[amsalpemkcus]

here is one!

[Zimphire]

Yup, that is how they run. You use the spoiler to pull it back and watch it go. VRoOOOoooom.

And as everyone knows, that car has enough power to require quad mufflers.

[scaught]

heres my question...

do they do that cause they think it will go faster or just to live out some sort of anime fantasy?

one i could live with more than the other...

[Sealobo]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
And as everyone knows, that car has enough power to require quad mufflers.

It actually has 5, the original one is still there...

[clod]

Originally posted by scaught:
heres my question...

do they do that cause they think it will go faster or just to live out some sort of anime fantasy?

one i could live with more than the other...

fantasy. All that stuff doesn't help performance at all. One time I saw a ricer that had 6 fake mufflers and no real ones so it was not only loud, but it couldn't accelerate for sh�t.

[scaught]

are those matching fire extinguishers in the back window?

all that fiberglass is probably pretty flammable...he must be a boyscout.

[scaught]

Originally posted by clod:
fantasy. All that stuff doesn't help performance at all. One time I saw a ricer that had 6 fake mufflers and no real ones so it was not only loud, but it couldn't accelerate for sh�t.

well, obviously its a fantasy.

but has anyone actually talked to one of those ricer kids enough to figure out whether or not they actually think it does something to performance? obviously theyre deluded, but are they SERIOUSLY deluded? thats the question.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by scaught:
are those matching fire extinguishers in the back window?

all that fiberglass is probably pretty flammable...he must be a boyscout.

Or he has NOS. Typical for rice boys.

[Vanquish]

I always laugh at them, some of those guys are impressed when I'm faster with my 333bhp 745i then their pathetic Seat Ibiza "Evo 1" TDI (115 bhp diesel engine) (you have to see their faces ) which has tons of plastic, spoilers, soundsystems and god knows what else. If a friend came to me with that kind of car and he would ask me: shall we take a ride ? Ill never accept that offer, no way you'll see me in one of those "things".

[Sealobo]

check out the front too...

[Vanquish]

That car must be REAL fast....

[Zimphire]

Ahah he has it lowered, then puts step up bars to get into the car like trucks.

And I am sure that hood vent does nothing.

[G4ME]

comdey gold

theres a Neon around campus that i have seen more then once that has the full nine yards, racing stripe its got the cheap air damn in he front, crappy rims, spoiler, the fake NOS tank on the windshild piller, the fancy seat covers to make it look like its got the racing seats, he redid the dials and dash board, and the best thing about the car, its and automatic.

I was gonna grab some pics but he move by the time i came back with my camrea.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by G4ME:
comdey gold

theres a Neon around campus that i have seen more then once that has the full nine yards, racing stripe its got the cheap air damn in he front, crappy rims, spoiler, the fake NOS tank on the windshild piller, the fancy seat covers to make it look like its got the racing seats, he redid the dials and dash board, and the best thing about the car, its and automatic.

I was gonna grab some pics but he move by the time i came back with my camrea.

Please do! I wanna see this car and laugh at it. If it's not a ACR or R/T it doesn't have factory stripes. Only factory stripes ad horsepower.

[Nimisys]

there was a chick ion our auto class who thought she was baddass because of her built up civic: strtut bar, intake, head swap, exhast, headers, etc. then she volunteered it to be used as an examples for some demos.

what peice of **** that thing was. her headswap was done so piss pourly she had no compression on cylinder 1 and the opther 3 were low, here intake had some big unplug holes in the pipe alklowing unfiltered air in, here PCV system wasn't hooked up, exhast manifold had no gasket and was leaking, overall system was too large so she wasn't getting any backpressure, strut bar was loose. hell even the body kit wasn't fitted correctly.

never saw her or here car again after that day

[Subzero Diesel949]

Don't you know that spoiler adds 50 whp?

[Fyre4ce]

OK, so I'm not the only one who thinks that stuff is stupid. I love it, a FRONT WHEEL DRIVE car with a spoiler on the rear. I will admit there are a few nicely done-up "rice rockets," but I have trouble taking most any "performance" japanese car seriously after seeing some of the stuff that's driving around.

Here's something I don't get either: wouldn't it make more sense to put your money into the powertrain first, and then worry about the physical appearence? I would rather have a suped up sleeper car than an econobox made to look like a race car.

[Subzero Diesel949]

Agreed...

There's a fine line between looking good and looking distasteful.

[nonhuman]

Originally posted by Fyre4ce:
OK, so I'm not the only one who thinks that stuff is stupid. I love it, a FRONT WHEEL DRIVE car with a spoiler on the rear. I will admit there are a few nicely done-up "rice rockets," but I have trouble taking most any "performance" japanese car seriously after seeing some of the stuff that's driving around.

