[CarpetFluff]

Originally posted by Moose:


No. It was one of the most retarded, useless, content-free posts ever. HE HE HE HE HE WINDOZE SUX0RS, DUDE!!! M$ BLOWZ!

Christ. Grow up.

I sincerely apologise for not taking the topic seriously enough Moose, this is a grave issue on a par with current world events, I am ashamed of my previous comment.

C'mon guys, this is a forum for serious debate of OS X issues, I also exaggerated a little, rather than the balancing doggie doo on my head it would be more accurate to say the real sensation is something more akin to buying 6 delicious White Castle steamed burgers and strapping them to my face with elastic bands while a small grey kitten urinates on my head but the over all effect is much the same, the dog poo reference though, is baseless I admit it.

[drmcnutt]

Originally posted by CarpetFluff:


I sincerely apologise for not taking the topic seriously enough Moose, this is a grave issue on a par with current world events, I am ashamed of my previous comment.

C'mon guys, this is a forum for serious debate of OS X issues, I also exaggerated a little, rather than the balancing doggie doo on my head it would be more accurate to say the real sensation is something more akin to buying 6 delicious White Castle steamed burgers and strapping them to my face with elastic bands while a small grey kitten urinates on my head but the over all effect is much the same, the dog poo reference though, is baseless I admit it.

Is this happening while the beachball rotates or what?

DRM

[Senior Member]

Originally posted by CarpetFluff:


...real sensation is something more akin to buying 6 delicious White Castle steamed burgers and strapping them to my face with elastic bands while a small grey kitten urinates on my head but the over all effect is much the same, the dog poo reference though, is baseless I admit it.

BWAAAAAAHAHAHAHA!! Stop it man! You're killing me!

[HiDDeN]

Originally posted by drmcnutt:


Mac looks like Amiga which OS, 9, X or a combination? Pardon my ignorance, but in keeping current with Windows 98/2000/XP and Mac OS 9/X and various applications therein I gloss over unsupported OS's these days. As I put in my post people should live in the now, not in the past. You use Mac because it reminds you of a dead operating system, not a strong case or an explanation of what I was trying to get across here. It still doesn't explain the fact that if Windows is so hard to use, why is it so predominate, When Apple was there all along? They must be doing something right, at least when it comes to ease of use.

Amiga looks like OS X only the GUI did not look as good as the one from X.
And for your information I do not use a Mac because because it reminds me of a dead operating system. (by the way, Its not actually dead YET!)
I use a mac because the Amiga community favored the mac and that made me go look for information about the mac and listen to a few mac user what their opinion whas about their macs and then I started thinking about it and about things I knew about other systems, and all of that pushed me into the direction of the mac.
I do have to say when I got my mac, It did remind me alot about my Amiga exept I did not have the luxerie of opening a shell when I needed one or the lux to multitask or use DirOpus.
All I know I do not have symphatie for a system that steels Its idea for Windows somewhere (and did a poor job building it) else, tries to monopolize everything it meets and herds its users like SHEEP!
And if you want to know my opinion about the ease of use of both systems?
Ask someone who doesn't know anything about computers and neither systems, let them use both for a few days and then ask their opinion.

[drmcnutt]

Originally posted by HiDDeN:

Amiga looks like OS X only the GUI did not look as good as the one from X.
And for your information I do not use a Mac because because it reminds me of a dead operating system. (by the way, Its not actually dead YET!)

Ask someone who doesn't know anything about computers and neither systems, let them use both for a few days and then ask their opinion.

Dead was your word. My aunts on both sides are examples of people that don't know much about computing, they use Windows and it does what they need it for. Why switch if it works for you?

Amiga worked for you, good alternative, my point originally was that windows today is an alternative that works despite the rhetoric that abounds. That a cross platform computing environment is worth having.

As for sheep, have you read some of the posts here? I'm here to learn more about OSX since my experience is mainly with OS9. I still work in this OS daily, but would like to implement OSX with Jaguar. The posts here are all about blindly defending the OS at times, complaining about speed on the "superior" GUI, complaining about Apple's business practices and in the end a knee-jerk Classic Windows sucks argument. I have learned some good things but you really have to sift through the gunk.

