[jyvin563]

I just posted this in the Power Mac forum but I would really like to know other people's opinion.

Does anyone understand the potential implications of the release of these chips in Apple computers? Not 8 months ago the PowerPC development looked stagnant to just plain dead. Now IBM has thrust the PowerPC right back in to the forefront. Even more sweet, Intel announced they weren't going to develop a 64-bit processor till 2005 or 2060. Not only could this chip bring Apple the processor might they so desperately need, but it could make them legitimate in the business world again. Businesses that buy Apple now buy for the OS; then they would buy for the processor and OS. If Apple were to keep the costs of these machines reasonable, businesses would eat them up. One of Apple's best qualities is the ability to miniaturize (iPod, Cube, PowerBook, iBook, and Xserve). Imagine a 1U server (Xserve) running dual 970's at 2.5 GHz. Education and businesses would buy them by the dozens. Again, Apple would run a respectable OS and respectable hardware; a deadly combination.

What about the consumer market? I read a dozen Apple forums all the time. I see so many people say they are waiting. Waiting for the next generation or the next big thing. One of Apple's highest margin products is the Power Mac. As we all know the quantity sold of these machines has been decline for several quarters. Bad economy, 9/11, or looming war may be the reason for the decline. These reasons could be right, but it seems to me that it is because the Power Macs now just suck. Remember, I am as big of a Mac fan as anyone on these boards, don�t troll. We all know the Power Macs are seriously behind the times. This new PowerPC could put them on the bleeding edge. I am not talking about 2 year behind or 6 months behind, I mean on the edge; neck and neck with Intel. If Apple implements this technology in the Power Macs, the sales will no doubt skyrocket. They wouldn't meet the demand for 6 months. They wouldn't need to blame the economy anymore. Anderson would say, "I am happy to report we are in the best financial situation in a decade."

We could see a general change in the way Apple updates its computers. Now we see upgrades of Macs every 6 months, but that very well could change. I would venture to bet the reason for this is not because they want to mature the product cycle. I would bet a large sum of money it is because they can't get the processors they need, when they need them. Motorola is so unreliable it has disabled Apple's product cycles. With the release of the new processor this could become less of an issue. They are building this processor in the new fab. plant right? That IBM plant is state of the art and will be able to produce far more processors in a faster time than Motorola could dream of. Motorola has cut their processor division but IBM is forging ahead. I believe that says it all. IBM seems very confident and serious about this processor. They want to develop it and get this thing out ASAP. If Apple adopts the 970 they could only stand to benefit from this. Apple may be able to just update computers like it is no thing.

So the question is Apple really going to do it? The shoe seems to fit so perfectly (PowerPC, backwards compatible 64-bit processor, and Altivec). Seriously, why would IBM build a processor with Altivec if Apple weren�t involved? Apple pushes developer so hard to use that technology. It seems to fit just like O.J.'s black glove... oh wait a second . Basically, this whole rant is just a reminder of how huge this is for Apple. They need to adopt this technology and adopt it fast. Not because they need it to survive (Apple has enough freaky fans to be in business for 50 years!) but they need it to grow. To get back to 10% market share they need a respectable OS (they have) and respectable hardware (they could have). Please tell me your thoughts. I would like to hear if you think this is as big of a deal as I think it is.

jyvin

[wdlove]

Could it be that our dreams are close to reality. That Apple has something to really give Bill Gates nightmares. Your are preaching to the choir, now to reach the masses. The introduction by Steve to have eveyone with jaw drop!
I'm excitied!

[Glasspusher]

My opinion? I don't see non mac people going nuts and buying them in droves, but it will make a compelling option. Heck, if IBM can sell linux boxes, I think Apple has as much chance or more to sell OS X 970 boxes and servers. Apple has to show people they're in it for the long haul and can produce quality, competitive software and hardware for a while before the Wintel sheep start considering it. Certainly the Itanic and M$'s sluggishness to make an version of windoze that will run on the Itanic will help people. That and the fact that crappy wintel boxes will need to be replaced every few years will give a chance for Apple to get their foot in the door.

Here's hoping Apple can give it to them with both barrels.

Dave

[Oneota]

I just know I've got a 400 MHz Gigabit G4 that's practically crying out "Replace me! Replace me!" and I'm guessing I'm not the only one. The instant a truly compelling option comes along, my 400 MHz friend is becoming a web server.

[palmberg]

The sweetest three letters in this press release are, in this order:

I B M


Motorola can blow me where the pampers is! God, I'm sick of that company by now.

