[malvolio]

X-celling Over Men
By MAUREEN DOWD

Published: March 20, 2005

Men are always telling me not to generalize about them.

But a startling new study shows that science is backing me up here.

Research published last week in the journal Nature reveals that women are genetically more complex than scientists ever imagined, while men remain the simple creatures they appear.

"Alas," said one of the authors of the study, the Duke University genome expert Huntington Willard, "genetically speaking, if you've met one man, you've met them all. We are, I hate to say it, predictable. You can't say that about women. Men and women are farther apart than we ever knew. It's not Mars or Venus. It's Mars or Venus, Pluto, Jupiter and who knows what other planets."

Women are not only more different from men than we knew. Women are more different from each other than we knew - creatures of "infinite variety," as Shakespeare wrote.

"We poor men only have 45 chromosomes to do our work with because our 46th is the pathetic Y that has only a few genes which operate below the waist and above the knees," Dr. Willard observed. "In contrast, we now know that women have the full 46 chromosomes that they're getting work from and the 46th is a second X that is working at levels greater than we knew."

Dr. Willard and his co-author, Laura Carrel, a molecular biologist at the Pennsylvania State University College of Medicine, think that their discovery may help explain why the behavior and traits of men and women are so different; they may be hard-wired in the brain, in addition to being hormonal or cultural.

So is Lawrence Summers right after all? "Only time will tell," Dr. Willard laughs.

The researchers learned that a whopping 15 percent - 200 to 300 - of the genes on the second X chromosome in women, thought to be submissive and inert, lolling about on an evolutionary Victorian fainting couch, are active, giving women a significant increase in gene expression over men.

As the Times science reporter Nicholas Wade, who is writing a book about human evolution and genetics, explained it to me: "Women are mosaics, one could even say chimeras, in the sense that they are made up of two different kinds of cell. Whereas men are pure and uncomplicated, being made of just a single kind of cell throughout."

This means men's generalizations about women are correct, too. Women are inscrutable, changeable, crafty, idiosyncratic, a different species.

"Women's chromosomes have more complexity, which men view as unpredictability," said David Page, a molecular biologist and expert on sex evolution at the Whitehead Institute for Biomedical Research in Cambridge, Mass.

Known as Mr. Y, Dr. P calls himself "the defender of the rotting Y chromosome." He's referring to studies showing that the Y chromosome has been shedding genes willy-nilly for millions of years and is now a fraction of the size of its partner, the X chromosome. "The Y married up," he notes. "The X married down."

Size matters, so some experts have suggested that in 10 million years or even much sooner - 100,000 years - men could disappear, taking Maxim magazine, March Madness and cold pizza in the morning with them.

Dr. Page drolly conjures up a picture of the Y chromosome as "a slovenly beast," sitting in his favorite armchair, surrounded by the litter of old fast food takeout boxes.

"The Y wants to maintain himself but doesn't know how," he said. "He's falling apart, like the guy who can't manage to get a doctor's appointment or can't clean up the house or apartment unless his wife does it.

"I prefer to think of the Y as persevering and noble, not as the Rodney Dangerfield of the human genome."

Dr. Page says the Y - a refuge throughout evolution for any gene that is good for males and/or bad for females - has become "a mirror, a metaphor, a blank slate on which you can write anything you want to think about males." It has inspired cartoon gene maps that show the belching gene, the inability-to-remember-birthdays-and-anniversaries gene, the fascination-with-spiders-and-reptiles gene, the selective-hearing-loss-"Huh" gene, the inability-to-express-affection-on-the-phone gene.

The discovery about women's superior gene expression may answer the age-old question about why men have trouble expressing themselves: because their genes do.

"The Y married up..."

[nredman]

the "Y"....huh.....eating at the "Y" maybe

[meelk]

wow. this article makes absolutely no sense.

[Kilbey]

Originally posted by meelk:
wow. this article makes absolutely no sense.

You must not know about the guy from Harvard then.

[malvolio]

Originally posted by nredman:
the "Y"....huh.....eating at the "Y" maybe

In genetic terms, the Y chromosome is exclusively and completely male.
So if you're "eating at the Y"...

[meelk]

Originally posted by Kilbey:
You must not know about the guy from Harvard then.

Looks like another study funded to mean absolutely nothing and simply fill the time of people who get funded year after year to do such meaningless bs.

[f1000]

Originally posted by meelk:
wow. this article makes absolutely no sense.

Women have one X chromosome randomly deactivated in each of their somatic cells. The deactivated chromosomes are called Barr bodies. What these researchers are saying is that genes are being expressed from the Barr bodies at higher rates than first thought.

[nredman]

Originally posted by malvolio:
In genetic terms, the Y chromosome is exclusively and completely male.
So if you're "eating at the Y"...

]

DOH!

[Mastrap]

Originally posted by meelk:
Looks like another study funded to mean absolutely nothing and simply fill the time of people who get funded year after year to do such meaningless bs.