If people are so upset about _________(insert topic here-10.2 or 10.2.1 or Duallys or DDR implementation or Quartz Extreme or installers or moved folders or bug lists or the death of OS9 or the G5 that will save us all from the "slow" mac, but aren't they fast?) then change your computer religon affiliation and save your blood pressure cause otherwise you're the sheep (figuratively that is). If everyone is really thinking different than why so much distress? Remember "It just works" is a marketing line not a company promise.

DRM

[scott miester]

There are some great points brought out here, especially that really long one on page 1. And I have to say, I was feeling great using my Mac OS X [which I still do], but is the Windows platform stuck in 1998? No way! Comparing Windows 98 to Mac OS 7, might be more fair! Windows is releasing just as many upgrades as we are all perservering with (more actually)! I just used windows XP the other week, and for the first time I realized that Apple's great new OS is going to be copied as much as possible by the competition - isn't that the way it's always been?

[malvolio]

Originally posted by drmcnutt:


I have been trying to get across that Windows offers as much as the Mac TODAY. Not yesterday (ME), three years ago (98) or even six years ago (95).

No, it does not. I have many friends who use WinXP. I've even used it myself. The worst hardware incompatibilities and software "breakages" that ever happen in OS X would be pure paradise to WinXP users.
Believe it!

[HiDDeN]

Originally posted by drmcnutt:


Dead was your word. My aunts on both sides are examples of people that don't know much about computing, they use Windows and it does what they need it for. Why switch if it works for you?

Amiga worked for you, good alternative, my point originally was that windows today is an alternative that works despite the rhetoric that abounds. That a cross platform computing environment is worth having.



DRM

First to make things clear. I said, heading to certain death. (thats not dead yet)
But thats not important, the fakt of what your saying is that you still don't really know what or what not is better. You said it yourself, your aunts use windows. And yes, great for them that it works for them. But could it not be, that letting them use another system like OS X or even Linux or BeOS, that it could even do more for them. Every OS has its flaws or its little extra that really makes it worth while. The point is, they don't have lots of computer knowledge, but they only know windows and can't judge if what is better.
This is the perfect example of the way things go. Here in Belgium 95% of computer stores are stores that only sell Pc products with windows. The thing that happens, people only know windows and don't get the chance to learn something new. If your honest, how many windows users are there that don't even know that other computers with other Op systems exist. If you think about it, you will find that there are alot of people like this. The popularitie of windows goes years and years back from now but leave their mark on the computer industry, and things may change over the years but its not so easy to make people see the changes and try something new and let them say for themselves what they think. (Stupid but same exaple in another way: Everybody still speaks of Germans if they are still nazis, and war criminals even when the war ended almost 60 years ago. Every thing leaves its mark but that does not mean that things don't change.)
A thing as big as the computer industry does not get overthown that easy, just because something might be a bit better.
The thing is, when the Amiga whas slowing down and what looked like the death of the system, I made a choice. One I'm not sorry about.

[drmcnutt]

Originally posted by HiDDeN:


I made a choice. One I'm not sorry about.

We could go back and forth ad nauseum. But this statement is what I'm talking about. Having a choice is good for both platforms. Even if it's Windows and OSX.

DRM

[drmcnutt]

Originally posted by malvolio:

No, it does not. I have many friends who use WinXP. I've even used it myself. The worst hardware incompatibilities and software "breakages" that ever happen in OS X would be pure paradise to WinXP users.
Believe it!

True about the hardware, Microsoft isn't a hardware company of course, just software, but I can still use Streamline (4 years old and no update on the horizon) and other software like it in XP without being "forced" to upgrade all my Software titles. If you want to use older software in Classic emulation great, but from the way it sounds everyone will have a hard decision to make soon if they want to newest machines because OS 9 will be phased out by Apple. OSX doesn't support any software pre-OSX except through emulation which has inherit problems that compare (or maybe even more expensive for the user) with hardware incompatibilty. Sure one can dual boot, but really how user friendly is that? Just how expensive is it to go OSX? I know I have put a good amount out so far with more on the way.

