[requinmalin]

Hi there. My first post here ;o)
I'm on the market for a laptop and I am looking at either the ibook or the powerbook (12'). My girlfriend has an 800mhz ibook with 384mb of ram, but she keeps complaining that it's slow (I must say she works with G4 desktops at work...so that might explain it).
But after playing around with the ibook I also think it is a tad slow (especially when using a very simple (but necessary for my studies) program under virtual pc (win98)). Even on native mac apps it seems a tad on the slow side. So my question is this:
People seem to be saying that higher ram works wonders, so would boosting it from 384 to 640 really make that much of a difference?
Also, how fast is the 900 compared to the 800mhz? Is it significant in any way?

Thanks!

[radarbob]

From posts I've read over time, and putting 2 & 2 together, I'd say adding RAM always improves performance. Folks have seen an improvement as they incrementally increase RAM. Folks have particularly noticed a difference as they open more applications. On my RevA iBook the difference between 288MB and 544MB is very striking when I open, oh, more that about 2 major apps (along w/ the usual utils.)

My brother has an 800MHz iBook w/ maxed-out memory; and he's is impressed w/ it's performance.

[jokell82]

I can tell you this afternoon. I've been running 384 megs of RAM in my iBooks for years (first on my 500 DVD and now on my 700 Combo). Today the Fed Ex guy is bringing me a nice little package from NewEgg with a 512mb stick inside, so I'll definitely be posting later to tell of the differences.

[jtc]

Originally posted by jokell82:
I can tell you this afternoon. I've been running 384 megs of RAM in my iBooks for years (first on my 500 DVD and now on my 700 Combo). Today the Fed Ex guy is bringing me a nice little package from NewEgg with a 512mb stick inside, so I'll definitely be posting later to tell of the differences.

I'd be interested in hearing if you notice a difference, too. I've been using an iBook with 384 for about two years and have been considering upgrading to 640.

[jokell82]

I've been told the difference is huge, which is why I can't wait to get off work today.

[escher]

Salut requinmalin. A smart shark like you would max out the RAM with a 512MB stick instead of a cheaper 256M.

I went from 320 to 576 in my iBook/500/CD a few weeks ago (my numbers are a bit lower because I only have 64MB soldered to the mobo). The additional 256MB have made a huge difference and were definitely worth the price.

Before, memory used to page out to HDD as soon as I ran more than 3 or 4 apps. Now, I never get pageouts, unless I run something like 10 apps with dozens of windows open. I used to have to quit unused apps to avoid paging. Now I just leave all my apps up and running: Camino, Eudora, Word, BBEdit, Transmit, GraphicConverter, QuickTime, Acrobat Reader, System Preferences, and sometimes iTunes and iChat.

I really should have maxed out the RAM from the get-go. However, I couldn't afford it at the time. Nowadays, you can max out you iBook's RAM for less than US$100. It should be a no-brainer.

If you can afford it, I also think the 12-inch PowerBook would be a better buy than the 900Mhz iBook. But that might just be because I am getting frustrated with my slower iBook/500. If you can wait, you might also be able to get a 1Ghz version of both the iBook and the 12-inch PowerBook soon.

Escher

[requinmalin]

Thanks everyone for your answers (looking forward to jokell82's report on the upgrade)!
I could probably buy the powerbook, but if the performance of the ibook is good enough, I would save a few $$$ (especially if I can get a used one).
The one thing I really like about the ibook is that's it's small, light and looks great. At the same price point, laptop pcs are all ugly, heavy boxes. The really nice and thin ones are all being sold for something like 3000$can (2000$us).

By the way, Apple claims the battery lasts for five hours and from what I can read in reality it's more around 2-4hours (depending on use). Cheap pc laptop claim 1-2 hours...so does this mean that in reality they last less than an hour? My experience with a Toshiba from the office last year seemed to confirm that (so much for being able to work during a 14 hours flight (even though it was business class there was nowhere to plug it in...grrr.) Anyway, point is, long battery life is also very important and apple seems to have an edge here (if you compare similarly priced products).

[RMXO]

Originally posted by requinmalin:
By the way, Apple claims the battery lasts for five hours and from what I can read in reality it's more around 2-4hours (depending on use). Cheap pc laptop claim 1-2 hours...so does this mean that in reality they last less than an hour?

This is takened from Apple's Site:

Battery

iBook with 12.1-inch display: 46-watt-hour lithium-ion battery provides up to 5 hours of battery life on a single charge (1)

iBook with 14.1-inch display: 55-watt-hour lithium-ion battery provides up to 6 hours of battery life on a single charge (1)

FYI. they never said 5hrs. if you read carefully it says UP TO 5 hrs. just wanted to clarify for ppl that dont know.

back to the topic:

i noticed a big difference on my wife's ibook esp when multitasking & when i have lots of apps open. this is 384mb vs 640mb ram.

[jokell82]

I should know about the memory in about two hours (damn work can't go by fast enough), but as for the battery, I've gotten very close to the 5 hour mark before.

I do a lot of live audio recording with my iBook, which involves a lot of writing to the disc. With the screen off and the software recording (including sending power to a USB device), I've gotten about 4.5 hours. Other than this situation I'm usually plugged in...

[Davidarm]

640M makes a huge difference over 384M just because OS X takes so much memory before you even open any applications. With 384 it only takes a couple apps to get into pageouts. Even with 640 I can get pageouts if I do anything in VirtualPC, but thankfully I don't have to use it much any more. If I did, I would have bitten the bullet and gotten the 12" Powerbook just so I could have 1G of RAM. My Pismo was a dream with 1G and now my wife gets to enjoy it and the 14" screen, while I get to enjoy 4.9 lbs and a combo drive. Life is all about compromises, no?