Just because you don't understand it doesn't make it bs.

[malvolio]

Size matters, so some experts have suggested that in 10 million years or even much sooner - 100,000 years - men could disappear, taking Maxim magazine, March Madness and cold pizza in the morning with them.

So, nobody picked up on this particular part of the article yet?

[Apple Pro Underwear]

hold on, doesn't it make sense that women are more genetically complex?

they give birth. they have their egg and we our sperm but they actually are in charge of production... it should be without saying they have more gene expression.


also... after reading it again... what the f*ck? is this a scientific article or some editorial about the stereotypiing of male/female and X/Y relationships?

i rate this article a 9 on the BSometer until she writes some footnotes on what the X chromosome actually does and what the Y actually doesn't and how this actually effects the modern relationship between men and women and how this can be used to help society rather than fuel the fires of men vs women into the next century.

[malvolio]

Originally posted by Apple Pro Underwear:
also... after reading it again... what the f*ck? is this a scientific article or some editorial about the stereotypiing of male/female and X/Y relationships?

It's an editorial that deals with the latest scientific findings on the genetic role of the X and Y chromosomes.
Congrats, APU, on noticing the distinction between fact and opinion.

[Kilbey]

Originally posted by meelk:
Looks like another study funded to mean absolutely nothing and simply fill the time of people who get funded year after year to do such meaningless bs.

You really don't know about the Harvard President? Read the news lately?

[JohnSmithXTREME]

Overall, I found the article entertaining. Guys really can be quite gross, with their awful habits of throwing around dirty clothes and never cleaning up. However, I should point out that I've known a few girls who do the same thing... I think it has more to do with your upbringing and socio-economic background. Poor people, I've noticed, are sloppier and have lower standards of hygeine. This goes for men and women.

[malvolio]

Originally posted by JohnSmithXTREME:
Guys really can be quite gross, with their awful habits of throwing around dirty clothes and never cleaning up. However, I should point out that I've known a few girls who do the same thing...

And did those girls have large hands and Adam's apples?

[JohnSmithXTREME]

About once a week or so I get drunk and bring home a few trannies by mistake. It happens to all of us! :-P

[malvolio]

Hasn't happened to me yet.
You gotta stay just sober enough to notice those large hands & Adam's apples!

[meelk]

Originally posted by Mastrap:
Just because you don't understand it doesn't make it bs.

actually I'm pre-nursing. Its not even a matter of understanding, its simply not giving a ****. Unless you can throw enough money into a study to tell me why women break down and cry at the most amazingly stupid bs, what would I or anyone else really want to know about it? Seriously, there is so much we dont understand about the human body already just adding up something else on the list isnt getting us anywhere.

[meelk]

Originally posted by Kilbey:
You really don't know about the Harvard President? Read the news lately?

Yes, I know about the harvard president's rather easy ways of pissing off women, but does it matter in my life or yours? I dont know about you, but I am beyond caring about that kind of story exactly as I dont care what dress x star wore to x awards show. Trivial.

[meelk]

when you can identify the gene for liking to watch crappy movies on Lifetime in women and can turn it off, get back to me.

[Kilbey]

Originally posted by meelk:
Yes, I know about the harvard president's rather easy ways of pissing off women, but does it matter in my life or yours? I dont know about you, but I am beyond caring about that kind of story exactly as I dont care what dress x star wore to x awards show. Trivial.

To get you up to speed:
This article is simply a asinine rebuttal to the stupid comments of the Harvard president. I think satire would be the correct label.

I have no idea what you are referring to.

[meelk]

Originally posted by Kilbey:
To get you up to speed:
This article is simply a asinine rebuttal to the stupid comments of the Harvard president. I think satire would be the correct label.

I have no idea what you are referring to.

Again, to get you up to speed: I dont give a flip.

[malvolio]

Originally posted by Kilbey:
To get you up to speed:
This article is simply a asinine rebuttal to the stupid comments of the Harvard president. I think satire would be the correct label.

... And the point goes sailing 700,000 miles over Kilbey's head.

[Eriamjh]

Utter BS.

[Apple Pro Underwear]

Originally posted by Kilbey:
To get you up to speed:
This article is simply a asinine rebuttal to the stupid comments of the Harvard president. I think satire would be the correct label.