Here's something I don't get either: wouldn't it make more sense to put your money into the powertrain first, and then worry about the physical appearence? I would rather have a suped up sleeper car than an econobox made to look like a race car.

Um, where else would you put a spoiler? A wing should go over the drive wheels, but a spoiler is useless if it's not in the back.

[olePigeon]

My brother bought a 68 Camero for $1200 on eBay. Geeze what a piece of sh*t, but he bought it for two things: 388 HP and a good frame (fixing it up.)

The idle was so low you were lucky to get it to start if it wasn't rolling already, but damn was it fast. Assuming it didn't stall, he left ricerockets at the line by the time he was 2 streets down.

68 Camero + 388HP + car alarms = lots of fun watching people run out of their houses.

[Nimisys]

Originally posted by nonhuman:


Um, where else would you put a spoiler? A wing should go over the drive wheels, but a spoiler is useless if it's not in the back.

you can have front spoilers, they just look different and are on the front lip. forutnitly with everey FWD vehicle i have seen the engine is always ahead of the front tires so all its wieght is onthem anyways

when i asked one ricer what was up witht he wing ont he back of his civic, his reply was helps with stability and oversteer.

too bad its gonna take much smaller rear tires than his fronts to develop anything near oversteer in a civic.

[cjrivera]

Originally posted by nonhuman:


Um, where else would you put a spoiler? A wing should go over the drive wheels, but a spoiler is useless if it's not in the back.

I think the Lamborghini's back in the 80's had a spoiler on the front. But then again you're talking about a car that actually goes fast and would need increased downward forces on the front for handling at high speeds, not a riceburner.

[G4Y]

If the car had a bodykit, spoiler, and huge rims, its a piece of crap.

HOWEVER, you can make a FWD car into one thats fun to drive. Follow these simple steps:

1. Remove all badging.
2. Purchase some plus 1 or plus 2 size alloys and get some NICe tires. TASTEFUL IS KEY. SUBTLE IS KEY.
3. New struts (konis or KYB GR2s)
4. Exhaust (not ricey crap, get a QUIET exhaust system that decreases back pressure)
5. Strut bars are cheap.
6. Intake
7. UDP
8. DONT LOWER IT.
9. Bigger swaybars.

It'd be fun.

- Ca$h

[Fyre4ce]

A Civic would not be having problems with oversteer. In fact they understeer like a mother****er. All the spoiler does is add drag. And come to think of it, those big aftermarket rims just add unsprung mass and inertia. So it's probably true that most "rice rockets" are actually slower than their unmodified brethren!!

[G4Y]

Tis true my friend. I know back in the day I lined up against a Z24 cavalier. According to the stats, he should have marginally been faster than my neon. However, thanks to his gigantic chrome wheels, huge spoiler, huge stereo system, and cowl induction hood, I was easily able to pass his ass with a quickness.

- Ca$h

[sek929]

Cars like that make me wanna get an MR2 Spyder even more. Just to dust their cheesy lookin asses in a way better car that gets just as good mileage, etc, etc...

I'll take a nice RX-7 too, and you better believe I wouldn't put 8 exhaust tips on it.

[PowerMatt]

I just love the physics. Hot rodders put a spoiler (wing) on the rear of their car to increase the drag on the rear of the car keeping the drive wheels sealed to the ground to increase traction. Ricers install the wing to increase drag on the rear of the car causing the front end to rise thus decreasing traction. THe extra 75 lbs. probably doesn't help matters much either.

Cash is right. FWD cars can be enjoyable to drive with a few, unseen modifications. What bothers me is when kids pull up next to my friends Chevelle SS 454 with a CRX with 500 lbs. of crap on it then rev their lawnmower sounding exhaust. He stays even with until about 45mph, then downshifts and watches their blue headlights disappear in the smoke. Its quite beautiful.

[G4Y]

Like my last FWD car.



Rims. Struts. Strut bars. Stiff motor mounts. Factory DOHC exhaust. Upgraded lighting (not fake HID crap), debadged, de pinstriped, and a blast to drive.

- Ca$h

[Nimisys]

or slightly modified celica gt-s's... saw of few of those out on the track during the summer.

[Millennium]

http://www.beaterz.com

Lots and lots of ricer ridicule.

However, I'm not sure how Ca$h is going to take their splash graphic...

[G4Y]

Look at the radiator support. Looks like a metal honda logo. NO WONDER NEONS ARE FAST!

