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Freeflyer · Dec 6, 2002, 12:27 PM

Hi all,

as a recent switcher back onto macs (previously pb100, pb145) I'm slowly replacing my software stack from the pc.

For web page creation, I used text edit and a great piece of software called arachnophilia, which was an html editor. It allowed you to have buttons that would insert specific commands ready formatted such as photo inserts and kept the directory links in order.

I've never been happy with the graphical editors, as they never seem to produce the right results. using arachnophilia was a nice compromise between ease of use, and the nitty gritty of coding every little statement.

Anyone use anything similar on the mac. I tried bbedit lite, but couldn't seem to get it to verify the html, it just worked as a text editor. think I'm missing something.

Cheers,

J.

Vanquish · Dec 6, 2002, 12:32 PM

you can always do manual coding in Dreamweaver or GoLive...

I personally use GoLive (I don't know a lot of HTML-coding)

stevenhaddon · Dec 6, 2002, 12:37 PM

Try Omniweb - the "View Source" command actually brings up quite a good text editor with HTML formatting. Plus you can view the result without changing application.

Steve

Toyin · Dec 6, 2002, 12:53 PM

I'm not a professional designer by any stretch of the imagination. I used to hand-code sites then I discovered Freeway. I also use Macromedia Flash MX

Wevah · Dec 6, 2002, 06:46 PM

BBEdit, actually. I just can't work with WYSIWYG editors well anymore, though I don't have a problem with them...well, except FrontPage. ;]

dadder · Dec 6, 2002, 11:47 PM

I'm a graphic designer (print) turned half web-designer and Dreamweaver has been my road to sanity. I know just under a dozen other designers and pure web site professionals in and around our area that use Dreamweaver. It's undoubtedly on of the best code editors and is a great WYSIWYG. And now, Macromedia has just purchased Cold Fusion, which again shows them as someone who supports the 'back-end' stuff.
Can you believe back in '95 I was using Apple Claris Home Page and then upgraded to Adobe PageMill? Wow! So glad Dreamweaver really brought us to the next level. With it we are able to do the extremely sophisticated to the simplest of sites. And on top of that, if you intend on getting into Flash, etc., it's a family of web products that are seamless in compatibility. But it will cost you. I can't say the others you mentioned are probably anywhere near in $$$ as Dreamweaver, if not FREE. So $$$ probably decides this one.

Subzero Diesel949 · 05:53 AM

For me (mileage may vary):

TextEdit and BBEdit are sufficient text editors.
I do my graphics in Photoshop.

If I have to image map, I use Coffee Cup on the PC.

It's just a matter of putting it all together.

Edit: <Plug> Click on my sig to see the site. </plug>

iRebound · Dec 7, 2002, 02:17 AM

i use a combination of bbedit, golive, and photoshop

waffffffle · Dec 7, 2002, 05:03 AM

I don't do too much web design but I have this one site that I have to work on fairly regularly. I created the site using PageMill 3.0 and ImageReady 3.0 in Classic. However that's been causing problems and making things look rather ugly and I've slowly been changing the site over to use style sheets (which I have discovered is the coolest thing EVER). I'm using TextEdit now to do most of the editing. I was hoping to find some sort of code editor with syntax highlighting and possibly some sort of code verification and tools to help produce tables and imagemaps. I really need to get off of PageMill.

If you want to see my progress take a look at the source of the page at http://www.lastweekmusic.com. So far the news, gallery, lyrics and music pages have been upgraded to use style sheets. Although the site is aready in need of a redesign because I can't really fit much into each page since everything is in a 640 x 480 box. I'm thinking about making the site pop up into a new window that is exactly 640x480, which might make things easier.

clarkgoble · Dec 7, 2002, 06:14 AM

I'd second GoLive. I personally think it is one of the best written OSX applications. There are a few OSX features it doesn't support. But to be honest they aren't typically features I really need in such an editor. I've done a lot of web page work with it. While admittedly they aren't the "fancy" stuff some people do, they were fairly involved. It's templates are fantastic.

The interface is extremely well thought out and it is very easy to do things. It is also remarkably fast in my opinion and has never crashed.

