[Simon]

Originally posted by JLL:
They have - it's the login screen with fast user switching enabled.

Good lord, that is not the problem buddy.

The problem is that I can't get back to the login screen when the screen-saver of another user is blocking any input w/o the user's passwd being entered.

[JLL]

Originally posted by Simon:
So, if I understand you correctly, you are suggesting that after some time the session gets backgrounded and Panther returns to the login screen. Fine. What if I want this to happen earlier than the deafult time. Let's say I want to take over the computer, but the other user's screen-saver is still running. Do I have to sit in front of my $3000 G5 and wait until the time is up for the session to be backgrounded?

Ya see. That's why we need the option to force-background a session at any time. We need more flexibility w/o confusing settings, prefs, check-boxes etc.

There is a way to 'force-background' a session in Panther with fast user switching enabled - use the fast user switching menu.

Your asking for something that's already there.

[Simon]

Originally posted by JLL:
There is a way to 'force-background' a session in Panther with fast user switching enabled - use the fast user switching menu.

Your asking for something that's already there.

Wow, great. The menu is there even when people activate password protection for the screen-saver?

So you mean, the screen saver password prompt comes and at the same time I have access to the user switching menu in the menu bar?

Are you kidding?

[JLL]

Originally posted by Simon:


Good lord, that is not the problem buddy.

The problem is that I can't get back to the login screen when the screen-saver of another user is blocking any input w/o the user's passwd being entered.

That's why I'm saying that using the login screen as a kind of password enabled screen saver is a better way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

In Jaguar you can let the screensaver activate itself after a period of inactivity or you can start the screensaver manually.

In Panther DP (where a password enabled screensaver isn't an option in the screen saver prefpane anymore though still available elsewhere), you can go to the login screen manually without logging out of the session - all that's missing is a feature that goes to the login screen after a specified time of inactivity.

[JLL]

Originally posted by Simon:
Wow, great. The menu is there even when people activate password protection for the screen-saver?

No, and I don't think that a password protected screensaver will be available in Panther - just a hunch.

The option is gone in Panther DP and you have to enable it elsewhere.

[JLL]

Originally posted by Simon:
It logs back in? What's that supposed to mean? You can't login twice to one single session. Are you trying to tell me, the login panel screen switches to the screen showing the session of the user that just tried to log in? My question was basically if the OS prevents the same user form having two sessions running at the same time.

And that was what I tried to answer: it returns to the session if you're logged in already.

Btw. multiple logins aren't uncommon - it can easily happen in the shell.

[Simon]

Originally posted by JLL:
No, and I don't think that a password protected screensaver will be available in Panther - just a hunch.

The option is gone in Panther DP and you have to enable it elsewhere.

It can be activated from the keychain menu item and I don't see why Apple should cancel this feature. People know and like screen-savers. Why should Apple confront them with more abstract things like login screens? Maybe the preliminarily greyed out the button in the screen-saver prefs because of some problems. After all we are talking about DP1.

What about adding a button to the screen-saver password prompt that would take you back to the login screen and background the current session? You could still have the option to switch to the login screen after a period of inactivity. These two options could be used side by side.

[Simon]

Originally posted by JLL:
Btw. multiple logins aren't uncommon - it can easily happen in the shell.

In shells of course. But now all of sudden also in grandma's GUI session? Imagine the confusion when she can't do anything anymore because all her docs claim to be write-protected because she had already opened them in another session.

The idea sounds terrible from a UI point of view. It's necessary for freaks in a shell, but it would be a support nightmare if you let every shmoe do it. People wouldn't get it.

Ah darn, need to get some sleep. I'll get back to this argument later, ok.

God natt!

[JLL]

Originally posted by Simon:
It can be activated from the keychain menu item and I don't see why Apple should cancel this feature.

Because you could just as easily choose Go to login screen.

And a time activated screen saver with password protection isn't available as far as I remember (I don't have Panther here).

Originally posted by Simon:
People know and like screen-savers. Why should Apple confront them with more abstract things like login screens?

Um, when using a Mac with multiple users you already know the login screen.

Perhaps people like screen saver, but you usually need to protect your Mac when you're not sitting by it - making it hard to actually look at the screen saver anyway

Originally posted by Simon:
What about adding a button to the screen-saver password prompt that would take you back to the login screen and background the current session?