- Ca$h

[nonhuman]

Ok, spoilers are not used to create a downward force over the wheels to increase traction, they are used to create turbulence (thus spoiling the air) behind the car in a race so that other cars don't gain an advantage by tailgating. Therefore, a front spoiler doesn't make sense. Wings are what you use to increase your traction, you put them over the drive wheels so that a FWD car has a front wing and a RWD car has a rear wing. Rear wings will often function as spoilers as well, but they are not the same thing.

[G4Y]

Well, in either case all WINGS/SPOILERS etc on a production car do NOTHING. Well. 99.9% of them do nothing.

- Ca$h

[PowerMatt]

Originally posted by nonhuman:
Ok, spoilers are not used to create a downward force over the wheels to increase traction, they are used to create turbulence (thus spoiling the air) behind the car in a race so that other cars don't gain an advantage by tailgating. Therefore, a front spoiler doesn't make sense. Wings are what you use to increase your traction, you put them over the drive wheels so that a FWD car has a front wing and a RWD car has a rear wing. Rear wings will often function as spoilers as well, but they are not the same thing.

Sorry for the overgeneralization. My point remains, no matter what you call them, they slow the car down.

[Steve]

Originally posted by G4Y:
If the car had a bodykit, spoiler, and huge rims, its a piece of crap.

HOWEVER, you can make a FWD car into one thats fun to drive. Follow these simple steps:

1. Remove all badging.
2. Purchase some plus 1 or plus 2 size alloys and get some NICe tires. TASTEFUL IS KEY. SUBTLE IS KEY.
3. New struts (konis or KYB GR2s)
4. Exhaust (not ricey crap, get a QUIET exhaust system that decreases back pressure)
5. Strut bars are cheap.
6. Intake
7. UDP
8. DONT LOWER IT.
9. Bigger swaybars.

It'd be fun.

- Ca$h

I agree with your other steps to making a FWD car 'fun to drive,' except for #8.

I know in the few cars I've driven/owned, the BEST mod I've ever done is dropped the car on high quality coilovers or a nice cup kit. It makes the car much more fun than anything else you can (realistically) do.

Any car I get, the first mod is suspension. Everything else comes after.

BTW, is everyone with a modded car prepped for winter? I've got my coilovers back up to a slight drop, put my 14" steelies back on (with winter tires) and did a nice, winter tune up

[Sealobo]

Originally posted by G4Y:
Like my last FWD car.



Rims. Struts. Strut bars. Stiff motor mounts. Factory DOHC exhaust. Upgraded lighting (not fake HID crap), debadged, de pinstriped, and a blast to drive.

- Ca$h

DOHC exhaust?

[Nimisys]

i think its slightly larger piping, but there is no reason for it... you need backpressure in non forced induction situations

[Sealobo]

Originally posted by G4Y:
If the car had a bodykit, spoiler, and huge rims, its a piece of crap.

HOWEVER, you can make a FWD car into one thats fun to drive. Follow these simple steps:

1. Remove all badging.
2. Purchase some plus 1 or plus 2 size alloys and get some NICe tires. TASTEFUL IS KEY. SUBTLE IS KEY.
3. New struts (konis or KYB GR2s)
4. Exhaust (not ricey crap, get a QUIET exhaust system that decreases back pressure)
5. Strut bars are cheap.
6. Intake
7. UDP
8. DONT LOWER IT.
9. Bigger swaybars.

It'd be fun.

- Ca$h

1: how is this going to affect the fun-factor?
2: not true if the car is already under powered, like a base neon.
3: true.
4: true.
5. true.
6. maybe.
7. (sorry, but what is this?)
8. this is nonsense... then what about #3? so now you have a shorter shocks travel with the original spring rate???
9. probably true if both 3. and 8. are done right.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by G4Y:
If the car had a bodykit, spoiler, and huge rims, its a piece of crap.

HOWEVER, you can make a FWD car into one thats fun to drive. Follow these simple steps:

1. Remove all badging.

Why?

2. Purchase some plus 1 or plus 2 size alloys and get some NICe tires. TASTEFUL IS KEY. SUBTLE IS KEY.

Nice tires I understand, larger rims a lot of the times means slower startup.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by G4Y:
Tis true my friend. I know back in the day I lined up against a Z24 cavalier. According to the stats, he should have marginally been faster than my neon. However, thanks to his gigantic chrome wheels, huge spoiler, huge stereo system, and cowl induction hood, I was easily able to pass his ass with a quickness.

- Ca$h

Z24s are about equal to the 5sp DOHC. I beleive the R/T did the 0-60 faster.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by sealobo:


DOHC exhaust?

Some Neon Sport/Expresso's had a DOHC motor. The R/Ts and ACRs for the most part were all DOHC motors. They had a muffler in them that was better than the SOHC muffler system. This has become to be known as the "DOHC muffler" The muffler itself doesn't have Dual overhead cams.