Edit: Can you imagine a Beowulf cluster.....

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Everyone's so optimistic.

Mac users are always like this. No one's cautiously hoping we get some better processors...people are going ape about dual 2.5 GHz 970s!

Calm. There's a downside. Somewhere. THere always is.

greg

[Langdon]

This all sounds great but what about people who are buying Macs now and in the next year? Will this huge increase in power mean that future releases of X or OS 11 will be more hardware demanding, thus rendering all current hardware almost unusable on that software?
When you drop two thousand on a system you want it to be able to run OS updates at least 18 months into the future with reasonable performance. Sure waiting for the G5 would be practical but not always possible.

[sek929]

<Looks at Quicksilver>

I wonder how much I can get for a trade in?

[thunderous_funker]

Originally posted by ShortcutToMoncton:
Everyone's so optimistic.

Mac users are always like this. No one's cautiously hoping we get some better processors...people are going ape about dual 2.5 GHz 970s!

Calm. There's a downside. Somewhere. THere always is.

greg

My fear is that the price point will be the downside. There's no way the 970 will make Mac's cheaper (which is a bummer already for many of us) but will actually make them a bit more expensive. How much of bit? That could be a very big bummer.

As always, it will be bang/buck ratio that will make the difference between Apple treading water or actually growing market share.

At first, I'm almost positive that 970 chips will only be available in the top of line $$$ machines. How quickly they make it to the rest of the product line-up will be interesting.

[tie]

Originally posted by ShortcutToMoncton:
Calm. There's a downside. Somewhere. THere always is.

Exactly. There always is. The optimists are always wrong when it comes to Mac processor speed. But I'm still hoping. :)

[spacefreak]

This won't see a powermac for at least 18-months. It may hit the server line in 6-8 months, but not the powermac line until some months after that.

Get excited about the speed when release seems more certain or imminent. Right now, it's practically science fiction. It may not even land on Apple's doorstep.

[MindFad]

Originally posted by spacefreak:
This won't see a powermac for at least 18-months. It may hit the server line in 6-8 months, but not the powermac line until some months after that.

Get excited about the speed when release seems more certain or imminent. Right now, it's practically science fiction. It may not even land on Apple's doorstep.

Like you or anyone else really knows when these chips will show up? I've seen reasons why people think they just may show up this year, but what makes you say 18 months for the desktop line? And 6-8 months fof the server line? I think Apple sees the Power Macs as a much more important line than their Xserve.

[Mark Tungston]

are the chips shipping in any computers yet?

when you see ibm start selling them in some sort of PC, then you can start guessing as to when apple will adapt it. if they do.

[MindFad]

Well, IBM's Blade Servers are supposed to have the 970s in them by mid-year this year (around MacWorld time), so it might be safe to speculate a little.

[snotnose]

will the 970 be a g5 though?

[Superchicken]

I think ultimately if you're buying an iBook might be getting screwed... otherwise I don't think apple within the next two years will start bloating the OS enough to make anyone on a power book care. Software developers who knows. But the power books and power macs right now are still fast... they could be faster with a 970, but apple's not gona make OS X suddenly have all kindsa crazy 3D effects and piss off lotsa people with G4+ Macs. Least I should hope not. Technically right now my iMac G3 can run most software not horridly, you can't expect a machine to get faster over time, but it's not like it's gona suddenly get dramatically slower with OS X.4 or something.
Least I should hope not... if that happens I'll probably end up buying an iMac to go with the power book I'll be buying soon.
In all honesty though I really thinkt he 970 will be addopted quickly. Who knows if the G4 will even ever SEE the iBook, I think it's more likely that a low end 970 with very low power consumption will be in it, giving the iBook great speed and very low power consumption.
As for the price... why are people saying these things'll cost more? Has IBM stated what they'll cost? Most likely they'll probably be pretty comparable to other processors being sold.

[ThinkInsane]

Originally posted by jyvin563:


Even more sweet, Intel announced they weren't going to develop a 64-bit processor till 2005 or 2060.
jyvin

Are you sure about those dates? I mean, that's a pretty huge span of years. In a world where hardware gets outdated in a year, a 55 year span would seem to signal the death bells for Intel.

Oh, and just for the record, I am at work and bored, and I know it was a type-o. I just thought it was funny when I read it.

