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bherskovitz · 08:52 AM

edited

bherskovitz · 08:53 AM

edited

Esquare · Jul 2, 2003, 04:54 PM

Originally posted by bherskovitz:
Let me preface this by saying that I have owned Apple computers for over 10 years and have been a loyal (sometimes fanatical) owner.

[...]

If I had been a regular retail customer or even worse a 'switcher', I would have been gone by now, returned the computer, said goodbye to Apple and started over with a Dell or other Windows machine.

You have every right to complain. But frankly, sentences like these make me sick. Words like 'boyscout' and 'crybaby' come to mind.

Don't get me wrong, you have my sympathy, but such cliches really make letters like that look pathetic.

DekuDekuplex · 05:01 PM

Originally posted by bherskovitz:
[stuff deleted]

A mistake I made was ordering this Powerbook build-to-order, a stock machine could have been replaced easier. I also made the mistake of ordering it online; the return and repair options are very limited. Of course, being an employee order, I had no choice. If I had been a regular retail customer or even worse a 'switcher', I would have been gone by now, returned the computer, said goodbye to Apple and started over with a Dell or other Windows machine.

Brian

Sorry to hear about your terrible experience. You're not the first one; problems with AppleCare in returning/replacing defective Macs have been discussed many times on this forum.

Just because you received a discount as an employee is no excuse for a defective Mac.

One suggested strategy has been to take photographs of the item before sending it back, and then have a Genius Bar employee call an AppleCare supervisor to make sure that your problem is given special attention. It also reportedly can help to insert a note with the Mac when returning it documenting the condition of the Mac, and stressing that you have evidence of the exact appearance of the exterior of the Mac before returning it.

Also, reportedly AppleCare repair service is better if you have purchased an AppleCare plan.

Another strategy that has been suggested is to use an alternative repair shop, such as TekServe. However, depending on the nature of the problem, the repair shop may just send the Mac back to AppleCare.

Personally, I would try a good repair shop such as TekServe first, and then discuss options with them before sending the Mac back to AppleCare.

DekuDekuplex

urrl5201 · Jul 2, 2003, 05:55 PM

I am not much for hindsight strategies. If it was me I would serously consider disputing the charge with my credit card company. I have done it before, though not with Apple, and it works. I did not have to continue calling the company that screwed me over, eventually they called me and finally we came to an agreement that would satisfy me. That's the reason I USE a credit card; there is always a last resort, to be used if absolutely all else fails. If your 12" does not come back looking and working right you may want to consider this option. Actually I feel you are in a very good position having ordered directly from Apple; they will be the only ones to get funds cut off from the credit card company.

The Placid Casual · Jul 2, 2003, 06:42 PM

Originally posted by Esquare:
You have every right to complain. But frankly, sentences like these make me sick. Words like 'boyscout' and 'crybaby' come to mind.

Don't get me wrong, you have my sympathy, but such cliches really make letters like that look pathetic.

Without wishing to be picky, I don't see any cliches here, just statements of fact...

The Placid Casual · Jul 2, 2003, 06:53 PM

Originally posted by bherskovitz:
Sorry for the long post, but I need to share my experience with others.

*snip*

continued...

I feel for you. There is no way that this situation should have happened if the machine had had been checked correctly. Either an engineer is lying when they said that it had been checked, or engineers are sleeping on the job...

Either way, it is just not good enough for a company such as Apple.

On the bright side, you are lucky you had the machine replaced at all!... In the UK, Apple are fanatical about giving you nothing they don't have to when it come to repairs...

For example;

A few years ago, I sent in an iBook 500 for a simple repair. They kept it for 11 weeks, and then trashed the casing. If I hadn't kicked up a fuss, I would not so much as had an apology.

Last month I finally snapped on a faulty MDD Powermac after it came back from it's fourth repair with the same fault! Apple gave up and called it a 'feature'! Would Apple change it, even though it was company policy to? Nope, they did nothing as they would have lost money. In the end the retailer sorted it, and only then because they found out I was a lawyer and was well aware of my rights...

I love Apple, but on occasion, especially with Applecare, they can leave a nasty taste in the mouth...

At least you got it sorted in the end though... I hope the new machine arrives in good order, and does your business proud, despite they delay!

Peace,

Marc

urrl5201 · 10:42 PM

Reading the post by TBC, I must agree. You are fortunate that Apple is at least trying to remedy your problem, especially by replacing your Powerbook. Hope your new PB has no flaws. Have patience. I did. I had to send my old 15" in 5 consecutive times before it came back right. As long as there is evidence that they trying to remedy the situation you should bear with them. It is obviously apparent they have a few bad repair techs, well, maybe quite a few to weed out, but in my case they eventually got the job done.

http://homepage.mac.com/bhardy3/PhotoAlbum34.html

Paco500 · Jul 3, 2003, 01:25 AM

While I agree your situation sucks, it looks like Apple is going against policy and replacing your machine instead of just repairing it. This is positive. You most likely will me w/o a machine no longer than if they had repaired it again. Look on the bright side.