DRM

[Brass]

Originally posted by drmcnutt:


I have been trying to get across that Windows offers as much as the Mac TODAY. Not yesterday (ME), three years ago (98) or even six years ago (95). This is about computers and the lastest and greatest is always the buzz. These platforms (XP and OSX) are now more mature than ever. Every time someone uses an example, its about older windows OS or they throw examples out the window and just say it SUX (wow what an arguement). These opinions are outdated or prejudiced or both.

But here I am trying to make arguements that aren't particularily worth my time (or any sort of need to make anyone see it my way, I'm certainly not militant about either platform, these are computers for crying out loud!). So I'll just take satisfaction in being comfortable in a cross-platform society and happy to not feel alienated (or in downright hysterics like some posters) in front of whatever computer screen I am in front of.

Cheers

DRM

I think you missed the point of my post, so let me clarify

You earlier implied (perhaps accidentally then?) that Windows' ease of use had something to do with it's current popularity. I was merely trying to point out that whether or not Windows is easy to use (debatable), it has NOTHING whatsoever to do with it's current popularity (IMHO).

I think that marketting tactics and timing are the only things that made Windows and DOS popular several years ago, and the large installed base of that time, is what makes it popular TODAY (see it is relevant to current OSs after all).

Maybe I'm completely off the mark, but that's what I reckon.

[Brass]

Originally posted by drmcnutt:


OSX doesn't support any software pre-OSX except through emulation which has inherit problems that compare (or maybe even more expensive for the user) with hardware incompatibilty. Sure one can dual boot, but really how user friendly is that? Just how expensive is it to go OSX? I know I have put a good amount out so far with more on the way.

DRM

You are showing your lack of knowledge of OS X here.

OS X does NOT run older software through emulation at all. It actually runs the older OS, not emulated, but the actual same files that the older OS boot with (with some minor changes for integration). This is completely different to emulation.

The result is that some "older software" actually runs faster in OS X than it did in the older OS. There are no problems in running the older software in Classic under OS X that aren't there when you run them natively in OS 9.

The only exceptions to this are a very few older applications that use direct hardware calls.

So far I've not come across a single older application that I've ever used that does not run perfectly in Classic.

I wouldn't call that comparable to the compatibility issues in Windows that you said are there.

Edit...

NB: I think it's obvious that I prefer Mac OS X to Windows XP, however please not that I've not been critical of Windows in my posts on these threads, as I agree with you that it has its place, and is better for some people, and criticising it just for the sake of it is pointless.

[drmcnutt]

Originally posted by Brass:


You are showing your lack of knowledge of OS X here.

As I stated before I am here to learn more about it, thanks for the clarification, I've used OSX since Jaguar came out. My question now is what will happen to OS 9 since Apple clearly wants to move on from it, will they always support Classic? The hardware support of Classic is it as shaky as I've heard?

DRM

[Brass]

Originally posted by drmcnutt:


As I stated before I am here to learn more about it, thanks for the clarification, I've used OSX since Jaguar came out. My question now is what will happen to OS 9 since Apple clearly wants to move on from it, will they always support Classic? The hardware support of Classic is it as shaky as I've heard?

DRM

I've heard of some people having problems with harware support in Classic, but I've had no problems. However, I've not had a lot of experience with using Classic for hardware dependant things. Only for scanning with an old scanner which was not supported with Mac OS X. I've had no problems with that.

No-one really knows what will happen to Classic. My guess would be that it would stop being included in new versions of OS X in about 3 to 5 years, and would become unsupported when the last version of OS X to include it becomes unsupported. But that's just a guess.

Personally, the sooner we're rid of Classic the better, but I know that other people still depend on it.