Sharky K. · Dec 7, 2002, 06:29 AM

I use Adobe Golive and after that I use OmniWeb's HTML editor to correct some HTML.

Golive has a good interface for MacOS 9, but the GUI/UI really stinks in MacOS X.

I can't wait for a good cocoa WYSIWYG html editor just for OS X with a perfect interface.

CheesePuff · Dec 7, 2002, 12:16 PM

You always have more control to edit your pages in an HTML editor (or just TextEdit, etc.)

Try CreativePage 3.0, it's an OS X only HTML editor. More info

ambush · Dec 7, 2002, 12:38 PM

I use BBEdit lite and Mozilla's composer (rarely)

I also use Transmit's Text Editing feature a lot.

Macanoid · Dec 7, 2002, 04:36 PM

Originally posted by Sharky K.:
I use Adobe Golive and after that I use OmniWeb's HTML editor to correct some HTML.

Golive has a good interface for MacOS 9, but the GUI/UI really stinks in MacOS X.

I can't wait for a good cocoa WYSIWYG html editor just for OS X with a perfect interface.

Freeway may not be CoCoa, but it's interface is amazing, and truely consistant (in every way) in both OS9 eand OSX.

This week they will release new features, once again way ahead of the pack. Don't you just love this Mac only company!!

Bluebomber21XX · Dec 7, 2002, 06:28 PM

No one here uses Adobe ImageReady?

I draw all my layouts in PhotoShop, then break it all up into HTML using ImageReady.

All the other stuff, I code in by hand. ImageReady produces very clean, standards-compliant code! My friend showed me how to use it in verson 3, and from then on, there's been no turning back.

I highly recommend it for any web developers that haven't tried it yet.

ringo · Dec 7, 2002, 06:36 PM

BBedit, but only because I like to hand-code all my HTML. It is an excellent text editor.

Vanquish · Dec 7, 2002, 06:42 PM

By Bluebomber21XX :
No one here uses Adobe ImageReady?

I draw all my layouts in PhotoShop, then break it all up into HTML using ImageReady.

All the other stuff, I code in by hand. ImageReady produces very clean, standards-compliant code! My friend showed me how to use it in verson 3, and from then on, there's been no turning back.

I highly recommend it for any web developers that haven't tried it yet.

Yeah, I did this once. It works very nice.

BuonRotto · Dec 7, 2002, 11:02 PM

Originally posted by Sharky K.:
I can't wait for a good cocoa WYSIWYG html editor just for OS X with a perfect interface.

Create is quickly getting there. Cocoa app to boot. But this is from someone who "thinks" more in terms of illustration/page layout than HTML/web.

yukon · Dec 7, 2002, 11:31 PM

vi

actually, that's a lie. every page i seet that's "proudly built in vi" is just wall to wall text. maybe because vi is for coding, or because it's for coders...

I use simpletext for most of it, i used to do dreamweaver for visualizing frames and tables (it's been a while), and bbedit for quick editing of massive pages. iCab's error check makes sure my pages are standards compliant, yet not quite browser compliant (i hate IE and moz extensions)

ambush · Dec 8, 2002, 12:38 AM

Originally posted by Macanoid:

Freeway may not be CoCoa, but it's interface is amazing, and truely consistant (in every way) in both OS9 eand OSX.

This week they will release new features, once again way ahead of the pack. Don't you just love this Mac only company!!

I heard a lot of good things about Freeway.
I'm tempted to buy it

Yukon - wtf does you sig text mean?

nonhuman · Dec 8, 2002, 12:50 AM

Originally posted by stevenhaddon:
Try Omniweb - the "View Source" command actually brings up quite a good text editor with HTML formatting. Plus you can view the result without changing application.

Steve

OmniWeb is actually what I use for coding my pages. It's the only html editor I've found so far that handles Unicode text in a worthwhile manner, which is important since I maintain my page in both English and Russian with some Japanese thrown in as well. Before I started doing multi-lingual pages I used Emacs.

MojoRising022 · Dec 8, 2002, 01:04 AM

BBEdit for actually coding the pages...BBEdit has syntax coloring for virtually ever language you might consider using to code a web page. Upu can even get plug-ins for Actionsctipt and SQL.