I am an IT Director for an almost total Dell company (my PowerBook and an Xserve are the only two non-Dell machines) and this crap happens with Dell too. Switching to windows in no way eliminates customer service issues.

Esquare · Jul 3, 2003, 03:12 AM

Originally posted by The Placid Casual:
Without wishing to be picky, I don't see any cliches here, just statements of fact...

Look again then. They are blatant!

"I'm a loyal Apple customer for XX years blah blah blah..."

and

"blah blah blah...better buy a Dell"

are the two most common sentences used in e-mails like these. Stay away from them if you want to make an impact.

Mac Zealot · Jul 3, 2003, 03:21 AM

Yeah welcome to the club.

At least you ARE getting a replacement. Once repairs push me into the 3 weeks - 5 weeks of downtime I get really angry and apple ends up replacing it....

And they better apologize too

Dougmc · Jul 3, 2003, 09:08 AM

Originally posted by Esquare:
Look again then. They are blatant!

"I'm a loyal Apple customer for XX years blah blah blah..."

and

"blah blah blah...better buy a Dell"

are the two most common sentences used in e-mails like these. Stay away from them if you want to make an impact.

In my opinion, these statements needed to be made because they are what you're calling clich�s. The redundancy of such statements can be used to emphasize that yet another loyal customer is not getting acceptable customer service.

However, I am also of the opinion that it shouldn't matter if you've been a Mac user for 20 minutes or 20 years, the service you recieve should always be kind and fair.

Had Applecare employees expressed a sincere sense of remorse for shipping this faulty machine, and had they made a sincere effort to make it right as soon as possible, their customer base would likely be much more forgiving to their errors. It's hard to be angry with someone that admits that they were wrong and expresses an interest in making things right.

Unfortunately, quality customer service is fading away with time in our country.

Esquare · Jul 3, 2003, 01:03 PM

Originally posted by Dougmc:
However, I am also of the opinion that it shouldn't matter if you've been a Mac user for 20 minutes or 20 years, the service you recieve should always be kind and fair.

That is exactly my point!

Unfortunately, quality customer service is fading away with time in our country.

Consider yourself lucky! Apple Customer Service in Europe has always been awful... The last time I got in touch with them - that must be something like 8 or 9 years ago - the guy on the phone actually tried to convince me that I'd be better of with a PC! Go figure.

DekuDekuplex · Jul 3, 2003, 01:11 PM

Originally posted by Dougmc:
[stuff deleted]

Had Applecare employees expressed a sincere sense of remorse for shipping this faulty machine, and had they made a sincere effort to make it right as soon as possible, their customer base would likely be much more forgiving to their errors. It's hard to be angry with someone that admits that they were wrong and expresses an interest in making things right.

Unfortunately, quality customer service is fading away with time in our country.

The real problem, reportedly, is that Steve Jobs reduced the budget for customer service by about one-third within either three or six months (I can't remember which right now) of returning to Apple.

He really needs both to restore the customer service budget (especially since Apple is doing a little better financially that when he first took over) and to weed out the bad technicians immediately.

Personally, after reading many reports of defective service from AppleCare, I now feel very hesitant to send in my Mac to there should anything go wrong. I would much rather use TekServe first, and then use AppleCare only as a last resort.

DekuDekuplex

The Placid Casual · Jul 3, 2003, 01:20 PM

I have been led to believe that in the UK, the situation is that 'Apple UK' is not actually Apple Computers Inc. They are merely the authorised distributor...

This if true, would explain a lot...

They feel that they should not have to take a loss, even if they are to blame... They would rather shaft resellers than face any problems.

They also feel that the buck doesn't stop with them, so they are very very loathe to make an independent decisions...

From a customer services point of view, neither situation is ideal...

Peace,

Marc

chipchen · Jul 3, 2003, 04:06 PM

first of all, Apple has already gone above and beyond in fixing your issues with your computer. the average customer cannot simply "decide" they want a new computer after one has gone in for a few repairs (just 2!). had you been a regular customer, or still an employee, you probably would have to continue sending in your powerbook.

second, they're doing what they can, and your own store has been really nice to you, but now you go online, betray your friends at the store even, and complain about the company you used to work for. not only that, you reveal internal information that you shouldn't have.

third, you jumped the gun when booking appointments without having the powerbook in hand. if aren't certain, you aren't certain. this might not even be apple's fault, but you've already assigned blame. and ESPECIALLY since it's a BTO being replaced, and coming from overseas, you can't expect it to be in your hands the next day, or even within a few days for certain.

fourth, you of all people should know that most powerbooks shipped are perfect and there are a few that come back with problems. this happens, unfortunately, but isn't woth gripping to the world about. besides, as you should know, they're already doing more for you than they would any other person. AND, you're getting a big discount.

five... drink a cold one.. relax... computers aren't more important than your health, cause at this point, I'm concerned your head might blow off...