[S|ntax]

Originally posted by Moose:
we still use IBM AS/400s for our policy/claims/billing/accounting/payroll systems, but are in the beginning stages of migrating everything off of it

sagitta? our sagitta systems all use as/400s that is why i am curious, what are you switching too? not applied i hope.

back to topic at hand... some of you guys are amazing. reading thru pc hardware forum like i have been for ages i always thought they were the most closeminded *******s, "mac sux0rs" and other annoying phrases, but some of the people here take the cake. Windows too complicated? So set in your one button way that you can't handle what 6 and 7 year old childern do? Instead of throwing the towel in and calling any os other then osx a peice of crap take a set back load whatever updates are on the windows update and try again. Windows may not be as pretty as OSX but it works for 90+% of the world, why are you having so many troubles with it.

[CarpetFluff]

Originally posted by S|ntax:


sagitta? our sagitta systems all use as/400s that is why i am curious, what are you switching too? not applied i hope.

back to topic at hand... some of you guys are amazing. reading thru pc hardware forum like i have been for ages i always thought they were the most closeminded *******s, "mac sux0rs" and other annoying phrases, but some of the people here take the cake. Windows too complicated? So set in your one button way that you can't handle what 6 and 7 year old childern do? Instead of throwing the towel in and calling any os other then osx a peice of crap take a set back load whatever updates are on the windows update and try again. Windows may not be as pretty as OSX but it works for 90+% of the world, why are you having so many troubles with it.

I work on both platforms and I design interfaces so I feel I can speak with some authority on this. I can get along with Windows fine but it would never be my platform of choice. Unlike OS X (or 9 for that matter) Windows always seems like it's in my face, when really and truly I just want to ignore the operating system and get on with what I want to do.

I've known so many people say to me that they hate using macs, and I completetly understand this but in my opinion it's mostly because they are used to Windows and are loathe to change, the benefits of Mac OS aren't always immediate and few people would be prepared to give it a chance when they already know how to use Windows.

I find I myself get this with simple things like computer games, I played Wolfenstein for ages and then bought Medal of Honor but I was kind of loathe to have to re-learn the controls and limitations of what really are quite similar games but when you get past that transition faze you realise a lot of things are better. Competition however is healthy, if there was just Mac OS it would suck becuase there would be no reason to improve, the problem as I see it is that Microsoft have a far too dominant position and this is bad for the consumer. Although I sometimes feel that because Apple have to try 10 times harder than Microsoft it makes things better for mac users.

I think that a lot of PC users are mindless drones (not because they're using PCs, simply because a lot of people 'are' mindless drones). They buy and use a PC because they are ubiquitous, they do not make an informed choice. I think it's a lot less likely you'll find an uninformed mac user, you usually have to know why you're choosing to buy a mac, (the same goes for Linux I guess) if people choose Windows through an informed choice then that's great but I suspect the majority of people don't.

[Moose]

Originally posted by S|ntax:


sagitta? our sagitta systems all use as/400s that is why i am curious, what are you switching too? not applied i hope.

Our internal systems are all written in-house. We interface with Applied and AMS, because that's what our agency plant uses. It's fun.

[snerdini]

Originally posted by S|ntax:

some of you guys are amazing. reading thru pc hardware forum like i have been for ages i always thought they were the most closeminded *******s, "mac sux0rs" and other annoying phrases, but some of the people here take the cake. Windows too complicated? So set in your one button way that you can't handle what 6 and 7 year old childern do? Instead of throwing the towel in and calling any os other then osx a peice of crap take a set back load whatever updates are on the windows update and try again. Windows may not be as pretty as OSX but it works for 90+% of the world, why are you having so many troubles with it.

It's not that Windows is too complicated, it's that its counterintuitive. For example, in Windows: open My Computer and you see all of your drives. I don't give a damn about my drives, I care about the volumes in my drives. This causes confusion on machines that have alot of removable drives. E:? R:? People do not think this way, until they get forced into the MS mindset.