Dreamweaver for site management

Fireworks for web-specific artwork, image maps, animated gifs (on the rare occasion I use them), and dhtml drop down menus.

Photoshop for photo-art

Transmit fot FTP-ing

Sharky K. · Dec 8, 2002, 05:30 AM

I tried FreeWay I don't like it at all. I want to have control over the HTML. A cocoa app that uses the drag and drop features from Golive and can do as many as Claris Homepage. Including some very simple javascripts. That would be perfect. An extra very easy site management with FTP synchronization and I am going to pay

BuonRotto · Dec 8, 2002, 11:32 AM

Might want to check out my link above. Drag-n-drop galore, custom html, javascript, etc.

CheesePuff · Dec 8, 2002, 12:48 PM

I have FreeWay 2.5 and 3.0 and don't like it all too much. It's just like using InDesign or some other page layout app.

MacGorilla · Dec 8, 2002, 01:01 PM

I use Mozilla composer for the HTML, Graphic Converter and the The Gimp for gifs and other images. My web pages don't use alot of fancy stuff so these work just fine for me (and they pass The World Wide Web Consortium's Validation Tests, which is cool).

Macanoid · Dec 8, 2002, 01:12 PM

Originally posted by Sharky K.:
I tried FreeWay I don't like it at all. I want to have control over the HTML.

Freeway allow you to have control over the should you wish too. Just check the option 'Source Cide Snooper', and Snoop into the code that Freeway and other actions generate and, if you want to, change it!

Sharky, I have noticed before that you're not too big a fan of Freeway. That's ok, just use the tool you're happy with. The only thing that does bother me though is that most of your somewhat negative comment are vary often not true. Please have another look at the program, you'll find that the code it generates, in particular the javascript code is way cleaner and more compliant than GoLive's.

I have FreeWay 2.5 and 3.0 and don't like it all too much. It's just like using InDesign
or some other page layout app. [/QUOTE]

But that's the whole point of the program. It allows you to focus on design, and not on the code. As a print designer I don't want to focus on postscript either when I print a page.

Simon X · Dec 8, 2002, 01:51 PM

Originally posted by Macanoid:

Freeway allow you to have control over the should you wish too. Just check the option 'Source Cide Snooper', and Snoop into the code that Freeway and other actions generate and, if you want to, change it!

Sharky, I have noticed before that you're not too big a fan of Freeway. That's ok, just use the tool you're happy with. The only thing that does bother me though is that most of your somewhat negative comment are vary often not true. Please have another look at the program, you'll find that the code it generates, in particular the javascript code is way cleaner and more compliant than GoLive's.

I have FreeWay 2.5 and 3.0 and don't like it all too much. It's just like using InDesign
or some other page layout app.

But that's the whole point of the program. It allows you to focus on design, and not on the code. As a print designer I don't want to focus on postscript either when I print a page. [/QUOTE]

Indeed. Why code when you can just design.

CheesePuff · Dec 8, 2002, 02:09 PM

Well the only reason I didn't like version 2.5 is because the code it made sucked. I guess they cleaned up the code in later versions.

Macanoid · Dec 8, 2002, 02:40 PM

Originally posted by CheesePuff:
Well the only reason I didn't like version 2.5 is because the code it made sucked. I guess they cleaned up the code in later versions.

According to various magazines such as Computer Arts, Freeway's code is extremely clean. The program is currently at version 3.5.5+, and is in one word: Amazing!

I always check my site's here: http://www.echoecho.com/, and never got any complaints about the code.

Drizzt · Dec 8, 2002, 03:15 PM

MySQL for database, PHP for rendering, BBEdit for creating

When "my work is done", I use OmniWeb to check the parsed-php to see if the HTML returned is OK, and iCab (but there's some things with iCab that are clunky with the error reporting engine..).

undotwa · Dec 9, 2002, 04:59 AM

Anyone know of a decent FREE Image Map maker?

MickS · Dec 9, 2002, 05:35 AM

I use BBEdit. However I'm dealing with long term projects and incremental changes.

I did use Dreamweaver once (version 3.0) but although it had some nice features I found that it produced some nasty code and that combined with the crashes made me switch back to a text editor.