DekuDekuplex · 05:27 PM

Originally posted by chipchen:
first of all, Apple has already gone above and beyond in fixing your issues with your computer. the average customer cannot simply "decide" they want a new computer after one has gone in for a few repairs (just 2!). had you been a regular customer, or still an employee, you probably would have to continue sending in your powerbook.

Excuse me, but it doesn't seem right that any Apple customer should be expected to keep sending in a premium-level PowerBook to AppleCare again and again. People purchase Macintoshes because they are supposed to be premium-quality products.

"Just 2?" That seems at least one too many to me (some [not me] would say two too many).

I've also read many customer postings on the Apple Japan Discussions Web site, and some users there have complained that the quality of some Macs have deteriorated over the years. They have said that Apple doesn't seem to care so much now about ensuring that the products are not defective before shipping, which (reportedly) they used to do.

Bherskovitz is far from alone in this kind of complaint.

Also, as a new Mac-user, it would seem that Bherskovitz should be treated with more courtesy. Bherskovitz didn't start out by flaming other Mac-users here.

second, they're doing what they can, and your own store has been really nice to you, but now you go online, betray your friends at the store even, and complain about the company you used to work for. not only that, you reveal internal information that you shouldn't have.

Excuse me, but how does explaining a problem with a Mac count as "betraying [Bherskovitz's] friends at the store?" Further, this user is not trying to "complain about the company [Bherskovitz] used to work for"; this user is complaining about the treatment given so far with this specific problem. By your logic, anybody who complained about any problem with any former employer would be trying to "complain about the company [he or she] used to work for." There is a BIG difference between betraying friends and complaining about a company, and asking for help from fellow Mac-users about a specific Mac-related problem. That's what newsgroups are for.

Further, just what "internal information" did Bherskovitz reveal that this user "shouldn't have?" Just who was supposed to have said that Bherskovitz wasn't supposed to have revealed what information? If your issue is about Bherskovitz's employee discount, then that shouldn't seem to count as "internal information," since most companies (mine included) routinely give discounts to company employees. How exactly do you suggest that Bherskovitz could have described the problem without revealing "internal information?"

[stuff deleted]
fourth, you of all people should know that most powerbooks shipped are perfect and there are a few that come back with problems. this happens, unfortunately, but isn't woth gripping to the world about.

Really?! Strange, considering that, especially with the 12.1-inch PowerBook, many users complained that the products shipped were defective. One user on the Apple Japan Discussions Web site complained that he had checked out several LittleAl's at different computer shops, and that every single one of them had been defective.

Such reports were actually the main reason that I chose BigAl over LittleAl.

besides, as you should know, they're already doing more for you than they would any other person. AND, you're getting a big discount.

First of all, the discount doesn't really matter with the issue of a defective product. A discount is simply no excuse to ship a customer, former employee or not, a defective product. Macs are supposed to be Macs, and Macs are supposed to be premium products to begin with. That's the reason that people buy Macs; that's certainly the reason that I bought my Mac.

I can't see why an employee discount is a reason repeatedly to return a defective product to the user, either. An employee discount is supposed to be a benefit that comes with working for a particular company; it's one of the reasons for choosing to work for that particular company. It's not an excuse for defective merchandise or defective service. It's not the same thing as a special discount given to a particular customer for merchandise that the customer knows is defective when first purchasing the product!

Second, they're not "doing more for [him] than they would for any other person." I've personally read about many other customers who've received replacement Macs, usually after defective products were returned to customers repeatedly. This is actually fairly common (if you regularly read the newsgroups, Mr. "Senior Member" chipchen). Defective Macs shouldn't commonly be repeatedly returned to Apple customers. Unfortunately, it actually seems to happen quite often.

five... drink a cold one.. relax... computers aren't more important than your health, cause at this point, I'm concerned your head might blow off...

That's not a very nice comment to make to a Mac-user frustrated with defective service. Bherskovitz, I apologize on chipchen's behalf.

DekuDekuplex

The Placid Casual · Jul 3, 2003, 06:15 PM

Originally posted by DekuDekuplex:
Excuse me, but it doesn't seem right that any Apple customer should be expected to keep sending in a premium-level PowerBook to AppleCare again and again. People purchase Macintoshes because they are supposed to be premium-quality products.

*snip*

That's not a very nice comment to make to a Mac-user frustrated with defective service. Bherskovitz, I apologize on chipchen's behalf.

DekuDekuplex

Well said. I agree with every point you make.

scottiB · Jul 3, 2003, 07:32 PM

chipchen is dead right in points 1, 3, and 4.

bherskovitz, I trust you weren't the salesperson at the Troy Store who sold my father an AirPort card and base station for his iMac/333.

Go the the Berkley Front, have a beer and relax. Your situation's been rectified in under 30 days. I had a 9-month odyssey in trying to get a constantly freezing and kp-ing DP/800 repaired, and I didn't feel the need to publicize it.

Mac Zealot · Jul 3, 2003, 09:15 PM

lol scotti them dp/800's are the devil ^_^

Heh what more can I say. I think the guy is lucky he got it replaced, sad **** happened, and all..

While it sucks that it's taken time at least it's happening