[HiDDeN]

Originally posted by CarpetFluff:


I work on both platforms and I design interfaces so I feel I can speak with some authority on this. I can get along with Windows fine but it would never be my platform of choice. Unlike OS X (or 9 for that matter) Windows always seems like it's in my face, when really and truly I just want to ignore the operating system and get on with what I want to do.

I've known so many people say to me that they hate using macs, and I completetly understand this but in my opinion it's mostly because they are used to Windows and are loathe to change, the benefits of Mac OS aren't always immediate and few people would be prepared to give it a chance when they already know how to use Windows.

I find I myself get this with simple things like computer games, I played Wolfenstein for ages and then bought Medal of Honor but I was kind of loathe to have to re-learn the controls and limitations of what really are quite similar games but when you get past that transition faze you realise a lot of things are better. Competition however is healthy, if there was just Mac OS it would suck becuase there would be no reason to improve, the problem as I see it is that Microsoft have a far too dominant position and this is bad for the consumer. Although I sometimes feel that because Apple have to try 10 times harder than Microsoft it makes things better for mac users.

I think that a lot of PC users are mindless drones (not because they're using PCs, simply because a lot of people 'are' mindless drones). They buy and use a PC because they are ubiquitous, they do not make an informed choice. I think it's a lot less likely you'll find an uninformed mac user, you usually have to know why you're choosing to buy a mac, (the same goes for Linux I guess) if people choose Windows through an informed choice then that's great but I suspect the majority of people don't.

My point exactly!!!
Like I mentioned in an earlier mail, 95% of computer stores here in Belgium are stores that only sell PC's and Microsoft windows and all the other software round it. People don't even get the chance to explore other systems they take the most obvious one. I pretty sure that more then 60% of PC users don't even know other systems exist, and many of the ones that do know simply go along with microsoft because they are forsed to use it at work or the simple thing that almost everybody they know uses it.

[Nonsuch]

Originally posted by CarpetFluff:

I think that a lot of PC users are mindless drones (not because they're using PCs, simply because a lot of people 'are' mindless drones). They buy and use a PC because they are ubiquitous, they do not make an informed choice. I think it's a lot less likely you'll find an uninformed mac user, you usually have to know why you're choosing to buy a mac, (the same goes for Linux I guess) if people choose Windows through an informed choice then that's great but I suspect the majority of people don't.

Nicely said. That's more or less what I've found too: Mac users aren't always the most technically savvy, but they have at least made an informed choice about the platform they use.

[dawho9]

Originally posted by snerdini:


It's not that Windows is too complicated, it's that its counterintuitive. For example, in Windows: open My Computer and you see all of your drives. I don't give a damn about my drives, I care about the volumes in my drives. This causes confusion on machines that have alot of removable drives. E:? R:? People do not think this way, until they get forced into the MS mindset.

Huh, volumes in my drives? What exactly are you getting at. How else would you want to present this information. One of the things that have always disliked about the MacOS is how all drives (volumes) get mounted on the desktop. If I put a CD in, I know its there. I don't need an icon on my desktop. The MacOS can get just as counterintuitive. I have my floppy, two CD-ROM drives, Zip, DLT and other network volumes mounted and my desktop looks like it crapped itself.

At work this setup is almost unusable. As the network administrator, at any given time I can have up to 38 servers, multiply volumes per server. I would go crazy.

dw9

[Brass]

Originally posted by dawho9:


Huh, volumes in my drives? What exactly are you getting at. How else would you want to present this information. One of the things that have always disliked about the MacOS is how all drives (volumes) get mounted on the desktop. If I put a CD in, I know its there. I don't need an icon on my desktop. The MacOS can get just as counterintuitive. I have my floppy, two CD-ROM drives, Zip, DLT and other network volumes mounted and my desktop looks like it crapped itself.

At work this setup is almost unusable. As the network administrator, at any given time I can have up to 38 servers, multiply volumes per server. I would go crazy.

dw9

At least in Mac OS X you have the choice of which way you want to do it, which you dont' have in Windows.

By default, all volumes appear on the desktop. This makes things obvious to newbies. Personally, I don't have hard drives on the desk top, only removable media (but this can be turned off too, if you wish).