Good idea.

[Webscreamer]

Originally posted by Sharky K.:
is the annoying scrolling with scroll button on mouse fixed with the update?

If I recall, I think was only a problem in Safari. But from what I see this was fixed with the final version of Safari...

[Targon]

The new user switching sounds cool from what i have read so far, BUT...... what i would like to know is it possible that the OS now saves the state of your session if u log out?

I want to have all my apps open in a saved untouched state if i have to log out then back in. As an example I need to do this often when i change a file type to be associated with a different app, the icons don't change until after logging out then back in.

[Targon]

In the Finder and all other apps, the current program completely HALTS (like Pre OS 9.x) when u click and hold the scroll bar.

Eg: copy a big@ssed file from disk to disk in the Finder, now click and hold the scroll bar and maneuver it in a list or column view setting for the applications window. Observe the file copy progress bar in the Finder stop copying.

Has this situation changed?

[wreising]

Originally posted by JLL:
No, and I don't think that a password protected screensaver will be available in Panther - just a hunch.

The option is gone in Panther DP and you have to enable it elsewhere.

No, as I said before that is not true. I can't figure out how I did it, but my DP1 screen-saver prompts for a password.

The only question is if Apple will allow this password window (which incidentally asks for both a screen name and a password - not just the password as Jaguar does) will also act as a fast-user-switch login window.

Bill

[Targon]

Creating a new folder in the JagW!RE Finder-the folder name in the text entry field is first selected for user input but then suddenly becomes unselected just before the user is about to type, so then the user has to manually select the text in the entry field for data entry. This was a lng standing bug in OS X for some time then around 10.2.x it was fixed, now in 10.2.6 its broke again. Has this been fixed again the Panther?

Another strange and odd behaviour in the Finder i notice sporadically- When i 2 x click a folder, or a hard disk icon, sometimes when the window opens it appears to be 'Not Selected'; that is the window then needs to be clicked on to perform some action with it. Anyone seen this before in Jag if so is it fixed in Panther?

Another minor irritation-Say u have a list view window open, of say your web downloads folder. This window contains many files, 100+ if for instance the scroll bar is at the top displaying file names starting with 'A' and i hit for example the 'T' key, the first item in the window thats starts with 'T' is selected and displayed in the window, this is cool.... however, BUT the scroll bar DOESNT jump to the location it should be if u manually dragged the scroll bar down t display the first 'T' entitled file name. Instead the scroll bar remains at the top of the window in this example, when u click the scroll bar to move it a tiny bit the 'T' named file no longer is visible an the windows view jumps to the top displaying 'A' file names again. The behavior does not change regardless of which scroll bar setting is selected in the 'General-System Preferences'

I consider this a bug in Jag, anyone notice it fixed in Panther?

[Targon]

Does Painther provide any ability to resize the System Font, Applications Font and File Views Font ??

On the G3 FireWire PB the display res is fixed at 1024x768, i find it very difficult to deal with the overly large UI in JagW!RE. Most widgets including fonts are way too big and seem to give the impression my display is set to 800x600. It is not only the Fonts i have the issue with its also the size of everything else like standard buttons, menu's etc.

In the Finder we can resize icons in increments of 4 units. If OS X and Quartz is so god frikin Wonderful and ADVANCED, then why doesn't or can't it provide a slider to resize the entire User Interface????????? That means the ability to re-scale all windows title bars, buttons, menus, etc etc in realtime just like the realtime resizing of Finder icons?

Does Panther allow us the ability of this nature? Im sure its much more advanced than Jag...just as my credit limit will need to be advanced to pay for it

[Simon]

Originally posted by Targon:
Does Painther provide any ability to resize the System Font, Applications Font and File Views Font ??

[snip]

Does Panther allow us the ability of this nature? Im sure its much more advanced than Jag...just as my credit limit will need to be advanced to pay for it

Well, actually Apple isn't forcing you into buying Panther.

If you think it's too expensive, don't buy it.

You can then come back and whine on the forums what a greedy company Apple is...

[Sharky K.]

Originally posted by Webscreamer:
If I recall, I think was only a problem in Safari. But from what I see this was fixed with the final version of Safari...

there are also other few applications that does this.

[Bi@tch]

Originally posted by Targon:
In the Finder and all other apps, the current program completely HALTS (like Pre OS 9.x) when u click and hold the scroll bar.