Prior to Dreamweaver I'd used vi. Wonderful editor

Millennium · Dec 10, 2002, 10:41 AM

The closest thing I've seen to Arachnophilia on OSX was Pepper. Great text editor. Unfortunately, the author is no longer developing it, and doesn't even have it up for download anymore (version 4.x was not compatible with Jaguar either, though the 3.x versions work fine).

Other than that, there was an app on OS9 called World Wide Web Weaver (nee WebWeaver) which had a similar "tag palette" feature. But I don't think it ever got ported for some reason.

Theoretically BBEdit could be made to do the things you want; I don't have experience with the full version but BBEdit Lite can do a few things. In particular, you said you wanted BBEdit Lite to be able to verify the HTML. For that, try the awesome BBTidy plug-in, which wraps Tidy (possibly the single best HTML-verification tool out there) in a nice interface and lets BBEdit work with it.

BBTidy is available at http://www.geocities.com/terry_teague/tidy.html. There is also a standalone version for those of us who use other tools. It's creeware (I don't think it's Open-Source, but I could be wrong).

Mrjinglesusa · Dec 10, 2002, 01:24 PM

I used Dreamweaver MX to design a webpage for my fiance and I. I then got free cgi's from the web to put up a message boards and form. This is my first webpage and I have to say, Dreamweaver was VERY intuitive.

http://www.jimandkelly.net

-Q- · Dec 10, 2002, 09:22 PM

Very happy with Dreamweaver MX and Fireworks for my web editing and site management.

I use Transmit for my FTPing as well....

Chun Hsu · Dec 11, 2002, 01:06 AM

Just for variety, I use Mozilla or Netscape composer and a Unix utility called sitecopy to automate the FTP. It only sends the changed files, so it's kind of convenient. It's not available on Fink yet, but I got it compiled eventually.

mrtew · Dec 11, 2002, 09:38 PM

I thought I was the only one! I've always used Netscape Composer for my sites! Kinda lame I'm sure, but I don't know HTML and am not really interested it learning it. I've even built one page in NetscapeX 6.0 but that was pretty buggy. Maybe 7.1 is a lot better.

My pages...
New PeskiPix page -- http://mywebpages.comcast.net/mrtew/PeskiPix.html
New TruckPix page - http://homepage.mac.com/mrtew/VXpix.html

Gul Banana · Dec 11, 2002, 10:59 PM

BBEdit works very well for me; the tag editor and syntax highlighting are very useful, and I prefer to do most stuff by hand.

snerdini · Dec 11, 2002, 11:01 PM

Despite its bugs, Dreamweaver MX is the best overall website creation tool right now.

That's why I use GoLive.

clarkgoble · Dec 11, 2002, 11:11 PM

Why do people like Dreamweaver? I downloaded the demos of both it and GoLive and decided I liked GoLive much better. When I got the full version for that nice Apple subsidized price I was extremely happy. I'd have to say it is my favorite OSX application. About the only thing I want is Services support. But you can fake that with Macros like QuickKeys.

I especially like the template method that GoLive uses to auto-update your entire site. Much nicer than doing semi-fake templates with Perl or Python scripts (IMO) or similar methods.

Adam Betts · Dec 12, 2002, 02:15 AM

Originally posted by clarkgoble:
Why do people like Dreamweaver?

Best Table Management. GoLive is extremely bad when it come to table, IMO.

Most websites that use complex table use DreamWeaver. Apple used GoLive because their website is pretty much simple and can be made with text-editor easily.

TC · Dec 12, 2002, 03:45 AM

Table management has improved in GoLive 6.

People seem to be polarized between Dreamweaver and GoLive, if you like one you can't like the other.

I started with GoLive and have tried over and over to go to Dreamweaver but it is just impossible to move across. That isn't a criticism of DreamWeaver it's just that the two programs have completely different workflows.

I tried the initial release of Dreamweaver for OS X but it was a terrible carbon port. Hopefully the latest update fixed the problems.

Anyway my big tip is whatever you are using get into CSS as soon as you can. Using external style sheets makes developing large sites much easier.

http://www.mediterraneancookbook.com/

GoLive, Photoshop + books done in Lightwave