This is sensible, because if you insert a disk, you're likely to want to do somehting with it soon afterwards, so it's on the desktop where it's easy to get at. You don't have to open "My Computer" first.

With windows, I have to create a link to each drive on the desktop to get the same fast access, but then I've got wasted icons on the desktop when there's no disk in the drive because Windows doesn't recognise volumes as such... only the drives which can contain volumes.

[Deal]

If anybody reads this many posts....

I use/fix/install everything at work. Win95, Win 98, Win NT, Win 2000, Win XP, and Mac OS 9 and X.

When I buy a PCI card for my Mac, I plug it in and it works. When I buy a PCI card for a PC, I go through all the documentation to make sure it's compatible. Then go through the trouble of removing the screws and put it in. (the one I worked on yesterday had such a horrible case I couldn't find the second hard drive through all the cables inside. Somehow the IDE cable had fallen off the drive. Also, the CD drive was bad and I had to remove all the cards and pull out the motherboard so I could remove the screws to get he CD drive out. Real fun). Then you pray it doesn't conflict with all the other cards in it. Most of the time it will work. The rest of the time you spend finding out why it doesn't. In a Mac it just works.

How about OS. With all the gui that MS stole from Mac, it does look nice. But why hide the hard drive? Why have a MyComputer in the first place? Don't you know your on your computer? Why have a folder that you open and have to click on "show contents"? Why does everything take an extra 2 steps? Go ahead and change the IP settings on a PC and count the steps. Then do it on a Mac and count the steps. How about adding a network printer. How about logging on to a server. Go ahead, count the steps.

Now lets talk about loading drivers. Lets talk about Epson printer drivers (it's fresh in my mind because I just did this on both). Go to Epson's web site, choose drivers and choose a printer. If you have a PC there are drivers for win 95/98 to download, and a patch, and a network utility. Then there's a 2000 driver and a patch, and an NT driver and patch, and an XP driver and patch, and network utilities for NT/2000, and network utilities for XP. Oh, and at the bottom there is a Mac OS 9 and earlier Driver and a Mac OS X driver. When you down load this it has everything you need to set it up and it works on network or local. There is a patch to fix a problem with MS word on the Mac. Thanks Microsoft.

Now lets talk about network printing on an NT network. Lets see, first hire a large IT department to setup print servers. Then give every printer an obscure name so everything can be made easy for the IT department and hard for all the users (because everybody likes to print to LN1000865). Then if it runs out of paper the print server gets the an error message and the user sits there wondering why their print doesn�t come out. Or use a Mac and print via apple talk and skip the print servers all together. Or just type in the IP in OS X and print directly to it. Wait till rendezvous!

What can I rant about next. Try burning a movie to DVD on a PC (I'll say a prayer for ya). Try plugging in a digital camera and download your prints without loading a driver. On OS X I'm looking at them before you can drag them around on a PC. Try making a movie with your home videos and re export it to a VCR tape to mail off to Grandma. At our fantasy football draft the guy with the PC laptop was running back and forth trying to figure out if his wireless hub was working. I pulled down my airport menu and selected his network and was on.

How about new technology. Intel and friend invented USB and couldn't get anybody to adopt the technology. Apple comes along and says, here's USB, and there it was. If it weren't for Apple, USB would still be a pipe dream for PC users. How about FireWire. I everyone planning to buy a home entertainment system takes a look at the new systems with firewire. Everything is daisy chained with firewire. NO MESS. Thanks Apple.

Why does Microsoft use that shade of blue in Xp? Why did they name it XP? Does anybody else see the resemblance? Why was there an eMachine? Why are there so many ipod like MP3 players? Where did Gateway get the idea to make an all in one PC with a flat screen? Why are there so many PC laptops metal gray in color?

Well, I'm spent. I've worked on too many PCs today. I sure am glad to be on my Mac.

By the Way...
I have read many posts here. Knowing this is a Mac website, Mac forum, and Mac OS thread would leave me to believe people reading (and posting) use Macs.

