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pat++ · Jun 9, 2002, 06:54 PM

I am just wondering if darwin/OS X will get accelerated X server soon. Using XFree is really painful in fullscreen mode.

Is XFree hardware accelerated under linux, or is it the same implementation as the darwin/OS X one ?

[APi]TheMan · Jun 9, 2002, 08:35 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by pat++:
I am just wondering if darwin/OS X will get accelerated X server soon. Using XFree is really painful in fullscreen mode.

Is XFree hardware accelerated under linux, or is it the same implementation as the darwin/OS X one ?<hr /></blockquote>Run rootless, then there is some hardware acceleration...

awaspaas · Jun 9, 2002, 09:58 PM

I see no difference. You're talking about XDarwin, right? What is it gonna take to get real OpenGL support for this? I run the same programs on an SGI machine and they're glassy smooth. XDarwin they're crappy and slow and jumpy.

XTools even claims OpenGL support but it doesnt seem any faster than XDarwin.

[APi]TheMan · Jun 9, 2002, 11:25 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by awaspaas:
I see no difference. You're talking about XDarwin, right? What is it gonna take to get real OpenGL support for this? I run the same programs on an SGI machine and they're glassy smooth. XDarwin they're crappy and slow and jumpy.

XTools even claims OpenGL support but it doesnt seem any faster than XDarwin.<hr /></blockquote>Um, last time I checked, scrolling in a Mozilla document in XDarwin was updated more frequently and less jumpy in rootless mode compared to full-screen mode.

awaspaas · Jun 10, 2002, 01:01 AM

That may be, but I was thinking more OpenGL 3d object manipulation type performance, and I just tried it again, and see no difference between rootless and fullscreen mode. Have the Xfree86 developers said anything about future OpenGL support? I haven't been able to find anything.

s_l_o_w__k_i_l_l_s · Jun 10, 2002, 02:07 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by pat++:
Is XFree hardware accelerated under linux, or is it the same implementation as the darwin/OS X one ?<hr /></blockquote>Yes, on Linux for most modern graphics cards you can get an accelerated X driver, then you just alias X to it. Linux systems can run Doom and other 3d games at high framerates, run high-end animation, etc. Check linuxhardware.org for details (see recent article on the Radeon 8500, for example).

I would think you could re-compile the accelerated drivers to make them work for X on the Mac, but have never tried (I'm more of a text kind of guy). My G4 has a Radeon 7500, so if you find a better driver than what Fink supplies, let me know!

P · Jun 10, 2002, 11:09 AM

Ho hum, I think we've been over this before, but I guess we can do it again:

If you kill Quartz (by logging on with >console) and start XDarwin, you will get accelerated graphics. They can not be used when Quartz is running, which is why fullscreen mode is completely unaccelerated. The default window manager twm makes it seem even slower - swtching to something like windowmaker will partly fix this.

There is some acceleration in rootless mode, if not much. Current focus is to improve this for the next version, XFree86 4.3, along with a new built-in window manager.

Open GL in X11 is called GLX, and XFree86 4.2 supports full GLX software rendering. Hardware acceleration is also in the cards, but this depends on the new rootless mode being implemented first. It could happen in time for XFree86 4.3, or maybe not.

XTools supports only hardware acceleration (2D and 3D) in rootless mode.

pat++ · Jun 10, 2002, 05:10 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by P:
Ho hum, I think we've been over this before, but I guess we can do it again:

If you kill Quartz (by logging on with >console) and start XDarwin, you will get accelerated graphics. They can not be used when Quartz is running, which is why fullscreen mode is completely unaccelerated. The default window manager twm makes it seem even slower - swtching to something like windowmaker will partly fix this.<hr /></blockquote>I did try this and runing from the console is as slow as fullscreen quartz mode (I am using windowmaker).

Anyway... here is the response from Torrey Lyons who is working on XFree for darwin :

Hi Torrey,

I noticed that fullscreen mode on darwin/OS X is not
hardware accelerated and is very slow on my iBook. I just
wanted to know if you have plans to support hardware
acceleration soon... When can we expect to have this
implemented ? Thanks.

We have plans. :-) We are working on speeding up rootless mode first, but there should be substantial improvement in full screen mode for the next full release (XFree86 4.3). I would guess that it will be a couple months before we have a test release with a faster full screen mode.

--Torrey

Hopefully we'll get acceleration for 4.3

Arkham_c · Jun 11, 2002, 09:08 AM

I logged in on the console and ran X (tried twm and gnome-session with sawfish) and both seemed completely without acceleration. I think for now I will stick to rootless within Aqua.

P · Jun 11, 2002, 01:02 PM

All chipsets supported by XFree86 4.2 are listed here:

<a href="http://www.xfree86.org/4.2.0/Status.html" target="_blank">http://www.xfree86.org/4.2.0/Status.html</a>

I seem to remember that there was a problem with acceleration not working on some iBooks/PowerBooks, because those chips weren't supported.

Greg Parker · Jun 11, 2002, 01:58 PM

First, please distinguish between "2D accleration" and "OpenGL acceleration". The two mechanisms are unrelated.

For 2D graphics, XDarwin is currently unaccelerated. We are currently working to use CoreGraphics to replace some of the X server's drawing operations. This will be faster, and benefit from all of CoreGraphics' current and future optimizations for AltiVec and graphics cards.

Note that 2D graphics in full-screen mode are generally slower than the same operations in rootless mode.

For 3D graphics (OpenGL/GLX), XDarwin currently uses the Mesa software renderer. We are currently working to use Apple's OpenGL.framework instead. This will provide hardware acceleration for all cards that have GL support in Mac OS X.

Note that the "supported video card / chipset" list for XFree86 is absolutely irrelevant for XDarwin. We use Apple's higher-level APIs and never talk to hardware directly, so we don't need different code for each card.

We expect to release a test version of the OpenGL support soon. Check <a href="http://sourceforge.net/projects/xonx/" target="_blank">http://sourceforge.net/projects/xonx/</a> or join the mailing lists there for updates.