBooks are great, but compared to Windows laptops at the same price, it seems like they are a bit expensive. You can get a 14.1-inch 1.2 Ghz Windows laptop for the price of a basic iBook with a 12-1inch screen and only 600 Mhz (Now I now you can't directly compare speed through Mhz but still..) But the iBook is such a cooler and better designed machine! The 12-1 inch will probably be very comfortable and compact, but it feels kind of expensive compared to other Wintel laptops.

I'll also like this laptop to last through my university life, so I'm thinking i'll somehow make due with my iMac and buy the so called "G4 iBook" that'll come out in January or whatever. That would be a nice machine! I just wished it was out today.

Anyway, that's it for my rambling. Sorry<hr /></blockquote>From the research i did when buying my ibook.....i found that pc laptops in the same range had - no firewire - dvd or cdrw but not combo (at this price) - integrated video chip (with shared ram) - poorer battery life - poorer build quility - heavy - no student discount -

Also I like the small screen and small size...you pay out your ar\se to get a deliberately small notebook from pc companies.

food for thought....its not all mhz

the above is true in Australia anyway

(ibook 700, 12.1, 384 Mb)