Now go to a PC web site and to a PC forum and read a windows thread. How many Mac advocates would be posting there? NONE! Because there are no Mac users who are psycho

[Brass]

Originally posted by Deal:
If anybody reads this many posts....

I use/fix/install everything at work. Win95, Win 98, Win NT, Win 2000, Win XP, and Mac OS 9 and X.

When I buy a PCI card for my Mac, I plug it in and it works. When I buy a PCI card for a PC, I go through all the documentation to make sure it's compatible. Then go through the trouble of removing the screws and put it in. (the one I worked on yesterday had such a horrible case I couldn't find the second hard drive through all the cables inside. Somehow the IDE cable had fallen off the drive. Also, the CD drive was bad and I had to remove all the cards and pull out the motherboard so I could remove the screws to get he CD drive out. Real fun). Then you pray it doesn't conflict with all the other cards in it. Most of the time it will work. The rest of the time you spend finding out why it doesn't. In a Mac it just works.

How about OS. With all the gui that MS stole from Mac, it does look nice. But why hide the hard drive? Why have a MyComputer in the first place? Don't you know your on your computer? Why have a folder that you open and have to click on "show contents"? Why does everything take an extra 2 steps? Go ahead and change the IP settings on a PC and count the steps. Then do it on a Mac and count the steps. How about adding a network printer. How about logging on to a server. Go ahead, count the steps.

Now lets talk about loading drivers. Lets talk about Epson printer drivers (it's fresh in my mind because I just did this on both). Go to Epson's web site, choose drivers and choose a printer. If you have a PC there are drivers for win 95/98 to download, and a patch, and a network utility. Then there's a 2000 driver and a patch, and an NT driver and patch, and an XP driver and patch, and network utilities for NT/2000, and network utilities for XP. Oh, and at the bottom there is a Mac OS 9 and earlier Driver and a Mac OS X driver. When you down load this it has everything you need to set it up and it works on network or local. There is a patch to fix a problem with MS word on the Mac. Thanks Microsoft.

Now lets talk about network printing on an NT network. Lets see, first hire a large IT department to setup print servers. Then give every printer an obscure name so everything can be made easy for the IT department and hard for all the users (because everybody likes to print to LN1000865). Then if it runs out of paper the print server gets the an error message and the user sits there wondering why their print doesn�t come out. Or use a Mac and print via apple talk and skip the print servers all together. Or just type in the IP in OS X and print directly to it. Wait till rendezvous!

What can I rant about next. Try burning a movie to DVD on a PC (I'll say a prayer for ya). Try plugging in a digital camera and download your prints without loading a driver. On OS X I'm looking at them before you can drag them around on a PC. Try making a movie with your home videos and re export it to a VCR tape to mail off to Grandma. At our fantasy football draft the guy with the PC laptop was running back and forth trying to figure out if his wireless hub was working. I pulled down my airport menu and selected his network and was on.

How about new technology. Intel and friend invented USB and couldn't get anybody to adopt the technology. Apple comes along and says, here's USB, and there it was. If it weren't for Apple, USB would still be a pipe dream for PC users. How about FireWire. I everyone planning to buy a home entertainment system takes a look at the new systems with firewire. Everything is daisy chained with firewire. NO MESS. Thanks Apple.

Why does Microsoft use that shade of blue in Xp? Why did they name it XP? Does anybody else see the resemblance? Why was there an eMachine? Why are there so many ipod like MP3 players? Where did Gateway get the idea to make an all in one PC with a flat screen? Why are there so many PC laptops metal gray in color?

Well, I'm spent. I've worked on too many PCs today. I sure am glad to be on my Mac.

By the Way...
I have read many posts here. Knowing this is a Mac website, Mac forum, and Mac OS thread would leave me to believe people reading (and posting) use Macs.

Now go to a PC web site and to a PC forum and read a windows thread. How many Mac advocates would be posting there? NONE! Because there are no Mac users who are psycho

Well, that was less than objective! But apart from the subjectiveness, its was also factually very correct, and well detailed. Some good arguments!