[Mark Tungston]

Originally posted by MindFad:
Well, IBM's Blade Servers are supposed to have the 970s in them by mid-year this year (around MacWorld time), so it might be safe to speculate a little.

at that point, maybe true specs can be released as well as a starting pricepoint

now, all we can do is write to apple and say : GET ME A POWERMAC WITH A 970 NOW!

[boots]

Originally posted by Mark Tungston:
at that point, maybe true specs can be released as well as a starting pricepoint

now, all we can do is write to apple and say : GET ME A POWERMAC WITH A 970 NOW!

But then it isn't speculation. And were whould the fun in that be?

[Mastrap]

Nevermind. Sorry.

[Mark Tungston]

Originally posted by boots:
But then it isn't speculation. And were whould the fun in that be?

the fun is in that you might get one in a powermac, instead of posting rumors here, yell at apple

all the clues seem to point to Powermac+970 = Happy Consumers, let them know what you are expecting

Go here: http://www.apple.com/contact/feedback.html or [email protected]

[headbox]

Originally posted by benb:
For those who do not know, think 5-6 times the performance of a 1.25 G4.

100% wishful thinking and uneducated speculation

[dillerX]

Originally posted by MindFad:
A j�zz smiley would be more appropriate. God damn, I can't wait.

More like it.

[wdlove]

Originally posted by Mark Tungston:
the fun is in that you might get one in a powermac, instead of posting rumors here, yell at apple

all the clues seem to point to Powermac+970 = Happy Consumers, let them know what you are expecting

Go here: http://www.apple.com/contact/feedback.html or [email protected]

Feedback to Apple can definitely make a difference. Although I think Steve Jobs is well aware of what the rumors are. At MWNY Keynote Steve Jobs "I visit many rumor sites."

[benb]

Originally posted by headbox:
100% wishful thinking and uneducated speculation

IBM PPC 970:

SPECint2000
937 @ 1.8 GHz
SPECfp2000
1051 @ 1.8 GHz
Dhrystone MIPS
5220 @ 1.8 GHz

SPECint2000
1301 @ 2.5 GHz
SPECfp2000
1459 @ 2.5 GHz
Dhrystone MIPS
7250 @ 2.5 GHz

.....

Here's what the current MOT G4 does:

SPECint2000
418 @ 1.4 GHz
SPECfp2000
248 @ 1.4 GHz

Above from AppleInsider forums.


Add to this Altivec, which will get a huge speed boost from a 1.25 FSB (assuming 1.25 because IBM previously stated that the FSB will be fixed at 1/2 the clock speed). I'd say yes, on paper at least it will be 5-6 times as fast as a 1.25. Remember, the G4 numbers there are the 1.42's.

[olePigeon]

If I remember correctly, those aren't even real benchmarks but rather speculation on IBM's part on what the chip may achieve. The benchmarks on the 2.5 are assuming the increase in performance is proportional.

We won't know until they stick the thing in a computer.

Originally posted by benb:
IBM PPC 970:

SPECint2000
937 @ 1.8 GHz
SPECfp2000
1051 @ 1.8 GHz
Dhrystone MIPS
5220 @ 1.8 GHz

SPECint2000
1301 @ 2.5 GHz
SPECfp2000
1459 @ 2.5 GHz
Dhrystone MIPS
7250 @ 2.5 GHz

.....

Here's what the current MOT G4 does:

SPECint2000
418 @ 1.4 GHz
SPECfp2000
248 @ 1.4 GHz

Above from AppleInsider forums.


Add to this Altivec, which will get a huge speed boost from a 1.25 FSB (assuming 1.25 because IBM previously stated that the FSB will be fixed at 1/2 the clock speed). I'd say yes, on paper at least it will be 5-6 times as fast as a 1.25. Remember, the G4 numbers there are the 1.42's.

[Mark Tungston]

Originally posted by wdlove:
Feedback to Apple can definitely make a difference. Although I think Steve Jobs is well aware of what the rumors are. At MWNY Keynote Steve Jobs "I visit many rumor sites."

i'm along the lines that steve may think..."they want the 970 but wait till the see what my motorol g5 can do..." or whatever

if his "people" recieve 50-100 emails a day, everyday....then he may start to think ..."Scrap the G4 bull-shyt, we can make tremendous money from the 970 because the demand is there now"

[drmcnutt]

Clockspeed/Chip threads with responses like this and the Megahertz Myth? Can both really be true? HMMMM.

DRM

[Superchicken]

motorola G5? Hmm.. didn't know they were putting G as the brand name for their next batch of cell phones