Eg: copy a big@ssed file from disk to disk in the Finder, now click and hold the scroll bar and maneuver it in a list or column view setting for the applications window. Observe the file copy progress bar in the Finder stop copying.

Has this situation changed?

That's just for carbon apps...but yes, it's annoying.

[- - e r i k - -]

Wow. You have certainly been busy since I left you yesterday.

Here's a few on-topic things to concider:

There is no password-protected screensaver in Panther.

Locking the screen either by the keychain or by password-protecting wakeup prompts for any user name and password. It will then go back to the session that started the password protection.

If this is a problem for you, you can set it to log you out after a set time of inactivity OR you can select Login Window from the Fast User Switching menu, which will keep your prosesses running while enabling others to login.

To answer abnother question, user sessions are not "saved", ie. all processes are halted and started again the next time you log in. If you log out, it's the same behaviour as always: all applications are shut down and you log out of your session. You can go to the Login Window via the Fast User Switching Menu, and your apps will keep running, they are not halted.

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally posted by Targon:
Creating a new folder in the JagW!RE Finder-the folder name in the text entry field is first selected for user input but then suddenly becomes unselected just before the user is about to type, so then the user has to manually select the text in the entry field for data entry. This was a lng standing bug in OS X for some time then around 10.2.x it was fixed, now in 10.2.6 its broke again. Has this been fixed again the Panther?

This only happens in list view, but no as of DP1 this has not been fixed.

Another strange and odd behaviour in the Finder i notice sporadically- When i 2 x click a folder, or a hard disk icon, sometimes when the window opens it appears to be 'Not Selected'; that is the window then needs to be clicked on to perform some action with it. Anyone seen this before in Jag if so is it fixed in Panther?

I have not seen this behavior at all, but then again I never open new windows for folders at all.

Another minor irritation-Say u have a list view window open, of say your web downloads folder. This window contains many files, 100+ if for instance the scroll bar is at the top displaying file names starting with 'A' and i hit for example the 'T' key, the first item in the window thats starts with 'T' is selected and displayed in the window, this is cool.... however, BUT the scroll bar DOESNT jump to the location it should be if u manually dragged the scroll bar down t display the first 'T' entitled file name. Instead the scroll bar remains at the top of the window in this example, when u click the scroll bar to move it a tiny bit the 'T' named file no longer is visible an the windows view jumps to the top displaying 'A' file names again. The behavior does not change regardless of which scroll bar setting is selected in the 'General-System Preferences'

This is fixed in Panther DP1

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally posted by Targon:
In the Finder we can resize icons in increments of 4 units. If OS X and Quartz is so god frikin Wonderful and ADVANCED, then why doesn't or can't it provide a slider to resize the entire User Interface????????? That means the ability to re-scale all windows title bars, buttons, menus, etc etc in realtime just like the realtime resizing of Finder icons?

Well you can, but you can only zoom in, not out

No, this is not in Panther, nor do I expect it to be. Yes, the user interface in OS X is larger than OS 9, you can either get used to it or buy a monitor which allows a higher resolution.

[Simon]

Erik, could you check if this problem was fixed?

With Jag if I start a new login session and open a Finder window (default for me is column view) the window opens with the right size, but the column spacing is much to narrow. If I close this window and open a second one the new window will not only have the right size, but also the right column width I set.

It always screws up the first Finder window. The bug has been around since I can remember.

Has Panther fixed it?

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally posted by Targon:
In the Finder and all other apps, the current program completely HALTS (like Pre OS 9.x) when u click and hold the scroll bar.

Eg: copy a big@ssed file from disk to disk in the Finder, now click and hold the scroll bar and maneuver it in a list or column view setting for the applications window. Observe the file copy progress bar in the Finder stop copying.

Has this situation changed?

The copying no longer halts, but the progress bar stops updating. I guess they just didn't assign finder enough threads.

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally posted by Simon:
Erik, could you check if this problem was fixed?

With Jag if I start a new login session and open a Finder window (default for me is column view) the window opens with the right size, but the column spacing is much to narrow. If I close this window and open a second one the new window will not only have the right size, but also the right column width I set.

It always screws up the first Finder window. The bug has been around since I can remember.

Has Panther fixed it?

I wouldn't bet on it. However this has not been a problem for me since I stopped closing windows. When logging in finder will always remember my window settings.