[x user]

I know the feeling, I have a 800 iBook right now, but the second the 12" PB gets a G5, if it ever does (crossing fingers) I'm getting one.

I suppose if it doesn't within a year or so I'll buy a Dual 3ghz with 8gb ram...

/Pipe dream

[jokell82]

Well, Newegg.com lied about their memory, and they shipped me one that was too large for the slot. Now they want me to pay a $15 restocking fee... Well F that, I'll cancel the charge from my credit card, that's rediculous...

I'm gonna order one from 18004memory monday morning, so I'll know next week...

[AssassyN]

Originally posted by jokell82:
Well, Newegg.com lied about their memory, and they shipped me one that was too large for the slot. Now they want me to pay a $15 restocking fee... Well F that, I'll cancel the charge from my credit card, that's rediculous...

I'm gonna order one from 18004memory monday morning, so I'll know next week...

Ouch...sorry to hear that. 18004memory is where I got my 12" PB RAM, works like a charm.

[echosphere]

Regarding the difference between the 800mhz and 900mhz chips, I've heard that the 900 is a new design and therefore a nice improvement.

Can't say for sure as I don't own either, but I'm sure that others here may know something about this.

One thing I do know is that the 900mhz is MUCH than my 600mhz. sigh.

[Nile]

One completely enormous thing to consider is not amount of RAM will make Virtual PC run fast at all. VPC is horrible and should only be used in a dire situation with no other choice. Is slow on the mightiest G4 and will not be fast.

[The Placid Casual]

No ifs or buts, the more RAM the better. You will notice a big difference putting more in any machine.

However if you are hoping for miracles on VPC, you're not going to get them!

It is a truly hateful application, that ensures your 'windows' system runs as slow as molasses. Even Dual Processor Powermacs cannot run VPC fast... (it has no GPU acceleration etc).

I tried to run it with Windows 2000 on a Dual 867 last week and although it was somewhat usable, if I had to do anything important or mission critical it would have been hopeless...

RAM will help on the OS X stuff, but you will need to look elsewhere for a VPC solution... Is there no OS X native app that will do the same job?

[The Placid Casual]

Originally posted by jokell82:
Well, Newegg.com lied about their memory, and they shipped me one that was too large for the slot. Now they want me to pay a $15 restocking fee... Well F that, I'll cancel the charge from my credit card, that's rediculous...

I'm gonna order one from 18004memory monday morning, so I'll know next week...

I always use Crucial ( www.crucial.com ) for RAM, and have done so for years and years.

They have never shipped me a bad stick, they have always been helpful, and always sorted any problems without question.

120% recommended.

[The Placid Casual]

Originally posted by requinmalin:
By the way, Apple claims the battery lasts for five hours and from what I can read in reality it's more around 2-4hours (depending on use). Cheap pc laptop claim 1-2 hours...so does this mean that in reality they last less than an hour? My experience with a Toshiba from the office last year seemed to confirm that (so much for being able to work during a 14 hours flight (even though it was business class there was nowhere to plug it in...grrr.) Anyway, point is, long battery life is also very important and apple seems to have an edge here (if you compare similarly priced products).

With the screen dimmed down, processor speed reduction on and sensible usage, the battery claims are pretty accurate. I can easily get 5 hours on my iBook 466SE!

15" Powerbooks also come up to proof. However 12" and 17" Powerbooks are somewhat lacking... I could 'only' get a maximum of 3.5 hours out of my 12" powerbook :/

On the PC side, older laptops are in the sub hour category, but a soon a you get to the 'Centrino' chipset based machines, Apple gets its ass kicked. Badly. They have genuine 9 hour battery life! (although you may need an extras battery in on of the bays of the machine).

They use a form of processor speed reduction that gives you just enough power for the job you are doing... people have seen 2.5 P4M processor go down to 300mhz to save power!

Overall though Apples times, especially for iBooks, are near enough accurate...

[Grrr]

Originally posted by Davidarm:
640M makes a huge difference over 384M just because OS X takes so much memory before you even open any applications. With 384 it only takes a couple apps to get into pageouts. Even with 640 I can get pageouts if I do anything in VirtualPC, but thankfully I don't have to use it much any more. If I did, I would have bitten the bullet and gotten the 12" Powerbook just so I could have 1G of RAM. My Pismo was a dream with 1G and now my wife gets to enjoy it and the 14" screen, while I get to enjoy 4.9 lbs and a combo drive. Life is all about compromises, no?

12" G4 PB takes a max of 640mb ram. Not 1gig.. According to Apple..

[escher]

Originally posted by Grrr:
12" G4 PB takes a max of 640mb ram. Not 1gig.. According to Apple..

Unless you are willing to pay the hefty premium for a 1GB memory chip. From what I read here, a 1GB chip that will fit the 12-inch PowerBook's single RAM slot costs about US$800. It's possible, but cost is likely to be prohibitive.

Escher

[The Placid Casual]

Originally posted by Grrr:
12" G4 PB takes a max of 640mb ram. Not 1gig.. According to Apple..

Apple recently updated the specs/info pages of the 12"... 1Ghz+ is now officially an option.

The 640MB limit seems to have been an arbitrary one, purely because 1Ghz RAM sticks were hard to come by when the machine was launched.

1Ghz+ won't come cheap though... In the UK at least, a 1Ghz RAM stick costs �800.