I particularly agree with the "number of steps to do a simple task" comparison between Mac OS and Windows. However, I Think OS X is worse than OS 9 in this respect - I hope they improve things a bit there.

[Sharky K.]

small but funny thing: we all got laptops with windows xp pro here at the university including a free mouse. On Windows xp you need to install drivers and it does not work perfectly on almost all computers so some people thing it is hardware related... I plug "a defect mouse" in my Powerbook and I work with it a day without any problem or drivers that need to be installed.

[clebin]

Originally posted by drmcnutt:


I have been trying to get across that Windows offers as much as the Mac TODAY. Not yesterday (ME), three years ago (98) or even six years ago (95). This is about computers and the lastest and greatest is always the buzz. These platforms (XP and OSX) are now more mature than ever. Every time someone uses an example, its about older windows OS or they throw examples out the window and just say it SUX (wow what an arguement). These opinions are outdated or prejudiced or both.

Cheers

DRM

Well if you ask me, Windows has actually started getting worse.

ME was worse than 98 and XP is worse than Windows 2000. In fact, Win2K Service Pack 3 has cheapened the OS a touch by introducing some intrusive Windows Update functionality.

It's clear that the Windows UI seems to have matured as far as it can go, and all Microsoft can do now is to introduce so-called helpful features which pop-up when you don't want them - such as the Desktop Cleanup Wizard (wha!?), Passport and Update reminders, Personalised Menus, etc, etc.

Existing functionality that worked well now requires extra steps due to this pathological helpfulness.

Office set the precedent of feature-creep. Wouldn't be cuddly and helpful, they said, if we introduced a cartoon paperclip to talk to users. But, of course, most people wanted to kill the cartoon paper clip.

Now every release of Windows and Office seems to have something new to switch off - if it's possible, and if you can find the preference setting..

Exactly what Microsoft are going to do to justify the next release, I can't imagine. Oh that's right, they don't have to - the new licensing model has seen to that..

Chris

[CarpetFluff]

Originally posted by clebin:


Well if you ask me, Windows has actually started getting worse.

ME was worse than 98 and XP is worse than Windows 2000. In fact, Win2K Service Pack 3 has cheapened the OS a touch by introducing some intrusive Windows Update functionality.

It's clear that the Windows UI seems to have matured as far as it can go, and all Microsoft can do now is to introduce so-called helpful features which pop-up when you don't want them - such as the Desktop Cleanup Wizard (wha!?), Passport and Update reminders, Personalised Menus, etc, etc.

Existing functionality that worked well now requires extra steps due to this pathological helpfulness.

Office set the precedent of feature-creep. Wouldn't be cuddly and helpful, they said, if we introduced a cartoon paperclip to talk to users. But, of course, most people wanted to kill the cartoon paper clip.

Now every release of Windows and Office seems to have something new to switch off - if it's possible, and if you can find the preference setting..

Exactly what Microsoft are going to do to justify the next release, I can't imagine. Oh that's right, they don't have to - the new licensing model has seen to that..

Chris

The new version of Windows will 'protect' us from all the evils of the internet.

Microsoft's days of innovation are over, as far as I can see they are now just a bunch of very greedy crooks who will try every shadey trick they can to hold on to the monopoly they've created except for actually making a better product. In fact I don't think they have the desire to do this at all, they seem more focused on blocking the innovations of others than coming up with something original.

[HiDDeN]

Originally posted by CarpetFluff:


The new version of Windows will 'protect' us from all the evils of the internet.

Microsoft's days of innovation are over, as far as I can see they are now just a bunch of very greedy crooks who will try every shadey trick they can to hold on to the monopoly they've created except for actually making a better product. In fact I don't think they have the desire to do this at all, they seem more focused on blocking the innovations of others than coming up with something original.

Very very true!!!
They don't care anymore about actually improving and if they do so it will only by stealing others ideas and trying to keep the monopoly.