You can also try double clicking the column resizer to make it automaticly resize to the widest item. This feature rocks

[JLL]

Originally posted by wreising:
No, as I said before that is not true. I can't figure out how I did it, but my DP1 screen-saver prompts for a password.

Try and read the second sentence you quoted:

"The option is gone in Panther DP [in sysprefs] and you have to enable it elsewhere"

[JLL]

Originally posted by Targon:
In the Finder and all other apps, the current program completely HALTS (like Pre OS 9.x) when u click and hold the scroll bar.

Eg: copy a big@ssed file from disk to disk in the Finder, now click and hold the scroll bar and maneuver it in a list or column view setting for the applications window. Observe the file copy progress bar in the Finder stop copying.

Has this situation changed?

The Finder never stopped copying, but the screen update halts.

[MikeFo]

Originally posted by Bi@tch:
That's just for carbon apps...but yes, it's annoying.

no it's not just for Carbon apps, try to do the same in safari. Click the scrollbar and hold it, everything inside the window stops. Very, very, very, very annoying !!!!!!!

[SYN]

this is due to the fact that the carbon ui toolbox is not reentrant... I don't know if they'll ever make it reentrant.

[pat++]

Originally posted by MikeFo:
no it's not just for Carbon apps, try to do the same in safari. Click the scrollbar and hold it, everything inside the window stops. Very, very, very, very annoying !!!!!!!

That is really annoying. It seems that the window server locks the window as soon as the user clicks on the scrollbar. I've reported this many times to apple, and it's still not fixed. Send feedback to Apple. This definitely needs to be fixed for Panther. This issue has been around for too long. It gives the feeling that the application is not multi-threaded... because all redraws stops. This is particularly anoying when you start to scroll in Safari, and the page is not completely loaded yet, you don't get the page loaded until you release the mouse button

[iFix Rene]

Simon, I also find it annoying that the very
first Finder window doesnt remember the
columnwidth one specified and the second
and onwards do

unfortunately its the same in Panther

[Catfish_Man]

Originally posted by - - e r i k - -:
Well you can, but you can only zoom in, not out

No, this is not in Panther, nor do I expect it to be. Yes, the user interface in OS X is larger than OS 9, you can either get used to it or buy a monitor which allows a higher resolution.

Some of us would like to be able to zoom in without having to scroll around the screen a ton (yes, I know that would involve losing some space. I want to be able to run at really high DPIs while still being able to see things). That said, I don't think we'll get it for a while. It would basically require a completely vector graphics UI, or really huge bitmaps to scale down (either of which would be slow).

[Amorya]

Originally posted by JLL:
Because you could just as easily choose Go to login screen.

That would do a different thing.

At college, we use Windows' 'Lock Screen' button when we get up from a computer (to get a printout or whatever). That means that no-one else can log in until we release the lock. It's useful because I don't want anyone else to use the computer that I'm using.

Going to the login screen would be stupid in a situation like that. A password protected screensaver is exactly what I need.

Amorya

[Simon]

Originally posted by iFix Rene:
Simon, I also find it annoying that the very
first Finder window doesnt remember the
columnwidth one specified and the second
and onwards do

unfortunately its the same in Panther

Ah shucks. Too bad.

I hope you devs give Apple some negative feedback on this. It seems to be a completely stupid bug. As if someone forgot to write a single line of code to restore the saved settings. And I believe it's been around since PB.

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally posted by Amorya:
That would do a different thing.

At college, we use Windows' 'Lock Screen' button when we get up from a computer (to get a printout or whatever). That means that no-one else can log in until we release the lock. It's useful because I don't want anyone else to use the computer that I'm using.

Going to the login screen would be stupid in a situation like that. A password protected screensaver is exactly what I need.

Amorya

But you already have the Lock Screen feature in Jaguar!

Open Applications/Utilities/Keychain Access and select Show status in menu bar from the View menu. Voila! Lock screen!

This is still here in Panther, only now you can invoke it at wakeup as well.

[Targon]

In Finder,

1)Do key stroke 'Command+F', the Find window appears.
2)Type into the text field, hit 'Search' button an find a file until the 'Search Results' window opens.
3)Now do a keystroke 'Command+J' the View Options Palette for the 'Search Results' Window opens.
4)Change the 'Text Size' from 12 Pt to 10 Pt.
5)Close the 'View Options' Palette, Close the 'Search Results' window and the 'Find' Window.
6)Perform Steps 1 and 2 again.