I have no idea what you are referring to.

i don't think they were stupid

i think BOTTOM LINE: girls are not that interested in sci-tech. it's better he said something and women can adjust if they want to.

he never said "women must do my laundry and cook me dinner"... I SAID THAT

[busterhide]

Check out the author MAUREEN DOWD. She has issues. She is famous for writing fluff that has never amounted to anything close to reality, but does bring a smile when you think "wow some people will believe just about anything. Just because it is written in a news paper." Men and women are different thank god. The differences have kept us all laughing for thousands of years. These studies are a constant source of amusement for all kinds of people to point out this or that. The bottom line always points to further studies. Keeps all those white coated people with all those letters after their names busy writing grant requests and funding there little academic empires. These studies are actually healthy for they keep the real nut cases occupied ether reading about it and getting all excited or making further studies. After all they have spent the better part of their lives going to school and then they find out they cant play with the atom smasher. Too dangerous. So to justify their existence get a Gov. grant and get your name on a paper. To hit it big find a subject that will take years and really come to no conclusion. Those lucky white coats that are into vitamin E have struck it rich. They have got years and years for further study on that. There is one thing we can all look forward to, and thats lots of further studies coming your way. Enjoy them. Your paying for them. Oh and if you don't like the results of this particular study, not to worry within 6 months a new study will come out disputing the whole thing.

[Millennium]

Genetic complexity is meaningless. Your average goldfish has more chromosomes than any human being, and yet we're certainly not genetic garbage compared to that. Why, then, compared to this?

[Apple Pro Underwear]

stupid goldfish

[Kilbey]

Originally posted by malvolio:
... And the point goes sailing 700,000 miles over Kilbey's head.

Originally posted by busterhide:
Check out the author MAUREEN DOWD. She has issues. She is famous for writing fluff that has never amounted to anything close to reality, but does bring a smile when you think "wow some people will believe just about anything. Just because it is written in a news paper." Men and women are different thank god. The differences have kept us all laughing for thousands of years. These studies are a constant source of amusement for all kinds of people to point out this or that. The bottom line always points to further studies. Keeps all those white coated people with all those letters after their names busy writing grant requests and funding there little academic empires. These studies are actually healthy for they keep the real nut cases occupied ether reading about it and getting all excited or making further studies. After all they have spent the better part of their lives going to school and then they find out they cant play with the atom smasher. Too dangerous. So to justify their existence get a Gov. grant and get your name on a paper. To hit it big find a subject that will take years and really come to no conclusion. Those lucky white coats that are into vitamin E have struck it rich. They have got years and years for further study on that. There is one thing we can all look forward to, and thats lots of further studies coming your way. Enjoy them. Your paying for them. Oh and if you don't like the results of this particular study, not to worry within 6 months a new study will come out disputing the whole thing.

[moodymonster]

Maybe its a case of people (both men and women) being more than the sum of their parts.

Is it to do with our choices, not our capabilites defining us?

Or is there more to it, something less understandable, something less tangible, something that will take a lifetime to discover?

We are 99% (or something ) gentically the same as a chimp, and 50% gentically the same as a banana - Personally I'd say we've got got more going on than a chimp, or even a banana (�just).

Then again if you've met one man, you've met them all � WTF, that article's scientific content may be accurate but its opinions aren't. Then again there are those crafty goldfish with their advanced chromosomes, and the frogs etc that change sex (!) - They're going to take over the world.

Don't forget: men aren't crafty, while women are� whatever

[beb]

What femenista loser dyke bitch wrote that piece of neurotic trash?

[sek929]

Its too bad that super-cool second X chromosome doesn't keep women from being entirely subject to their emotions. I'll keep my Y and like it thank you very much.

[JohnSmithXTREME]

Originally posted by beb:
What femenista loser dyke bitch wrote that piece of neurotic trash?

Maureen Dowd is actually a rather good journalist. She's something of a democrat, but she has broad appeal. Even George H W Bush has confessed to enjoying her articles.

[beb]

Originally posted by JohnSmithXTREME:
Maureen Dowd is actually a rather good journalist. She's something of a democrat, but she has broad appeal. Even George H W Bush has confessed to enjoying her articles.

Maybe, but her argument is entirely suspect. She sounds like she wants to support the sexual revolution with some sort of pseudo-scientific slant. To me she's brought up a non-issue that distracts attention away from real issues.

[discotronic]

Originally posted by JohnSmithXTREME:
I, JohnSmithXTREME, and all my other past names, are sloppier and have lower standards of hygiene than most (especially poor) people. This goes for men and women.

I fixed your post

I'll file what you originally stated in the complete BS drawer. I know some well off people (meaning loaded with money) that have the hygiene of a dog. Money has nothing to do with how people take care of themselves.

[JohnSmithXTREME]

Yes but you live in Virginia, US, where even rich people are rednecks. My observations come primarily from Europe, where society is more heirarchical, and those at the top tend to have better personal habits than everyone else.

[malvolio]

For those who are attacking or defending the article, please be aware that it is definitely tongue-in-cheek.
And as to its content, please read the whole freakin' thread:

Originally posted by malvolio:
It's an editorial that deals with the latest scientific findings on the genetic role of the X and Y chromosomes.

Originally posted by f1000:
Women have one X chromosome randomly deactivated in each of their somatic cells. The deactivated chromosomes are called Barr bodies. What these researchers are saying is that genes are being expressed from the Barr bodies at higher rates than first thought.