Originally posted by sealobo:


1: how is this going to affect the fun-factor?
2: not true if the car is already under powered, like a base neon.

Even if it's a higher end Neon like the R/T. Cars that weren't meant for 16" or 17" wheels usually get slower when adding them. IMHO of course. I think I will keep the aluminum wheels my R/T came with.

3: true.
4: true.
5. true.

6. maybe.

A cold air intake will add a good amount of HP. In some cases 10hp is added.
7. (sorry, but what is this?)[/quote][/b
Under drive pully. Something I wouldn't add unless I was racing.

[dillerX]

I am waiting for the day when i see a wing like this on a Neon.

[Steve]

But the thing is, that wing is actually extremely useful and actually essential for the type of racing the cars do.

Neons don't do any of that kind of racing, and it's completely unneccesary.

[dillerX]

Originally posted by Steve:
But the thing is, that wing is actually extremely useful and actually essential for the type of racing the cars do.

Neons don't do any of that kind of racing, and it's completely unneccesary.

Duh.

[G4Y]

Originally posted by Steve:
I know in the few cars I've driven/owned, the BEST mod I've ever done is dropped the car on high quality coilovers or a nice cup kit. It makes the car much more fun than anything else you can (realistically) do.

Any car I get, the first mod is suspension. Everything else comes after.

And I'll respectfully disagree with you. From all my experiences, lowering a car does a number of things:

1. Lowers the CG, SLIGHTLY. Makes it more fun to drive
2. Gives your wheels some camber, but most of the time WAY TOO MUCh, which makes it more fun on corners...

HOWEVER, I think both of those are EASILY negated by the downsides of lowereing a car which are:
1. SHITTY RIDE. I've never been in a lowered car that felt nice, they've all been somewhat jarring
2. Goodbye struts... yep, unless you buy struts that were made SPECIFICALLY for a lowered car you're going to bottom them out often and need new struts every 30-40,000 miles.
3. Crappy tire wear: Since you're riding on the inside edges of all your tires they wear funny, and wear out more quickly. Tires are kinda $$$ so no thank you.
4. Reduced acceleration and braking. (this is due to the cambered wheels, there's now a smaller contact patch when accelerating in a straight line or braking in a straight line)

So all in all, I really don't think its worth it. If you can find really STIFF springs, like mopar hi-rates, get those. They lower your car about 1/2" and they're WAY more stiff.

- Ca$h

[G4Y]

Originally posted by Nimisys:
i think its slightly larger piping, but there is no reason for it... you need backpressure in non forced induction situations

Its been proven on a dyno that slapping a DOHC muffler on a SOHC neon gives it about 6-8 hp with no negative side effects (such as noise, etc.. actually improves MPG too)

- Ca$h

[G4Y]

Originally posted by sealobo:


1: how is this going to affect the fun-factor?

It wouldn't but it makes it look better.

2: not true if the car is already under powered, like a base neon.

Bullshit. Base neons are NOT underpowered. My base neon has beaten many a Mustang GTs, 3000GTs, and countless Civics, integras, hell, even an integra GSR. THOSE cars are underpowered (except for the GSR, I think the guy just couldn't drive).

3: true.
4: true.
5. true.
6. maybe.
7. (sorry, but what is this?)

Underdrive pulley. It underdrives all your accessories (power steering, A/C, alternator) by like 20% so you don't notice any difference..however, since its turning them more slowly, you gain a few hp at the wheels. It basically moves some of hte power around from the accessories to the wheels.

8. this is nonsense... then what about #3? so now you have a shorter shocks travel with the original spring rate???

I'm not sure about other cars, but neither Konis nor KYB GR2s have a shorter travel. You do realize different struts have different characteristics right? Like how stiff they are, how quickly they return tothe extended position, etc etc etc. The KYBs I bought for my neon were externally identical to my stock struts except for the KYB tag on them.

- Ca$h

[G4Y]

Its true that larger wheels make it slower, but thats why I don't reccomend gigantic wheels. If you trade a LITTLE bit of acceleration for greatly improved steering response I think its worth it. Driving my neon was a blast, the 45 series tires made it just fun as hell to tear around in!

- Ca$h

[GeneralFreebird]

The only problem with underdrive pulleys are the stories I have seen and heard. Im a PGT owner, I love em. Unorthodox Racing makes an UDP for our cars, and one of the people who bought one for his probe GT ended up having it be the direct cause of his engine seizing. I didnt read into it at all, so why it did that, I am not sure, but its enough to make me say no to UDP's. my $.02

[JackA$$]

Yeah, if you install it wrong.

- Ca$h

PS: UDPs are only worth it on a small car where you'll actually notice 8hp. On a heavy car like my SVX they're pointless.