Does the 'Search Results' Window retain the Size 10 Text size in the list as previously set before?

[gorgonzola]

Originally posted by iFix Rene:
Simon, I also find it annoying that the very
first Finder window doesnt remember the
columnwidth one specified and the second
and onwards do

unfortunately its the same in Panther

Yeah, I simply can't understand why this is so hard to fix or why it's taking so long. It's so irritating. It's been around for as long as I can remember.

[- - e r i k - -]

Good lord. That other Panther thread is now useless for someone looking for actual information about Panther, so I dug up my own thread again.

Having been through 7B21 and now 7B28 I'm starting to see some improvements and some setbacks.

There is still no Bluetooth support in these builds, in fact Adress Book crashes upon opening. The control panel is there, but I can't turn BT on, and it says that no Bluetooth can be found.

Almost all FCP4 problems have been fixed, text labeling and GUI works as of 7B21 and as of 7B28 I can finally scrub through the movie without errors and likewise export a movie. I still don't get audio out on my DV-camera though, leaving me to first export video and transfer it to my desktop for saving to tape. (Note to self: How about going through iMovie, that should work, shouldn't it?). Oh, and for some reason as of build 7B21 I could no longer do Reat Time (I went back to 7A202 to check, and sure enough it was there). Weird little bug that one.

FCP and all it's components got updated today through Software Update! That was a nice touch, Apple updating it's major apps through SW. Even though I was reminded of why one never should upgrade mid-project as the Color Correction I had done needed to be redone (syntax error in FX Script ).

Hope we can keep metadiscussion out of this topic and stick to Panther-related items ONLY.

[Hash]

Do NOT dig this thread and let it die. Its usability has been exhausted. You of course may bump it again and again, but I see no meaning in that. The old panther builds are not relevant anymore and other threads contain more uptodate info.

[JLL]

Originally posted by Hash:
You of course may bump it again and again, but I see no meaning in that.

And yet YOU bumped it two days after the last post.

[Hash]

and so you did today.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by Hash:
and so you did today.

Five hours - two days.

See a difference?

[thePurpleGiant]

Originally posted by Hash:
and so you did today.

Hmm, I'd better not bump this thread or someone might get annoyed at me.

[thePurpleGiant]

Oops! Looks like I did

[Simon]

I see the big blackout should be extended to other parts of the globe as well...

[JLL]

Originally posted by Hash:
and so you did today.

But I'm not complaining about the thread being bumped.

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally posted by Hash:
Do NOT dig this thread and let it die. Its usability has been exhausted. You of course may bump it again and again, but I see no meaning in that. The old panther builds are not relevant anymore and other threads contain more uptodate info.

Of course the thread will die if no one replies. Stupid of you to do so.

The thread is still valid and contains plenty of relevant info. And since I've upgraded to the latest build the information on the bottom of the thread is still fresh.

I dug up the thread because all the other threads were polluted by idiots yapping on about morals and NDA.

[Hash]

Well, i guess, your copy of panther is obtained legally and you did not violate your NDA, right? Or is this everything "fresh and updated" info about latest pirated builds as well?

[Hash]

Originally posted by - - e r i k - -:

I dug up the thread because all the other threads were polluted by idiots yapping on about morals and NDA.

Yes, now I see. You needed to dig up old thread based on pirated builds where no one asked about dubious origins of builds so you could continue talking about pirated builds without being reminded about such useless things as morals and NDA, right?

[MasonMcD]

Anyway, to add to the discussion, visually handicapped and maybe even graphic artists may be pleased that you can set the display to grayscale, with a sliding contrast.

Under Universal Access pref pane.

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally posted by Hash:
Yes, now I see. You needed to dig up old thread based on pirated builds where no one asked about dubious origins of builds so you could continue talking about pirated builds without being reminded about such useless things as morals and NDA, right?

Yup. They are useless.

Oh, and to stay on topic: FCP4 is highly unstable in 7B28, it crashes about every five to ten minutes. However, it did fix the critical bugs mentioned above. And with it launching so fast, I'm still more productive than FCP3 on my G4 400 under Jaguar, that is if I remember to save often